-Rando-
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Indiana politicians decide that creationism is science
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Who better than a bunch of idiot redneck legislators to tell science teachers what to teach?
Thanks Republicans!
http://www.ibj.com/senate-panel-oks-creationism-teaching-bill/PARAMS/article/32182
An Indiana Senate panel has approved a bill that would allow creationism to be taught in Indiana's public schools.
The Times of Munster reported that the Republican-controlled Senate Education Committee voted 8-2 Wednesday to send the legislation to the full Senate despite pleas from scientists and religious leaders to keep religion out of science classrooms.
The bill allows schools to authorize "the teaching of various theories concerning the origin of life" and specifically mentions "creation science" as one such theory. Creationism is the belief that the Earth and its creatures were created by a deity.
Purdue University professor of chemistry John Staver told the panel evolution is the only theory of life's origins that relies on scientific investigations. He says creationism "is unquestionably a statement of a specific religion."
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Gaevren
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Aren't these the same ones who tried to legislate pi = 3? Or maybe it was 4...either way...
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-Rando-
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Gaevren posted:
Aren't these the same ones who tried to legislate pi = 3? Or maybe it was 4...either way...
Obviously pi = 22/7. I have declared it to be so.
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rabbitslayer
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seems they need a refresher on the constitution or even the first amendment
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Reapist
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Well, perhaps it is science............................political science!
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Dark_EternalFF
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It should be taught in schools, right alongside the scientific method. As an example of what NOT to do.
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Anebriated
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here's how i would teach creationism:
ok kids here is a belief that i am forced to cover. it's useless belief that will lead to no further insight about the world, and generate no new predictions. you can't ever know if this belief is true or not. you'll never test it and you will never find any evidence. they call the belief creationism and only people who fail high school science believe in it.
no more about silly beliefs, back to science.
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_Gimpzilla_
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you're the diet coke of evil, just one calorie, not "evil" enough.
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Arc_DT
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It's neither science nor a theory, *even if it were undeniably true*, because it's not testable (science) and not falsifiable (a theory). If it were true, it would be an axiom.
Since it's not true, it's merely cow chips.
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Kanga_Roo
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"God did it" is not good science no matter how much you fancy it up.
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ikkoikki
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I'm a member of the Church of Carlin, we believe that the world was created by Joe Pesci.
This is a serious religion and we demand respect!
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TheSixthSeal
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Dark_EternalFF posted:
It should be taught in schools, right alongside the scientific method. As an example of what NOT to do.
WTF is wrong with the scientific method?
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Ah-Schoo
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But cow chips exist, therefore Arc_DT is wrong. Vote DOCTOR Ron Paul.
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Brother_Tempus
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this example in Indiana is just one of many reasons why government should not be involved or run an education system
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mightbe
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and then off these kids go to college and have to be reformed
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Ah-Schoo
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Brother_Tempus posted:
this example in Indiana is just one of many reasons why government should not be involved or run an education system
So vote for Big Government Ron Paul to keep things the same as always, just like all the decades of his career as a leech on the taxpayer, accomplishing nothing.
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regulator_cracka
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The trifecta of trolling posts! Politics, religion, and ignorant banter!
ALL IN ONE THREAD!
I r impressed!
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If you think my opinion is idiotic, re-read yours.
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suntzukali2
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http://richarddawkins.net/articles/3567
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suntzukali2
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regulator_cracka posted:
The trifecta of trolling posts! Politics, religion, and ignorant banter!
ALL IN ONE THREAD!
I r impressed!
You are dealing with some master troll types here.
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regulator_cracka
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suntzukali2 posted:
regulator_cracka posted:
The trifecta of trolling posts! Politics, religion, and ignorant banter!
ALL IN ONE THREAD!
I r impressed!
You are dealing with some master troll types here.
I just thought I had seen everything. 
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If you think my opinion is idiotic, re-read yours.
Dont worry I will give my opinion anyways.
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CSM-Fido
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Anebriated posted:
here's how i would teach creationism:
ok kids here is a belief that i am forced to cover. it's useless belief that will lead to no further insight about the world, and generate no new predictions. you can't ever know if this belief is true or not. you'll never test it and you will never find any evidence. they call the belief creationism and only people who fail high school science believe in it.
no more about silly beliefs, back to science.
I failed HS science at a catholic school, and i still think its BS 
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Arc_DT
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Anebriated posted:
here's how i would teach creationism:
ok kids here is a belief that i am forced to cover. it's useless belief that will lead to no further insight about the world, and generate no new predictions. you can't ever know if this belief is true or not. you'll never test it and you will never find any evidence. they call the belief creationism and only people who fail high school science believe in it.
no more about silly beliefs, back to science.
Looks like pretty much the opposite of Mr. Garrison and his retard fish having buttsex, which produced us.
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Anebriated
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mkaay~
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Bork_the_orc
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Your anger is great and brings sadness to my heart. I pray that merciful Allah guides you to a more peaceful path. 
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Kordirn
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Bork_the_orc posted:
Your anger is great and brings sadness to my heart. I pray that merciful Allah guides you to a more peaceful path.
Allahu akbar!
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notmforce2k
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And we wonder why countries like ****ing TURKEY are ahead of us in scientific research.
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Bork_the_orc
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Kordirn posted:
Bork_the_orc posted:
Your anger is great and brings sadness to my heart. I pray that merciful Allah guides you to a more peaceful path.
Allahu akbar!
Alhamdulillah 
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Kordirn
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Bork_the_orc posted:
Kordirn posted:
Bork_the_orc posted:
Your anger is great and brings sadness to my heart. I pray that merciful Allah guides you to a more peaceful path.
Allahu akbar!
Alhamdulillah
La ilaha illa Allah.
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Bork_the_orc
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It is good to know that another on this board follows the Prophet (P.B.U.H.).
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notmforce2k
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Brother_Tempus posted:
this example in Indiana is just one of many reasons why government should not be involved or run an education system
Such as? I'm curious to see what the "many reasons" are. Please, go for it.
Schools are one of the things people most support being publicly funded, or AT LEAST having the option of it regardless of where they decide to send their children. Privatized schooling should be an option, sure, but certainly not the only one. That's just silly.
And "for profit" schooling is just a joke. I won't get started on that.
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Sgian_Dubh
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notmforce2k posted:
And "for profit" schooling is just a joke. I won't get started on that.
A very not funny joke.
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suntzukali2
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Sgian_Dubh posted:
notmforce2k posted:
And "for profit" schooling is just a joke. I won't get started on that.
A very not funny joke.
but still a joke none the less.
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Bump. I know he was on earlier, maybe he'll see this instead of running away again.
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Arc_DT
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Good luck with that.
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Uccello
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-Rando- posted:
Who better than a bunch of idiot redneck legislators to tell science teachers what to teach?
Thanks Republicans!
http://www.ibj.com/senate-panel-oks-creationism-teaching-bill/PARAMS/article/32182
An Indiana Senate panel has approved a bill that would allow creationism to be taught in Indiana's public schools.
The Times of Munster reported that the Republican-controlled Senate Education Committee voted 8-2 Wednesday to send the legislation to the full Senate despite pleas from scientists and religious leaders to keep religion out of science classrooms.
The bill allows schools to authorize "the teaching of various theories concerning the origin of life" and specifically mentions "creation science" as one such theory. Creationism is the belief that the Earth and its creatures were created by a deity.
Purdue University professor of chemistry John Staver told the panel evolution is the only theory of life's origins that relies on scientific investigations. He says creationism "is unquestionably a statement of a specific religion."
Wow the level of ignorance, inability to read and understand the constitution as well as just blind religion in the above decision is truly scary. I had a difficult time understanding why this decision would even be made but then I found it....... "Republican-controlled Senate Education Committee voted 8-2". Bet there are 2 non repubs on that panel or an equally ignorant democrat or libertarian.
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Chogram
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Just to play devils advocate...
It says "allow" it to be taught.
Why should we ban anything from being taught?
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Ah-Schoo
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Chogram posted:
Just to play devils advocate...
It says "allow" it to be taught.
Why should we ban anything from being taught?
The science of man-boy love...
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Chogram posted:
Just to play devils advocate...
It says "allow" it to be taught.
Why should we ban anything from being taught?
To allow it to be taught as science in a publicly funded institution is ridiculous. Not funding something is not equal to banning it. If people want to teach their kids that "God did it" is science then that's their deal. But there is no reason for the US taxpayers to under-right it.
Why religious folks would want to turn religious instruction over to public schools is beyond me. Spiritual upbringing is the right and responsibility of the parent, not the State.
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Arc_DT
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Chogram posted:
Why should we ban anything from being taught?
This is not the first world, nor is it the first universe. There have been and will be many more worlds and universes than there are drops of water in the holy river Ganges. The universes are made by Lord Brahma the Creator, maintained by Lord Vishnu the Preserver and destroyed by Lord Shiva. Since the universes must be destroyed before they can be recreated, Lord Shiva is called the Destroyer and Re-creator. These three gods are all forms of Supreme One and part of the Supreme One. The Supreme One is behind and beyond all.
After each old universe is destroyed nothing is left but a vast ocean. Floating on this ocean, resting on the great snake Ananta, is Lord Vishnu. Some say that a lotus flower springs from his navel and from this comes Lord Brahma. And it is from Lord Brahma that all creation comes.
How dies Lord Brahma create? Some tell of how he grows lonely and splits himself in two to create male and female. Then he becomes one again and human beings are created. In the same way he creates all the other living things, from the great animals to the tiniest insects. Others say that everything comes from different parts of Lord Brahma's body. All the different animals and all the people come from his mouth, arms, thighs and feet. Everything comes from one - Lord Brahma, who is part of the Supreme One - so everything is part of the Supreme One. For this universe, this world and this Lord Brahma, like all those before and all those to come, will be destroyed by Lord Shiva.
How long is the life of a universe? Its length is beyond imagination. One day to Lord Brahma is longer than four thousand million of the years that we know. Every night when Lord Brahma sleeps the world is destroyed. Every morning when he awakes it is created again. When the Lord Brahma of this universe has lived a lifetime of such days the universe is completely destroyed by Lord Shiva.
Everything disappears into the Supreme One. For an unimaginable period of time chaos and water alone exist. Then once again Lord Vishnu appears, floating on the vast ocean. From Lord Vishnu comes forth Lord Brahma of the new universe and the cycle continues for ever.
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Chogram
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Arc_DT posted:
Chogram posted:
Why should we ban anything from being taught?
This is not the first world, nor is it the first universe. There have been and will be many more worlds and universes than there are drops of water in the holy river Ganges. The universes are made by Lord Brahma the Creator, maintained by Lord Vishnu the Preserver and destroyed by Lord Shiva. Since the universes must be destroyed before they can be recreated, Lord Shiva is called the Destroyer and Re-creator. These three gods are all forms of Supreme One and part of the Supreme One. The Supreme One is behind and beyond all.
After each old universe is destroyed nothing is left but a vast ocean. Floating on this ocean, resting on the great snake Ananta, is Lord Vishnu. Some say that a lotus flower springs from his navel and from this comes Lord Brahma. And it is from Lord Brahma that all creation comes.
How dies Lord Brahma create? Some tell of how he grows lonely and splits himself in two to create male and female. Then he becomes one again and human beings are created. In the same way he creates all the other living things, from the great animals to the tiniest insects. Others say that everything comes from different parts of Lord Brahma's body. All the different animals and all the people come from his mouth, arms, thighs and feet. Everything comes from one - Lord Brahma, who is part of the Supreme One - so everything is part of the Supreme One. For this universe, this world and this Lord Brahma, like all those before and all those to come, will be destroyed by Lord Shiva.
How long is the life of a universe? Its length is beyond imagination. One day to Lord Brahma is longer than four thousand million of the years that we know. Every night when Lord Brahma sleeps the world is destroyed. Every morning when he awakes it is created again. When the Lord Brahma of this universe has lived a lifetime of such days the universe is completely destroyed by Lord Shiva.
Everything disappears into the Supreme One. For an unimaginable period of time chaos and water alone exist. Then once again Lord Vishnu appears, floating on the vast ocean. From Lord Vishnu comes forth Lord Brahma of the new universe and the cycle continues for ever.
Why not?
Perhaps if kids learn more about different religions and what they believe in, instead of simply listening to the media who only talks about extremists, there won't be so much hatred and ignorance about it from adults.
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Arc_DT
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Indiana politicians decide that creationism is science
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Chogram posted:
Why should we ban anything from being taught?
O, Vâsetthâ, there is a season, at vast intervals in the lapse of time, when this world is dissolved; and upon the world's dissolution, the inhabitants are mostly brought together in the heaven of the Radiant, and there they dwell for a long, long period, mind-made, feed[ing] on joy, self-resplendent, traversing the sky, and abiding in goodness.
Again, there is a season, at vast intervals in the lapse of time, when this world is re-evolved; and upon the world's evolution, people disappear from the host of the Radiant and come down hither. And they are mind-made, feeders on joy, self-resplendent, traversing the sky, and abiding in goodness. [And so] do they dwell for a long, long period.
Now at that season there is gloom and darkness universally: moon and sun are known not; stars and constellations are not known; nor night and day, nor month and fortnight, nor seasons of the year. Women and men are known not, but people say: "Sentient beings only are considered."
Now for those beings there arises, after a vast interval in the lapse of time, a savory earth everywhere upon the water. Even as the tree of paradise on high is to a self-restrained one who is reaching Nirvâna, such does it appear. It was endowed with color, scent, and savor like unto ghee and butter: such was its color. And even as a little honey undefiled, such was its taste. Then some luxurious person saying, "Oh! What can this be?" tasted with his finger the savory earth, and as soon as he had done so, craving therefore became clothed and entered in. Others also, following the example of that being, tasted the savory earth with a finger. When they had done so, craving became clothed and entered in.
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Arc_DT
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Chogram posted:
Why should we ban anything from being taught?
Several parents won a lawsuit against a Pennsylvania school district in 2005 that had added the controversial theory of "intelligent design" to its curriculum. Unlike the theory of evolution which is taught at most schools as a fact-based science, "intelligent design" -- as argued by the plaintiffs -- was nothing more than a philosophy predicated on the Judeo-Christian belief that the logical sequences found in nature are not random happenings or surprising mutations, but deftly managed events created by a greater omniscient and omnipresent intelligence with a specific plan. In short, the work of God. A federal judge thought otherwise.
But therein lies the rub: Which god? When the founding fathers established the Constitution of the United States, they chose to include the separation of church and state. This was to ensure that the state-sanctioned religious persecutions that plagued much of Europe during the 16th century would not despoil the young, yet grand experiment in democracy that was to become this Republic.
Scientific research has come a long way since Charles Darwin first posited the concept of "natural selection." In the intervening years, humanity has learned much about how we became the dominant species on the planet, how the Earth and the solar system were formed and the ever-changing development of the Universe. Over that time, how we understand the theory of evolution has also changed.
Scientists now think that there is an intrinsic logic to our reality, that there are absolutes, laws of nature. Much remains a mystery, and as one question is answered, many others arise. The question that faced Pennsylvania's Dover School District was whether or not the imposition of one creation belief on a multi-ethnic, secular student body is in keeping with the law that prohibits the creation of a state religion. If they allow one belief system to be taught, surely they must also teach others?
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Ah-Schoo
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Chogram posted:
Arc_DT posted:
Chogram posted:
Why should we ban anything from being taught?
<snip>
Why not?
Perhaps if kids learn more about different religions and what they believe in, instead of simply listening to the media who only talks about extremists, there won't be so much hatred and ignorance about it from adults.
that's a fine idea. But it's not science. It's also not math or geography.
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Arc_DT
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Chogram posted:
Why should we ban anything from being taught?
The religion of Islam is often thought of as beginning with Muhammad, who was born in Mecca in 5770 CE. Forty years later the word of God was revealed to him by the angel Gabriel, and this revelation was the first of many which were collected and came to constitute the Qur'an, the Muslim holy book. But Muslims believe that Muhammad was the last in a line of prophets and that the message given to him was the final one. Thus they do not see him as the founder of the religion, but believe that Islam has its origin in the very creation of man.
In the time before time, God was. And when God wants to create something, all he needs to say is "Be", and it becomes. So it was that God created the world and the heavens. He made all the creatures, which walk, swim. Crawl and fly on the face of the earth. He made the angels, and the sun, moon and the stars to dwell in the universe. And consider, as the Qur'an says, how God poured down the rain in torrents, and broke up the soil to bring forth the corm, the grapes and other vegetation; the olive and the palm, the fruit trees and the grass.
Then it was that God ordered the angels to go to the earth, and to bring seven handfuls of soil, all of different colours, from which he could model man. God took the seven kinds of earth and moulded them into a model of a man. He breathed life and power into it, and it immediately sprang to life. And this first man was called Adam. God took Adam to live in Paradise. In Paradise, God created Eve, the first woman, from out of Adam's side. God taught Adam the names of all the creatures, and then commanded the angel to bow down before Adam. But Iblis, one amongst the angels, refused to do this, and thus began to disobey God's will.
God place the couple in a beautiful garden in Paradise, telling them that they could eat whatever they wanted except the fruit of on forbidden tree, But the evil one tempted them to disobey God, and eat the fruit. When God knew that Adam and Eve had disobeyed him, he cast them out of Paradise and sent them to earth. But God is merciful. The earth was created to give food, drink and shelter to the human race. The sun, moon and stars give light. It is a good world, where everything has been created to serve people. And people, the Qur'an teaches, should serve God and obey his will. For those who submit to the will of God will be saved, and taken to live for ever in Paradise.
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Chogram
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Didn't they make copy/pasting huge paragraphs bannable at one point or did they fix that "bug"?
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Chogram
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Ah-Schoo posted:
Chogram posted:
Arc_DT posted:
[quote=Chogram]Why should we ban anything from being taught?
<snip>
Why not?
Perhaps if kids learn more about different religions and what they believe in, instead of simply listening to the media who only talks about extremists, there won't be so much hatred and ignorance about it from adults.
that's a fine idea. But it's not science. It's also not math or geography.[/quote]
They make time for studying black history, and my local school does hispanic history.
I'm sure that they could find a week or two for religious history.
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Arc_DT
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Chogram posted:
Why should we ban anything from being taught?
(a) Having decided to give Adam a helpmeet lest he should be alone of his kind, God put him into a deep sleep, removed one of his ribs, formed it into a woman, and closed up the wound, Adam awoke and said: 'This being shall be named "Woman", because she has been taken out o f man. A man and a woman shall be one flesh.' The title he gave her was Eve, 'the Mother of All Living''. [1]
(b) Some say that God created man and woman in His own image on the Sixth Day, giving them charge over the world; [2] but that Eve did not yet exist. Now, God had set Adam to name every beast, bird and other living thing. When they passed before him in pairs, male and female, Adam-being already like a twenty-year-old man-felt jealous of their loves, and though he tried coupling with each female in turn, found no satisfaction in the act. He therefore cried: 'Every creature but I has a proper matel', and prayed God would remedy this injustice. [3]
(c) God then formed Lilith, the first woman, just as He had formed Adam, except that He used filth and sediment instead of pure dust. From Adam's union with this demoness, and with another like her named Naamah, Tubal Cain's sister, sprang Asmodeus and innumerable demons that still plague mankind. Many generations later, Lilith and Naamah came to Solomon's judgement seat, disguised as harlots of Jerusalem'. [4]
(d) Adam and Lilith never found peace together; for when he wished to lie with her, she took offence at the recumbent posture he demanded. 'Why must I lie beneath you?' she asked. 'I also was made from dust, and am therefore your equal.' Because Adam tried to compel her obedience by force, Lilith, in a rage, uttered the magic name of God, rose into the air and left him.
Adam complained to God: 'I have been deserted by my helpmeet' God at once sent the angels Senoy, Sansenoy and Semangelof to fetch Lilith back. They found her beside the Red Sea, a region abounding in lascivious demons, to whom she bore lilim at the rate of more than one hundred a day. 'Return to Adam without delay,' the angels said, `or we will drown you!' Lilith asked: `How can I return to Adam and live like an honest housewife, after my stay beside the Red Sea?? 'It will be death to refuse!' they answered. `How can I die,' Lilith asked again, `when God has ordered me to take charge of all newborn children: boys up to the eighth day of life, that of circumcision; girls up to the twentieth day. None the less, if ever I see your three names or likenesses displayed in an amulet above a newborn child, I promise to spare it.' To this they agreed; but God punished Lilith by making one hundred of her demon children perish daily; [5] and if she could not destroy a human infant, because of the angelic amulet, she would spitefully turn against her own. [6]
(e) Some say that Lilith ruled as queen in Zmargad, and again in Sheba; and was the demoness who destroyed job's sons. [7] Yet she escaped the curse of death which overtook Adam, since they had parted long before the Fall. Lilith and Naamah not only strangle infants but also seduce dreaming men, any one of whom, sleeping alone, may become their victim. [8]
(f) Undismayed by His failure to give Adam a suitable helpmeet, God tried again, and let him watch while he built up a woman's anatomy: using bones, tissues, muscles, blood and glandular secretions, then covering the whole with skin and adding tufts of hair in places. The sight caused Adam such disgust that even when this woman, the First Eve, stood there in her full beauty, he felt an invincible repugnance. God knew that He had failed once more, and took the First Eve away. Where she went, nobody knows for certain. [9]
(g) God tried a third time, and acted more circumspectly. Having taken a rib from Adam's side in his sleep, He formed it into a woman; then plaited her hair and adorned her, like a bride, with twenty-four pieces of jewellery, before waking him. Adam was entranced. [10]
(h) Some say that God created Eve not from Adam's rib, but from a tail ending in a sting which had been part of his body. God cut this off, and the stump-now a useless coccyx-is still carried by Adam's descendants. [11]
(i) Others say that God's original thought had been to create two human beings, male and female; but instead He designed a single one with a male face looking forward, and a female face looking back. Again He changed His mind, removed Adam's backward-looking face, and built a woman's body for it. [12]
(j) Still others hold that Adam was originally created as an androgyne of male and female bodies joined back to back. Since this posture made locomotion difficult, and conversation awkward, God divided the androgyne and gave each half a new rear. These separate beings He placed in Eden, forbidding them to couple. [13]
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Arc_DT
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Chogram posted:
They make time for studying black history, and my local school does hispanic history.
I'm sure that they could find a week or two for religious history.
By all means, teach everything I've posted. But not in science class. Creationism is not science.
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Ah-Schoo
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Chogram posted:
Ah-Schoo posted:
Chogram posted:
Why not?
Perhaps if kids learn more about different religions and what they believe in, instead of simply listening to the media who only talks about extremists, there won't be so much hatred and ignorance about it from adults.
that's a fine idea. But it's not science. It's also not math or geography.
They make time for studying black history, and my local school does hispanic history.
I'm sure that they could find a week or two for religious history.
I think they should.
Good luck though. Teaching anything about one religion is going to offend the zealots from all the other religions. Teaching it objectively will appear to the devoted of any of them as dismissive of their beliefs.
The whackadoodles seem to have some power too, so at best you're going to have strife and nothing will get accomplished.
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Religious history is a good idea. I hope those pushing their view can live with it.
http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/news/story/2011-12-13/All-American-Muslim-boycott/51885502/1
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"Fable should be taught as fable, myth as myth, and miracles as poetic fancies. To teach superstitions as truth is horrifying. The mind of a child accepts them and only through great pain, perhaps tragedy, can the child be relieved of them. Men will fight for superstition as quickly as for the living truth -- even more so, since a superstition is intangible, you can't get at it to refute it, but truth is a point of view, as so is changeable."
Hypatia of Alexandria (370 - 415 BC)
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