Sansfear
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Romney pays a higher effective tax rate than 97%+ of Americans
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People keep pointing at the 15% capital gains number and trying to compare them directly against the income tax brackets.
The real comparison should be actual income tax paid as a percentage of your AGI.
According to IRS statistics, the effective tax rate does not pass 15% until you get into the $200K+ income bracket.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/09in11si.xls
Those earning 100-200K pay effective 11.9% of their AGI in taxes.
Those earning 75-100K pay effective 8.5% and it goes down from there.
Those making 200K or less make up 97% of filers.
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Scarne
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Romney pays a higher effective tax rate than 97%+ of Americans
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Don't be dumb. 
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stevenmeadowsin
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Romney pays a higher effective tax rate than 97%+ of Americans
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The whole debate is misleading. You can't compare differing tax rates and act like they are the same.
I might as well be pissed that Mitt Romney only paid 6.5% taxes on the groceries he bought here in Florida because I'm in the 25% income tax bracket.
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Akza
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Romney pays a higher effective tax rate than 97%+ of Americans
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Eh?
I do not make nearly 200k and last year i paid 19.5% effective tax rate.
you guys can fark yourselves. romney makes a whole lot more than i do. i even sold some stocks i had big losses on to reduce my tax liability.
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Bonzoboy1
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It isn't hard since 47% of Americans don't pay any federal income taxes and are just riding the coattails of others.
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reesescups
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Romney pays a higher effective tax rate than 97%+ of Americans
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Sansfear posted:
People keep pointing at the 15% capital gains number and trying to compare them directly against the income tax brackets.
The real comparison should be actual income tax paid as a percentage of your AGI.
According to IRS statistics, the effective tax rate does not pass 15% until you get into the $200K+ income bracket.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/09in11si.xls
Those earning 100-200K pay effective 11.9% of their AGI in taxes.
Those earning 75-100K pay effective 8.5% and it goes down from there.
Those making 200K or less make up 97% of filers.
Just out of curiosity is this just trolling material or do you actually buy into this type of spin?
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reesescups
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Romney pays a higher effective tax rate than 97%+ of Americans
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Bonzoboy1 posted:
It isn't hard since 47% of Americans don't pay any federal income taxes and are just riding the coattails of others.
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Ptilk
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Romney pays a higher effective tax rate than 97%+ of Americans
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It used to amaze me that people believe such crap and more than that, extend what is actually claimed to include the crap that the authors of such partial truth gambits wants them to believe based upon it.
Then I started posting here.
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theredkay1
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Romney pays a higher effective tax rate than 97%+ of Americans
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I give the OP credit for complaining about other unnamed people abusing numbers...and then 2 lines later he tries to pull the same trick. Well done. 
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IMHO
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Romney pays a higher effective tax rate than 97%+ of Americans
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Bonzoboy1 posted:
It isn't hard since 47% of Americans don't pay any federal income taxes and are just riding the coattails of others.
If we kicked those free loaders that are in prison out on the street they would have to get a job and that would really cut into that 47%!!!
 Newt 2012 WoOt WoOt WoOt
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Sin_of_Onin
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Actually our effective tax rates vary greatly by town but if you add them all up you would have a much better picture of just how progressive taxation in the US is.
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eodoll
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I pay around 50% in taxes
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IMHO
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Romney pays a higher effective tax rate than 97%+ of Americans
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I pay 30 to 35%.... I need to get a different CPA. 
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Yukishiro1
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Romney pays a higher effective tax rate than 97%+ of Americans
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Scarne posted:
Don't be dumb.
Haha no kidding.
This is like a Sweeney post or something it's so bad.
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Sansfear
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Subject:
Romney pays a higher effective tax rate than 97%+ of Americans
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I should have said 87%, not 97%. Here is how I calculated it (I'm not quoting anyone, I was just looking at the IRS data, feel free to check it yourself).
Open up the Excel file in the link. This is the 2009 data from the IRS.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/09in11si.xls
Look at column S.
This is the total income tax paid as a percent of taxable income (do we agree that this is the effective tax rate?) This does not show the effective tax rate of individual filers, but of the group as a whole. Individuals within each group will vary widely in their effective rate.
The effective rate hovers around 10% for all taxpayer groups up to 100K.
<5K 11.9%
5-10K 10.2%
10-15K 6.8%
15-20K 6.6%
20-25K 8.7%
25-30K 9.7%
30-40K 10.0%
40-50K 10.6%
50-75K 11.6%
75-100K 12.3%
ROMNEY 13.9%
100-200K 16.3%
Now look at column C. This is the percent of total returns for each income group.
If you sum the total % of returns for all taxpayers up to 100K, you get 87.6%.
You can try and argue semantics, but those are the numbers.
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Yukishiro1
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Romney pays a higher effective tax rate than 97%+ of Americans
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Doesn't include payroll tax, therefore useless. When you include payroll tax Romney pays about the same % as average Americans, despite making about 250x as much as them.
If your great argument is that Romney earns 250x the average salary and pays the same % in federal income taxes, go you I guess?
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theredkay1
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Romney pays a higher effective tax rate than 97%+ of Americans
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Why are we leaving out SS and Medicare taxes? Sales taxes? Property taxes?
What is the point of arbitrarily choosing some taxes and ignoring others?
Why not arbitrarily choose income sources too? If we just compare income earned from janitorial services, Romney is a pauper compared to all the janitors in the US....and even though Romney's income is $0, he has a tax rate around 14%. Whats the deal with that?
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Kjarhall
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So he pays more than 87% of Americans and makes more than... ~98% of Americans? And this is supposed to defend the argument? Might want to rethink that one.
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Scarne
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Romney pays a higher effective tax rate than 97%+ of Americans
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Kjarhall posted:
So he pays more than 87% of Americans and makes more than... ~98% of Americans?
Romney is in something like the top 0.001%. So he makes more than 99.999% of Americans.
He needs to work on getting into the six sigma group!
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ZigmundZag
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Romney pays a higher effective tax rate than 97%+ of Americans
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Scarne posted:
He needs to work on getting into the six sigma group!
Wouldn't that be why he's running for President?
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Groucho48
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Romney pays a higher effective tax rate than 97%+ of Americans
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There's an effective tax rate and a marginal tax rate. Using an effective tax rate tends to narrow the difference between high incomes and low incomes, as the 15000 or so in standard deductions and stuff that everyone gets is a much bigger % of a low income person's income than that of a high income person's.
Using a marginal tax rate, which is the rate your next dollar of income will be taxed at, tends to focus on the disparities in rates. A family earning the average income of around $50000 will pay maybe 12% of that in taxes but on each new dollar of income will be paying 15%. This goes up to 25% when they hit the next bracket. Meanwhile, Romney will pay the same 15% even if his income doubles or triples.
It's also virtually certain that Romney payed no taxes on his first $50000 in income, as the rich have a much broader array of deductions available to them.
So, another way of looking at it is that a family of 4, making 50000 a year paid maybe an income tax rate of 10-12% on that, and a payroll tax rate of 12.4% on that, while Romney payed nothing on his first 50000.
In other words, it's more complicated than either side's talking points make it seem.
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Bonzoboy1
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Did Romney actually do anything wrong or are people just venting on him?
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Friarspam
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Romney pays a higher effective tax rate than 97%+ of Americans
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Bonzoboy1 posted:
Did Romney actually do anything wrong or are people just venting on him?
He has more than others so he MUST be a demon!
/go go socialism!
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B_Shinkicker
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Romney pays a higher effective tax rate than 97%+ of Americans
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Bonzoboy1 posted:
Did Romney actually do anything wrong or are people just venting on him?
Bain Capital lobbied against raising the Capital Gains Tax and helped kill a bill that proposed it.
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Thugoneous
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Romney pays a higher effective tax rate than 97%+ of Americans
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B_Shinkicker posted:
Bonzoboy1 posted:
Did Romney actually do anything wrong or are people just venting on him?
Bain Capital lobbied against raising the Capital Gains Tax and helped kill a bill that proposed it.
Did our President just appoint a former Bain employee to OMB?
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reesescups
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Romney pays a higher effective tax rate than 97%+ of Americans
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Groucho48 posted:
So, another way of looking at it is that a family of 4, making 50000 a year paid maybe an income tax rate of 10-12% on that, and a payroll tax rate of 12.4% on that, while Romney payed nothing on his first 50000.
Partisan BS aside...
This is what needs to be addressed.
/But how?
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Bonzoboy1
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Romney pays a higher effective tax rate than 97%+ of Americans
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B_Shinkicker posted:
Bonzoboy1 posted:
Did Romney actually do anything wrong or are people just venting on him?
Bain Capital lobbied against raising the Capital Gains Tax and helped kill a bill that proposed it.
That was in 2007 and Romney left in 1999.
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reesescups
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Romney pays a higher effective tax rate than 97%+ of Americans
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Bonzoboy1 posted:
B_Shinkicker posted:
Bonzoboy1 posted:
Did Romney actually do anything wrong or are people just venting on him?
Bain Capital lobbied against raising the Capital Gains Tax and helped kill a bill that proposed it.
That was in 2007 and Romney left in 1999.
Had he dealt with the issue in '98 or 99, we wouldn't still be addressing this problem.
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Z-Elder
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Romney pays a higher effective tax rate than 97%+ of Americans
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reesescups posted:
Groucho48 posted:
So, another way of looking at it is that a family of 4, making 50000 a year paid maybe an income tax rate of 10-12% on that, and a payroll tax rate of 12.4% on that, while Romney payed nothing on his first 50000.
Partisan BS aside...
This is what needs to be addressed.
/But how?
Don't try to come here with any of this moderate fix crap!
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steelsixsix
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reesescups posted:
Groucho48 posted:
So, another way of looking at it is that a family of 4, making 50000 a year paid maybe an income tax rate of 10-12% on that, and a payroll tax rate of 12.4% on that, while Romney payed nothing on his first 50000.
Partisan BS aside...
This is what needs to be addressed.
/But how?
Can't be right. Standard reduction is like 10-11k and each exemption is like 4k, so that is 27k not taxed. Tax on 23k cant be more than 3k. Social security is 7.5% not 12.4%. Where are the tax gurus?
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reesescups
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steelsixsix posted:
Where are the tax gurus?
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stevenmeadowsin
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It's these types of capital gains arguments that make conservatives look incredibly stupid. There are legit arguments for a low capital gains tax, but acting like Romney is taking on the chin paying more than 97% of americans is stupid.
Hey asshole...he makes more than damn near everyone else. He should pay more and I'm a Romney supporter!!
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steelsixsix
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Isn't his plan for people like him to pay 25%?
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stevenmeadowsin
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A lot of plans have lower tax rates but reduce/eliminate the deductions. You'll have to research as there are a lot of "plans" out there.
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Groucho48
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steelsixsix posted:
reesescups posted:
Groucho48 posted:
So, another way of looking at it is that a family of 4, making 50000 a year paid maybe an income tax rate of 10-12% on that, and a payroll tax rate of 12.4% on that, while Romney payed nothing on his first 50000.
Partisan BS aside...
This is what needs to be addressed.
/But how?
Can't be right. Standard reduction is like 10-11k and each exemption is like 4k, so that is 27k not taxed. Tax on 23k cant be more than 3k. Social security is 7.5% not 12.4%. Where are the tax gurus?
You're right. Teach me to just try to remember numbers. Family of 4 would have a standard deduction and exemptions would be about 27000. Leaving about 23000 to be taxed. 8500 of that would be taxed at 10%, the rest at 15%. So, $850. + 2025 = 2875 in income tax on income of 50000. A little under 6%. Plus payroll taxes, of course.
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Kjarhall
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Bonzoboy1 posted:
Did Romney actually do anything wrong or are people just venting on him?
No, he's just being used as an example for several things: how farked up our tax system is, one reason for the 99% thing, why people are complaining about unfair treatment between income classes, etc.
If i were him, i'd probably do the same. That doesn't mean it should be happening.
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Bonzoboy1
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Romney pays a higher effective tax rate than 97%+ of Americans
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Kjarhall posted:
Bonzoboy1 posted:
Did Romney actually do anything wrong or are people just venting on him?
No, he's just being used as an example for several things: how farked up our tax system is, one reason for the 99% thing, why people are complaining about unfair treatment between income classes, etc.
If i were him, i'd probably do the same. That doesn't mean it should be happening.
What gets me is that Romney was never in a position to change the tax code, many of his critics on both sides were.
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Kjarhall
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Romney pays a higher effective tax rate than 97%+ of Americans
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Bonzoboy1 posted:
Kjarhall posted:
Bonzoboy1 posted:
Did Romney actually do anything wrong or are people just venting on him?
No, he's just being used as an example for several things: how farked up our tax system is, one reason for the 99% thing, why people are complaining about unfair treatment between income classes, etc.
If i were him, i'd probably do the same. That doesn't mean it should be happening.
What gets me is that Romney was never in a position to change the tax code, many of his critics on both sides were.
He was in a position to change the state tax code...
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*http://vnboards.ign.com/outpost/b22180/115147923/r115151508/
hah! true story tho i'm a woman an i even love boobs..how can you not??- HallowEve
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Tych2
Title: Obama Appointed Outpost Czar
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Subject:
Romney pays a higher effective tax rate than 97%+ of Americans
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Kjarhall posted:
He was in a position to change the state tax code...
While he was the state's head, he was never in position to change the state's tax code. Make no mistake that the dems run MA and we've had a string of criminal speakers.
Charles Flaherty Democratic 1991 – April 9, 1996 27th Middlesex District Resigned - pleaded guilty to tax evasion
Thomas Finneran Democratic April 9, 1996 – September 28, 2004 12th Suffolk District Resigned due to allegations of perjury and obstruction of justice
Salvatore DiMasi Democratic September 28, 2004 – January 27, 2009 3rd Suffolk District Resigned - convicted of conspiracy, honest services fraud, and extortion
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Kjarhall
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Subject:
Romney pays a higher effective tax rate than 97%+ of Americans
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Tych2 posted:
Kjarhall posted:
He was in a position to change the state tax code...
While he was the state's head, he was never in position to change the state's tax code. Make no mistake that the dems run MA and we've had a string of criminal speakers.
Charles Flaherty Democratic 1991 – April 9, 1996 27th Middlesex District Resigned - pleaded guilty to tax evasion
Thomas Finneran Democratic April 9, 1996 – September 28, 2004 12th Suffolk District Resigned due to allegations of perjury and obstruction of justice
Salvatore DiMasi Democratic September 28, 2004 – January 27, 2009 3rd Suffolk District Resigned - convicted of conspiracy, honest services fraud, and extortion
I'd say that being Gov. puts him in position. His being prevented or failing to do it would be another story.
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You're a crazy moron*
*http://vnboards.ign.com/outpost/b22180/115147923/r115151508/
hah! true story tho i'm a woman an i even love boobs..how can you not??- HallowEve
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Tych2
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Romney pays a higher effective tax rate than 97%+ of Americans
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heh okay
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Scarne
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Romney pays a higher effective tax rate than 97%+ of Americans
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Clearly the Massachusetts Legislature is being repressed by the overreach of the federal government, forcing its members to resort to crime.
STATES RIGHTS 4 EVA!
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E Pluribus Unum
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Tych2
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Subject:
Romney pays a higher effective tax rate than 97%+ of Americans
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You should come in from the dark side and stop support states rights. This isn't the 1700s. 
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