Abaddon_Ambrosius
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FINALLY someone is using the "D" word for Greece
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Reuters
(Reuters) - Standard & Poor's will likely downgrade Greece's ratings to "selective default" when the country concludes its debt restructuring
Makes sense.
...but that will not necessarily destroy the credibility of the European Union, an official with the ratings agency said on Tuesday.
 Uhm... yeah. But it will destroy Greece's credibility. Not that it isn't already de-facto.
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imaloon1
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FINALLY someone is using the "D" word for Greece
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That's great news!
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Koneg
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FINALLY someone is using the "D" word for Greece
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Democrats? 
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__Bonk__
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FINALLY someone is using the "D" word for Greece
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When can we bomb Greece?
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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FINALLY someone is using the "D" word for Greece
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__Bonk__ posted:
When can we bomb Greece?
MONEYBOMB GREECE!!! 
Oh wait, Germany's already doing that...
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In the immortal words of Socrates - "I drank what?"
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Testerion
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FINALLY someone is using the "D" word for Greece
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How to fix country that spends all the money you lend it to whores and warships?
EU: THROW SOME MORE MONEY AT IT!
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Huges07.1
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FINALLY someone is using the "D" word for Greece
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Europe would be better off if Hitler had won the war!
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Testerion
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FINALLY someone is using the "D" word for Greece
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Huges07.1 posted:
Europe would be better off if Hitler had won the war!
1 person running things > 27 Presidents, 27 Prime Ministers, 27 Parliaments and 27000 bureaucrats running things.
You guys think you have large government? Try being ruled by 27 large governments plus an multinational commission atop of it!
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NuEM
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FINALLY someone is using the "D" word for Greece
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Testerion posted:
How to fix country that spends all the money you lend it to whores and warships?
EU: THROW SOME MORE MONEY AT IT!
Every country shuffles money around from the more productive regions to the ones in need. Just ask our American friends here.
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Brother_Tempus
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FINALLY someone is using the "D" word for Greece
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NuEM posted:
Testerion posted:
How to fix country that spends all the money you lend it to whores and warships?
EU: THROW SOME MORE MONEY AT IT!
Every country shuffles money around from the more productive regions to the ones in need. Just ask our American friends here.
that's why the state of the economy is just as bad ad the EU. Government managed economies always value, just look at the USSR.
you can look at China which was bassist case unit they moved towards the direction of capitalism. They are still a far ways away from having something sustainable but it was a far cry from 40 years ago
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NuEM
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FINALLY someone is using the "D" word for Greece
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No, it's bad because we don't do it. 
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Bonzoboy1
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FINALLY someone is using the "D" word for Greece
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What do you mean mean they can't have the majority of the populace on the government payroll working 20 hours a week with 12 weeks of paid vacation and full retirement at 30?
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Kjarhall
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FINALLY someone is using the "D" word for Greece
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Which band was China in again?
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smellymotor
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FINALLY someone is using the "D" word for Greece
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culturally the chinese are the ultimate capitalists.
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Young and Free
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B_Shinkicker
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FINALLY someone is using the "D" word for Greece
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You mean you can't solve massive debt problems with massive debt???
UNPOSSIBLE!@!!!!
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NuEM
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FINALLY someone is using the "D" word for Greece
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Yeah austerity seems to be working really well... not!
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B_Shinkicker
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FINALLY someone is using the "D" word for Greece
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Of course Austerity doesn't work. Banks make billions of dollars in profits using outright fraud, and then the average citizen living paycheck to paycheck is expected to tighten their belt and pay for it?
Same thing is happening in America too, most people just don't know it yet.
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Rosaria
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FINALLY someone is using the "D" word for Greece
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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
__Bonk__ posted:
When can we bomb Greece?
MONEYBOMB GREECE!!!
Oh wait, Germany's already doing that...
They have been all along. More to come though, the doubling-down on stupid has commenced!
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Rosaria
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FINALLY someone is using the "D" word for Greece
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NuEM posted:
Yeah austerity seems to be working really well... not!
Austerity in Greece = no longer being able to inherit your father's pension.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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FINALLY someone is using the "D" word for Greece
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Rosaria posted:
NuEM posted:
Yeah austerity seems to be working really well... not!
Austerity in Greece = no longer being able to inherit your father's pension.
I was searching for the right level of ridicule to use earlier but the coffee hadn't kicked in yet. So I'm glad you just about nailed it with that.
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NuEM
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FINALLY someone is using the "D" word for Greece
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Rosaria posted:
NuEM posted:
Yeah austerity seems to be working really well... not!
Austerity in Greece = no longer being able to inherit your father's pension.
Oh come on. You know that's BS. Stuck on the other side?
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Manegarm
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FINALLY someone is using the "D" word for Greece
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Rosaria posted:
NuEM posted:
Yeah austerity seems to be working really well... not!
Austerity in Greece = no longer being able to inherit your father's pension.
Is that even true?
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NuEM
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Oh I'm sure you can find a case like that if you keep looking but it has nothing to do with the average guy there.
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theredkay1
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FINALLY someone is using the "D" word for Greece
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Rosaria posted:
NuEM posted:
Yeah austerity seems to be working really well... not!
Austerity in Greece = no longer being able to inherit your father's pension.
NuEM's point has been made by many people here. Large spending cuts and tax increases = Austerity. The same people always respond by pretending none of this is happening.
I guess the thinking is....Austerity is a good thing, so if something bad is happening, there must not be austerity. This kind of thinking is very common and unfortunately is usually impervious to facts.
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Szerek
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FINALLY someone is using the "D" word for Greece
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Testerion posted:
Huges07.1 posted:
Europe would be better off if Hitler had won the war!
1 person running things > 27 Presidents, 27 Prime Ministers, 27 Parliaments and 27000 bureaucrats running things.
You guys think you have large government? Try being ruled by 27 large governments plus an multinational commission atop of it!
This would be true if we were ruled by government, but we we aren't. Corporate America rules rules us. I'm not too familiar with the EU. How true is that of the member countries? Do corporations pull the strings at all, or do the people still retain a bit of power?
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Manegarm
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FINALLY someone is using the "D" word for Greece
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Szerek posted:
Testerion posted:
Huges07.1 posted:
Europe would be better off if Hitler had won the war!
1 person running things > 27 Presidents, 27 Prime Ministers, 27 Parliaments and 27000 bureaucrats running things.
You guys think you have large government? Try being ruled by 27 large governments plus an multinational commission atop of it!
This would be true if we were ruled by government, but we we aren't. Corporate America rules rules us. I'm not too familiar with the EU. How true is that of the member countries? Do corporations pull the strings at all, or do the people still retain a bit of power?
In Sweden the corporations don't pull as much sway since they do not fund the electoral process in the same way as in the US, our politicians do not need to prostitute themselves to get elected thus they represent us and not the corporations.
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Voodoo-Dahl
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FINALLY someone is using the "D" word for Greece
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theredkay1 posted:
Rosaria posted:
Austerity in Greece = no longer being able to inherit your father's pension.
NuEM's point has been made by many people here. Large spending cuts and tax increases = Austerity. The same people always respond by pretending none of this is happening.
I guess the thinking is....Austerity is a good thing, so if something bad is happening, there must not be austerity. This kind of thinking is very common and unfortunately is usually impervious to facts.
Stop! NoooOOOooOOoooo! He's going to use the goldfish again!
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Voodoo-Dahl posted:
Stop! NoooOOOooOOoooo! He's going to use the goldfish again!
No, there's room to debate what "austerity" is. I'll give even the idiotic goldfish brigade here that latitude.
The key factors involve level of public and private sector debt, is everything "government tax increases and government spending cuts", and whether other factors like cutting regulation, etc to fuel growth and drive private investment are coming into play.
Of course, all the goldfish brigade will look at is government tax, government distributed funds, 'tax breaks', and government outlays. (IE, if the government isn't controlling and funding it and picking winners/losers, it doesn't count).
Simply hiking taxes to continue funding deficit government spending and honor outrageous, fraudulently-reported, negligently-committed future government outlays & entitlement commitments isn't "austerity". Sorry.
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NuEM
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FINALLY someone is using the "D" word for Greece
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Szerek posted:
This would be true if we were ruled by government, but we we aren't. Corporate America rules rules us. I'm not too familiar with the EU. How true is that of the member countries? Do corporations pull the strings at all, or do the people still retain a bit of power?
They certainly do have too much power here too, but it manifests differently. Instead of R vs. D we get to play North vs. South.
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theredkay1
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Austerity has been commonly defined as tax increases and/or spending cuts as a response to the current recession.
Coming up with your own alternative meaning for words really makes conversation difficult. Words have meaning.
If I decide that 'government spending' means 'a plan to send iguana's to the moon' and get all bent out of shape whenever anyone claims Obama is pushing for government spending...well, it gets silly.
Greece is following the generic austerity plan that has received much acclaim on the right in Europe and the US. Its not working very well. This should influence how we react to future calls for austerity.
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