Modeeb
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Can We Go From That Which is Known to that Which is Unknown?
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If we can then what does this relationship mean?
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Fail Again. Fail Better. Samuel Beckett
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Typhis1
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Can We Go From That Which is Known to that Which is Unknown?
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Known Unknowns
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Since light travels faster than sound, People appear bright until you hear them speak. - Anonymous For any food lovers try out the site below! http://www.thehungrymouse.com/home
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Coriolus
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Can We Go From That Which is Known to that Which is Unknown?
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What movies was the from again?
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Typhis1
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Coriolus posted:
What movies was the from again?
The Boondocks on adult swim. Charlie Murphy and Samuel L Jackson are in several episodes as Gin Rummy (Rumsfeld) And Ed Wuncler III (Bush Jr.)
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Since light travels faster than sound, People appear bright until you hear them speak. - Anonymous For any food lovers try out the site below! http://www.thehungrymouse.com/home
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_Enkidu_
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Science actually does this very thing on a regular basis, Modeeb. As onlotology increases new data is discovered which calls into question earlier theories and natural laws. Good examples of this are Newtonian gravity being shredded by Eistein's space-time and the need for dark matter/energy to describe the ever increasing expansion of the universe. So our previously known states for gravity and cosmology became unknowns. We understand space-time better now, but it took decades before it was tested. We still don't even know what dark energy/matter are, those are just placeholder names for an unknown.
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Modeeb
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Can We Go From That Which is Known to that Which is Unknown?
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"The ideal or ultimate aim of philosophy and science is Truth. But, truth has no other meaning than that of the reduction of the plurality of phenomena to an essential unity-of facts to laws, of laws to principles of principles to essence or being. All search for truth postulates its existence, i.e. fundamental unity of the multiplicity of phenomena in the world. Without this unity nothing would be knowable. How could one proceed from the known to the unknown- and this is indeed the method of progress in knowledge-if the unknown had nothing to do with the known? if the unknownhad no relationship with the known and was absolutely and essentially a stranger to it?" from Letter I The Magician, in Meditations on the Tarot a Journey into Christian Hermeticism
[This was my morning meditation from my lectio ( or reading).
[In its simplest sense I am putting a lot of words to: "All is One." You may take exception to some of the words, e.g. truth, reduction, essence. But the heart is without unity, nothing is knowable.]
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"What is here is there. What is not here is nowhere." Vishvasara Tantra
"Ever tried, Ever Failed. No matter. Try Again.
Fail Again. Fail Better. Samuel Beckett
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_Enkidu_
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'Truth' really poses no problem, unless you start dwelling on absolutes, then it becomes meaningless, which makes me wonder why people do it. Relative truth is easy to justify and define. Absolute truth is impossible to justify, or even identify, because the definition can't change. So what good are absolutes?
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Modeeb
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Relativism falls on its own sword. If Absolute truth doesnt exist then this, itself, is an absolute.
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"What is here is there. What is not here is nowhere." Vishvasara Tantra
"Ever tried, Ever Failed. No matter. Try Again.
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_Enkidu_
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Relativism is all we can work with, absolutes are meaningless. This isn't to say they don't exist, but you can never accept that you found one as an absolutist. Upon finding an absolute you'd never know it. This is an unsolvable problem for an absolutists. It would mean you'd have to stop making the comparison checks required to identify an absolute, but then you'd never know for sure if it was the final 'truth.' So even if you find one, you have to continue searching forever for something else that doesn't exist believing that the absolute you found isn't the 'truth.'
However, from a relativist position you could find it and declare it the 'closest to the truth yet' and let that stand on it's own merits. This gives you functionality and a useful endpoint exemplar, where absolutists would always decry the found absolute truth as not being 'truthy' enough, when in fact it was.
This is why relativists are generally happier people. They can find something good and not regret that it isn't the best thing ever. To be happy an absolutist would have to deceive themselves in some way. How could they be happy knowing everything in their life sucks and could be so much better?
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Modeeb
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Herein lies our conundrum: Our logic is limited. Truth is simultaneously the same AND different.
I do not necessarily see a mosaic, a plurality of unrelated worlds somehow fitting together (thesis). I see how this can be perceived. Or, do I unequivocally believe an ideal system exists, a unified organism (antithesis). I see a paradox. I also believe we will synthesize the two. I use analogies. I use this method because my belief system more intuitively proceeds from a fundamental Unity. Analogy is the aleph of methods for me.
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"Ever tried, Ever Failed. No matter. Try Again.
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_Enkidu_
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Not sure you wouldn't be better served by starting with a fundamental 'nothing' instead of unity. It's much more interesting to search for whatever might be there than to make a blind guess at something that might not. The universe is a big place, there's lots to see and do, why chase ghosts when there are hot women everywhere?
[insert rak or tich picture about here]
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Modeeb
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I'm fine with starting with a fundamental Nothing. They are two sides to the same Reality coin.
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"What is here is there. What is not here is nowhere." Vishvasara Tantra
"Ever tried, Ever Failed. No matter. Try Again.
Fail Again. Fail Better. Samuel Beckett
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Z-Elder
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Can We Go From That Which is Known to that Which is Unknown?
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Mo, I am with you. I do not see how it is possible to go from the known to the unknown with any certainty. You will always bring your own bias to the search. No matter what you do the instrument that you use has it's own limiting factors.
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"The poison of our ordinary habits has killed the magic of the moment"
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they stand in the state of division and separation which by their own motion, they have made for themselves"
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_Enkidu_
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Going from the know to the unknown is demostrated all the time. The certainty you are looking for in this change is that the previous known is no longer true which is not trivial at all. The real fun comes in chasing down the unknown all over again to see what you find this time.
Not being too tightly tied to your beliefs is what seperates critical thinkers from the rabble.
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Z-Elder
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Your faith is strong but I will pass on the stumbling around after your imaginary carrots. Too neurotic for my tastes.
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"The poison of our ordinary habits has killed the magic of the moment"
"Men are not in hell because God is angry with them . . .
they stand in the state of division and separation which by their own motion, they have made for themselves"
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Modeeb
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Z I may be confusing. Every act of knowledge presupposes the basic Unity. Without Unity nothing would be knowable. Everything is related. All is One. It is because of the Oneness, we can proceed from what is known to the unknown.
We all should qualify, with the disclaimer: But that is not it. Doubt always presupposes a greater respect for the Truth. It also solves the limitations of our perceptual bias.
One issue is you and I, if we sit down will come to some agreement amount some things that can never be proved. How the hell did we come to know these things?
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"What is here is there. What is not here is nowhere." Vishvasara Tantra
"Ever tried, Ever Failed. No matter. Try Again.
Fail Again. Fail Better. Samuel Beckett
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Koneg
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Can We Go From That Which is Known to that Which is Unknown?
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_Enkidu_ posted:
Absolute truth is impossible to justify, or even identify,
Bollocks.
The Sun is hot.
Water is wet.
BT is a moron.
Gravity sucks.
Christina Hendricks is a babe.
These are all absolute truths, easy to justify and trivial to identify. They are known, and can never be unknown.
So there. 
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imaloon1
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Can We Go From That Which is Known to that Which is Unknown?
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I don't think you did know it Mo. You just accepted the other argument as "proof" of knowledge.
Faith if you will.
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Allstarslacker
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Can We Go From That Which is Known to that Which is Unknown?
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Modeeb posted:
Z I may be confusing. Every act of knowledge presupposes the basic Unity. Without Unity nothing would be knowable. Everything is related. All is One. It is because of the Oneness, we can proceed from what is known to the unknown.
We all should qualify, with the disclaimer: But that is not it. Doubt always presupposes a greater respect for the Truth. It also solves the limitations of our perceptual bias.
One issue is you and I, if we sit down will come to some agreement amount some things that can never be proved. How the hell did we come to know these things?
You found them within yourself.
The only thing you can truly know is yourself.
Truth is. You are part of it, so by learning about yourself you learn truth.
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B_Shinkicker
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Can We Go From That Which is Known to that Which is Unknown?
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I can always tell a Modeeb thread without seeing who the poster is.
We are at now, now. What you're looking at now is happening now. When will then be now? Soon. How soon?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNIwlRClHsQ
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Fist_de_Yuma
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Liberals want to go from what is proven to work to what has always failed. Is that what you mean?
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Stupid, ignorant or evil
The result is always evil but the intent is not always evil. Not that it makes much difference in the long run.
No one here is exactly as they seem. - G'Kar
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reesescups
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Can We Go From That Which is Known to that Which is Unknown?
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Modeeb posted:
Can We Go From That Which is Known to that Which is Unknown?
I gotta admit
I thought this was one thread that Fist would never, ever, in a million years click on, let alone respond to.
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eodoll
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Can We Go From That Which is Known to that Which is Unknown?
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What are you asking? Sometimes we realze there is more we dont know as we come to know new things.
And everything starts unknown.
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Z-Elder
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Modeeb posted:
Z I may be confusing. Every act of knowledge presupposes the basic Unity. Without Unity nothing would be knowable. Everything is related. All is One. It is because of the Oneness, we can proceed from what is known to the unknown.
We all should qualify, with the disclaimer: But that is not it. Doubt always presupposes a greater respect for the Truth. It also solves the limitations of our perceptual bias.
One issue is you and I, if we sit down will come to some agreement amount some things that can never be proved. How the hell did we come to know these things?
Sorry Mo that wasn't directed at you or your post.
I hear you.
I think I passed by a post from Reese linking Quantum Foam. I talked about something simple as migrating birds and electrons interacting with cells. Reductionism will end up with fields, foams, multiverses, strings, global warming!... and more of your unity anyway.
Your way is far less harmful to humanity than their neurosis!
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"The poison of our ordinary habits has killed the magic of the moment"
"Men are not in hell because God is angry with them . . .
they stand in the state of division and separation which by their own motion, they have made for themselves"
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