GrymmDAOC
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On the weighty topic of western swords
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Learn the truth you nubs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IzpFVQAkKE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5HtV4AtpCI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi5tJDkpYzI&feature=related
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Cawlin
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I think all of that sort of misinformation is from the great spoogefest around all things martial that were of Japanese origins. Basically, people never got over their childhood ninja phases.
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sweeny_comodore
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http://www.zhengwusword.com/zw/suzhuangjian.htm
these are about 2.5lb
i would have guessed european swords to be around that also
thats not very heavy...
if they are balanced properly then it feels like most of the weight is in your hand
and who cant wield a 3lb weight and do sword forms?
an interesting read
http://www.thearma.org/essays/weights.htm
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GrymmDAOC
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jian sword forms are interesting, and one handed jian looks very similar to early rapier play
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Tych2
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Swords? lol ok
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vn_nnanji
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"some maths!"
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Moe_Nox
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I am pretty sure this is all false. We have all watched 'Highlander'
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sweeny_comodore
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katanas are very light and maneuverable 2 handed swords, in comparison to a european 2 handed sword.
any sword that uses 2 hands is going to cut better than a single handed sword.
smaller blades also create less drag as they pass through their target allowing cleaner cuts with less force.
katanas are designed for big 2 handed cuts.
they are wielded differently than a normal 1 handed sword.
the europeans had different techniques for 1 handed swords than the chinese did and their sword design reflected it.
all the swords are roughly the same and highly tuned to fit their intended use.
you wouldnt do taiji or xingi with a katana or rapier. not that you couldnt do it but its not what those swords are designed for.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X254e0JZuuU
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GrymmDAOC
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Actually, Katanas weighed about 3 pounds, the same as european longswords.
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__Bonk__
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The Japanese long ago learned this truism:
Don't bring a knife to a gunfight.
 
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sweeny_comodore
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GrymmDAOC posted:
Actually, Katanas weighed about 3 pounds, the same as european longswords.
http://www.zhengwusword.com/zw/red.htm
how much does that katana weigh?
it weighs about half of the 3 pounds you say the longsword weighs.
or do you want to call them up and tell them their weights are wrong and they need to add another pound and a half?
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vn_nnanji
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You guys have size issues.
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GrymmDAOC
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sweeny_comodore posted:
http://www.zhengwusword.com/zw/red.htm
how much does that katana weigh?
it weighs about half of the 3 pounds you say the longsword weighs.
or do you want to call them up and tell them their weights are wrong and they need to add another pound and a half?
You can make replicas weigh whatever you like. Modern replicas intended for cutting are often lighter than the weapons intended for fighting.
When in doubt go to the experts. Go to SBG sword forums or Sword Forums international where you can find swordsmiths, collectors and manufacturers and ask. They will tell you that historical European and Nihonto swords did not differ much in weight.
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Moe_Nox
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'Swords'. heehee he said swords.
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NuEM
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Would you say these are any good?
http://fabri-armorum.com/english/?id=mece-1apr.php
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GrymmDAOC
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I can't speak for the quality of the swords themselves, but the versions you showed me look to be heavier than they should be. Are they stainless steel?
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Yukishiro1
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Katana are more elegant weapons but they are not very useful against armor and they break easily. European swords are probably more useful unless you have a lot of training.
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NuEM
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Well I'm a noob when it comes to these questions. On their site it says: "All our blades are made from high-grade spring steel type 14260.7". I have no idea what that means.
Further down it says: "Stainless steel is not used anywhere in the weapon and thus it becomes important to preserve and protect it against damp conditions."
Taken from here: http://fabri-armorum.com/english/?id=zbrane.php
They also have "SLIM" and "FEATHER" designs which are a bit lighter:
Fabri Armorum posted:
“SLIM†design
Because of heightened demand of lighter and better balanced swords we extend our selection by adding slimmer variant of blade design “SLIMâ€.
We tried to make this design as close to durability of the “BATTLE†variant as possible. Thickness of profile is same as the “BATTLE†variant (i.e. 3 mm), but width of the blade is from 5 to 10 millimeters less than “BATTLE†variant (this applies to the whole length of the blade). The final product is approximately 100-150 gram lighter...
More about "Slim" blade design
“FEATHER†design
Every weapon of this design has a letter F embossed next to the manufacturer symbol.
For certain types of the weapons there is possibility to make a special light-weight blades of the “FEATHER†design. These blades are approximately 200 to 300 gram lighter than the standard “BATTLE†variant. It is also the best balanced variant of the blade. But there are some restrictions for using this blade...
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GrymmDAOC
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That's good steel then. Stainless steel = crap. The slim and training versions seem closer to historical weights. Still, those are some nice looking swords, and from I hear Fabri has a good rep.
Next you should get a Kreigsmesser!
http://api.ning.com/files/JLrT6YeSaC5h3JQX8h4aNaPXPgZvhgU-iWKeKkN23PSJ77Vg46C7IUv4BJYJ4OSBH9yZJOLnpyQjuIlFz7H0KlYF2XuUdSwv/mymessers003.jpg
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sweeny_comodore
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GrymmDAOC posted:
sweeny_comodore posted:
http://www.zhengwusword.com/zw/red.htm
how much does that katana weigh?
it weighs about half of the 3 pounds you say the longsword weighs.
or do you want to call them up and tell them their weights are wrong and they need to add another pound and a half?
You can make replicas weigh whatever you like. Modern replicas intended for cutting are often lighter than the weapons intended for fighting.
When in doubt go to the experts. Go to SBG sword forums or Sword Forums international where you can find swordsmiths, collectors and manufacturers and ask. They will tell you that historical European and Nihonto swords did not differ much in weight.
zhengwu IS a swordsmith. they use traditional methods, i think.
they dont make reproductions. they make the real things.
i was directed to zhengwu by "experts".
"did not differ much" can be several ounces.
im assuming your estimate of 3lbs for a european sword is a little high.
id be suprised if most european swords weighed in over 2.5lb.
and that still doesnt change the fact that a katana is going to be a few ounces lighter and more manueverable than a eruopean sword as that is what it was designed to be.
this whole discussion is akin to arguing over shaolin, krav maga, karate, mui tai, etc being better than the rest.
the fact is, they are all slightly different, used differently and a master of any of them is going to beat a slightly less skilled practioner of any of the rest.
you really cant compare the different styles of swords or martial arts because they all work just as good and depend solely on your skill with said martial art, not the art itself.
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sweeny_comodore
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GrymmDAOC posted:
That's good steel then. Stainless steel = crap. The slim and training versions seem closer to historical weights. Still, those are some nice looking swords, and from I hear Fabri has a good rep.
Next you should get a Kreigsmesser!
http://api.ning.com/files/JLrT6YeSaC5h3JQX8h4aNaPXPgZvhgU-iWKeKkN23PSJ77Vg46C7IUv4BJYJ4OSBH9yZJOLnpyQjuIlFz7H0KlYF2XuUdSwv/mymessers003.jpg
spring steel is used in stage model reproductions and show pieces.
spring steel will not stand up to a real SS blade.
spring steel is what tape measures are made from.
it is a cheap low quality steel. i wouldnt even buy a spring steel blade for practice.
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NuEM
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GrymmDAOC posted:
That's good steel then. Stainless steel = crap. The slim and training versions seem closer to historical weights. Still, those are some nice looking swords, and from I hear Fabri has a good rep.
Next you should get a Kreigsmesser!
http://api.ning.com/files/JLrT6YeSaC5h3JQX8h4aNaPXPgZvhgU-iWKeKkN23PSJ77Vg46C7IUv4BJYJ4OSBH9yZJOLnpyQjuIlFz7H0KlYF2XuUdSwv/mymessers003.jpg
Good to hear. That thing looks neat.
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GrymmDAOC
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sweeny_comodore posted:
zhengwu IS a swordsmith. they use traditional methods, i think.
they dont make reproductions. they make the real things.
i was directed to zhengwu by "experts".
"did not differ much" can be several ounces.
im assuming your estimate of 3lbs for a european sword is a little high.
id be suprised if most european swords weighed in over 2.5lb.
and that still doesnt change the fact that a katana is going to be a few ounces lighter and more manueverable than a eruopean sword as that is what it was designed to be.
this whole discussion is akin to arguing over shaolin, krav maga, karate, mui tai, etc being better than the rest.
the fact is, they are all slightly different, used differently and a master of any of them is going to beat a slightly less skilled practioner of any of the rest.
you really cant compare the different styles of swords or martial arts because they all work just as good and depend solely on your skill with said martial art, not the art itself.
I am not saying which one is better or worse. There is no best sword.
i am well aware of who mr. Zhengwu is. he is an excellent swordsmith. But unless mr. Zhengwu was around 400 years ago, he is not making historical swords..he is making replicas. And unless he is licensed by the japanese government, is using tamahagane steel and is producing the blade according to a very strict set of rules, he is making a Katana shaped object, and not an officially recognised katana.
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poetkiosk
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So just to ask the obvious - why do you guys need swords?
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GrymmDAOC
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sweeny_comodore posted:
spring steel is used in stage model reproductions and show pieces.
spring steel will not stand up to a real SS blade.
spring steel is what tape measures are made from.
it is a cheap low quality steel. i wouldnt even buy a spring steel blade for practice.
Lol..stainless is crap. It shatters like glass. That's why swords are not made from it. Carbon steel is superior..that's why functioning replicas are made from it. That's why we can spar at high speed and not worry about our swords shattering.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjT4JepA-Vc
Now look carefully on Mr. Zhengwu's website..tell me what his sword blades are made from...
http://www.zhengwusword.com/zw/bladeconstruction.htm
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NuEM
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@Poetkiosk: Can you please re-phrase that, Sir? I'm not sure I understand your question.
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GrymmDAOC
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poetkiosk posted:
So just to ask the obvious - why do you guys need swords?
Fortunately in a functioning democracy I don't need to justify such things to folks like yourself 
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poetkiosk
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do you collect them and put them on a wall or use them or just Larp with them?
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NuEM
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I use them to deal with people asking funny questions. 
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__Bonk__
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STFU LARPERS!
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I think Larping is kind of cool, not a bad way to spend free time. Remember Kirana?
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I practice martial arts with them. The first is known as Armizare and dates back to 14th century italy. The second is a Korean art known as Haedong Gumdo. I don't own any actual replicas myself, only a training federschwerte.
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sweeny_comodore
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you must suck at martial arts if your trying to use spring steal.
or you do it for exhibition only?
what style do you practice?
kendo?
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GrymmDAOC posted:
sweeny_comodore posted:
zhengwu IS a swordsmith. they use traditional methods, i think.
they dont make reproductions. they make the real things.
i was directed to zhengwu by "experts".
"did not differ much" can be several ounces.
im assuming your estimate of 3lbs for a european sword is a little high.
id be suprised if most european swords weighed in over 2.5lb.
and that still doesnt change the fact that a katana is going to be a few ounces lighter and more manueverable than a eruopean sword as that is what it was designed to be.
this whole discussion is akin to arguing over shaolin, krav maga, karate, mui tai, etc being better than the rest.
the fact is, they are all slightly different, used differently and a master of any of them is going to beat a slightly less skilled practioner of any of the rest.
you really cant compare the different styles of swords or martial arts because they all work just as good and depend solely on your skill with said martial art, not the art itself.
I am not saying which one is better or worse. There is no best sword.
i am well aware of who mr. Zhengwu is. he is an excellent swordsmith. But unless mr. Zhengwu was around 400 years ago, he is not making historical swords..he is making replicas. And unless he is licensed by the japanese government, is using tamahagane steel and is producing the blade according to a very strict set of rules, he is making a Katana shaped object, and not an officially recognised katana.
hes chinese
from the website:
Mr. Zhou ZhengWu specialises in the study and manufacture of traditional Chinese and Japanese weaponry using traditional forging techniques.In 2005,his opus 'Han & Wu Swords' being regarded as representative of the only opus in China area was selected in 'Opuses Exhibition of International Sword-casting Masters' held in Macao Art Museum.Thus Mr. Zhou became the first Chinese smith that attended the exhibition of sword-casting in the world.
he doesnt make replicas.
he makes museum quality originals that will cost you around $8k for a good one.
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GrymmDAOC posted:
sweeny_comodore posted:
spring steel is used in stage model reproductions and show pieces.
spring steel will not stand up to a real SS blade.
spring steel is what tape measures are made from.
it is a cheap low quality steel. i wouldnt even buy a spring steel blade for practice.
Lol..stainless is crap. It shatters like glass. That's why swords are not made from it. Carbon steel is superior..that's why functioning replicas are made from it. That's why we can spar at high speed and not worry about our swords shattering.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjT4JepA-Vc
Now look carefully on Mr. Zhengwu's website..tell me what his sword blades are made from...
http://www.zhengwusword.com/zw/bladeconstruction.htm
carbon steel is stainless
edit:
yer right.
its the addition of nickel that makes it stainless, not the carbon. my bad
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smellymotor
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Subject:
On the weighty topic of western swords
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do you have pictures of wolves hanging up in your house sweeney?
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smellymotor
Young and Free
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sweeny_comodore
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Subject:
On the weighty topic of western swords
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smellymotor posted:
do you have pictures of wolves hanging up in your house sweeney?
just your mom on my nightstand
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Jesus? No, but there is indeed a god shaped hole in the heart of man, why is yours so empty? -- snarf igraine the original monotheism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phallus
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