Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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There are a few hard core Southern Evangelicals and Fundies. These few live a righteous life and are nazi-esque in their evangelism. However, they're not the majority... even among evangelicals or 'fundy' Christians.
The majority of 'fundy' and 'evangelical' Christians are lifestyle Christians. They go to big mega-churches to be seen, generally in their new fashions and jewels. They want to be seen as well-off or at least not struggling, but charitable. They give lip service to God and the commandments, but when real life comes up against the creed RL pragmatism wins out pretty much every time. Weekly. Maybe daily.
They sin. A LOT. And they expect that's A-OK because their belief says, "simply accept Jesus once and you are saved." That may not be the actual truth, but that's how they rationalize it to be, because that's the only standard they can live up to.
They assume they themselves are flawed. They assume it is OK to sin and fail in lots of ways. Their biggest motivator and hope -- that they'll be forgiven. Because many of them are pretty damned weak in their conviction and cry for the cosmic "I am saved" do-over on many things little and big on a damned near weekly basis... bolstered by their church-going which not-so-coincidentally is weekly.
Their public confession of faith says they should shun someone like Gingrich. Privately though, they not only root for someone so visibly fallen and Christian yet successful to be redeemed... they ARE him. To a huge extent. Regardless of the particular religious tag behind his name.
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Tych2
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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Not sure why it matters. I already knew they were pretenders.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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It matters bacause people talking about his 'marriage lapses' and 'taking cash' driving away the majority of the fundy vote clearly don't understand the fundy vote.
There's a reason he got a near-universal standing ovation in SC when he turned on the media for bothering to delve into the open marriage question... BEFORE he even bothered to deny it.
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Taliesihne
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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The state that has the most Mega-Churches is actually California.
Interesting factoid
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Allstarslacker
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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Christians shouldn't shun anyone, and they shouldn't mix politics with faith.
Mark 12:17:
"Then Jesus said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's." And they were amazed at him."
I don't think Jesus would vote for Gingrich, but I don't think he'd campaign against him either.
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AzureTyger
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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Captain Obvious posted:
Groundbreakingly obvious statements!
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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AzureTyger posted:
Captain Obvious posted:
Groundbreakingly obvious statements!
Then what does that say about the several idiots on the board who have proven they don't "get this" for about 6 months, now? 
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Tych2
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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Perhaps they don't care to understand them?
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GrymmDAOC
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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Many people who follow a religion, a philosophy or an ideology are doing it for appearances. The same way you get lifestyle christians, you have Urban Yuppie Buddhists (who follow the Boodah, who was apparently a hedonistic pot smoking trustafarian hippy and social activist), upper-middle class marxists, limousine liberals or so-called neopagans who are mostly just trying to LARP a fantasy novel. These things are lifestyle accessories, hobbies, something to take out and show the guests, then put away when the guests leave.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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Hence the point.
It isn't that Gingrich and his failings are just 'consistent' with the profile of most fundies. They actually resonate with and even MOTIVATE most fundies because of the prospect of very visible failure, redemption, and collective affirmation of the sinner. He's a vessel for their own projected guilt, shame and hope.
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uglydwarf
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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a webcomic that explains a bit better than i can why i don't care for organized religion. the stroryline goes on for a bit.
http://www.rhjunior.com/GH/00345.html
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Modeeb
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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This dynamic happening today in the South Carolina's vote will be historical. Newt is definitely outside an evangelical's comfort zone in public. but, in the voting booth, they get to be themselves, which is why so many live a life of appearances. Im not condemning this. We all like looking good. But a little Jesus ironically shows you a different way of being.
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Aerlinthian
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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Taliesihne posted:
The state that has the most Mega-Churches is actually California.
Interesting factoid
That actually is pretty interesting, where did you gleen that from?
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Yukishiro1
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
It matters bacause people talking about his 'marriage lapses' and 'taking cash' driving away the majority of the fundy vote clearly don't understand the fundy vote.
AA is actually right about this. Most Evangelicals profess one thing and do a completely different thing and they actually like candidates who are the same way because it makes them feel better about themselves.
The problem with Clinton wasn't he was banging the intern. The problem was he didn't buy into all the mumbo jumbo.
As long as you say the right things evangelicals don't care what you actually DO.
Romney is a far more godly canddiate than Gingrich in his personal life. But it hasn't really helped him with evangelicals because they don't care about what someone is actually like, they only care about what they say.
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Aerlinthian
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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Yukishiro1 posted:
The problem with Clinton wasn't he was banging the intern. The problem was he didn't buy into all the mumbo jumbo.
BZZZT! Wrong. The problem with what Clinton did he that he exposed himself and in turn the office to compromise.
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Yukishiro1
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I didn't realize you were a southern evangelical Aer. Hating Jews went out of fashion like 60 years ago in that demographic. It must be hard for you now.
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Aerlinthian
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That made no sense whatsoever. Which means that you defacto admit that the issue with Clinton was that he compromised the office of president.
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Taliesihne
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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Aerlinthian posted:
Taliesihne posted:
The state that has the most Mega-Churches is actually California.
Interesting factoid
That actually is pretty interesting, where did you gleen that from?
http://hirr.hartsem.edu/cgi-bin/mega/db.pl?db=default&uid=default&view_records=1&ID=*&sb=5
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stevenmeadowsin
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
There are a few hard core Southern Evangelicals and Fundies. These few live a righteous life and are nazi-esque in their evangelism. However, they're not the majority... even among evangelicals or 'fundy' Christians.
The majority of 'fundy' and 'evangelical' Christians are lifestyle Christians. They go to big mega-churches to be seen, generally in their new fashions and jewels. They want to be seen as well-off or at least not struggling, but charitable. They give lip service to God and the commandments, but when real life comes up against the creed RL pragmatism wins out pretty much every time. Weekly. Maybe daily.
They sin. A LOT. And they expect that's A-OK because their belief says, "simply accept Jesus once and you are saved." That may not be the actual truth, but that's how they rationalize it to be, because that's the only standard they can live up to.
They assume they themselves are flawed. They assume it is OK to sin and fail in lots of ways. Their biggest motivator and hope -- that they'll be forgiven. Because many of them are pretty damned weak in their conviction and cry for the cosmic "I am saved" do-over on many things little and big on a damned near weekly basis... bolstered by their church-going which not-so-coincidentally is weekly.
Their public confession of faith says they should shun someone like Gingrich. Privately though, they not only root for someone so visibly fallen and Christian yet successful to be redeemed... they ARE him. To a huge extent. Regardless of the particular religious tag behind his name.
lol I think you just nailed the entire population...though it does apply to the above as well
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Aerlinthian
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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Taliesihne posted:
http://hirr.hartsem.edu/cgi-bin/mega/db.pl?db=default&uid=default&view_records=1&ID=*&sb=5
Thanks. I wonder how that actually works out by per capita.
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Tych2
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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Only eight in MA and none in Western MA. We'll not have that nonsense here. 
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Yukishiro1
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What a lot of people don't realize about CA is we arn't all raging liberals. CA is like America itself. It has an affluent (although unequal), professional, globalized liberal coast and then a big heartland full of conservative people who still think they're living in the 1950s.
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__Bonk__
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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This song is about LA!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgbEYSbyepM 
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GrilledCheez
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What a vast over simplification.
Evangelicals dont' want a president who thinks their religious views are stupid. Thy are like any other voting block they want to think they will be listened to. They don't like Mitt because he is a flip flopper. They'd rather have a non religious somewhat social conservative who has been consistent in his support of that agenda than someone who is back and forth on stuff, or professes christian type beliefs but then compromises them away in legislation.
I probably have more experience with fundies than anyone else here. They aren't generally that informed, but they certainly don't like hypocrites. They like John Wayne types because that's how they view the world. They are the righteous go down with the ship types while most others are let's just try to get along types.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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GrilledCheez posted:
WI probably have more experience with fundies than anyone else here. They aren't generally that informed, but they certainly don't like hypocrites.
As someone who I bet has more experience with fundies than you claim, in undoubtedly more states and towns than you have ever lived: your statement shows me you aren't taking this seriously.
The majority of fundies ABSOLUTELY like hypocrites. And are hypocrites.
If you really know fundies, you know this springs primarily from their typical "I am saved by words not deeds" personal credos. This isn't even slamming them. It is simply seeing it for what it is.
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Modeeb
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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GrilledCheez posted:
They are the righteous go down with the ship types while most others are let's just try to get along types.
This is an excellent example of a false dichotomy fallacy.
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Moe_Nox
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This thread looks to have the potential of becoming the highest ratio of broad brush sterotype projecting arglebargle of any thread in OP history. Grats! 
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NuEM
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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uglydwarf posted:
a webcomic that explains a bit better than i can why i don't care for organized religion. the stroryline goes on for a bit.
http://www.rhjunior.com/GH/00345.html
That was quite furry-ish.
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GrilledCheez
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
GrilledCheez posted:
WI probably have more experience with fundies than anyone else here. They aren't generally that informed, but they certainly don't like hypocrites.
As someone who I bet has more experience with fundies than you claim, in undoubtedly more states and towns than you have ever lived: your statement shows me you aren't taking this seriously.
The majority of fundies ABSOLUTELY like hypocrites. And are hypocrites.
If you really know fundies, you know this springs primarily from their typical "I am saved by words not deeds" personal credos. This isn't even slamming them. It is simply seeing it for what it is.
You are clearly biased against them. I'm not sure if they touched you wrong or what. but they are just like any other group they have good people and bad. They have consistent thinkers and inconsistent thinkers. Your experience is clearly colored. I assume it's because you are a moron and in irrational thinker, but you can believe what you wish.
I think it's hilarious that you make judgments about the vast majority of evangelicals based on your experience with mega churches. Which don't even represent a fifth of all evangelicals. This doesn't surprise me though because you are arrogant enough to believe whatever you think about something is absolutely right and stupid enough not to understand the math.
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GrilledCheez
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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Modeeb posted:
GrilledCheez posted:
They are the righteous go down with the ship types while most others are let's just try to get along types.
This is an excellent example of a false dichotomy fallacy.
It certainly isn't good thinking no matter how you look at it. But it is pretty consistent from a certain perspective.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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GrilledCheez posted:
You are clearly biased against them...
I think it's hilarious that you make judgments about the vast majority of evangelicals based on your experience with mega churches...
I'm not going to write a 200 page book on this. I use the mega-church example as the most obvious example, but in fact much of my experience is with ministers/pastors (and their families), deacons, members, former members of smaller community congregations.
I have a couple in my immediate family who are quite decent. One is an in-law whom I consider a role model, and with whom I have some great ethical/political chats.
On the whole, across hundreds of examples I could spend a week citing... what I've said is simply the case. If you don't see it for lack of personal clarity or a broad enough perspective, that's not my problem.
Most religious have their unique characteristics and quirks, springing from their core belief set. I'd guess most members of most religions don't adhere to their creeds earnestly. But I don't have to guess about most fundy religions... I know. This pattern is simply what springs from most Fundy religiosity, for the majority of their members.
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vn_nnanji
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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AzureTyger posted:
Captain Obvious posted:
Groundbreakingly obvious statements!
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Kjarhall
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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Just because they're like him doesn't mean they're going to vote for him.
You'll get some, and then you'll also get some who will not vote for him because they feel guilt they're like him, and think voting against him will assuage that. And you'll also get those who don't vote for him so they can say they didn't vote for him and publicly 'prove' to others that they're all pious and look down on his actions.
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Allstarslacker
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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You guys are missing the point of this thread. AA was just tying to show us all how insightful he is.
Man what an insightful guy he is.
It's like he's a super genius that knows things regular people don't know.
If we would all recognize this and just listen to him we'd understand everything so much better.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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Sooner or later you'll all learn, dammit.
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Bobvillas
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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I have never heard this term "fundy". I live in a predominately catholic area, went to a catholic high school, and a mormon college.
Please help.
I am guessing it refers to fundamentalists?
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ZigmundZag
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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Gingrich is just the Not-Romney / Not-Obama candidate that they're settling on. I have no doubt that Gingrich is working an awesome ground campaign in SC, too, whereas Romney's "keep your mouth shut and you won't screw up anything too badly" strategy isn't panning out as well. The thing that they're not quite realizing is that Newt is a distinctly unlikable character, and when the character assassination really gets going during the campaign, he's going to look like ass to moderates and independents.
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Yukishiro1
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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Allstarslacker posted:
You guys are missing the point of this thread. AA was just tying to show us all how insightful he is.
Man what an insightful guy he is.
It's like he's a super genius that knows things regular people don't know.
If we would all recognize this and just listen to him we'd understand everything so much better.
That's AA's outpost schtick. That and posting goldfish pictures when he gets pwnt.
AA is actually a lot like Gingrich. 
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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Bobvillas posted:
I am guessing it refers to fundamentalists?
Christian Fundamentalist/Evangelicals... Pentecostals, many groups of Southern Baptists, etc.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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Yukishiro1 posted:
That's AA's outpost strength. That, and posting goldfish pictures when he's right.
fixt
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Remnant_OBrien
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Allstarslacker posted:
You guys are missing the point of this thread. AA was just tying to show us all how insightful he is.
Man what an insightful guy he is.
It's like he's a super genius that knows things regular people don't know.
If we would all recognize this and just listen to him we'd understand everything so much better.
That's AA's outpost schtick. That and posting goldfish pictures when he gets pwnt.
AA is actually a lot like Gingrich.
Which is why AA admires Gingrich =P
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Bobvillas
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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Of the friends I have that are in the lump we call Fundies, there are some that are definitely as AA puts it.
I have others that are fairly adherent to their beliefs.
I don't know that we can lump them all based on our personal majorities from our experiences.
I am not sure I buy into them voting based on guilt either.
Perhaps some, but majorities are rarely in the extreme.
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Ptilk
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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Evangelicals are followers by nature. They want a strong authority figure to tell them what to do and to make all the important decisions for them so they can get on with living their lives without all that pesky thinking messing up their day. In this they are like the vast majority of all people, they simply choose to follow an ideal that is more insular than most.
A set routine, dictated by god, and followed by them, makes life endurable and gives them comfort. They are conditioned by their very nature to believe whatever their locally chosen avatar of that god tells them. Facts that don't support what that avatar of god claims are always excluded from consideration as lies or ungodly attempts by evil to shake their faith.
That faith is their center and it has to be defended, no matter what, from the ungodly. Even considering what the ungodly claims... is a failure on their part. Absolutely steadfast support of their avatar of god is a virtue and they are virtuous!
This mindset is not uncommon, in fact, it's almost universal. The difference between evangelicals and others isn't in how they view the world, it's in how the pick the people who get to tell them how they should view it and their propensity to accept what those people tell them even when it doesn't agree with what they claim they believe.
They are "true believers" And will defend their guys to the end no matter what. They are the Taliban, the Cleveland Browns fan, the betamax fanbois. The more unpopular their viewpoint is, the more they cherish it.
We all have a tendency to be them...which is why their stance is both abhorrent and attractive to us.
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__Bonk__
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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Partisans are followers too. They just vote based on the (D) or the (R) after the candidates name. No thought needed.
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Moe_Nox
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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This thread casting judgement on evangelicals for being judgmental is like having a 2 year old with a dirty diaper complain to his parents that the other 2 year olds stink.
Amusing. Would read again.
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Groucho48
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We get it. It's okay if you are a Republican. It's always been that way. We just like mocking the folks who seem to think anything else is going on.
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Tych2
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Something folks don't get about Southern Evangelicals and Gingrich
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Man it is always repub/dem with you. I can't ever recall a post of yours that you didn't mention one of the two.
Well at least you are consistent.
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Voodoo-Dahl
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Ptilk posted:
Evangelicals are followers by nature. They want a strong authority figure to tell them what to do and to make all the important decisions for them so they can get on with living their lives without all that pesky thinking messing up their day. In this they are like the vast majority of all people, they simply choose to follow an ideal that is more insular than most.
A set routine, dictated by god, and followed by them, makes life endurable and gives them comfort. They are conditioned by their very nature to believe whatever their locally chosen avatar of that god tells them. Facts that don't support what that avatar of god claims are always excluded from consideration as lies or ungodly attempts by evil to shake their faith.
That faith is their center and it has to be defended, no matter what, from the ungodly. Even considering what the ungodly claims... is a failure on their part. Absolutely steadfast support of their avatar of god is a virtue and they are virtuous!
This mindset is not uncommon, in fact, it's almost universal. The difference between evangelicals and others isn't in how they view the world, it's in how the pick the people who get to tell them how they should view it and their propensity to accept what those people tell them even when it doesn't agree with what they claim they believe.
They are "true believers" And will defend their guys to the end no matter what. They are the Taliban, the Cleveland Browns fan, the betamax fanbois. The more unpopular their viewpoint is, the more they cherish it.
We all have a tendency to be them...which is why their stance is both abhorrent and attractive to us.
Betamax was the best format you sonovabitch!
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