Taliesihne
Title: Wind on the Deep Waters
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I have a job interview today - Opinion question about contacting your current employer
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So I have a job interview in like 4 hours. I'm nervous as hell because it's a good opportunity and I stand a great chance of getting the job. My phone interview went well and my best friend started working there a couple of months ago. I also have community connections to other people employed at this place. Skill wise I have what they are looking for and my salary requirements are in the right ballpark.
The one thing I am wrestling with is what to do about contacting my current employer. Let me give some background on that.
My current employer is in the midst of organizational chaos. Things are dicey to say the least. Upper Management was sacked a couple of months ago and they've been radically reforming the business. A lot of changes have been made and some people (like me) have been put into roles they don't really want to do. In my particular case, they allowed me to keep my job title and duties, but put me back in Quality Assurance (I'm one of three software engineers they did this too.) Because I am a bit of an oddity in software development and learned my trade on the job as opposed to in school, this was pretty devastating for me. I worked damn hard to finally get a proper job as a developer and was essentially forced to take a bit of step back. My new manager is a nice enough guy, but I don't really know him that well and he had a hand in 'landing' me as a developer (oddly enough, my unique skill set is pretty invaluable to my current business.)
We've been hemorraging talent for months and the business is quite paranoid about it. It's been the topic of discussion at several staff meetings and they are in their own corporate way begging us to hang in there.
It's also bonus time. We are currently closing our books on last year and will hand out bonuses in the next few weeks based on last year's performance. It's an arbitrary process that management has a big hand in. Last year I know several people that were awarded nothing because of office politics and not job performance. And it's occurring at the same time as the interview process. To be frank, my wife and I really need the money.
Finally, I should mention that my wife also works at my current employer. And although I don't think this will effect her, there is a large chunk of change at stake with the bonuses - it's about 20% of our yearly income all at once.
When it comes to references, I have 6 listed. 3 colleagues, my former tech lead and two former managers (the guy who hired me at my current employer and the guy who actually hired me as a developer.)
With all that in mind, how would you handle the request from your prospective employer to contact your current employer and current manager? I am tempted to tell them to wait to contact HR and to not contact my current manager. I'd really like to tell them just to contact my references and not the company itself. The people listed as references will hold confidence, once word gets out to HR or my current manager things could get a bit nasty for me.
Should I be honest about bonuses? Should I push the fact that things are a bit weird in the office right now? Should I just give them the info and let the chips fall where they may?
Any insight y'all could provide would be helpful. If nothing else, thanks for letting me burn off some nervous energy.
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ZigmundZag
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I have a job interview today - Opinion question about contacting your current employer
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It's not a negative reflection on the interviewer to tell them to not contact your current employer. A reference from a current employer is usually considered a biased one anyhow. They're going to want to verify your work history, obviously, but that's about it.
Honestly I'm kinda surprised that employers still rely on references. They're too easy to fake. As long as you have the experience and can show that you haven't been job-hopping for the last few years, the interview should tell them whether or not you're going to be a decent fit.
Don't share any information about current bonuses or current office politics. Simply tell them you're looking for new opportunities and a restructuring by your current employer was a step backward for you.
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Taliesihne
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I have a job interview today - Opinion question about contacting your current employer
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Not a big job hopper. I've been doing software development for 14 years and have worked at 4 companies. 6 at my current employer.
Thanks for the advice. What am I supposed to tell them when they ask why they can't contact my current employer?
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First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire. -Roland Deschain, of Gilead
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SirGarth
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I have a job interview today - Opinion question about contacting your current employer
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Agree with zig. Most employers wil understand not wanting to jeopardize current employment, especially until a firm offer has been negotiated and accepted.
Being honest and upfront about your current concerns doesn't seem like a bad idea, but I wouldnt overshare either. Stick to what is necessary and relevant to make sure your concerns are adequately addressed.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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I have a job interview today - Opinion question about contacting your current employer
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I don't allow people to interview my current employer unless I have permission to hunt. (I've been given that, a couple times).
I will sometimes refer them to a former manager of mine from that company who has moved on, for a personal reference in their capacity as my former manager. Or... I refer them to a prior employer.
I have a string of managers going back 15 years who I keep up with and who are all willing to give an excellent reference letter. That has served me well.
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vn_nnanji
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I have a job interview today - Opinion question about contacting your current employer
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It is common to not let them contact your current employer. Sounds like you have connections so they don't really need that reference anyway.
Careful about talking about your current situation though. You never want to sound like you are bitching or complaining. That is a red flag. "I just don't feel it is a stable environment" "not enough opportunity for advancement" osmething. Nothing further, explain it simply and without detail, being as positive as possible. Then STFU about it.
Don't come off like a victim or whiner, whatever you do.
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Taliesihne
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I have a job interview today - Opinion question about contacting your current employer
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Badjar, I intend to use the same strategy at the live interview that I did at the phone interview, which is to stress the positive and talk about the future and not the past.
The reasons I've listed and will be listing for wanting to leave have nothing to do with my current employer. I've chosen to focus on the things that my prospective employer offers.
As an example, instead of saying 'My current employer has gotten to corporate', I said 'I'm looking too return to a more intimate development environment as I'm happier and more productive in one'.
Essentially, the tact I am taking is that I am happy now, but could be happier somewhere else.
But I appreciate the advice. It's good advice. I was just wondering how you square that with not allowing them to contact my current employer.
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Sgian_Dubh
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I have a job interview today - Opinion question about contacting your current employer
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The common consensus for interviews always seems to be: Lie. Lie. Lie.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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I have a job interview today - Opinion question about contacting your current employer
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Taliesihne posted:
But I appreciate the advice. It's good advice. I was just wondering how you square that with not allowing them to contact my current employer.
Tali, you're not listening methinks.
It's normal for interviewees to say, "please do not contact my current employer, unless it is post-hiring to verify my salary."
IMO you are inventing a problem where there isn't one, really.
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Taliesihne
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I have a job interview today - Opinion question about contacting your current employer
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I'm satisfied with the answer AA - just explaining my thought process at the start of the post.
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Bonzoboy1
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I have a job interview today - Opinion question about contacting your current employer
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I've been contacted by other companies about employees, I tell them the truth and then decide if it is worth it to try to retain this person. Sometimes it solves problems, you don't get an increase in unemployment insurance when someone walks.
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IMHO
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I have a job interview today - Opinion question about contacting your current employer
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Let the company contact your employer, then use that as a leverage to get a bigger bonus? You want me to stay? How big of bonus you gonna give me. You said they are hemorrhaging talent, If you are let then show you with a big bonus.
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Clackdor
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I have a job interview today - Opinion question about contacting your current employer
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I've been on a few interviews over the past year. I have another tomorrow. Standard line for me is to not contact my current employer unless an offer is imminent and work history needs to be verified.
My current companies policy, right now, is to simply verify employment anyway. No good or bad reviews allowed.
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Moe_Nox
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I have a job interview today - Opinion question about contacting your current employer
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Tych beat me to it.
Tali if you want to leave, leave. If you like your current job but are simply worried abotu stability, let the interviewer contact your employer, raise the alarm that you may be leaving, and that will allow them to negotiate with you. Long term contract, bonus, perks, etc. If you are a good employee and I am sure you are, do not fear; especially if they have already been losing people. That makes you a commodity and and a valuable one at that.
No risk no gain.
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Taliesihne
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I have a job interview today - Opinion question about contacting your current employer
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IMHO posted:
Let the company contact your employer, then use that as a leverage to get a bigger bonus? You want me to stay? How big of bonus you gonna give me. You said they are hemorrhaging talent, If you are let then show you with a big bonus.
It's too much of a risk, but I've had the same thought.
I had already made my mind up about leaving before I started the job search.
At this point, the safety of diversifying my families income far outweighs short term financial goals. If I wait until the studio shuts down, I am then competing with 200 engineers in a very small market for employment.
I feel I've earned my bonus and am entitled to it. But leveraging my employer for more pay only solves a temporary problem. It also doesn't do much for my future earning potential as they've pigeonholed me.
My guess is my current employer is going to make that offer when I turn in my notice anyway.
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IMHO
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I have a job interview today - Opinion question about contacting your current employer
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You don't have to stay. You said the Bonus and the new job process are going on at the same time. play for the bonus, knowing you will be moving on. If you get the job before the bonus great, if you get the bonus before the job BINGO!! It's a win / win. Not sure what the problem is.
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Moe_Nox
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I have a job interview today - Opinion question about contacting your current employer
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Dammit Imho 
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_Enkidu_
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I have a job interview today - Opinion question about contacting your current employer
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You have the right idea, more or less, on how to handle this. Ask for discretion contacting your current employer. Companies deal with this all the time.
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IMHO
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I have a job interview today - Opinion question about contacting your current employer
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Moe_Nox posted:
Dammit Imho
 
I lost the Bronco / Pats bet with Tych..... he chose this icon for me for a week
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He's [Manegarm] like the Fred Phelps of atheism. ~Bubbledude
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eodoll
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I have a job interview today - Opinion question about contacting your current employer
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You can provide the name but not the contact info - write that they can only contact the reference with your permission.
Generally they shouldnt call them unless you have accepted the offer.
Normally, i tell the people that are my referene that they are my references and that they might get a phone call. The last time i told our VP of engineering that i wanted to use him as a reference and i asked him to keep it secret. He agreed to do it, he said he was disappointed i was leaving but this was a personal request i made; so he was respectful about it and did not bust my balls.
Edit: and then after he got the call, he stopped by my desk to tell me everything they asked. It was interesting to get that side of the story.
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vn_nnanji
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I have a job interview today - Opinion question about contacting your current employer
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Taliesihne posted:
Badjar, I intend to use the same strategy at the live interview that I did at the phone interview, which is to stress the positive and talk about the future and not the past.
The reasons I've listed and will be listing for wanting to leave have nothing to do with my current employer. I've chosen to focus on the things that my prospective employer offers.
As an example, instead of saying 'My current employer has gotten to corporate', I said 'I'm looking too return to a more intimate development environment as I'm happier and more productive in one'.
Essentially, the tact I am taking is that I am happy now, but could be happier somewhere else.
But I appreciate the advice. It's good advice. I was just wondering how you square that with not allowing them to contact my current employer.
Contacting your current employer jeopardizes your current job. That's why most applications say "may we contact your current employer" and in most cases people say no. And using it as a bargaining chip is stupid, even more so in this economy.
You have proven you have no loyalty and are a "flight risk". There are few companies who will reward that. It works in contract consulting and at very high levels but if you can be replaced you will be. Never mind that they have no loyalty to you...that doesn't matter in today's world. It's not really about loyalty, it's about risk. Once they know you are looking....you are a risk and a "bad investment."
Once an employer knows you are looking your status changes forever. If you have a current reference from your company you can trust that is one thing but a plain old HR check?
Besides, it's not just company policy that says they (current company) can only confirm your title and length of tenure, it's the law. They are not allowed to give a reference. So..why risk it?
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Taliesihne
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I have a job interview today - Opinion question about contacting your current employer
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It did not even come up. I checked no on their internal paperwork and wasn't asked about it.
The interview went well. My lack of formal education ended up being a positive as a ton of their developers started as entry level people at the company.
I am 80% sure they will be extending an offer in the next couple of weeks. I can't wait to start buying AV equipment at 5% above cost.
Thanks for all the advice.
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Jesus saves, Allah protects, and Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich
First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire. -Roland Deschain, of Gilead
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reesescups
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I have a job interview today - Opinion question about contacting your current employer
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Taliesihne posted:
I am 80% sure they will be extending an offer in the next couple of weeks.
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