__Bonk__
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News that Mitt has an ultra low tax rate
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Yet media tried to ignore the same issue brought by republicans with John Kerry
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Ptilk
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News that Mitt has an ultra low tax rate
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Well, Kerry only makes like 15 grand a year so his taxes would be pretty low. His wife's taxes on the other hand...hooboy that woman is rich.
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NuEM
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He is using the money he doesn't pay in taxes to create jobs. Don't you see it?
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Sansfear
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Mitt has the same tax rate as everyone else does on their investments.
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Bonzoboy1
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Subject:
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Sansfear posted:
Mitt has the same tax rate as everyone else does on their investments.
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Scarne
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And he thinks his own tax rates are too high. Part of his budget plans are to lower the capital gains tax some more.
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Taliesihne
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I fail to see the moral or ethical argument as to why investment should be taxed at a lower rate then money that was actually earned. America shares this opinion in huge numbers.
Saying that 'his investments are taxed just the same is everyone else's' actually makes the PR fallout from this worse, not better as it highlights just how disconnected you are from what the country actually wants.
Investment bankers should not pay less in taxes then an auto mechanic.
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Sansfear
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1) The money that is being invested has already been taxed at the earned rate.
2) Raising the capital gains rate would significantly reduce the amount of capital available for investment.
3) Investments are a calculated risk and a higher rate changes the calculus of the decision.
Most older Americans of all incomes benefit from the capital gains rate in their own investments, just not to the degree that the ultrarich do. My parents are in their 70s and pay the same 15% on their investments which constitutes the majority of their income.
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Koneg
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Taliesihne posted:
I fail to see the moral or ethical argument as to why investment should be taxed at a lower rate then money that was actually earned.
Perhaps because you're not retired and living on the interest and dividends? Money that was invested only after paying income taxes on it?
Idiots like you that want to tax investments and dividends at the same rate as employment income essentially want to give a huge "FARK YOU" to every senior citizen in this country who doesn't happen to have the same size nest egg as a Romney or a Warren Buffet.
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Tych2
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Koneg posted:
Taliesihne posted:
I fail to see the moral or ethical argument as to why investment should be taxed at a lower rate then money that was actually earned.
Perhaps because you're not retired and living on the interest and dividends?
I have a lot of elderly clients that are just like that. It sucks for them.
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Allstarslacker
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So create a progressive capital gains tax.
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Taliesihne
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So exempt senior citizens. Problem solved.
An investment banker my age should be paying the same taxes I am.
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Szerek
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Koneg posted:
[quote=Taliesihne]Money that was invested only after paying income taxes on it?
You do realize that you don't pay taxes on the money you've invested but your gains on that money invested, which is money you've never paid taxes on.
To make is simple for you, you buy 1000 shares of XYZ stock in 2004 for $1 per share. In 2010 you sold all of your XYZ stock for $3 per share. That gives you a capital gain of $2000 which you have never paid taxes on.
A progressive capital gains tax is needed. And not the 0 or 15% tax we have now.
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Seething199
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Sansfear posted:
1) The money that is being invested has already been taxed at the earned rate.
what an irrelevant point. that money isn't being taxed again. additional profits on that money are now being taxed. low capitol gains tax is little more than a blowjob for the rich. yes, regular people benefit from it too at times. but at not nearly the same rate.
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Grymlo
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News that Mitt has an ultra low tax rate
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Allstarslacker posted:
So create a progressive capital gains tax.
Dont know why this isnt the case except that we are talking about Washington doing something smert.
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Koneg
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Szerek posted:
Koneg posted:
Money that was invested only after paying income taxes on it?
You do realize that you don't pay taxes on the money you've invested but your gains on that money invested, which is money you've never paid taxes on.
/facepalm
Duh?
Szerek posted:
To make is simple for you, you buy 1000 shares of XYZ stock in 2004 for $1 per share.
I'll make it simpler for you. The $10,000 you just spent?
You paid income taxes on that $10k when you earned it, right? That was money you invested only after paying income taxes on it.
Reading Comprehension: Don't leave home without it.
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Scarne
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Sansfear posted:
2) Raising the capital gains rate would significantly reduce the amount of capital available for investment.
There is too much capital available currently. An overabundance of capital helps in creating things like housing bubbles.
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Seething199
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Koneg posted:
Szerek posted:
Koneg posted:
Money that was invested only after paying income taxes on it?
You do realize that you don't pay taxes on the money you've invested but your gains on that money invested, which is money you've never paid taxes on.
/facepalm
Duh?
Szerek posted:
To make is simple for you, you buy 1000 shares of XYZ stock in 2004 for $1 per share.
I'll make it simpler for you. The $10,000 you just spent?
You paid income taxes on that $10k when you earned it, right? That was money you invested only after paying income taxes on it.
Reading Comprehension: Don't leave home without it.
wtf does that have to do with anything?
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IMHO
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Sansfear posted:
Mitt has the same tax rate as everyone else does on their elite status.
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reesescups
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Koneg posted:
Szerek posted:
Koneg posted:
Money that was invested only after paying income taxes on it?
You do realize that you don't pay taxes on the money you've invested but your gains on that money invested, which is money you've never paid taxes on.
/facepalm
Duh?
Szerek posted:
To make is simple for you, you buy 1000 shares of XYZ stock in 2004 for $1 per share.
I'll make it simpler for you. The $10,000 you just spent?
You paid income taxes on that $10k when you earned it, right? That was money you invested only after paying income taxes on it.
Reading Comprehension: Don't leave home without it.
A) WTF did you come up with $10k - forget about reading comprehension for a moment, do you understand basic math? I think you fail at both reading and math.
B) You took money you earned and already paid taxes on and invested it in XYZ - that investment turned a profit - profits get taxed. You aren't paying taxes on the same money twice. If you already had the profits you made from your investment, it wouldn't be a profit...
U R kind of dumb, obviously.
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eodoll
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Investment income should be taxed like regular income. I see no reason not to other than to keep the ultra rich, ultra rich.
Edit: Btw, it is taxed as regular income for short term investments.
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Koneg
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reesescups posted:
A) WTF did you come up with $10k - forget about reading comprehension for a moment, do you understand basic math?
He typed 1000, I added a zero. Blame it on the lack of sufficient caffeine.
reesescups posted:
You aren't paying taxes on the same money twice.
Uh, never said you did? The capital gains tax is on the profit of the investment, not the investment.
The $1k was income and it was already taxed as income at income tax rates.
The profit is not income - nor should it be taxed as "income" at income tax rates.
Everyone's capital gains tax is the same - but because everyone is paying the same rate this is somehow "not fair" 
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reesescups
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Income is income is income - stop class warfare!
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Yukishiro1
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Seething199 posted:
Sansfear posted:
1) The money that is being invested has already been taxed at the earned rate.
what an irrelevant point. that money isn't being taxed again. additional profits on that money are now being taxed.
No kidding. I always look for people making this argument about capital gains because it is a surefire sign they're a complete moron.
His other points are also stupid and/or incorrect. Raising the capital gains rate only lowers available investment income to the extent that any tax lowers economic activity, and because it reduces the incentive to fraudulently catagorize income as capital gains for tax purposes when it really isn't.
Finally, higher capital gains rates raise the cost of capital for risky investments but that's not necessarily a bad thing given the economic history of the past 5 years. "Effect investment decisions" just means "tilts the calculus towards safer, lower-return investments."
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Sin_of_Onin
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We provide plenty of oppotunity for people to invest in their retirement without worrying taxation on capital gains.
Taxes on labor also impact investment calculations. In fact they impact the calculation whether the investment turns positive or not.
The idea that a low capital gains tax rate is about encouraging investment or retired people and is somehow a necressary part of establishing economic incentives is ignorant and illogical nonsense.
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__Bonk__
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RAISE SKONK'S TAX RATE
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theredkay1
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All income should be taxed the same. Koneg and sansfear show us there is no good argument otherwise.
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Voodoo-Dahl
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There is something unseemly about rich people in government looking for tax cuts for themselves. How the hell do you vote for people of such low character?
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Ptilk
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I live almost entirely off of capital gains income and have for a few years now. It's insane that I pay such a low tax rate on it and I would have no problem with that income being taxed at the same rate as my other income.
More than half of all capital gains income paid out over the past 20 years...went to the top .1% of the country. Yes, that is zero point one percent.
It's not about poor little old grandmas retirement, it's about Mitt Romneys and John Kerrys of the world paying a lower tax rate than the guy who cleans their toilets. As has been mentioned, simply set up a progressive tax rate structure if you want to help out grandma.....or crusty old bastards like me. 
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Yukishiro1
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Investment being preferentially taxed is the greatest tax distortion in economic history. It always cracks me up seeing RWNs cry about the distorting effects taxes have on the free market and the ignore the biggest distortion of all.
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