Cawlin
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How Much is a Homemaker Worth?
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http://finance.yahoo.com/news/much-homemaker-worth-182358580.html
Total for a year of all services:
$52,260 (meal preparation) + $6,137 (house cleaning) + $31,200 (child care) + $4,168 (driver) + $936 (laundry service) + $1,560 (lawn maintenance) = $96,261 per year.
The meal preparation figures are based on personal chef salaries of $200/day for 5 days a week.
The child care numbers are based on $600/week salary for live-in nannies.
So what do the hours of playing Farmville on Facebook and doing WoW daily quests cost?
I'm not trying to say that a homemaker isn't providing huge value to the family, nor am I saying it's a simple job, but saying those duties are worth practically $100k/year or even asserting that there is $100k/year worth of savings from having a stay-at home parent is wildly exaggerated.
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Scarne
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Doesn't include the cost of supplies for a lot of those. Usually when you hire something like a house cleaning service, they use their own cleaning supplies to do the work. The cost of using such services already has the costs built into them. So when the homemaker does such jobs, some of the savings you are getting by not hiring someone are used up by needing to buy the supplies to do the job yourself. 
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Altra_Shadowstalker
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Yeah, that's just dumb.
Plus, dad always mowed the lawn and took out the trash. And mom ate the meals she prepared with us, so that's gotta go towards some of the cost.
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Cawlin
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I could buy it if there weren't $52k in there for meal preparation.
Most people cooking in restaurants aren't making that much and they may prepare a few thousand meals a week rather than a few dozen.
Child care is a bitch in some places for sure though, but of course that also becomes MUCH less burdensome as the kids get into school... the first few years though... oh man...
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the_great_intex
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lol, no way it is $96k/year. Cleaning a house is difficult but if done routinely takes maybe an hour a week? If that? Depends on how much everyone else are slobs, though
Maintaining a house and family isn't a full time job, especially if kids are of school age
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Yukishiro1
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How Much is a Homemaker Worth?
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Cawlin posted:
The meal preparation figures are based on personal chef salaries of $200/day for 5 days a week.
lol
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Yeah... that's pretty wildly exaggerated.
Original 'Value Guess' posted:
$52,260 (meal preparation) + $6,137 (house cleaning) + $31,200 (child care) + $4,168 (driver) + $936 (laundry service) + $1,560 (lawn maintenance) = $96,261 per year.
The meal preparation figures are based on personal chef salaries of $200/day for 5 days a week.
The child care numbers are based on $600/week salary for live-in nannies.
Ridiculously flawed.
You can't have it both ways... benefits with no costs. You have to take out the cost for that person eating your food, living in a portion of the house, transportation you are letting them use, etc. If you are using "retail costs" of transportation/mile and food costs alone you knock off probably around $18,000 right off the top. For starters. Add in rent and you can knock off another $6000 a year at minimum.
You wouldn't be giving free food to your house cleaner 3 times a day, etc.
Also, VERRRRRY FEW 'home makers' these days come anywhere CLOSE to the skill, knowledge or benefits of having a personal chef/nutritional consultant @ $200/hour.  That's probably somewhere more around $40/hour for an entry level fast-order chef at a restaurant.
We could keep going... but the actual "value" is probably closer to $45,000 a year in most parts of the country.
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RHWarrior
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$96000 a year?
Did they include the cost of poon if you get it from a professional source too or what? 
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Kjarhall
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How Much is a Homemaker Worth?
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Cawlin posted:
How Much is a Homemaker Worth?
Priceless
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Sgian_Dubh
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Apparently not much if you hail from the outpost.
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Yukishiro1
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200/day, not 200/hour. Also you wouldn't knock of 18k for food and transportation costs unless your homemaker weighs 600 pounds and requires 10 pounds of food a day and custom transportation.
This has been another installment of "MBAs can't read or do math."
But your basic point is correct in spite of all that. The number is ridiculously overinflated.
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Cawlin
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The reality is that most "homemakers" make one meal a day that takes more than 5 minutes to prepare - that's dinner. Breakfast is usually some cereal or oatmeal, hell even if it's eggs, I can fix 4 "breakfast burritos" with eggs, cheese, and bacon in soft tortillas in under 10 minutes.
The cooking numbers are what really make it so absurd.
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Cawlin
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How Much is a Homemaker Worth?
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Kjarhall posted:
Cawlin posted:
How Much is a Homemaker Worth?
Priceless
And the truth is Kj, you're correct, you really are, however, there are lots of things that are "priceless" when trying to place financial value on interpersonal relationships.
What is the value of an earner who can afford to let the other parent stay at home?
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Altra_Shadowstalker
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How Much is a Homemaker Worth?
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RHWarrior posted:
$96000 a year?
Did they include the cost of poon if you get it from a professional source too or what?
I figured that would be a perk for the "live-in-nanny" 
Or for most Outposters, nonexistent.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Yukishiro1 posted:
200/day, not 200/hour. Also you wouldn't knock of 18k for food and transportation costs unless your homemaker weighs 600 pounds and requires 10 pounds of food a day and custom transportation.
lrn 2 read 
As I said... at RETAIL (market) costs. They're charging you full retail/market wages in their examples. So I'm using per-diem allowances allowed by the government or typical corporations for allowable market/retail numbers on costs per mile, etc.
As I also said... the whole thing is hopelessly flawed, so even trying to match costs to it that are apples-to-apples isn't terribly useful, either. It's not even sound enough to be a valid starting point for anything 'real.'
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Yukishiro1
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When you hire a personal chef you think 18k of 53k cost is transportation and the cost of food to feed the chef? 
But anyhow we agree it's a stupid exercise.
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Snarf_Igraine
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How Much is a Homemaker Worth?
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Kjarhall posted:
Cawlin posted:
How Much is a Homemaker Worth?
Priceless
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eodoll
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I know people you can hire to do a home caregiver job, cleaning/driving/companionship/cooking/bathroom help at $40 a day - some will even spend the nght.
When my grandmother got depressed after my grandfather died... We hired 3 ladies so that there was at least one person staying with her all the time. It didnt cost us $300k a year.. Much less. She didnt want to move out of her house and move in with her kids otherwise it would have cost $0.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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@Yuki -- I was actually overly-generous (in favor of the idiots who said it is $96k) and allocated transportation across all the 'trades' as though it was only one person doing it all... since it is only one person on the other side of the ledger. Just enough thought to prove a BASIC point that they're probably 50% or so off, because they are front-loading RETAIL costs designed to cover profit margins, etc and then not subtracting costs. In reality an analysis would need to be much deeper.
I'd love to know what the actual value really is. But we agree... this exercise is a pretty stupid way to do it.
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Yukishiro1
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It would be easy enough to see what it actually costs to hire a live at home nanny/chef/etc if you provide them food and lodging.
I would guess it would be more like about 30k/year.
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Kjarhall
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How Much is a Homemaker Worth?
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Cawlin posted:
Kjarhall posted:
Cawlin posted:
How Much is a Homemaker Worth?
Priceless
And the truth is Kj, you're correct, you really are, however, there are lots of things that are "priceless" when trying to place financial value on interpersonal relationships.
What is the value of an earner who can afford to let the other parent stay at home?
I just don't think it's fair to consider a homemakers worth, in $$$'s. There are too many intangibles and unfair comparisons to working outside the home.
So i simply defer from placing a financial value on interpersonal relationships at all.
One may also say "How much is your spouses love worth annually", but I don't see there being anything to gain by trying to answer either question. Unless you're trying to gain by subtraction, if ya know what i mean.
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Cawlin
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How Much is a Homemaker Worth?
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Kjarhall posted:
Cawlin posted:
And the truth is Kj, you're correct, you really are, however, there are lots of things that are "priceless" when trying to place financial value on interpersonal relationships.
What is the value of an earner who can afford to let the other parent stay at home?
I just don't think it's fair to consider a homemakers worth, in $$$'s. There are too many intangibles and unfair comparisons to working outside the home.
So i simply defer from placing a financial value on interpersonal relationships at all.
One may also say "How much is your spouses love worth annually", but I don't see there being anything to gain by trying to answer either question. Unless you're trying to gain by subtraction, if ya know what i mean.
I hear you loud and clear...
@ Yuki, that figure would be dependent on how many kids and where in the country you live, but is probably close to the mark.
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Yukishiro1 posted:
It would be easy enough to see what it actually costs to hire a live at home nanny/chef/etc if you provide them food and lodging.
I would guess it would be more like about 30k/year.
30k easily. From people ive talked to though.. If you go the cash route, its in the $40 a day range without boarding. Generally, these are older foreign ladies that are stay at home with nithing to do all day anyway.
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ZigmundZag
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Those numbers are usually put in tabloids and magazines that are purchased predominantly by housewives. I'm surprised they didn't include "live in call-girl" quotes on top of everything else.
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the_great_intex posted:
lol, no way it is $96k/year. Cleaning a house is difficult but if done routinely takes maybe an hour a week? If that? Depends on how much everyone else are slobs, though
Maintaining a house and family isn't a full time job, especially if kids are of school age
A house for a family takes one hour a week to clean? You are stupid. Try it yourself sometime then come back and post.
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Yukishiro1
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Intex is a super clean freak. I think he is probably assuming everyone is like him and does all the cleaning themselves compulsively so there isn't much left for the homemaker to have to do.
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Tipztoe
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They also get free room & board, food, health insurance, dental insurance, eye insurance, and a company car. Don't forget the free gifts and vacations etc as well.
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Cawlin
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Jorrdan posted:
the_great_intex posted:
lol, no way it is $96k/year. Cleaning a house is difficult but if done routinely takes maybe an hour a week? If that? Depends on how much everyone else are slobs, though
Maintaining a house and family isn't a full time job, especially if kids are of school age
A house for a family takes one hour a week to clean? You are stupid. Try it yourself sometime then come back and post.
I would put the average figure at about an hour per day - but that depends on you spending that much per day so you don't get behind on the cleaning. When you get behind on it, it takes you a lot longer to catch up.
That does NOT include chores like laundry and such.
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Sin_of_Onin
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One hour a week?
A stay at home parent can help save money. Meal planning and day care are probably the two biggest areas of savings but a lot of it just comes down to standard of living. It is a nice luxury to have a spouse taking care of the house.
With both spouses working both end up doing more work and they will start paying people to do stuff.
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Yukishiro1
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Things change a lot when there are kids involved.
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Cawlin
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Things change a lot when there are kids involved.
That's true. If there are no kids, it's pure luxury to not have both people in a marriage/cohabitation scenario working at bringing in cash.
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the_great_intex posted:
lol, no way it is $96k/year. Cleaning a house is difficult but if done routinely takes maybe an hour a week? If that? Depends on how much everyone else are slobs, though
Maintaining a house and family isn't a full time job, especially if kids are of school age
You are funny. 
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Jorrdan
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I think the numbers are inflated as well. However, I think a price needs to be put on them. Because, inevitably, she will be divorced and the man will say..."You want half my money for what? You didn't do anything." Meanwhile, she will have sacrificed her education, her body, and her time "not doing anything" for years. While her soon to be ex husband expects her to go live in poverty now as a result.
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Cawlin
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Jorrdan posted:
I think the numbers are inflated as well. However, I think a price needs to be put on them. Because, inevitably, she will be divorced and the man will say..."You want half my money for what? You didn't do anything." Meanwhile, she will have sacrificed her education, her body, and her time "not doing anything" for years. While her soon to be ex husband expects her to go live in poverty now as a result.
Courts are generally handling this quite well nowadays in most cases.
With that said though, putting a value on these services is a very labor intensive prospect. In the region where I live, most families with two working parents are makning under $70k/year total. Costs are *mostly* relative for things like child care and other services such as cleaning and whatnot.
If the job of homemaker is worth $30k/year in a place like San Fran with 2 kids included, then it's worth $12k/year where I live...
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I was married for 13 years. I think she made me a sammich. Once.
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Cawlin posted:
Jorrdan posted:
I think the numbers are inflated as well. However, I think a price needs to be put on them. Because, inevitably, she will be divorced and the man will say..."You want half my money for what? You didn't do anything." Meanwhile, she will have sacrificed her education, her body, and her time "not doing anything" for years. While her soon to be ex husband expects her to go live in poverty now as a result.
Courts are generally handling this quite well nowadays in most cases.
With that said though, putting a value on these services is a very labor intensive prospect. In the region where I live, most families with two working parents are makning under $70k/year total. Costs are *mostly* relative for things like child care and other services such as cleaning and whatnot.
If the job of homemaker is worth $30k/year in a place like San Fran with 2 kids included, then it's worth $12k/year where I live...
Right. I have found that unless you are upper middle class, in my area, it is often cheaper for one parent to stay home because of the cost of child care. It is absurd here.
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Cawlin
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How Much is a Homemaker Worth?
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Jorrdan posted:
Cawlin posted:
Jorrdan posted:
I think the numbers are inflated as well. However, I think a price needs to be put on them. Because, inevitably, she will be divorced and the man will say..."You want half my money for what? You didn't do anything." Meanwhile, she will have sacrificed her education, her body, and her time "not doing anything" for years. While her soon to be ex husband expects her to go live in poverty now as a result.
Courts are generally handling this quite well nowadays in most cases.
With that said though, putting a value on these services is a very labor intensive prospect. In the region where I live, most families with two working parents are makning under $70k/year total. Costs are *mostly* relative for things like child care and other services such as cleaning and whatnot.
If the job of homemaker is worth $30k/year in a place like San Fran with 2 kids included, then it's worth $12k/year where I live...
Right. I have found that unless you are upper middle class, in my area, it is often cheaper for one parent to stay home because of the cost of child care. It is absurd here.
Yeah there really are some seemingly inexplicable variations in those costs from region to region. Where I live you can get after school care for one child for $65-75/week and full work day baby sitting for around $125/week per child. Meanwhile that same daycare is upwards of 4 or 5 times that much just a hundred miles away...
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Sin_of_Onin
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Daycare is ridiculously expensive.
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Cawlin
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
Daycare is ridiculously expensive.
That's what happens when you want bonded, licensed, certified, insured, witnessed, baby sitters with references and who have three adults present every second of the day to make sure everything is OK...
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Sin_of_Onin
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Cawlin posted:
Sin_of_Onin posted:
Daycare is ridiculously expensive.
That's what happens when you want bonded, licensed, certified, insured, witnessed, baby sitters with references and who have three adults present every second of the day to make sure everything is OK...
I have no problem with any of that.
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Cawlin
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
Cawlin posted:
Sin_of_Onin posted:
Daycare is ridiculously expensive.
That's what happens when you want bonded, licensed, certified, insured, witnessed, baby sitters with references and who have three adults present every second of the day to make sure everything is OK...
I have no problem with any of that.
Then you should pick a different adjective than "ridiculously" to describe the expense of daycare because that's why it's that expensive.
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Ptilk
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I found it easier, and cheaper, to simply keep a small elderly foreign woman in a spare room and have her take care of the kid.
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Sin_of_Onin
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Cawlin posted:
Then you should pick a different adjective than "ridiculously" to describe the expense of daycare because that's why it's that expensive.
Well I am sure unregulated daycare is great but I still think the quality I would demand as a parent would result in ridiculously expensive costs. I am sure you could save a bundle though.
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Cawlin
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
Cawlin posted:
Then you should pick a different adjective than "ridiculously" to describe the expense of daycare because that's why it's that expensive.
Well I am sure unregulated daycare is great but I still think the quality I would demand as a parent would result in ridiculously expensive costs. I am sure you could save a bundle though.
I just think you don't understand what "ridiculous" means.
Hint: if you call something ridiculous and then say you have no problem with it, you've either picked the wrong adjective or are lying...
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Yukishiro1
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Wait wut were we talking about? <looks up and sees "Outpost">
Oh nvm, answer works regardless.
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Cawlin
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The skyrocketing costs of childcare are a direct result of the litigious nature of our society, especially in the past 20-30 years.
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You can send your kids to a small at-home daycare that doesn't have all the burdensome regulations hanging over it, but you'd better make sure it's with someone you trust because there are going to be times that those kids are unsupervised, if only for a few minutes for an occasional bathroom break. If you have two kids it's usually cheaper and a quite a bit more pleasant to share a nanny with a friend (assuming you have friends with kids in daycare). Daycare is painfully/ridiculously expensive - whatever adjective you want to use, I don't really care. It's my family's second biggest expense after mortgage payments, and it's a very close second. I'll be glad when I can send my daughter to Kindergarten this year and can pass along some of the expense to my fellow taxpayers.
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Cawlin
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ZigmundZag posted:
You can send your kids to a small at-home daycare that doesn't have all the burdensome regulations hanging over it, but you'd better make sure it's with someone you trust because there are going to be times that those kids are unsupervised, if only for a few minutes for an occasional bathroom break. If you have two kids it's usually cheaper and a quite a bit more pleasant to share a nanny with a friend (assuming you have friends with kids in daycare). Daycare is painfully/ridiculously expensive - whatever adjective you want to use, I don't really care. It's my family's second biggest expense after mortgage payments, and it's a very close second. I'll be glad when I can send my daughter to Kindergarten this year and can pass along some of the expense to my fellow taxpayers.
Yep, it's brutal and I agree and understand. It's a shame that so many families are forced to have both parents working in order to make ends meet...
Just for the record, there are times when your kids are unsupervised in your own home if you or your wife are staying home with them too - that is unless you don't actually use the bathroom yourself...
Oh and FYI, my sister paid $1260/month to have her daughter in daycare in Central NJ and it was a bargain for them heh... crazy!
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In this economy you are rich if one spouse can stay home with the kids
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