Moe_Nox
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I am alone in wanting the best candidate from each side to rise to the top
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I would love to see the best that each side has to offer win their nominations and have intelligent and thought provoking debate.
This is why the repubs are stupid because they are pushing someone they think can beat Obama rather than a candidate that bests represents what they want.
This is why the dems are retarded because even tho they strongly dislike much of what Obama has done they would rather stick with him for a win and not rock the boat instead of lifting up a new contender that can better carry the torch of vigor and new ideas, instead of selling out to Wallstreet as Obama has done.
You dumb as a rock guys are the bricks that form the foundation of the establishment. The mountain of stupid is built upon your backs.
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Ptilk
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I am alone in wanting the best candidate from each side to rise to the top
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I wish someone would have challenged Obama for the nomination. No one did. Choosing the best choice among the current candidates isn't an act of stupidity, it's an act of self interest. I get more of what I want from my chosen candidate than I would from any other actual candidate.
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Taliesihne
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You aren't alone Mo.
Your ego is though.
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First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire. -Roland Deschain, of Gilead
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Rosaria
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I am alone in wanting the best candidate from each side to rise to the top
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Moe_Nox posted:
I would love to see the best that each side has to offer win their nominations and have intelligent and thought provoking debate.
This is why the repubs are stupid because they are pushing someone they think can beat Obama rather than a candidate that bests represents what they want.
This is why the dems are retarded because even tho they strongly dislike much of what Obama has done they would rather stick with him for a win and not rock the boat instead of lifting up a new contender that can better carry the torch of vigor and new ideas, instead of selling out to Wallstreet as Obama has done.
You dumb as a rock guys are the bricks that form the foundation of the establishment. The mountain of stupid is built upon your backs.
To the T my good man, to the T.
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RHWarrior
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See, this is exactly the fundamental flaw with Amercan politics, it's even ingrained into you; "each side", like it's a fundamental law of physics or something.
There are always exactly 2 sides.
Never 3, never 4 or more, and never 1 (though the last is a great thing).
Always 2.
And apparently the voters want it that way.
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Seething199
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RHWarrior posted:
See, this is exactly the fundamental flaw with Amercan politics, it's even ingrained into you; "each side", like it's a fundamental law of physics or something.
There are always exactly 2 sides.
Never 3, never 4 or more, and never 1 (though the last is a great thing).
Always 2.
And apparently the voters want it that way.
nowadays it's just 1. romney will be almost no different than obama. aside from mastery of the english language and not starting new wars, obama is almost no different than bush.
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Afio
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Seething199 posted:
RHWarrior posted:
See, this is exactly the fundamental flaw with Amercan politics, it's even ingrained into you; "each side", like it's a fundamental law of physics or something.
There are always exactly 2 sides.
Never 3, never 4 or more, and never 1 (though the last is a great thing).
Always 2.
And apparently the voters want it that way.
nowadays it's just 1. romney will be almost no different than obama. aside from mastery of the english language and not starting new wars, obama is almost no different than bush.
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Jorrdan
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Taliesihne posted:
You aren't alone Mo.
Your ego is though.
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Eh.
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Sin_of_Onin
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I am alone in wanting the best candidate from each side to rise to the top
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Are people really upset that no one from the left went after Obama?
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Taliesihne
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
Are people really upset that no one from the left went after Obama?
There is legitimacy to that claim and it is a complaint I have heard from the left. But almost everyone realizes that it means losing the election.
That said, I've never been able to deduce whether Moe wants to see someone run against Obama because he 'wants the best candidate' or it's just a lame, pious way of trying to get Obama out of the White House.
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ineenia
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nm
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If their stupidity didn't shelter them from the full shame of their actions,their would be alot more republican suicides.
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Afio
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Fun read
http://www.wwl.com/Obama--Bush--Fool-Me-ONCE---Fool-me-TWICE----/10773584?pid=194998
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Voodoo-Dahl
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Afio posted:
Fun read
http://www.wwl.com/Obama--Bush--Fool-Me-ONCE---Fool-me-TWICE----/10773584?pid=194998
For morons.
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Sin_of_Onin
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Afio that reads like a laundry list of populist confusion over economics.
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SoBaKi
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Moe_Nox posted:
I would love to see the best that each side has to offer win their nominations and have intelligent and thought provoking debate.
This is why the repubs are stupid because they are pushing someone they think can beat Obama rather than a candidate that bests represents what they want.
This is why the dems are retarded because even tho they strongly dislike much of what Obama has done they would rather stick with him for a win and not rock the boat instead of lifting up a new contender that can better carry the torch of vigor and new ideas, instead of selling out to Wallstreet as Obama has done.
You dumb as a rock guys are the bricks that form the foundation of the establishment. The mountain of stupid is built upon your backs.
Agree 100%.
However, knowing what you know about the system, would YOU want to go through what these assclowns are willing to go through?
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Sin_of_Onin
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Taliesihne posted:
Sin_of_Onin posted:
Are people really upset that no one from the left went after Obama?
There is legitimacy to that claim and it is a complaint I have heard from the left. But almost everyone realizes that it means losing the election.
That said, I've never been able to deduce whether Moe wants to see someone run against Obama because he 'wants the best candidate' or it's just a lame, pious way of trying to get Obama out of the White House.
It is perfectly legitimate to put pressure on Obama from within his own party. It is flat out stupid to act like the party is somehow at fault for not throwing candidates at Obama and contesting him with a primary.
The fact is the left has lost what ground it had in part due to failures at the legislative level. The Dem party needs to do a lot more to sell their message to the people. It is like the entire team is sitting on their hands waiting for Obama to put the ball in the basket.
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Afio
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
Afio that reads like a laundry list of populist confusion over economics.
Well, he is a talk show host, what do you want?
He gets bent out of shape and goes on and on.
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I'm not old, I'm crunchy.
IMHO: "You know your poop,Lyndrek"
"Unless you try to do something beyond what you have already mastered, you will never grow." - Ronald E. Osborn
I stole the above from Bonk's facebook, thanks.
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Moe_Nox
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SoO you are intelligent mate, and you have acknowledge the pieces. Why not take the next step and put them together?
You can't recognize the Dems doing nil by saying this
The fact is the left has lost what ground it had in part due to failures at the legislative level. The Dem party needs to do a lot more to sell their message to the people. It is like the entire team is sitting on their hands waiting for Obama to put the ball in the basket.
And then excuse the party for not cleaning up their own with this
It is flat out stupid to act like the party is somehow at fault for not throwing candidates at Obama and contesting him with a primary.
Leaving the mess for the other party to clean up, along with giving them blame ammo, is the cycle that needs to be broken.
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Scarne
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I am alone in wanting the best candidate from each side to rise to the top
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Money is a big concern here. It just isn't reasonable for a candidate to raise enough money to challenge the sitting President in his party and have enough funds left over to be able to run a viable general election campaign. Especially since the typical donor knows this as well; aside from a few ideological diehards, why would the donors give money to an almost guaranteed to lose campaign?
It doesn't help that the sitting President would have no reason to join in on any debates. Even if there was more than one serious contender willing to debate each other, would the networks even want to air them if the sitting President wasn't there? 
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Rosaria
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Seething199 posted:
nowadays it's just 1.
Yup.
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Taliesihne
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That and 3rd party supporters expect a third party to roll out just as strong as the other two entrenched parties overnight, without anyone having to do any work.
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imaloon1
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Rosaria posted:
Seething199 posted:
nowadays it's just 1.
Yup.
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Altra_Shadowstalker
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Taliesihne posted:
You aren't alone Mo.
Your ego is though.
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Sin_of_Onin
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Moe_Nox posted:
SoO you are intelligent mate, and you have acknowledge the pieces. Why not take the next step and put them together?
You can't recognize the Dems doing nil by saying this
The fact is the left has lost what ground it had in part due to failures at the legislative level. The Dem party needs to do a lot more to sell their message to the people. It is like the entire team is sitting on their hands waiting for Obama to put the ball in the basket.
And then excuse the party for not cleaning up their own with this
It is flat out stupid to act like the party is somehow at fault for not throwing candidates at Obama and contesting him with a primary.
Leaving the mess for the other party to clean up, along with giving them blame ammo, is the cycle that needs to be broken.
Yeah cause saying they should do their job in the legislature is the same as demanding they try and oust their own standing President. You are a dumbass of epic proportions.
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Moe_Nox
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The Dems sitting on their hands waiting for the noob to do something right is weetahded.
If they had any integrity or balls they would challenge Obama to wake his ass up.
You not seeing this isn't surprising. You deserve Obama.
Most of us do not.
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Sin_of_Onin
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So like everyone assumed when they read your stupid post this is just another example of you whining like a lil bitch about Obama.
Whine about Obama all you want. Even whine about the Dem party. I don't really care. But to suggest that the Dem party is some how totally wrong for not committing political suicide just makes you look like a self absorbed dullard.
Which you are but you should try and hide it better.
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Moe_Nox
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You think running a candidate again Obama is political suicide for the Dems?
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Sin_of_Onin
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It is a meaningless punch in the face.
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F is for Fake-believe
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Moe_Nox
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Its not meaningless if a dem contender is representing the disillusioned dems.
There are plenty of lefties even just here at the OP that are not happy with Obama.
All you abused women keep saying is that Obama is better than the competition. Well, that's because you stupid bishes haven't put forth anyone else, and only repubs face him.
If you think the Dems have anyone better than Obama you are stupid for not pushing that person to run. If you think Obama is the best the dems have to offer, you are even stupidererer.
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Altra_Shadowstalker
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Well, nut up Moe. Run against Obama and tell us how it goes.
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I don't typo often, but when I do, I blame Swype.
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Sin_of_Onin
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Moe_Nox posted:
Its not meaningless if a dem contender is representing the disillusioned dems.
There are plenty of lefties even just here at the OP that are not happy with Obama.
All you abused women keep saying is that Obama is better than the competition. Well, that's because you stupid bishes haven't put forth anyone else, and only repubs face him.
If you think the Dems have anyone better than Obama you are stupid for not pushing that person to run. If you think Obama is the best the dems have to offer, you are even stupidererer.
What does being the best person have to do with politics?
Are you suggesting that the politics don't matter?
Like I said you are just a whiny lil dumbass bitch.
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Moe_Nox
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So you don't care if there are better candidates out there, you are content to simply have your party on top, even if they don't do most of the stuff they pledged.
Got it.
Like I said, most of you are like abused women, going back to the same abuse time after time.
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Taliesihne
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Moe_Nox posted:
You think running a candidate again Obama is political suicide for the Dems?
In 1976, Gerald Ford was primaried by Ronald Reagan. Ford won the nomination and lost the election.
in 1980, Ted Kennedy primaried Jimmy Carter. Carter won the nomination and lost the election.
Those are the last two examples we have of incumbent sitting presidents getting primaried.
There is a reason we are all saying it's political suicide - it is.
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Moe_Nox
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You are comparing the weakest republican and the weakest dem since the 1930's to Obama's chances in the same situation? I am not sure whether to laugh or ponder this, Tali.
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Taliesihne
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Moe_Nox posted:
You are comparing the weakest republican and the weakest dem since the 1930's to Obama's chances in the same situation? I am not sure whether to laugh or ponder this, Tali.
It has nothing to do with the candidate and everything to do with the strength of the party.
Parties are absolutely essential to winning national elections - it takes a long time to build local networks and infrastructure capable of doing all the things that need to be done to get in races, stay in races, comply with the election laws, deal with messaging and communications, handle logistics, etc., etc., etc. As much as you like to demagogague them, these are people that share common sets of beliefs and goals that band together to do the best they can to see them achieved - left or right. We like to paint pictures of the party faithful as union thugs, rahm emmanuel types and the new black panther, but the vast majority of political party members on both sides are good people that work the democratic process in an honest way and believe in our processes. Those people are how you get elected. And political parties is how you organize to get it done.
Primarying an incumbent politician does nothing but waste resources. The party consumes a huge portion of it's warchest and energy fighting each other in a primary, entering the general election in a terribly vulnerable and weakened state. This is also why it's so difficult to beat an incumbent executive.
That is the lesson taken from both the 76 and 80 elections. It's basic political strategy and pretty much gospel at this point.
I suppose I shouldn't be so terribly surprised that you know so shockingly little about the political system you constantly bleat on about being broken and needing to be replaced, but I am.
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Sea_of_inK
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I am alone in wanting the best candidate from each side to rise to the top
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The two party system is broke and stupid. OFN. As it stands, the person that is in the white house makes very little difference. All that matters is if it's a (R) or a (D)
Seriously, how often do you get to vote for a great candidate? The way things work now, pretty much never. The two party a monopoly has a stranglehold on the US government. Wouldn't it be awesome to rate 10 candidates instead of choosing 1 and making no statement at all about any of the others?
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Taliesihne
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The two party monopoly is the direct result of people who complain about it but never actually do anything about it. Put in the legwork. Get more parties going. If you want more choices, create them.
The Republican party had to fight and claw it's way into the electorate.
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Altra_Shadowstalker
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I am alone in wanting the best candidate from each side to rise to the top
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Morons posted:
Theres no difference between Bill Clinton and George W Bush.
I guess its not your fault that you have such a short attention span. And to think, the next generation is going to be worse. 
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Moe_Nox
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How much difference do you think there is between those two, Altra?
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Remnant_OBrien
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Aside from Moe's stupidity regarding a primary challenge to Obama...
The most baffling thing is that Moe doesn't get that the person Republicans think can best beat Obama is what the Republican party wants.. that or the person who will give Obama the biggest middle finger.
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Altra_Shadowstalker
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Moe_Nox posted:
How much difference do you think there is between those two, Altra?
I think there is a rather large difference between the two, however you're unable to see it because of the obstructive GOP. Put a republican in office with the same Congress and you'll see a huge difference.
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Moe_Nox
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Altra I didn't say I couldn't see a difference, but it is largely style rather than substance. Most of it comes down to what the media decides to hype.
And Redundant lol. You are the posterboy for this whole topic. You are all about the campaign win and basking in a [D] in office rather than getting the country's business done. A good campaigner is not necessarily a good CiC. They'll teach you that eventually in your other classes.
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Kjarhall
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Taliesihne posted:
Moe_Nox posted:
You think running a candidate again Obama is political suicide for the Dems?
In 1976, Gerald Ford was primaried by Ronald Reagan. Ford won the nomination and lost the election.
in 1980, Ted Kennedy primaried Jimmy Carter. Carter won the nomination and lost the election.
Those are the last two examples we have of incumbent sitting presidents getting primaried.
There is a reason we are all saying it's political suicide - it is.
This.
It's a show of weakness, which from a political standpoint, would be moronic for a party to do. That's why they call it 'suicide'.
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B_Shinkicker
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"I am alone in wanting the best candidate from each side to rise to the top until I can vote for a straight Republican ticket." -Fair and Balanced Nox
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Moe_Nox
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B_Shinkicker posted:
"I'll once again disregard that you voted for Howard Dean in the 2004 primary and Bill Richardson in the 2008 primary"
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theredkay1
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Moe_Nox posted:
I voted for Howard Dean in the 2004 primary and Bill Richardson in the 2008 primary
Even you can surely see the problem here. Right?
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Moe_Nox
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That the Dems long ago abandoned seasoned governors for well spoken idiots? Yes I can.
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