deadcactus
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Gun People: Pros and Cons of .308 vs 30-06
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Both as a hunting and marksmanship round. Discuss.
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-Mithan-
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Gun People: Pros and Cons of .308 vs 30-06
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I use both, but the 30-06 is better overall.
You can use a 30-06 on a Moose or Elk as well as a White Tail, Mule Deer or Antellope. 308 can take down a Moose or Elk (I've done it) but you wont be making any long distance shot with that. My dad killed a 1300 lbs bull moose in October with his 30-06 at 250 yards with no issue.
As well, trajectory is further and more level, faster, etc, etc.
Basically a 308 is a 30-06 bullet in a 243 shell casing.
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Greyfox_MT
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Gun People: Pros and Cons of .308 vs 30-06
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All depends on the rounds you are going to shoot.... both are excellent calibers.
Me... I'm in the process of trying to find an 1917 Enfield in 30.06
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Cawlin
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Gun People: Pros and Cons of .308 vs 30-06
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For marksmanship, the answer is: it depends.
What kind of marksmanship do you mean? Do you mean bench rest shooting at 1,000 yards or do you mean accurately hitting your deer/bear/elk at no more than 200 yards?
As for long range accuracy - either are VERY accurate. There are certain aspects of bench rest shooting that make the 308 a preferable 30 cal round to the 30-06. Both the 30-06 (in the famed Winchester Model 70 rifle - see Carlos Hathcock) and the 308 (in the equally famed Remington 700) were used as Marine Corps sniper rifles in the Korea and Viet Nam eras. Today the 308 (7.62 NATO technically) is still being used in the US Army for sniping - and 1,000 yard shots with 30 caliber rifles are definitely not off the table with either 30-06 or 308.
The 308 is technically the more accurate round than the 30-06. There were tons and tons of tests done on this by the military and despite the fact that White Feather had many confirmed kills at extreme distances and kept his Winchester model 70 zeroed at 700 yards, the 308 seems to actually do better for accuracy. Additionally, modern day long range accuracy shooting competitors use the 308 over the 30-06. Unless you are going to be a competition shooter or get into bench rest shooting, or super long range varmint (coyote) shooting either gun is functionally as accurate as you need it to be.
Now, as for the 30-06 - you can achieve one minute of angle (MOA) accuracy with it which means that group sizes are one inch per hundred yards, out to about 700 yards, but at 1,000 yards you wind up with less than 1 MOA accuracy - 14-20 inch groups. Meanwhile with a 308 you can achieve half minute of angle accuracy or even better out to 700 yards (~3 inch groups) and are at sub minute of angle accuracy at 1000 yards (7 to 8 inch groups).
Whoever said that a 308 would not make a big game kill at a few hundred yards is simply incorrect. The question of killing power is about 2 things: energy upon contact with the target (which is a product of bullet weight and velocity) and energy dispersed into the target (which is about the bullet penetration and expansion characteristics). Given that both the 30-06 and 308 use identical bullets themselves, the only variation then is the amount of powder you can put behind the bullet in the case.
The 30-06 has a bigger case so you would think it can deliver a bigger payload in terms of energy and velocity at longer ranges, and in truth it can, but that payload comes at some possibly considerable cost to accuracy. At shorter ranges, the actual advantage goes to the 308 in terms of energy delivered to the target - and of course it is more accurate. In either case, the energy delivered to the target at 250 yards is more than enough to drop any big game in North America - as with anything though, shot placement is the key and while 308 or 30-06 will kill a grizzly or a polar bear - a 300 Win mag or 338 Lapua mag or a 375 H&H mag will kill those dangerous animals more reliably. If you're going to go for dangerous game like that, imo, use a magnum caliber. You want to kill an elk out to 700 yards, 308 or 30-06 is plenty fine.
It has been said that the 30-06 can take any big game in North America with the right bullets - and that's true - but you might not be able to buy those bullets handily - but none of that issue exists if you reload your own bullets - which is mandatory if you want to shoot in accuracy competitions and all but mandatory if you wan to do 300 yard plus varmint shooting.
The 30-06 has lots of handload data for a wider variety of hunting loads than the 308 but there are quite a few for the 308 too. It's a reasonably accurate statement that the 30-06 is useful through a wider range of applications but that when you get within the range of usefulness of the 308, the 308 is superior to the 30-06. Confused yet?
Finally, there is a consideration of weight and function.
The 308 has a shorter bolt throw - this means you have to move the bolt handle a shorter distance to eject and rechamber a new round - that's because the cartridge itself is shorter than the 30-06. This also means that the 308 rifle has less material surrounding the receiver, which makes it lighter as well than the 30-06. That weight difference may be only a half pound, however, the ammo itself is also lighter than 30-06 - less brass in the shell casing.
So, shorter bolt throw means quicker repeat firing, and lighter weight means more comfortable to carry on a long day of many miles of hiking up and down mountains hunting. Yeah, 8 or 12 ounces may not seem like much, but lug it around for a good 8 or 10 miles up and down mountains in the woods and then tell me which you'd rather carry.
All in all, if I had to choose only ONE rifle for all North American Big Game hunting, it would be the 30-06. 600 yard plus shots are just not frequent enough to care that much about imo.
If I were to choose a rifle for ALL AROUND use between those two - such as big game hunting AND defending my homestead from zombies and raiders in a post zombie apocalypse world - it would be the 308 - actually the Ruger Gunsite Scout - google it.
My "go-to" Whitetail deer rifle is neither the 308 nor the 30-06 though - it's a 243. I came to a conclusion a while ago about this topic - all the "if you had to have only one gun" discussions are fun and all that, but who the hell wants to have only ONE GUN ffs? Not me - I want tons of them!
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Sith_Mauler
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Subject:
Gun People: Pros and Cons of .308 vs 30-06
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I never have used a .308, so I cant speak for it.
Owned a 30-06 remington semi auto, very nice shooting gun, its a large bullet that will reach out and touch something.
For a overall multi-use large caliber rifle I would pick up a aught six any day.
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deadcactus
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Gun People: Pros and Cons of .308 vs 30-06
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So I'm looking for a versatile bolt action rifle since I don't have a rifle right now. While it's nice to have multiple rifles for the various niches, I'll be limited to one for awhile. Right now I'm leaning toward a .308 in the form of a Remington 700 or Howa 1500 (though I'll have to look into that Ruger now).
I figure that the .308 is more forgiving on the shoulder and has cheaper ammo. This benefits me through more comfortable practice sessions at the range while offering a pretty versatile performance via the plethora of commercial ammo loads. Later if I move on to a different hunting round I still have a solid range rifle and a loaner hunting rifle.
Sound reasonable?
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Cawlin
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Gun People: Pros and Cons of .308 vs 30-06
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Yes it sounds very reasonable. You will always have a solid hunting rifle in the 308. There are just more specialty loads you can make for the 30-06 (most of those specialty loads are really for niche things like long range varmint hunting).
I have a savage 10 FP in 308 with a heavy barrel - it's a target rifle and a very good one.
I have a Winchester model 70 in 30-06 as well for a hunting rifle and I love it also.
My next big bore rifle will be one of those Ruger Gunsite Scouts - or a Garand lol, I haven't decided yet.
You might take a look also at Savage rifles if you're not into the scout rifle concept with the Ruger - the Accu Trigger on Savages is outstanding. http://www.savagearms.com
Savage has EXCELLENT accuracy and the AccuTrigger is simply the best trigger out of the box that won't cost you a premium like a custom match grade after market trigger and/or a trigger job will. Savage will stand behind their products too if there are any problems - they are most definitely a major player in the rifle world.
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ArchrikerHG
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Gun People: Pros and Cons of .308 vs 30-06
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dunno...
all I know is that the last 6 years or so I've used only a 30-06 for deer hunting, and every deer that I have shot has dropped on the spot at about 100 yards. the recoil hasn't bothered me, but I've also not had to shoot it more than once yet...Either can do the job, just get whichever has the better deal.
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Greyfox_MT
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Gun People: Pros and Cons of .308 vs 30-06
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If you aren't dead set on a bolt action in .308 caliber... you may want to check into the Marlin 308 Lever Action.
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Mangler_SC
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Gun People: Pros and Cons of .308 vs 30-06
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30-06 is an incredibly versatile round. I wholeheartedly recommend it.
.308 is also an excellent round, but given a choice, I would pick the 30-06.
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-Mithan-
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Gun People: Pros and Cons of .308 vs 30-06
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deadcactus posted:
So I'm looking for a versatile bolt action rifle since I don't have a rifle right now. While it's nice to have multiple rifles for the various niches, I'll be limited to one for awhile. Right now I'm leaning toward a .308 in the form of a Remington 700 or Howa 1500 (though I'll have to look into that Ruger now). I figure that the .308 is more forgiving on the shoulder and has cheaper ammo. This benefits me through more comfortable practice sessions at the range while offering a pretty versatile performance via the plethora of commercial ammo loads. Later if I move on to a different hunting round I still have a solid range rifle and a loaner hunting rifle. Sound reasonable?
I think your wasting your money. Â 30-06 is better overall. Â I grew up with a .243 and then ended up using my 308 and then bought a 30-06 and use that for everything now. Â Happy, no issues.Your money though.
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Mangler_SC
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Gun People: Pros and Cons of .308 vs 30-06
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Get the 30-06 and thank us later.
Also, if it'll be your only rifle for a while, get a Browning.
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Gun People: Pros and Cons of .308 vs 30-06
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Mangler_SC posted:
Get the 30-06 and thank us later. Also, if it'll be your only rifle for a while, get a Browning.
I love my Browning Lever Action .243. Â I've killed about 100 deer with it over the years. Â Great gun growing up with from the age of 12 when I could originally hunt. Â I want to buy a 30-06 version of it now.
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-Dyslexia-
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Gun People: Pros and Cons of .308 vs 30-06
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i agree with all of the important stuff of what cawlin says.
where and what are you going to be shooting? lots of options. lots of options.
if you just want to kill deer at 200yrds, buy just about anything. it will do the job fine
however, if you want to become good at this, i would suggest you buy a used something (caliber is not that important really). learn how to pick out a good used gun that has been well treated and probably can still shoot. Then learn to accurize it yourself, work up the load, etc. its a hell of a task to do the first time, but you will learn so much about guns/reloading/shooting/ballistics/everything. plus its lots of fun.
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Reapist
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Gun People: Pros and Cons of .308 vs 30-06
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Both are good and it really comes down to personal preferences. I prefer the .308 caliber.
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Cawlin
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Subject:
Gun People: Pros and Cons of .308 vs 30-06
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I should have asked the following questions along with my discussion above to help you choose:
1) What game are you looking to go after and at what kind of ranges?
2) Will you be hand loading your own cartridges and working up an optimal load with bullet weight and type and powder charge or just buying "off the shelf" ammo?
3) Do you care about “looks†and non-functional frills and do you care about resale value?
Regarding question 1, the game you’re going for matters because as noted above, the 30-06 can be loaded for a huge wide variety of game from the very large 220 grain bullets down to 110 grain bullets for long range varmint shooting. Meanwhile the 308 is only really commonly available from about 130 to 180 grain. If you’re generally going to be going for white tail dear, mule deer, elk, moose, black bear, you can find a solid cartridge in either 308 or 30-06 that you can buy to do the job.
Regarding question 2, you can expand the variability of the bullets you can use in either rifle by hand loading. Basically not all possible configurations are commercially available in bulk – yes there are custom ammo manufacturers out there, but that’s a headache and is VERY expensive. Meanwhile, if you hand load, you can create and customize loads that shoot out of YOUR rifle super accurately with all the performance profiles you need, customized to whatever your purpose is. If you aren’t going to hand load but still want to shoot moose at 300 yards OR coyotes at 700 with the same rifle, you probably need a 30-06 because there will be a greater variety of off-the-shelf ammo available for it.
Regarding question 3, it’s about form and function really. A rifle with a fine wooden stock will probably cost more than a polymer stocked rifle and thus you can probably sell a wooden stocked rifle for more than a polymer stocked rifle. However, a polymer stocked rifle will have fewer issues with the stock in changing weather conditions, and will generally be lighter than a wood stocked rifle.
Further, the question of the action comes into play – this is the trigger group and the bolt basically. Lots of “off the shelf†rifles will have utterly terrible triggers with lots of creep (movement which does not actually fire the rifle) and very heavy pull weights (this is done for liability reasons – rifle companies don’t want to get sued when they sell a rifle with too light of a trigger that someone uses irresponsibly and “accidentally†shoots someone with). A good trigger job will cost you a minimum of $75. If you want to drop in an after-market trigger group, you're looking at another couple hundred dollars.
You want a crisp clean breaking trigger of around a 3lb pull for a hunting rifle. Cold fingers and amped up pulse rates at the moment of dropping the hammer on that trophy 12 pointer mean that you don’t want the trigger too light or you run the risk of your shot breaking before you’re ACTUALLY ready for it, and too heavy triggers mean that your hand disturbs your aim/hold as you try to pull the trigger.
Smoothness of the operation of the bolt is also a factor, especially when you’re trying to fire a followup shot – generally speaking misfeeds and such will be VERY low incidence with bolt rifles – lever rifles – maybe not the case.
I carried a Marlin 336 (lever) 30-30 into the woods on my first weekend of deer season this year. At various points through the day we unloaded and reloaded our rifles for various reasons. At one point as I was reloading my rifle, something went wonky with the whole magazine and carrier assembly and as I was trying to chamber a round after loading the mag, an additional round would crowd back, blocking the ability to chamber the round or to eject it if it had been a spent round and pick up another. I eventually got it worked out but it took me a solid 10 minutes or so of fiddling around with it to get everything unloaded and reloaded again – then cycled the 3 rounds through the action just to be sure. You do NOT want that happening when you’re on stand or on a stalk and trying to make a follow up shot.
Now I have fired literally thousands of rounds through lever rifles in pistol calibers (45 colt) and large calibers (45-70), loading those tubular magazines and working the action is nothing new to me. I was perplexed by this occurrence and the next weekend I carried the Winchester model 70 (bolt) 30-06.
Anyway, back to the question of form vs. function. Savage makes the accu-trigger which basically lets you dial down your trigger pull weight to very low amounts while still maintaining a safe trigger that will not fire when the gun is jarred or dropped. It’s really REALLY good and will save you money on a trigger job down the road, I highly recommend that trigger. It’s a little weird to get used to if you’ve never fired anything like it, so make sure you go to a gun shop and check it out before you buy one.
Additionally, Savage offers a so-called “accu stock†which is basically a bedding mechanism that improves the mating of the barrel and action to the stock, thereby providing more repeatably accurate performance. Bedding the rifle is essentially mandatory for long range shooting and any sort of accuracy shooting. You can pay to do this or have it done after you buy the rifle, or you can buy a Savage that already has it done AND it’s done so that it’s basically adjustable for you to tune for optimal performance.
The “problem†if there is any with Savage is that they a) aren’t particularly pretty, and b) don’t have the resale of a Winchester or Remington. Of course, they also don’t have the initial cost of them either, and you can get a Savage with an accu-trigger and accu-stock rifle in 30-06 or 308 for about ~$500-600. Take a look at savages Model 11 FCNS/FHNS (308 “short actionâ€) or 111 FCNS/FHNS (30-06 “long actionâ€) in their “hunter†series – blued barrel polymer stock or the 16/116 FCSS/FHSS – “weather warrior†series with a stainless barrel and polymer stock.
If it sounds like I'm big on Savage rifles - I am, but no I don't work for Savage, or anyone else in the firearms industry lol. I just think that Savage is REALLY offering one of the most highly functional packages for one of the best prices out there. Oh and FYI, savage accuracy is absolutely top notch. They use button rifled barrels rather than hammer forged. Hammer forged barrels as you see in MOST "bulk" production guns are conspicuously absent amongst the ranks of the competitive match shooters.
Also, please plan on spending no less than $100 for a quality, reliable scope. There was a great article in a recent issue of Field and Stream about $100 scopes. Nothing is more sad than watching someone spend who knows how much time, energy, and money picking out the perfect rifle in the perfect caliber and then putting a $20 POS scope on it and wondering why it “doesn’t shootâ€. You don’t need a $1,000 scope, but yeah…
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Sith_Mauler
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Gun People: Pros and Cons of .308 vs 30-06
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I am not a fan of bolt action rifles.
I dont hunt/shoot at those extreme ranges where a bolt action rifle has a nice advantage.
I want to get me another Model 7400
like this
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Cawlin
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Sith_Mauler posted:
I am not a fan of bolt action rifles.
I dont hunt/shoot at those extreme ranges where a bolt action rifle has a nice advantage.
I want to get me another Model 7400
like this
Unfortunately, semi-autos aren't legal for hunting in all states,e.g. Pennsylvania.
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Sith_Mauler
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Gun People: Pros and Cons of .308 vs 30-06
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Cawlin posted:
Sith_Mauler posted:
I am not a fan of bolt action rifles.
I dont hunt/shoot at those extreme ranges where a bolt action rifle has a nice advantage.
I want to get me another Model 7400
like this
Unfortunately, semi-autos aren't legal for hunting in all states such as Pennsylvania.
Sorry I forgot there are gun "commie" states that exist. 
Here I can strap up a ar-15 with a 30 round mag if I want.
although using .223 to hunt here you have to be using a 55 grain or larger.
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Cawlin
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Gun People: Pros and Cons of .308 vs 30-06
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Sith_Mauler posted:
Cawlin posted:
Sith_Mauler posted:
I am not a fan of bolt action rifles.
I dont hunt/shoot at those extreme ranges where a bolt action rifle has a nice advantage.
I want to get me another Model 7400
like this
Unfortunately, semi-autos aren't legal for hunting in all states such as Pennsylvania.
Sorry I forgot there are gun "commie" states that exist.
Here I can strap up a ar-15 with a 30 round mag if I want.
although using .223 to hunt here you have to be using a 55 grain or larger.
Well in PA, at least with respect to hunting, it's not about "gun control" stuff but more about being "sporting". There's a pretty strong "old guard" mentality with respect to hunting sportsmanship. During muzzle loader season in PA, in line muzzle loaders are not allowed either, I'm not even sure if you are limited to flintlock though or whether you can use percussion capped rifles during that season though. This presents a pretty significant challenge to left handers like myself since shooting a cap and ball or flint lock as a lefty, with the lock in your face as it would be on a right-handed rifle is just a huge pain - and left handed flintlocks/percussion cap muzzle loaders are pretty rare.
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Gun People: Pros and Cons of .308 vs 30-06
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Has anyone here shot the Leverrevolution ammo yet?
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Cawlin
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Reapist posted:
Has anyone here shot the Leverrevolution ammo yet?
I got some for my 30-30 for Christmas but haven't gotten a chance to get out and check it out yet. I've got to figure out what happened with that magazine issue before I trust that rifle in the woods again.
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Gun People: Pros and Cons of .308 vs 30-06
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Cawlin posted:
Sith_Mauler posted:
Cawlin posted:
[quote=Sith_Mauler]I am not a fan of bolt action rifles.
I dont hunt/shoot at those extreme ranges where a bolt action rifle has a nice advantage.
I want to get me another Model 7400
like this
Unfortunately, semi-autos aren't legal for hunting in all states such as Pennsylvania.
Sorry I forgot there are gun "commie" states that exist.
Here I can strap up a ar-15 with a 30 round mag if I want.
although using .223 to hunt here you have to be using a 55 grain or larger.
Well in PA, at least with respect to hunting, it's not about "gun control" stuff but more about being "sporting". There's a pretty strong "old guard" mentality with respect to hunting sportsmanship. During muzzle loader season in PA, in line muzzle loaders are not allowed either, I'm not even sure if you are limited to flintlock though or whether you can use percussion capped rifles during that season though. This presents a pretty significant challenge to left handers like myself since shooting a cap and ball or flint lock as a lefty, with the lock in your face as it would be on a right-handed rifle is just a huge pain - and left handed flintlocks/percussion cap muzzle loaders are pretty rare.[/quote]
I lived in PA for 3 years, PA tends to lean to the liberal side of things.
Even though you wont get one person that lives there to admit it.
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Reapist
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Subject:
Gun People: Pros and Cons of .308 vs 30-06
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Cawlin posted:
Reapist posted:
Has anyone here shot the Leverrevolution ammo yet?
I got some for my 30-30 for Christmas but haven't gotten a chance to get out and check it out yet. I've got to figure out what happened with that magazine issue before I trust that rifle in the woods again.
I have a side eject Marlin 30-30 and a scope that can go on it. I'd like to get some and try it. My uncle gave me the gun and it misfired 75% or the time. I took the stock off and found someone had put it together with the spring seat off its mount. It should fire nice now.
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Subject:
Gun People: Pros and Cons of .308 vs 30-06
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I'll second the positive reviews of the Savage Bolt action rifles.
I have a Savage bull barrel .223 and it shoots awesome. In fact I was at the range one time with a guy who was so impressed, he went out and got one within a week.
I also have a bolt action .270 (not a Savage) which wasn't discussed here. Its a great round and is supposed to shoot flatter than .30-06 or .308. The only downside really to this round is that it doesn't come in quite as many options as the others.
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Cawlin
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Subject:
Gun People: Pros and Cons of .308 vs 30-06
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Sith_Mauler posted:
Cawlin posted:
Well in PA, at least with respect to hunting, it's not about "gun control" stuff but more about being "sporting". There's a pretty strong "old guard" mentality with respect to hunting sportsmanship. During muzzle loader season in PA, in line muzzle loaders are not allowed either, I'm not even sure if you are limited to flintlock though or whether you can use percussion capped rifles during that season though. This presents a pretty significant challenge to left handers like myself since shooting a cap and ball or flint lock as a lefty, with the lock in your face as it would be on a right-handed rifle is just a huge pain - and left handed flintlocks/percussion cap muzzle loaders are pretty rare.
I lived in PA for 3 years, PA tends to lean to the liberal side of things.
Even though you wont get one person that lives there to admit it.
Oh I'll admit that in a second and I've lived here most of my life. The hunting thing is all about sportsmanship and not about gun control.
With that said though, PA definitely tends to be a bit more liberal on some things than I'd like. Philadelphia keeps pushing Harrisburg to adopt draconian Peoples Republik of New Jersey/Kalifornia style gun control (ban) policies, and Harrisburg has pushed back so far.
If you look at maps of gun control issues, you see PA is like a little oasis here in the Northeast, surrounded on all sides (with the exception of WV) by gungrabber states...
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Gun People: Pros and Cons of .308 vs 30-06
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I love you guys. Also I wish mule deer were as easy to hunt as white tail ive taken 100 yard shots with my bow and arrow cause thats as close as i could get at the time
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Gun People: Pros and Cons of .308 vs 30-06
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Bolt actions are theoretically more accurate than semi-autos.
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Cawlin
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Subject:
Gun People: Pros and Cons of .308 vs 30-06
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Mangler_SC posted:
Bolt actions are theoretically more accurate than semi-autos.
While true, the level of accuracy in the modern era of machining and manufacturing for semi-auto, lever, pump, or bolt rifles doesn't matter for the vast majority of hunting applications.
In other words, all of those are plenty accurate enough to kill a deer out to 300 yards or so as long as the shooter himself is up to the task. It's when you really get out to long ranges where things like tolerances and so forth of bolt rifles pull ahead of others.
Nonetheless, semi-auto 50 caliber sniper rifles are certainly capable of 2500 yard accuracy so it's nothing inherent to the mechanism - it's about the tolerances of mass produced manufacturing.
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Gun People: Pros and Cons of .308 vs 30-06
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Hence "theoretically" was used.
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Such an informative thread.
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Subject:
Gun People: Pros and Cons of .308 vs 30-06
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Cawlin posted:
Reapist posted:
Has anyone here shot the Leverrevolution ammo yet?
I got some for my 30-30 for Christmas but haven't gotten a chance to get out and check it out yet. I've got to figure out what happened with that magazine issue before I trust that rifle in the woods again.
Got 2 boxes sitting on the shelf. But had some things come up during hunting season and just never got to head to the range to sight my Marlin in with them.
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deadcactus
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Subject:
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So I just had a thought. I'm new to rifles and coming from handguns. There are different handgun loads, but for the most part (excluding P+) the same rounds in any given caliber seem to kick relatively similarly and I think I transferred that concept to rifles without thinking. I shot a .308 and 30-06 a little while back, but only one kind of round in each. The 30-06 beat the hell out of my shoulder and has been a large reason for my preference toward a .308 since I couldn't imagine actually putting a significant number of rounds through the 30-06 on a range day.
But with the wide range of rifle rounds I'm guessing I could find a round loaded to a more comfortable kick for target practice, no?
1) What game are you looking to go after and at what kind of ranges?
Probably mostly deer, but it would be nice (but not mandatory) to go up to bison or moose without having to worry about borrowing a rifle or buying a new one. For ranges, I really don't know since I'm not familiar with what typical hunting distances are. I'm more interested in stalking than stand hunting though if that helps.
2) Will you be hand loading your own cartridges and working up an optimal load with bullet weight and type and powder charge or just buying "off the shelf" ammo?
Initially, off the shelf but I would load my own when I get some space for the equipment.
3) Do you care about “looks†and non-functional frills and do you care about resale value?
I don't want to put money in an flat-out ugly rifle, but I'm not looking for a work of art. Definitely prefer synthetic stocks to wood. Resale value is a plus, but the plan is to buy a solid rifle to form a permanent part of my collection so it's not a big issue. I don't mind paying a little extra for better resale though.
-Dyslexia- posted:
i agree with all of the important stuff of what cawlin says.
where and what are you going to be shooting? lots of options. lots of options.
if you just want to kill deer at 200yrds, buy just about anything. it will do the job fine
however, if you want to become good at this, i would suggest you buy a used something (caliber is not that important really). learn how to pick out a good used gun that has been well treated and probably can still shoot. Then learn to accurize it yourself, work up the load, etc. its a hell of a task to do the first time, but you will learn so much about guns/reloading/shooting/ballistics/everything. plus its lots of fun.
I've been keeping an eye out for a used rifle, but not fond of the offerings around here.
But another idea I was playing with is putting together my own AR-15. Buying the lower from an FFL, ordering the parts off the internet, and then learning to build and fine-tune the whole thing. Gives me something to practice shooting with, a small foundation in doing gun work, and enough power to hunt pigs for now. Then look into a 30-06 for deer+ hunting when I've got things down with that...
[Side note: Sorry I missed your message, Dys.]
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Cawlin
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Subject:
Gun People: Pros and Cons of .308 vs 30-06
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deadcactus posted:
So I just had a thought. I'm new to rifles and coming from handguns. There are different handgun loads, but for the most part (excluding P+) the same rounds in any given caliber seem to kick relatively similarly and I think I transferred that concept to rifles without thinking. I shot a .308 and 30-06 a little while back, but only one kind of round in each. The 30-06 beat the hell out of my shoulder and has been a large reason for my preference toward a .308 since I couldn't imagine actually putting a significant number of rounds through the 30-06 on a range day.
Recoil is a product of a lot of things that can be modified. Obviously the first factor is the cartridge itself, the combination of powder and bullet weight are what provide the force. However, rifles with a lot of weight will counteract this as that weight has its own inertia - of course a hunting rifle is something you want to be light, so we'll rule out "heavy" rifles - you want to be at no more than 8 lbs with a scope mounted ESPECIALLY for a stalking rifle. I'm not sure how much hunting you've done but when you're on a long walk or stalk over who knows what kind of terrain, you begin to feel every ounce you're carrying.
Additionally the action of the rifle can go towards eating the recoil a bit - semi-autos will use some of the gas from the round to cycle the action which will make them kick a bit less, but of course semi-auto rifles aren't legal for hunting everywhere either, so that's a factor, and besides you said you wanted a bolt rifle soo...
The next factor is a recoil pad on the buttstock. These can go a LONG LONG way towards making a rifle more comfortable to shoot and I highly recommend them for any 30 caliber and up rifle. The trick is to get one that doesn't change your stock length (or length of pull) too much so that the rifle still fits comfortably and you can reach the trigger with the proper wrist and hand angle when you mount the gun. You do not want your trigger-hand wrist to be bent very much - ideally it will be straight with your trigger finger straight for all but the most distal two knuckles - this will enable you to have the straightest trigger pull with the least tendency to disturb your hold... anyway, you will know a poorly fitted rifle when you shoulder one and it's not likely that a recoil pad will really mess you up.
On top of that, there are little pads you can buy to slip into the shoulder of your hunting vest or jacket. My own hunting jacket is by Browning and has these little pockets into which you can slip these little gel pads... There are also recoil pads you can get that buckle on for long time at the range when shooting heavy calibers, especially for magnum loads... I carry one of these in my range bag by the way, but haven't felt the need to use it on either the 308 or the 30-06. The last time I used it was when I was shooting my brother in law's 7mm magnum rifle...
With all of that said, the 30-06 and 308 will both kick similarly with similar loads and you can address them both pretty satisfactorily with simple modifications if the rifles themselves don't come already equipped with a good recoil pad. My AT&T gun (Savage 10 FP in 308) weighs about 11 pounds with its target barrel and heavy McMillan stock and Leupold MKIV scope and it's got about an inch thick recoil pad kicks far far less than my Winchester model 70 30-06 with no recoil pad even though I routinely shoot heavier loads out of my 308 than my 30-06.
By way of another example, my Glock 21 (45 ACP pistol) kicks a lot less than my Glock 23 (40 S&W pistol). The 21 is a larger gun with a good bit more weight to it and even though the 45 ACP rounds pack much more recoil inherently, the gun bucks less in my hand by virtue of the combination of its weight and the heavier main spring that works the action.
deadcactus posted:
But with the wide range of rifle rounds I'm guessing I could find a round loaded to a more comfortable kick for target practice, no?
Yes you surely can. You will very likely be practicing just to gain proficiency with the rifle, with very cheap bulk ammo that will have a low-ish bullet weight and a moderate powder charge but it is important to remember that you will absolutely want to zero your rifle in preparation for any hunting with the same type of round you will use when hunting.
deadcactus posted:
1) What game are you looking to go after and at what kind of ranges?
Probably mostly deer, but it would be nice (but not mandatory) to go up to bison or moose without having to worry about borrowing a rifle or buying a new one. For ranges, I really don't know since I'm not familiar with what typical hunting distances are. I'm more interested in stalking than stand hunting though if that helps.
Probably 80% of the deer taken in Pennsylvania are shot at fewer than 100 yards, but that's because the terrain in PA is very mountainous or heavily wooded. If you go to the midwest or happen to find yourself on a farm, you could easily be looking at 200 or 300 yard shots, but the point is, you're not talking about 700 yard shots on coyotes and such. 30-06 or 308 will certainly do the trick.
deadcactus posted:
2) Will you be hand loading your own cartridges and working up an optimal load with bullet weight and type and powder charge or just buying "off the shelf" ammo?
Initially, off the shelf but I would load my own when I get some space for the equipment.
3) Do you care about “looks†and non-functional frills and do you care about resale value?
I don't want to put money in an flat-out ugly rifle, but I'm not looking for a work of art. Definitely prefer synthetic stocks to wood. Resale value is a plus, but the plan is to buy a solid rifle to form a permanent part of my collection so it's not a big issue. I don't mind paying a little extra for better resale though.
If you buy a Winchester, you can always sell it for more than you could sell a Savage, though you won't pay as much for a Savage as you will for a Winchester - as for percentage of purchase price retained in resale, I can't speak to that, but in the end, resale value is also about things like a pretty wood stock. Savage certainly isn't a "no-name" brand and in recent years is gaining respect and popularity in the industry - ESPECIALLY as the manufacturers like Winchester have been riding on reputation for the most part while quality has gone down.
deadcactus posted:
-Dyslexia- posted:
i agree with all of the important stuff of what cawlin says.
where and what are you going to be shooting? lots of options. lots of options.
if you just want to kill deer at 200yrds, buy just about anything. it will do the job fine
however, if you want to become good at this, i would suggest you buy a used something (caliber is not that important really). learn how to pick out a good used gun that has been well treated and probably can still shoot. Then learn to accurize it yourself, work up the load, etc. its a hell of a task to do the first time, but you will learn so much about guns/reloading/shooting/ballistics/everything. plus its lots of fun.
I've been keeping an eye out for a used rifle, but not fond of the offerings around here.
But another idea I was playing with is putting together my own AR-15. Buying the lower from an FFL, ordering the parts off the internet, and then learning to build and fine-tune the whole thing. Gives me something to practice shooting with, a small foundation in doing gun work, and enough power to hunt pigs for now. Then look into a 30-06 for deer+ hunting when I've got things down with that...
[Side note: Sorry I missed your message, Dys.]
I don't know too much about hog hunting, but I just watched a show last night "Sons of Guns" and they were building a custom rifle for feral hog hunting in the Louisiana country side. There's an eradication program underway in LA for these hogs which are destroying farmland at alarming rates. Anyway, the guys at Red Jacket Firearms built a custom "Hog Killer" rifle for chasing down 400-600 lb "hogzillas" - and they made it in 458 SOCOM caliber lol. That caliber was designed for use in specialized AR-15s with a special receiver/upper and barrel of course - in short - I don't think you want to be going after wild boars with a 223... I believe you'd be in good shape with a 308 or 30-06 there too, if not a 45-70 or a 458 SOCOM
Building ARs seems like a fun task and I would like to do it some day. I don't even own an AR-15 myself but I suppose I will some day, there certainly LOTS AND LOTS of sources for information about how to do so. If you're really interested in that, I would suggest checking out this website http://www.ar15.com and the associated forums and put your questions to them. Incidentally, an AR10 is a nice little option too - basically a 30 cal (7.62x51/308) AR15.
By all your descriptions, and now that I understand you're not trying to do competition accuracy shooting, I think you'd be better off with a 30-06 than a 308 because you will simply have more off-the-shelf ammo choices and the accuracy of a 30-06 is PLENTY fine for your purposes. The recoil really isn't any worse than comparable rounds in a 308 - it's all about managing it. Additionally, functional accuracy with a 30-06 is just fine for hunting purposes, it really is. You get minute of angle accuracy out to 600 yards or more - that's excellent. I pulled my 30-06 out for deer season this year and hadn't shot it in a year or more, and the first three cold-barrel shots I fired made a group size of just over 3/4ths of an inch at 100 yards. That's about a 2 inch group at 300 yards - and that's plenty fine for hunting.
Oh and I should have mentioned this earlier but, you can get all the fundamentals down with rifle shooting with a 22 that you can pick up for under $200 (Ruger 10/22) and you can shoot 500 rounds at the range in a day without even feeling it the next day AND for the cost of about one box of 20 rounds of either 308 or 30-06... On top of that, you can customize Ruger 10/22s out the wazoo - basically if you can imagine it, someone has created a custom addon for a 10/22 to make it lol...
Anyway, happy hunting. If I were buying a new hunting rifle today, I would be buying a Savage, it's not just a great deal for the money, it's a great rifle.
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Sith_Mauler
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Subject:
Gun People: Pros and Cons of .308 vs 30-06
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I saw this last night on Sons of Guns and I want one.
.458 socom
thats a brick coming out of a gun pretty much
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Cawlin
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Sith_Mauler posted:
I saw this last night on Sons of Guns and I want one.
.458 socom
thats a brick coming out of a gun pretty much
Yep, watched the same show, that was badass!
500 grains lol!! My 45-70 hand loads are only 405 grainers!
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regulator_cracka
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The Hogzilla gun was pretty sweet! I can not wait to see their new "AK47" competitor AR they are currently making.
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regulator_cracka posted:
The Hogzilla gun was pretty sweet! I can not wait to see their new "AK47" competitor AR they are currently making.
Yeah, I'm curious about that too. I doubt they will go into the specific details of what they've done to it to make it more reliable on the actual show, but if they do, I will be VERY pleased. The whole reliability issue is one of the reasons I don't own an AR-15 today - I just don't want to mess around with a rifle that's THAT finnicky.
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Cawlin posted:
regulator_cracka posted:
The Hogzilla gun was pretty sweet! I can not wait to see their new "AK47" competitor AR they are currently making.
Yeah, I'm curious about that too. The whole reliability issue is one of the reasons I don't own an AR-15 today - I just don't want to mess around with a rifle that's THAT finnicky.
And it is about time we made a better gun than the ruskies did 60 damn years ago!
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regulator_cracka posted:
The Hogzilla gun was pretty sweet! I can not wait to see their new "AK47" competitor AR they are currently making.
I was impressed that a small shop was producing these new designs, until I googled .458 socom, you can actually buy a complete upper that converts a normal ar to a "hogzilla" gun.
a gas piston operated AR has already been done with the H&K M416.
so I am a bit disappoint now.
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Cawlin posted:
Sith_Mauler posted:
I saw this last night on Sons of Guns and I want one.
.458 socom
thats a brick coming out of a gun pretty much
Yep, watched the same show, that was badass!
500 grains lol!! My 45-70 hand loads are only 405 grainers!
I've handloaded 535 grain rounds for my Sharps 45-70.
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Sith_Mauler posted:
regulator_cracka posted:
The Hogzilla gun was pretty sweet! I can not wait to see their new "AK47" competitor AR they are currently making.
I was impressed that a small shop was producing these new designs, until I googled .458 socom, you can actually buy a complete upper that converts a normal ar to a "hogzilla" gun.
a gas piston operated AR has already been done with the H&K M416.
so I am a bit disappoint now.
Oreally, but did they have Ted F%^&ing Nugent? I think not.
/game set match. /bow.
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Sith_Mauler
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regulator_cracka posted:
Sith_Mauler posted:
regulator_cracka posted:
The Hogzilla gun was pretty sweet! I can not wait to see their new "AK47" competitor AR they are currently making.
I was impressed that a small shop was producing these new designs, until I googled .458 socom, you can actually buy a complete upper that converts a normal ar to a "hogzilla" gun.
a gas piston operated AR has already been done with the H&K M416.
so I am a bit disappoint now.
Oreally, but did they have Ted F%^&ing Nugent? I think not.
/game set match. /bow.
Valid point.
That is one person I would love to meet.
Who doesnt love Uncle Ted?
Rock and Roll and Guns.
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Cawlin
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regulator_cracka posted:
Cawlin posted:
regulator_cracka posted:
The Hogzilla gun was pretty sweet! I can not wait to see their new "AK47" competitor AR they are currently making.
Yeah, I'm curious about that too. The whole reliability issue is one of the reasons I don't own an AR-15 today - I just don't want to mess around with a rifle that's THAT finnicky.
And it is about time we made a better gun than the ruskies did 60 damn years ago!
Well "better" is arguable since the M-16 can do things that no AK could do - such as shoot accurately to 600 yards, and the caliber itself has some interesting characteristics about it, BUT, when all is said and done, if I have to be stomping around in the jungle and am not worried about the cost of outfitting a million guys, I want an AK and not an M-16. There's a good reason why M-14s are still in service for lots of applications... in short, I agree lol.
vn_anon63xxx posted:
Cawlin posted:
Sith_Mauler posted:
I saw this last night on Sons of Guns and I want one.
.458 socom
thats a brick coming out of a gun pretty much
Yep, watched the same show, that was badass!
500 grains lol!! My 45-70 hand loads are only 405 grainers!
I've handloaded 535 grain rounds for my Sharps 45-70.
Haha! Sweet! Don't you just love that low thud of the recoil from the 45-70?
Sith_Mauler posted:
regulator_cracka posted:
The Hogzilla gun was pretty sweet! I can not wait to see their new "AK47" competitor AR they are currently making.
I was impressed that a small shop was producing these new designs, until I googled .458 socom, you can actually buy a complete upper that converts a normal ar to a "hogzilla" gun.
a gas piston operated AR has already been done with the H&K M416.
so I am a bit disappoint now.
Yep, it's pretty much an off-the-shelf addon - until you go messing with 2.5 foot long suppressors and have to remachine the gas block and wind up messing up the geometry of the receiver lol...
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Cawlin
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Sith_Mauler posted:
regulator_cracka posted:
Oreally, but did they have Ted F%^&ing Nugent? I think not.
/game set match. /bow.
Valid point.
That is one person I would love to meet.
Who doesnt love Uncle Ted?
Rock and Roll and Guns.
Sweaty Teddy is definitely a cool guy. I don't know if you ever watched his hunting show but he's definitely got his own sort of interpretation of the world. I'd love to sit down and do some drinking with that guy, or just get to go hunting with him for a weekend lol!
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Cawlin posted:
Yep, it's pretty much an off-the-shelf addon - until you go messing with 2.5 foot long suppressors and have to remachine the gas block and wind up messing up the geometry of the receiver lol...
I dont feel like paying the money to the atf for permits to own silenced guns, well not yet at least.
I already dropped $250 for a SBR stamp so I could add a collapsible stock to a gsg-5p(hk clone) and take it out in public without any legal issues.
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regulator_cracka
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Cawlin posted:
Well "better" is arguable since the M-16 can do things that no AK could do - such as shoot accurately to 600 yards, and the caliber itself has some interesting characteristics about it, BUT, when all is said and done, if I have to be stomping around in the jungle and am not worried about the cost of outfitting a million guys, I want an AK and not an M-16. There's a good reason why M-14s are still in service for lots of applications... in short, I agree lol.
Valid point!
Yes, hanging out with Ted would be a trip. Yes, I have seen a few of his hunting shows.
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vn_anon63xxx
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I shot a 375 lb sow with my Sharps. It's a heavy rifle, but it's extremely accurate. I can kill just about anything with it.
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vn_anon63xxx posted:
I shot a 375 lb sow with my Sharps. It's a heavy rifle, but it's extremely accurate. I can kill just about anything with it.
Oh man that's awesome! I have given pretty serious thought to taking my 45-70 out for bear hunting, but that will be a while before it happens I think!
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This year is dedicated to fishing. I have three trips planned. An 8 day for tuna in June. Then in November I'm doing a week of salmon and steelhead. I'm also taking the wife to Hawaii at some point so I'll do a couple days targeting Ahi when I'm there.
So, there's not much time for hunting this year. Will take the dog out 4-5 times for pheasant, quail and chukar.
2013 is scheduled to be my hunting year. Planning an Elk hunt to New Mexico and several boar hunts here in CA.
2014 will be another year of fishing.
2015 will be the Alaska hunting trip of a lifetime.
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vn_anon63xxx posted:
This year is dedicated to fishing. I have three trips planned. An 8 day for tuna in June. Then in November I'm doing a week of salmon and steelhead. I'm also taking the wife to Hawaii at some point so I'll do a couple days targeting Ahi when I'm there.
So, there's not much time for hunting this year. Will take the dog out 4-5 times for pheasant, quail and chukar.
2013 is scheduled to be my hunting year. Planning an Elk hunt to New Mexico and several boar hunts here in CA.
2014 will be another year of fishing.
2015 will be the Alaska hunting trip of a lifetime.
/envy!
My dad is an extremely avid and fairly well traveled and accomplished fly-fisherman. He has been trying to get me to go with him to Bristol Bay Lodge in Alaska for a trip for years now - apparently through his old job at an outfitter's shop, he has a reasonable relationship with the folks at Bristol Bay such that if he personally books people on something like 10 trips he gets a freebie himself - he's done two trips there paying only his own airfare. The kind of trips you're planning put me in mind of this.
I am most definitely jealous! Happy fishing and hunting to you.
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I don't believe in living with regret.
Go with your dad. Just do it.
No regrets.
I wish I had taken up tuna fishing years ago. It's the most fun you can have with your clothes on.
http://www.americananglersportfishing.com/fishing_reports.htm
This is the boat I'm taking in June. Look at the pictures from their last trip.
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Not sure where you are planning on boar hunting in California but there are some HUGE ones around the Coalinga area.
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Achim_LC posted:
Not sure where you are planning on boar hunting in California but there are some HUGE ones around the Coalinga area.
A buddy of mine grew up in Paso Robles. All of his childhood friends have giant private ranches forus to camp/hunt at. Boars are like vermin up there. The tags come in packs of 5 for around $50.
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vn_anon63xxx posted:
Achim_LC posted:
Not sure where you are planning on boar hunting in California but there are some HUGE ones around the Coalinga area.
A buddy of mine grew up in Paso Robles. All of his childhood friends have giant private ranches forus to camp/hunt at. Boars are like vermin up there. The tags come in packs of 5 for around $50.
Yeah, tags are cheap in California. I used to hunt them on the ranches around Coalinga. The ranchers will often let you hunt their lands for free just to get rid of them.
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vn_anon63xxx posted:
I don't believe in living with regret.
Go with your dad. Just do it.
No regrets.
I wish I had taken up tuna fishing years ago. It's the most fun you can have with your clothes on.
http://www.americananglersportfishing.com/fishing_reports.htm
This is the boat I'm taking in June. Look at the pictures from their last trip.
Good advice and again, I am jealous of your fishing trip coming up!
Maybe not this year but the next I will try to plan an Alaska fly fishing trip with my Dad for salmon...
Re: boar hunting - this is definitely something I would like to do - is the meat from these worth butchering and eating or do people just turn them over to homeless shelters and whatnot?
Did you ever hear of or see these guys who go boar hunting with spears and stuff? Sounds like a bucket list item for the crazy brave or the insane...
http://www.coldsteel.com/boarspear.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeii7r_ySiA
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Boar meat is REALLY gamey. If you get a smaller boar the meat is pretty good and you can always make sausage out of it which helps the flavor. The big boars taste like ass IMHO.
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The one I shot was really tasty. The hams, pork chops and sausage was exceptional. Not very gamey at all.
Of course, I shot it through the heart and both lungs with 45-70 hotload. That may have helped. Even the guys at the ranch were impressed with the shot.
I can't really take credit for it. It was only 150 yards. The Sharps is so damn accurate that 150 yards is not even fair. 400 yards open sights is not even fair. You have to get out to 500 yards for it to be a challenge.
I can take a novice out to the range and have them hitting 400 yards with only four rounds. I've done it maybe 4-5 times.
It is that accurate.
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Cawlin posted:
That looks remarkably phallic when squished down.
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vn_anon63xxx posted:
The one I shot was really tasty. The hams, pork chops and sausage was exceptional. Not very gamey at all.
Of course, I shot it through the heart and both lungs with 45-70 hotload. That may have helped. Even the guys at the ranch were impressed with the shot.
I can't really take credit for it. It was only 150 yards. The Sharps is so damn accurate that 150 yards is not even fair. 400 yards open sights is not even fair. You have to get out to 500 yards for it to be a challenge.
I can take a novice out to the range and have them hitting 400 yards with only four rounds. I've done it maybe 4-5 times.
It is that accurate.
I believe that about the rifle. For 400 yards, did you shoot it off of a rest or bipod or something?
The issue I have with open/iron sights at longer than 100 yards or so is that I can't make out a small enough target on the animal given the size of the front sight post/ring and how small an animal like a boar would look relative to the post/ring. Even the peep sights I use on the 50' indoor 22 matches I will be shooting this winter make a dime sized bullseye seem like the head of a pin relative to the front sight ring.
The bead on the top of the post on the semi-buckhorn sights on my 45-70 pretty much covers 12 inches at 100 yards...
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Achim_LC posted:
Not sure where you are planning on boar hunting in California but there are some HUGE ones around the Coalinga area.
you could probably hire the mythbusters to shoot them with their cannon haha
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Cawlin posted:
vn_anon63xxx posted:
The one I shot was really tasty. The hams, pork chops and sausage was exceptional. Not very gamey at all.
Of course, I shot it through the heart and both lungs with 45-70 hotload. That may have helped. Even the guys at the ranch were impressed with the shot.
I can't really take credit for it. It was only 150 yards. The Sharps is so damn accurate that 150 yards is not even fair. 400 yards open sights is not even fair. You have to get out to 500 yards for it to be a challenge.
I can take a novice out to the range and have them hitting 400 yards with only four rounds. I've done it maybe 4-5 times.
It is that accurate.
I believe that about the rifle. For 400 yards, did you shoot it off of a rest or bipod or something?
The issue I have with open/iron sights at longer than 100 yards or so is that I can't make out a small enough target on the animal given the size of the front sight post/ring and how small an animal like a boar would look relative to the post/ring. Even the peep sights I use on the 50' indoor 22 matches I will be shooting this winter make a dime sized bullseye seem like the head of a pin relative to the front sight ring.
The bead on the top of the post on the semi-buckhorn sights on my 45-70 pretty much covers 12 inches at 100 yards...
Never had a problem. Creedmoor sights with a front bead.
The hard part with more than 400 yards is keeping the barrel level. It's easy to roll the barrel to one side.
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vn_anon63xxx posted:
Cawlin posted:
vn_anon63xxx posted:
The one I shot was really tasty. The hams, pork chops and sausage was exceptional. Not very gamey at all.
Of course, I shot it through the heart and both lungs with 45-70 hotload. That may have helped. Even the guys at the ranch were impressed with the shot.
I can't really take credit for it. It was only 150 yards. The Sharps is so damn accurate that 150 yards is not even fair. 400 yards open sights is not even fair. You have to get out to 500 yards for it to be a challenge.
I can take a novice out to the range and have them hitting 400 yards with only four rounds. I've done it maybe 4-5 times.
It is that accurate.
I believe that about the rifle. For 400 yards, did you shoot it off of a rest or bipod or something?
The issue I have with open/iron sights at longer than 100 yards or so is that I can't make out a small enough target on the animal given the size of the front sight post/ring and how small an animal like a boar would look relative to the post/ring. Even the peep sights I use on the 50' indoor 22 matches I will be shooting this winter make a dime sized bullseye seem like the head of a pin relative to the front sight ring.
The bead on the top of the post on the semi-buckhorn sights on my 45-70 pretty much covers 12 inches at 100 yards...
Never had a problem. Creedmoor sights with a front bead.
The hard part with more than 400 yards is keeping the barrel level. It's easy to roll the barrel to one side.
Yeah, I'm going to be putting some peep sights on my Winchester 92 (45 colt lol) and my Winchester 1886 (45-70) and will see if that helps things any. I probably just need a touch up lasik job on my eyes since the last time I had them corrected was in my early 30s...
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Sith, I would not recommend that 7400 semi-auto. Go with a bolt action. I have a 7400 that I'll never take into the field again. I use a Savage bolt action 06 w/their Accu-Trigger. Try one, you'll like it.
Really, accuracy issues aside, consider the real need for semi-auto anyway. Unless you have Russians marching down your neighborhood street, you only need one shot at a time.
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There's boar in the mountains near Morgan Hill around the Anderson Lake area.
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Interestingly enough, my friend just sent me this link today. Here he is shooting a Savage 110 FP in 308 caliber (same rifle I have) 600 yards and hitting 12" square plates:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSZpx6Fu4Cc&list=UU5XsVJlregXP8zAjyCdXa2Q&index=1&feature=plcp
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