tenkly
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Occam's Razor is a much better rule to live by than any number of "Commandments" or other dogma.
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When you believe in something you cannot, at the same time. believe anything else that would call into question the original belief making you blind to all kinds of possibilities. So, if you believe in UFOs, against all the mathematical improbabilities that counter that belief, you are blind to any other possibility for those lights in the sky. I'd rather look at both options, apply Occam's Razor and go from there. It's served me well for 25 years.
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cherrim
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Occam's Razor is a much better rule to live by than any number of "Commandments" or other dogma.
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Occam's Razor compares descriptive explanations according to their respective plausibilities.
I do not see how it could ever result in any moral imperative. As such I don't get the "rule to live by" aspect of your OP.
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Yukishiro1
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Occam's Razor is a much better rule to live by than any number of "Commandments" or other dogma.
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"When asked by a non-Jew to relate all the Torah had to say while standing on one foot, Hillel replied, "Do not unto your neighbor what you would not have him do unto you; this is the whole Law; the rest is commentary." "
That always seemed good enough for me.
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IMHO
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Occam's Razor is a much better rule to live by than any number of "Commandments" or other dogma.
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cherrim posted:
As such I don't get the "rule to live by" aspect of your OP.
He's 25. That about says it all. 
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Sin_of_Onin
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Occam's Razor is a much better rule to live by than any number of "Commandments" or other dogma.
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Most morality can be summed up by a claim of what comes around goes around. This is usually countered by someone pointing out that this is total BS because hey look at those people in power and how lame they are. The clear conclusion is that life is not fair but we wish it was and it would be best if we all just acted like it was.
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tenkly
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Occam's Razor is a much better rule to live by than any number of "Commandments" or other dogma.
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cherrim posted:
Occam's Razor compares descriptive explanations according to their respective plausibilities.
I do not see how it could ever result in any moral imperative. As such I don't get the "rule to live by" aspect of your OP.
It's not really about morality per say, but more about just because you were told X by a "higher power" then it has to be true.
It's a way to say, keep an open mind as long as there is logic and reason behind it.
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IMHO
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Occam's Razor is a much better rule to live by than any number of "Commandments" or other dogma.
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It;s illogical NOT to believe in a higherpower.
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tenkly
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Occam's Razor is a much better rule to live by than any number of "Commandments" or other dogma.
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It's not illogical not to believe in deities. Anyone who believes in one is automatically less driven by logic than someone who doesn't.
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IMHO
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Occam's Razor is a much better rule to live by than any number of "Commandments" or other dogma.
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See.. that's illogical. Deities and higherpower are two different things. You need to solidify your beliefs before you can convince me you have a clue to what you are talking about.
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Modeeb
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Occam's Razor is a much better rule to live by than any number of "Commandments" or other dogma.
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Occam's is wonderful little heuristic (i.e. decision point tool; rule of thumb). A simple solution (Occams Razor), in general, is better than a more complex one. You overcome Occam's when the more complex solution adds something more. There may be some confusion about applying it to the ten commandments, but so what? I would encourage you to use new things you learn right away, even if it comes out a little muddled. You will add more tools to thinking tool box.
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Allstarslacker
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Occam's Razor is a much better rule to live by than any number of "Commandments" or other dogma.
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To determine how you should treat others you first have to determine what you want from them.
Then you can decide how you should treat them.
If you want them to be good to you you will have to be good to them.
When Jesus says do unto others as you'd have them do unto you it is not a moral directive. It is practical advice.
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tenkly
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IMHO posted:
See.. that's illogical. Deities and higherpower are two different things. You need to solidify your beliefs before you can convince me you have a clue to what you are talking about.
Excuse me for being under the impression that you knew what i meant when I said higher power. Keep trolling hard though, you're getting better( not really).
WTF else would I have meant by that given the context of my subject line?
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IMHO
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Occam's Razor is a much better rule to live by than any number of "Commandments" or other dogma.
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tenkly posted:
IMHO posted:
See.. that's illogical. Deities and higherpower are two different things. You need to solidify your beliefs before you can convince me you have a clue to what you are talking about.
Excuse me for being under the impression that you knew what i meant when I said higher power. Keep trolling hard though, you're getting better( not really).
WTF else would I have meant by that given the context of my subject line?
Ignorance is bliss, keep being blissful 
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Corky_Aloof
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Occam's Razor is a much better rule to live by than any number of "Commandments" or other dogma.
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IMHO posted:
It;s illogical NOT to believe in a higherpower.
This
If 95%+ of the worlds population believes in a higher power, that means non believers are in the minority and are the ones conceivably the illogical ones.
Perhaps the perception of a higher power is kind of an innate ability in humans. and for those of us who do not think this, well there are always those few birds in the flock who do not fly south with the rest, disoriented and weak, they stay behind to freeze and die. 
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Yukishiro1
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Corky_Aloof posted:
If 95%+ of the worlds population believes in a higher power, that means non believers are in the minority and are the ones conceivably the illogical ones.
This may be the Outpost Post of the Week.
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_Enkidu_
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What would ever lead anyone to believe in a higher power? It's just silly.
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Modeeb
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I believe there is something other than my consciousness, a Collective Consciousness- an Other. It is not hard to believe in Otherness. My belief is an intuitive one.
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Sin_of_Onin
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The potential of humanity and the riddle of creation creates a lot of questions that people tend to answer one way or other.
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_Enkidu_
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Modeeb posted:
I believe there is something other than my consciousness, a Collective Consciousness- an Other. It is not hard to believe in Otherness. My belief is an intuitive one.
Intuitive beliefs are very prone to mistakes, unless your ok with the whole geocentric universe thing. If that's the case, you have a lot bigger problem than just trusting your intuition.
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Modeeb
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My Myers Briggs is an INFP. I'm not much of a thinker.
Science is more false than true.
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_Enkidu_
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Science isn't false or true, it's just a way of learning things. All 'facts' discovered by science are always only conditionally true, but that's still a hell of a lot better than made up on the spot.
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Modeeb
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Phrenology was once accepted science.  Dont get me wrong, science is our paradigm model for knowledge. I am all for knowledge. However logic has its limitations.
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Sin_of_Onin
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Is not believing in anything logical?
Include moral beliefs.
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NuEM
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What do higher powers believe in? 
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Allstarslacker
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Logic is a tool. It can only do what you are capable of using it to do.
However, logic is not a reason. Existence isn't trying to make sense. We are trying to make sense of existence.
Why?
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Sin_of_Onin
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NuEM posted:
What do higher powers believe in?
If you are the Alpha and the Omega you don't have to worry about logic.
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
Is not believing in anything logical?
If you concede yourself to be nothing but part of the animal kingdom, nothing higher nor lower, yet acknowledge you possess a consciousness entirely above and beyond that of any other creature on earth, I would call that illogical.
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_Enkidu_
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The nice thing about science is it corrects for the limitations of other kinds of knowledge. The only limits on science are the ontological limits placed on us, but those limits are redefined on a daily basis.
Science can define morality just as well as any any other epistemological appeal, only it would be a much closer approximation of the truth in the matter.
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Allstarslacker
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But why bother to define anything?
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Sin_of_Onin
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Someone is dodging the question.
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_Enkidu_
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I should probably post up my lecture notes on ontology and epistemology sometime. It's interesting stuff to talk about when everybody is on the same page...
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tenkly
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I'd read it !
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cabbyman
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tenkly posted:
I'd read it !
Unfortunately Occam's Razor tells us that you can't...
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Yukishiro1
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...because the most plausible explanation is that Enkidu is not really a college professor but instead a male fluffer like 90% of the rest of the Outpost.
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IMHO
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Go Go Corky_Aloof!!!
You are pwning in this thread. Tenkly could learn something.
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Onslaught.
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Modeeb posted:
Phrenology was once accepted science. Dont get me wrong, science is our paradigm model for knowledge. I am all for knowledge. However logic has its limitations.
The thing about science is that, no it isn't always right and it doesn't have all the answers. If it did, it wouldn't exist anymore.
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Thugoneous
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Science has all the answers, we just know them yet.
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Modeeb
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The belief or faith science will solve all our problems and accelerate our civilization to a Utopian future is a modern concept. We are in a postmodern epoch now.
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