Sansfear
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Embrace Life - always wear your seatbalt
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Just a reminder. A friend at work was in a bad accident this evening but was uninjured thanks to seat belt and air bags.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-8PBx7isoM
One of the best PSAs ever made.
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Yukishiro1
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inb4 "that's fascism!"
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Cawlin
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Heh, I agree! I wouldn't be here today to argue with you fkn idiots if I hadn't been wearing my seatbelt a little over 2 years ago when I was driving at almost 85mph on route 287 in North Jersey and was hit from behind and spun around and into the center divider... so yeah... wear your seatbelts, it's the smart thing to do people.
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smellymotor
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i wasnt wearing a seatbelt when i was in an accident when i was 5. I went flying through the rear window and ended up on the road
so.... yeah, that explains it
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the_great_intex
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Embrace Life - always wear your seatbalt
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Sansfear posted:
Just a reminder. A friend at work was in a bad accident this evening but was uninjured thanks to seat belt and air bags.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-8PBx7isoM
One of the most unconstitutional PSAs ever made.
Fixed.
Seat belt laws are restricting of freedoms and are unconstitutional. If there's no crime being committed on against any person then there is no crime being committed. If the government wants people to drive with seat belts put it in the Constitution
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Manegarm
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My brother put his belt on 5 mins before we were in a major collision when we were young.. he would probably not have survived without the belt.
we were lucky that there was a lot of snow out, also the reason why we had the accident in the first place..
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Manegarm
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the_great_intex posted:
Sansfear posted:
Just a reminder. A friend at work was in a bad accident this evening but was uninjured thanks to seat belt and air bags.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-8PBx7isoM
One of the most unconstitutional PSAs ever made.
Fixed.
Seat belt laws are restricting of freedoms and are unconstitutional. If there's no crime being committed on against any person then there is no crime being committed. If the government wants people to drive with seat belts put it in the Constitution
Then you as a constitutional moron should have to pay the expenses of removing your skull from the steering wheel, lets not forget the expenses of the ambulance etc etc etc.. or your loved ones will have to be billed, since you're probably not alive or just slightly more retarded and can not be understood.
It's law here, and a law I fully support since it saves lives and saves people from being horribly crippled which costs me the tax payer.
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the_great_intex
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Manegarm posted:
the_great_intex posted:
Sansfear posted:
Just a reminder. A friend at work was in a bad accident this evening but was uninjured thanks to seat belt and air bags.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-8PBx7isoM
One of the most unconstitutional PSAs ever made.
Fixed.
Seat belt laws are restricting of freedoms and are unconstitutional. If there's no crime being committed on against any person then there is no crime being committed. If the government wants people to drive with seat belts put it in the Constitution
Then you as a constitutional moron should have to pay the expenses of removing your skull from the steering wheel, lets not forget the expenses of the ambulance etc etc etc.. or your loved ones will have to be billed, since you're probably not alive or just slightly more retarded and can not be understood.
It's law here, and a law I fully support since it saves lives and saves people from being horribly crippled which costs me the tax payer.
It's against the 1st amendment and is illegal as are emission restrictions and government required safety regulations
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Aerlinthian
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Wearing a seat belt is generally a good thing to do. And one of the better ways to inspire people to use them is through the natural process of insurance incentives. The government doesn't need to force people to do something that economic self interest would accomplish.
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__Bonk__
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Totally. It saves lives. Also wear a helmet biking and motorbiking
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Yukishiro1
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the_great_intex posted:
It's against the 1st amendment and is illegal as are emission restrictions and government required safety regulations
What on earth does wearing a seatbelt have to do with the 1st amendment? 
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paulg_68
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Yukishiro1 posted:
inb4 "that's fascism!"
Advising people to wear seatbelts is a great thing for the government to do.
Nothing fascist about that at all.
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Manegarm
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the_great_intex posted:
Manegarm posted:
the_great_intex posted:
[quote=Sansfear]Just a reminder. A friend at work was in a bad accident this evening but was uninjured thanks to seat belt and air bags.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-8PBx7isoM
One of the most unconstitutional PSAs ever made.
Fixed.
Seat belt laws are restricting of freedoms and are unconstitutional. If there's no crime being committed on against any person then there is no crime being committed. If the government wants people to drive with seat belts put it in the Constitution
Then you as a constitutional moron should have to pay the expenses of removing your skull from the steering wheel, lets not forget the expenses of the ambulance etc etc etc.. or your loved ones will have to be billed, since you're probably not alive or just slightly more retarded and can not be understood.
It's law here, and a law I fully support since it saves lives and saves people from being horribly crippled which costs me the tax payer.
It's against the 1st amendment and is illegal as are emission restrictions and government required safety regulations[/quote]
And if you hurt yourself in your vehicle by not wearing a seat belt, where in the constitution does it say that the taxpayer has to pay for your retarded ass?
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Yukishiro1
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Aerlinthian posted:
And one of the better ways to inspire people to use them is through the natural process of insurance incentives.
How? How does an insurance company give people discounts for using seatbelts? They can start charging you more after you're in an accident without a seatbelt but that is a pretty poor incentive because the damage has likely already been done and the sort of moron who doesn't wear a seatbelt clearly isn't thinking ahead in the first place.
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paulg_68
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My car knows whether or not I'm wearing a seatbelt. It knows if my passengers are too.
It wouldn't be hard for insurance companies to track who does and who doesn't. I can look at my gas mileage info online right now because my car uploads it. It could easily upload seatbelt usage info as well.
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Urk_VN
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http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin2005-15.html
Ironically, the people riding in the car with that guy who did wear their seat belts survived...
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Altra_Shadowstalker
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paulg_68 posted:
My car knows whether or not I'm wearing a seatbelt. It knows if my passengers are too.
It wouldn't be hard for insurance companies to track who does and who doesn't. I can look at my gas mileage info online right now because my car uploads it. It could easily upload seatbelt usage info as well.
lol, you'd trade one minor intrusion for a huge one... but hey as long as its a corporation doing it, no problem, right?
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Altra_Shadowstalker
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smellymotor posted:
i wasnt wearing a seatbelt when i was in an accident when i was 5. I went flying through the rear window and ended up on the road
so.... yeah, that explains it
Actually, I think that explains a lot.
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paulg_68
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Altra_Shadowstalker posted:
paulg_68 posted:
My car knows whether or not I'm wearing a seatbelt. It knows if my passengers are too.
It wouldn't be hard for insurance companies to track who does and who doesn't. I can look at my gas mileage info online right now because my car uploads it. It could easily upload seatbelt usage info as well.
lol, you'd trade one minor intrusion for a huge one... but hey as long as its a corporation doing it, no problem, right?
If you don't like the intrusion then just pay full price for your insurance. Why would I fear having some insurance company learn that I always wear my seatbelt? I'm not sure how that's a "huge" intrusion. It's information I want them to have because it will earn me a discount.
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Aerlinthian
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Yukishiro1 posted:
How? How does an insurance company give people discounts for using seatbelts? They can start charging you more after you're in an accident without a seatbelt but that is a pretty poor incentive because the damage has likely already been done and the sort of moron who doesn't wear a seatbelt clearly isn't thinking ahead in the first place.
Accident investigations always determine seat belt status.
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Cawlin
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paulg_68 posted:
Altra_Shadowstalker posted:
paulg_68 posted:
My car knows whether or not I'm wearing a seatbelt. It knows if my passengers are too.
It wouldn't be hard for insurance companies to track who does and who doesn't. I can look at my gas mileage info online right now because my car uploads it. It could easily upload seatbelt usage info as well.
lol, you'd trade one minor intrusion for a huge one... but hey as long as its a corporation doing it, no problem, right?
If you don't like the intrusion then just pay full price for your insurance. Why would I fear having some insurance company learn that I always wear my seatbelt? I'm not sure how that's a "huge" intrusion. It's information I want them to have because it will earn me a discount.
It won't be long before they have this information anyway. I suspect within the next 20 years, no new vehicles will be produced withouth On-Star type chips in them that function as locators and "black boxes" for all manner of things, including time traveled without a seatbelt on and so forth. This will be an issue that is forced by insurance companies and will be required as a condition of coverage. Initially this will be mandated under the auspices of helping insurance companies to help recoup losses on stolen vehicles, but of course it will wind up being used to track and disable vehicles at the whim of law enforcement.
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Sea_of_inK
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There have been many situations where a car with multiple people in it only has 1 unbelted individual inside and their flailing body has killed and injured the others. It cannot be done safely, like drunk driving. If you want to use public roads obey public law. Don't want to wear a seatbelt? walk.
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paulg_68
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By that thinking you shouldn't be allowed to carry groceries in your car since a flying can of soup could kill someone.
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Sea_of_inK
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That is ridiculous.
Wearing your seat belt is not. That's why it's the law. Driving is a privilege, don't forget it.
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Aerlinthian
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According to the big government support group everything related to travel is a privilege. Maybe they should read the constitution sometime before the TSA is on their local sidewalk screening passers by.
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paulg_68
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Sea_of_inK posted:
That is ridiculous.
Wearing your seat belt is not. That's why it's the law. Driving is a privilege, don't forget it.
I bet you're more likely to get killed by something you're carrying in your car hitting you during an accident than being killed by a flying body. In fact I bet the odds are about 100 times more likely that you get killed by cargo than passengers.
Which is more ridiculous, creating a law to save people from one thing and then ignoring something else 100 times more likely to kill them?
We probably shouldn't let people drive at all. We could cut deaths by car accident a lot if we didn't allow people to drive.
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sweeny_comodore
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not wearing a seat belt should not be a punishable offense.
it is only a "crime" because they wanted to give cops an excuse to pull over and interrogate any person at any time.
they should also require citizens to wear helmets around skyscrapers.
you know how many people are killed by falling debris from skyscrapers every year?
the government should not be dictating personal safety equipment for citizens in every day life
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Yukishiro1
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Aerlinthian posted:
Yukishiro1 posted:
How? How does an insurance company give people discounts for using seatbelts? They can start charging you more after you're in an accident without a seatbelt but that is a pretty poor incentive because the damage has likely already been done and the sort of moron who doesn't wear a seatbelt clearly isn't thinking ahead in the first place.
Accident investigations always determine seat belt status.
Way to not read to the end of the quote.
People don't wear seatbelts because they are idiots who can't think ahead. They are not going to start wearing seatbelts over the fear that their insurance premiums might go up AFTER an accident. If they were that sort of person they would be wearing a seatbelt in the first place.
What kind of a moron says "oh, just my life? nah, not wearing a seatbelt. BUT MY INSURANCE PREMIUMS MIGHT GO UP? OMG TIME TO BELT UP!"
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sweeny_comodore
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Aerlinthian posted:
Yukishiro1 posted:
How? How does an insurance company give people discounts for using seatbelts? They can start charging you more after you're in an accident without a seatbelt but that is a pretty poor incentive because the damage has likely already been done and the sort of moron who doesn't wear a seatbelt clearly isn't thinking ahead in the first place.
Accident investigations always determine seat belt status.
Way to not read to the end of the quote.
People don't wear seatbelts because they are idiots who can't think ahead. They are not going to start wearing seatbelts over the fear that their insurance premiums might go up AFTER an accident. If they were that sort of person they would be wearing a seatbelt in the first place.
What kind of a moron says "oh, just my life? nah, not wearing a seatbelt. BUT MY INSURANCE PREMIUMS MIGHT GO UP? OMG TIME TO BELT UP!"
people who dont wear hard hats are idiots who cant think ahead. they havent considered that a chunk of ice might fall off an airplane and land on them or that a skyscraper window might fall out...
people whould always wear a hard hat
and steel toe boots.
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Yukishiro1
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Uh, to make the analogy complete, it would be that if you didn't wear a hard hat and then you got hurt because of it you'd have to pay an extra 5 bucks.
"Meh, just my brains at stake? I'll take teh risk. BUT MY BRAINS AND FIVE DOLLARS? HAT ME UP!"
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paulg_68
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1) Yuki thinks he's right.
2) Yuki doesn't believe in personal freedom.
3) So long as Yuki has the power to force individuals to do what he says he will because of (1) and (2).
Everything else Yuki says on this subject is subterfuge.
All you need to know about his position are 1, 2, and 3 above.
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the_great_intex
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I get a fine just because I want to take a risk and didn't conform to the government's unconstiutional regulations
Pretty soon they'll be fining us for not turning off our brights when someone's in front of us
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Yukishiro1
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I obviously musta pwned you pretty hard some time without remembering it to make you so /affected.
Also, your post has nothing to do with Aer's suggestion being stupid. Punishing people who don't wear seat belts by raising their insurance premiums after an accident is not going to get anyone to wear seatbelts. People who don't wear seatbelts by definition arn't thinking ahead.
P.S. No one believes in personal freedom to interfere with other people's safety. Not even Paulg.
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Embrace Life - always wear your seatbalt
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Yukishiro1 posted:
P.S. No one believes in personal freedom to interfere with other people's safety. Not even Paulg.
You literally can't leave your house without endangering other people's safety.
I believe you should be prepared to pay the consequences if things go badly.
Also, you are ignoring the fact that you could raise people's insurance premiums before an accident. You don't have to wait until after.
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Aerlinthian
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Embrace Life - always wear your seatbalt
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Yuki, you are aware that every year tens if not hundreds of thousands of people take special driving and safety courses to reduce their insurance, yes? If not you are either ignorant or in denial of the how incentives work. As a matter of fact I just recently took a motorcycle safety course for this reason and in addition what I learned there was very helpful to keeping myself safe.
Personally, I think you have a vested argument interest in being of denial of how incentives work.
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Koneg
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Embrace Life - always wear your seatbalt
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Manegarm posted:
Then you as a constitutional moron should have to pay the expenses of removing your skull from the steering wheel
It's not even about that.
The vast majority of accidents are relatively low speed (~30MPH) "minor" collisions in city traffic. The problem is even a very low speed (~15mph) has enough energy to catapult a drive out of the drivers seat and out from behind the wheel of that car.
If you're going to drive your vehicle you have a responsibility to those around you to stay the hell behind that wheel and retain control of your vehicle when that minor collision occurs - and keep it from becoming a catastrophic collision when your car careens onto the sidewalk 
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Onslaught.
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Embrace Life - always wear your seatbalt
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Koneg posted:
Manegarm posted:
Then you as a constitutional moron should have to pay the expenses of removing your skull from the steering wheel
It's not even about that.
The vast majority of accidents are relatively low speed (~30MPH) "minor" collisions in city traffic. The problem is even a very low speed (~15mph) has enough energy to catapult a drive out of the drivers seat and out from behind the wheel of that car.
If you're going to drive your vehicle you have a responsibility to those around you to stay the hell behind that wheel and retain control of your vehicle when that minor collision occurs - and keep it from becoming a catastrophic collision when your car careens onto the sidewalk
This is the only good explanation for necessity of seatbelt laws that I've really ever seen. Cool.
Christ. Someone on the internet may have caused me to change my opinion on something. wtf am I going to do now?
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NuEM
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Embrace Life - always wear your seatbalt
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Funny because it's kind of a stupid argument. The sort of accident that catapults you out of the car will have you lose control of your car anyway, seatbelt or not.
But if it makes idiots wear their seatbelt it's not really that bad of an argument I guess.
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Crooq_Lionfang
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Embrace Life - always wear your seatbalt
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Fact is if you hit something and don't wear a seatbelt you basically become a human cannon ball, unless you wear a seatbelt
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Onslaught.
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NuEM posted:
Funny because it's kind of a stupid argument. The sort of accident that catapults you out of the car will have you lose control of your car anyway, seatbelt or not.
But if it makes idiots wear their seatbelt it's not really that bad of an argument I guess.
Reading fail? He said seat, not out of the car entirely.
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NuEM
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And you think that changes anything? Sorry to hear you have to be duped into not killing yourself.
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Manegarm
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Koneg posted:
Manegarm posted:
Then you as a constitutional moron should have to pay the expenses of removing your skull from the steering wheel
It's not even about that.
The vast majority of accidents are relatively low speed (~30MPH) "minor" collisions in city traffic. The problem is even a very low speed (~15mph) has enough energy to catapult a drive out of the drivers seat and out from behind the wheel of that car.
If you're going to drive your vehicle you have a responsibility to those around you to stay the hell behind that wheel and retain control of your vehicle when that minor collision occurs - and keep it from becoming a catastrophic collision when your car careens onto the sidewalk
random outpost libtardian idiot, lets call him paul posted:
Dat is fasiscim, my butthurts!
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Manegarm
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Onslaught. posted:
Koneg posted:
Manegarm posted:
Then you as a constitutional moron should have to pay the expenses of removing your skull from the steering wheel
It's not even about that.
The vast majority of accidents are relatively low speed (~30MPH) "minor" collisions in city traffic. The problem is even a very low speed (~15mph) has enough energy to catapult a drive out of the drivers seat and out from behind the wheel of that car.
If you're going to drive your vehicle you have a responsibility to those around you to stay the hell behind that wheel and retain control of your vehicle when that minor collision occurs - and keep it from becoming a catastrophic collision when your car careens onto the sidewalk
This is the only good explanation for necessity of seatbelt laws that I've really ever seen. Cool.
Christ. Someone on the internet may have caused me to change my opinion on something. wtf am I going to do now?
And by the all time douchebag award winner Koneg no less, you're a special kind of idiot aren't you?
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AzureTyger
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Pretty sure the_great_intex was LARPing.
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Actually Yuki, on matters such as this, insurance premiums will drive personal behavior change a thousand times faster than safety data and the fear of injury will.
The reason is that people will rationalize the "low" chance of being in an accident, but if they MUST pay more for their insurance, well there's no chance of avoiding that. The obvious trick is to figure out a way to charge people who don't use their seatbelt BEFORE they get into an accident.
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I've always wondered this, they require people to wear seat belts and motorcycle helmets for safety and insurance costs but they allow jumping out of functioning airplanes for fun.
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Bonzoboy1 posted:
I've always wondered this, they require people to wear seat belts and motorcycle helmets for safety and insurance costs but they allow jumping out of functioning airplanes for fun.
I'd be curious to see the statistics on vehicle accidents per hundred thousand drivers vs. skydiving accidents per hundred thousand skydivers.
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Yukishiro1
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Embrace Life - always wear your seatbalt
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Aerlinthian posted:
Yuki, you are aware that every year tens if not hundreds of thousands of people take special driving and safety courses to reduce their insurance, yes? If not you are either ignorant or in denial of the how incentives work. As a matter of fact I just recently took a motorcycle safety course for this reason and in addition what I learned there was very helpful to keeping myself safe.
Those work because people do them to lower their insurance costs. You were proposing a mechanism where people's insurance costs would be raised AFTER an accident where they weren't wearing a seatbelt. For patently obviously reasons that isn't going to get anyone to wear a seatbelt who wouldn't otherwise.
Paul had an idea involving 24/7 monitoring that could allow for insurance discounts for using a seatbelt. The 24/7 monitoring of your car is a bit problematic but that at least has the potential to affect behavior.
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Yukishiro1
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Embrace Life - always wear your seatbalt
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paulg_68 posted:
You literally can't leave your house without endangering other people's safety.
That's a stupid argument. Just because we allow people to do some things that have some marginal level to danger to others in public doesn't mean we should allow people to do anything in public regardless of the danger.
paulg_68 posted:
I believe you should be prepared to pay the consequences if things go badly.
But nobody can. Nobody can bring a dead person back to life. And 99% of the population cannot afford to pay even the economic damages of a bad car accident. A libertarian like you should be against mandated car insurance too - that is a much bigger intrusion on personal liberty than having to buckle up - so your philosophy would leave people driving around who have no possible hope of being able to pay for the damage they cause.
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Yukishiro1
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Embrace Life - always wear your seatbalt
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Koneg posted:
Manegarm posted:
Then you as a constitutional moron should have to pay the expenses of removing your skull from the steering wheel
It's not even about that.
The vast majority of accidents are relatively low speed (~30MPH) "minor" collisions in city traffic. The problem is even a very low speed (~15mph) has enough energy to catapult a drive out of the drivers seat and out from behind the wheel of that car.
If you're going to drive your vehicle you have a responsibility to those around you to stay the hell behind that wheel and retain control of your vehicle when that minor collision occurs - and keep it from becoming a catastrophic collision when your car careens onto the sidewalk
No kidding. I thought this was common knowledge but judging from this thread apparently it isn't.
If you want to drive around without a seatbelt on your own private road that's one thing. Doing it in public is another.
If you don't want to take Metaldouche's word for it, ask Crooq. IIRC he works as an EMT and will have personal experience he wishes he didn't with what happens.
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No dialogue, no special effects, no budget. Just a powerful idea and great expression acting by 3 people. Prolly the strongest PSA ever made.
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You see, here in PA we have a law that says you must wear a seat belt. However, you do not have to wear a motorcycle helmet because studies show that drivers are much safer in motorcycle accidents where riders wear no helmet are safer than car accidents where people don't wear seat belts.
Oh, wait. We had a helmet law until the Gubner had it repealed because he was a motorcycle rider.
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I didn't read all this but let me say this:
Seat belts are one of the many ways that Darwin Award winners begin the selection process. If you don't want to wear one, feel free to take your chances.
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I don't understand the non-seatbelt wears reasoning. So much so that I can't even discus it with them. It's akin to the texting while driving morons.
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