Modeeb
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I have persuaded myself, at this time, I am not monogamous by nature. I continue to do sexual research which supports my position. In general, ee are culturally indoctrinated to adopt a standard narrative (monogamy) into our belief systems. My research is nothing original. I am just building a bibliography to see what is available in the literature. And it is more of a hobby than a passion. It is controversial but gaining acceptance.
This does not mean I cannot unconditionally love someone. This critical hurdle needs to be negotiated before you can enter into an honest open relationship with anyone. There are women who I am completely compatible with intellectually and sexually. So, the issue: Why do I need more than one? My answer: Existence is manifesting. It is natural and harmonious. My only guidelines are, Do no harm and be open.
Have you ever tried telling a woman, I am not going to promise to be faithful to you; but I have redeeming qualities that will give you something else. This is a difficult sell. First, it cannot appear as a sell. Every woman I seem to be interested in can sniff out my agendas before I even know I have them.
I am bravely sallying forth with the zeal and optimism of Don Quixote-post realization.
/blog off
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__Bonk__
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I want to really fall in love with a woman and become her best friend
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Modeeb
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You can do this with many women. it does not have to be one woman. The simplified standard narrative is one where we come together physically and economically for a few years to raise children. This family man dimension is not to be diminished. I have three loving sons and know the joy of fatherhood. We were not designed to spend 50-60 years with one exclusive lover.
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__Bonk__
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True but if I chose one woman and she chooses me I want to respect her and not betray her trust by fooling around with other women.
I of course am the worst person in the world to be talking about relationships but this is how I feel right now
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Modeeb
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The trust issue is critical. This is why I tell women going into a relationship my philosophy on monogamy. When you are in your middle age years and an empty nester everything changes. If you are awake it is easy to see. You cannnot regain the dynamics of the way you behaved when you were younger-why would you want to? These guys who are 60 and 70 with young children are odd in my perspective. Why would anyone want to go through this angst? Really one child is enough.
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__Bonk__
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I dont want to have children. This is really not a problem since I'm not having regular sex with women.
If I did accidently have one I would love and raise it though. The problem is my income is so low that I could probably barely afford it. I can barely afford to live right now!
And Modeeb I admire the great job you did with your kids and the long period you were married to your wife. You did a great job. Sounds like today you are dealing with many rationalizations but at the core I know you are a very good and loving person and a great father
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eodoll
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Arent there other polyyamorous women you can be with? I dated a girl that told me she has since she was a child felt shed never be with just one man and would be one of the swinger types.. She said that she had cheated on every man she was with. The key thing about her though was she only wanted to date people that were monogamous by nature... That was her big problem, she had no interest in being with someone like herself.
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Modeeb
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There is a population of open minded women. Intimacy and caring, as well as sex, is the key in the relationships I seek. I am not a swinger type. This is a stereotype. I have been through all types of hedonism, including multiple simultaneous sexual partners. I am trying to blaze some new paths in my later years.
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eodoll
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I wouldnt call it open minded or closed minded - she seemed to be deeply troubled as far as her personal relationships went. The fact that she hated the concept of men that are like her said a lot to me. Maybe for her it was always having the upper hand and the fallback or the attention/thrill of a new relationship or affair.
Anyway, im sure there are people who share your point of view - you should try to connect with them, but you might be left unsatiated ; they will not be capable of giving you their undivided attention and affection the way a monogamous lover can.
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Modeeb
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You are speaking about pathological narcissists. People who need multiple partners to mirror they are acceptable. I have lived through this. This is not the case with me at this time. I accept myself as I am. I am usually drawn to women who accept themselves as they are.
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__Bonk__
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ya the key seems to be to find someone who thinks the same way you do
Good luck dude
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Azure-TheBlueOne
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Certainly not all people are wired for monogamy, but to extend that and say that none of us are, or that some of us are only because of simple conditioning, seems like a huge cop-out. A way to reason through your own hang-ups about the path and enshrine your view as 'correct'.
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eodoll
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Modeeb posted:
You are speaking about pathological narcissists. People who need multiple partners to mirror they are acceptable. I have lived through this. This is not the case with me at this time. I accept myself as I am. I am usually drawn to women who accept themselves as they are.
My point is that if you end up with a woman that shares your point of view on relationships then you will probably not be satiated. Therein lies your problem.. An open relationship means the person might spend friday night or the weekend with someone else.. Leaving you alone and unloved. She will not be there for you when you need her, she will be there when she needs you. And will you be there when she needs you? Maybe not, you mght want someone else that weekend. It doesnt work.
What does work is the polygamist approach - maybe you can find some women just willing to wait around for you whenever youre ready for them(and you dont have to financially support them). Every mans dream.
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__Bonk__
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Sex is such an intimate, emotional experience. It just doesnt seem like something easily shared
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Altra_Shadowstalker
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edit: pointlessly harsh as it probably makes your case for you.
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I don't typo often, but when I do, I blame Swype.
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__Bonk__
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Modeeb is clearly a good person and a good father though
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Altra_Shadowstalker
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__Bonk__ posted:
Modeeb is clearly a good person and a good father though
I would never argue against that.
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I don't typo often, but when I do, I blame Swype.
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Modeeb
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Thinking about the future and a woman causing me unhappiness is not what I am talking about. I cause my own unhappiness- not a future relationship. I'm fine not being in a relationship. Life is what it Is.
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__Bonk__
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Relationships are tricky. I dont understand them but I know Modeeb is a good person and a great father
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Modeeb
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I am just looking at some accepted beliefs and questioning them. I do not want to attach any moral judgments to them. I think with science we can make arguments for certain positions as being more closely associated with Reality. But this is a social science issue and we are not going to conclusively say one position is better than another position for each individual. I have always thought each of us does the best we can with what we got. Notwithstanding my political trolling I try not to judge others.
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Ptilk
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I think that people who choose celibacy as a lifestyle are fricken idiots. A healthy person who is capable of sexual intercourse who chooses not to do so ever....is insane. Not hyperbole, clinically mentally deranged. IMO of course.
Now, a person who chooses to restrict their sexual outlet to a single other person forever.....hmmm? Not quite insane, but pretty fricken close. It's not gonna happen.
I don't care how much you love them, how much you respect, adore, cherish, and value them. Not gonna happen. It might last for 20 years, maybe longer, but unless you die, have your sexuality repressed to a clinically insane level, or get too sick to boink before the limit hits.....you are going to cheat or you are going to be so upset that you didn't cheat when you could have, you might as well have done it because you and your partner would be better off.
Humans are sexual creatures. We don't have a mating season, we have sexual urges from the day we are born till the day we die. The thrill of the encounter is directly proportional to it's uniqueness. That isn't to say it's the best sex when it's the first time. It's not the culmination and the intercourse that is the payoff, it's the leading up to and the getting there.
Of course, partnership and being in love aren't all about sex. The sex is just a part of such a pairing. The ties that bind life partners are much more complex than the simple biological action of intercourse. Having a partner can be fulfilling on levels far beyond biological urges. So why do so many people who have seemingly wonderful partnerships fuck them up by cheating? Because biological urges are governed by parts of the brain we have no control over. That isn't a cop out to excuse being a dick and screwing over your love. It's just reality.
Somehow, we humans have socially conditioned ourselves to hate our biology and we attempt to repress it so we can "be happy". That's insane. It's like growing up on a planet where the "norm" is to never take a shit after the age of 30. Doing so is an awful thing and means you don't love anyone and you are a selfish prick. Of course, everyone on the planet dies soon after turning 30, in an explosion of fecal matter....but hey, at least they did the "right thing". Actually, very few would die, and most would just go shit where no one could see them and lie about it.
Which is exactly what happens now with sex on this planet. Insane.
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Modeeb
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 I'm tracking with you , right up to your exploding shit analogy and then I think you took a communication wrong turn.
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eodoll
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Most of us have complete control over our bioligical urges. How often do people get a gun and kill everybody? Rarely.. Anger and rage and a desire to kill are biological urges - most of us have complete control over it.
How often do people rape others? Apparently its in the %20 of all people get raped range.. Which sadly is high, but the rest of us control it just fine.
Are you a proponent of people following any insinctual urge? Or just the ones you agree with? Why block any urge?
Accordng to you the world ucks because people repress their urges.
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Ptilk
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I just felt like throwing that in at the end cause I felt like talking about exploding shit. I'm in a mood today. I got laid last night.
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Modeeb
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Eodoll, I would recommend you study Carl Jungs theories on integration and the shadow. The answers to those questions are part of depth psychology.
Here are a couple quick links. I just googled them and scanned them for glaring in inaccuracies. Integration
Shadow This shadow is what I perceive Ptilk speaking about as "unknowns happening to us."
From wikipedia link above:
We begin to travel [up] through the healing spirals...straight up'. Here the struggle is to retain awareness of the shadow, but not identification with it. 'Non-identification demands considerable moral effort...prevents a descent into that darkness'; but though 'the conscious mind is liable to be submerged at any moment in the unconscious... understanding acts like a life-saver. It integrates the unconscious' - reincorporates the shadow into the personality, producing a stronger, wider consciousness than before. 'Assimilation of the shadow gives a man body, so to speak', and provides thereby a launching-pad for further individuation. 'The integration of the shadow, or the realisation of the personal unconscious, marks the first stage of the analytic process...without it a recognition of anima and animus is impossible'.
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eodoll
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Modeeb, have you tead prometheus rising? Its available online for free... I think the writer takes some concepts of jung and makes it his own.
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Modeeb
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It looks interesting but confusing , Eodoll.
Prometheus Rising
I am immersed in 3 books on experimental fiction and one on sexual research at this time.
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eodoll
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Google for " prometheus rising pdf" - its pretty interesting, ive never been able to finish it though because like many books of this kind it over generalizes and so it becomes boring.
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Azure-TheBlueOne
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I don't pass judgement, or disbelieve that your position is any less valid than someone who believes in monogamy. I don't see why you would largely misrepresent, ridicule and almost completely dismiss the opposing point of view though. Other than as a defense mechanism because you're not certain in your standing, despite saying it is so.
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Modeeb
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The standard narrative (accepted evolutionary psychology or pair bonded for life) offers the thesis: Anything other than the standard narrative is deviant or not normal. I am offering the antithesis to this. I am expanding, not contracting. The standard narrative is too narrow. The synthesis of these two will advance science. This is the dialectic movement of knowledge.
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Azure-TheBlueOne
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I agree with you then, we as a whole are not wholly one or the other. It's much more complicated than that, and it is worth searching out an understanding of both paths.
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Modeeb
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Yep, that is going to be my position on most topics. The salient characteristic is being open-minded.
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sweeny_comodore
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i bet bonk played with barbie and ken when he was little
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__Bonk__
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GrilledCheez
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Old leches can't understand monogamy? The devil you say?
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Modeeb
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" Human beings will be happier-not when they cure cancer or go to Mars or eliminate racial prejudice or flush Lake Erie, but when they find ways to inhabit primitive communities again. That's my utopia." Kurt Vonnegutt
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IMHO
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Modeeb posted:
I have persuaded myself, at this time, I am not monogamous by nature.
You are not a master of your domain
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He's [Manegarm] like the Fred Phelps of atheism. ~Bubbledude
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GrilledCheez
Title: The Lord's Balls
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37,872
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Mar 22, '06
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Subject:
Cutting New Relationship Routes to a New Way of Being
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I don't think embracing your sluttiness is bad. But pretending any other lifestyle choice is a lie or impossible is pretty funny.
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Another word for expensive is successful.
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__Bonk__
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Subject:
Cutting New Relationship Routes to a New Way of Being
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So Modeeb is an unrepentant whore?
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I keep my eyes fixed on the sun!
A change in feeling is a change in destiny.
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