Anebriated
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romney is not electable...
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awkward robots don't become presidents. millions of americans are voting by their gut, and their guts don't like romney.
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Chogram
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romney is not electable...
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It doesn't matter.
Nobody is beating Obama in this election and the GOP knows it.
They are just going to use this election to position themselves for next time.
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Jezza_Belle
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romney is not electable...
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so many Americans think that Mormons are cultists that there is no way he'll be elected.
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Casuist
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Romney can win if he can spin not releasing his tax returns. He pays less than 15% income tax and writes off donations to the Mormon church. Each of those will alienate a subset of the Republicans.
There's also the matter of his father being Mexican.
None of these are dealbreakers, but it will make for an interesting campaign.
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Jezza_Belle
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Casuist posted:
Romney can win if he can spin not releasing his tax returns. He pays less than 15% income tax and writes off donations to the Mormon church. Each of those will alienate a subset of the Republicans.
There's also the matter of his father being Mexican.
None of these are dealbreakers, but it will make for an interesting campaign.
I don't think many people are going to care that his father was Mexican, might get him a few more Mexican votes, but in my experience they are generally strict Catholics that feel very strongly about Mormons.
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Gaevren
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Didn't people say something similar about JFK?
It was something like he would never be elected because, as a Catholic, people would be too afraid that he would just listen to whatever the Pope said and not make his own decisions, etc.
Lo and behold, first Catholic president ever.
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BritonGuy
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Romney is a rich elite socialist championed by Fox News. Ron Paul is much more electable than him.
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aon_mixed
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romney is not electable...
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it's not as though your votes count
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Anebriated
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romney is not electable...
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Gaevren posted:
Didn't people say something similar about JFK?
It was something like he would never be elected because, as a Catholic, people would be too afraid that he would just listen to whatever the Pope said and not make his own decisions, etc.
Lo and behold, first Catholic president ever.
lol, that proves what? JFK =\= romney.
could romney pull off this speech?
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16920600
Transcript: JFK's Speech on His Religion
"........But let me stress again that these are my views. For contrary to common newspaper usage, I am not the Catholic candidate for president. I am the Democratic Party's candidate for president, who happens also to be a Catholic. I do not speak for my church on public matters, and the church does not speak for me.
Whatever issue may come before me as president — on birth control, divorce, censorship, gambling or any other subject — I will make my decision in accordance with these views, in accordance with what my conscience tells me to be the national interest, and without regard to outside religious pressures or dictates. And no power or threat of punishment could cause me to decide otherwise.
But if the time should ever come — and I do not concede any conflict to be even remotely possible — when my office would require me to either violate my conscience or violate the national interest, then I would resign the office; and I hope any conscientious public servant would do the same.
But I do not intend to apologize for these views to my critics of either Catholic or Protestant faith, nor do I intend to disavow either my views or my church in order to win this election.
If I should lose on the real issues, I shall return to my seat in the Senate, satisfied that I had tried my best and was fairly judged. But if this election is decided on the basis that 40 million Americans lost their chance of being president on the day they were baptized, then it is the whole nation that will be the loser — in the eyes of Catholics and non-Catholics around the world, in the eyes of history, and in the eyes of our own people."
lol
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Kordirn
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romney is not electable...
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Mormons are pretty damn crazy.
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combat_mage_sc
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Ubama bots aint too enthusiastic about him anymore.
Thank god liberals are lazy by nature. He wont have a huge voter turnout with the kiddies like in '08.
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Gaevren
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Oh I didn't so much mean to compare the men themselves as to say that the reasons people think Romney is not electable are probably about as valid as the reasons given for JFK, even if not exactly the same.
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-Abysmal-
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romney is not electable...
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it's all about the mormon in him...
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Anebriated
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Gaevren posted:
Oh I didn't so much mean to compare the men themselves as to say that the reasons people think Romney is not electable are probably about as valid as the reasons given for JFK, even if not exactly the same.
except they are valid because he can't convince anyone anything about himself cuz he has shifty eyes.
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Gaevren
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romney is not electable...
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Well I've never seen the man speak (I avoid political speeches and debates like the plague) so I can't comment there!
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Jezza_Belle
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Gaevren posted:
Oh I didn't so much mean to compare the men themselves as to say that the reasons people think Romney is not electable are probably about as valid as the reasons given for JFK, even if not exactly the same.
JFK had enough charisma to convince people he was genuine. There is also a big difference between being Catholic, which hold mostly similar views with other Christians, and being Mormon, which is viewed as strange and cultish to many Christians. There is also the contention that stands when Mormons call themselves Christians, that I've seen other Christians really get worked up about.
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Gaevren
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True, but he did get elected governor in a liberal, very non-Mormon state. I'm not saying he's a shoe-in by any means, but I wouldn't dismiss him either.
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BritonGuy
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Gaevren posted:
True, but he did get elected governor in a liberal, very non-Mormon state. I'm not saying he's a shoe-in by any means, but I wouldn't dismiss him either.
A socialist getting elected in a socialist state isn't surprising.
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Jezza_Belle posted:
Gaevren posted:
Oh I didn't so much mean to compare the men themselves as to say that the reasons people think Romney is not electable are probably about as valid as the reasons given for JFK, even if not exactly the same.
JFK had enough charisma to convince people he was genuine. There is also a big difference between being Catholic, which hold mostly similar views with other Christians, and being Mormon, which is viewed as strange and cultish to many Christians. There is also the contention that stands when Mormons call themselves Christians, that I've seen other Christians really get worked up about.
Technically they're all cultists and if they had real faith they'd write in the second coming of Jesus Christ as a candidate.
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Mangler_SC
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How can anyone vote for Obama again?
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Cuttlery
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Mangler_SC posted:
How can anyone vote for Obama again?
How can anyone vote for any of these idiots?
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BritonGuy
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Cuttlery posted:
Mangler_SC posted:
How can anyone vote for Obama again?
How can anyone vote for any of these idiots?
Exactly, stop voting for idiots and start voting for Ron Paul.
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Cuttlery posted:
Mangler_SC posted:
How can anyone vote for Obama again?
How can anyone vote for any of these idiots?
Indeed.
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Did anyone see that "Oh beautiful for spacious skies" thing on The Colbert Report. Oh man. 
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Jezza_Belle
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Mangler_SC posted:
How can anyone vote for Obama again?
Hell, I'll do it just to piss people off.
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combat_mage_sc
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Retards with ADD will forget how he ran the country into the ground, ruined our credit score and vote for him again.
Campaign rhetoric works miracles on feebs.
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Kanga_Roo
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Who of the Republican pack is electable?
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-Mithan-
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Ronald Reagan and George W Bush were elected presidents.
ANYBODY is electable. Even half of the people who post on ACF.
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NeoKarnak
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Mangler_SC posted:
How can anyone vote for Obama again?
Bush won reelection in '04. Why? Look at his opponent (and he still barely won).
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Puppy_Pants
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Vote Pants 2012 
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Mangler_SC
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Jezza_Belle posted:
Mangler_SC posted:
How can anyone vote for Obama again?
Hell, I'll do it just to piss people off.
Please don't.
Seriously.
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obama is a turn coat.
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Ron Paul posted:
Vote Pants 2012
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aon_mixed posted:
it's not as though your votes count
It's not as though your life matters. Why go on living?
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Anebriated posted:
awkward robots don't become presidents.
How did Obama get elected then?
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Jezza_Belle
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Mangler_SC posted:
Jezza_Belle posted:
Mangler_SC posted:
How can anyone vote for Obama again?
Hell, I'll do it just to piss people off.
Please don't.
Seriously.
Why not? he's done a lot for me.
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Element_X
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BritonGuy posted:
Romney is a rich elite socialist championed by Fox News. Ron Paul is much more electable than him.
Fox News is for Santorum. Murdock has publicly stated hes supporting him and if you were objective at all you would see that. Also, in 99% of polls Ron Paul is destroyed in a head-to-head with Obama, whereas with Romney in most polls he's either beating Obama or tied. I don't know what planet you Ron Paul people live on, but obviously reality doesn't exist there.
Romney is a technocrat, a pragmatist, which is why he comes off as robotic. He doesn't give rousing inspiring speeches. He's cautious, not brash. Its true though that the average bovine american voter is too shallow to recognize or appreciate this. They want the hollywood feel-good story. They typically vote for the most "likeable" guy. But look where that has got us. GW Bush was more likeable than Gore - in a nutshell thats what put him over the top. Same with Clinton before him. And now, we have a likeable personality as President who is very good at making rousing speeches, and making bold promises, and he's in way over his head, and borderline dangerous.
I think this country needs a boring, pragmatic, technocratic leader for a change.
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vn_anon63xxx
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Jezza_Belle posted:
Mangler_SC posted:
Jezza_Belle posted:
[quote=Mangler_SC]How can anyone vote for Obama again?
Hell, I'll do it just to piss people off.
Please don't.
Seriously.
Why not? He's helped me become more lazy.[/quote]
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NeoKarnak
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Element_X posted:
BritonGuy posted:
Romney is a rich elite socialist championed by Fox News. Ron Paul is much more electable than him.
Fox News is for Santorum. Murdock has publicly stated hes supporting him and if you were objective at all you would see that. Also, in 99% of polls Ron Paul is destroyed in a head-to-head with Obama, whereas with Romney in most polls he's either beating Obama or tied. I don't know what planet you Ron Paul people live on, but obviously reality doesn't exist there.
Romney is a technocrat, a pragmatist, which is why he comes off as robotic. He doesn't give rousing inspiring speeches. He's cautious, not brash. Its true though that the average bovine american voter is too shallow to recognize or appreciate this. They want the hollywood feel-good story. They typically vote for the most "likeable" guy. But look where that has got us. GW Bush was more likeable than Gore - in a nutshell thats what put him over the top. Same with Clinton before him. And now, we have a likeable personality as President who is very good at making rousing speeches, and making bold promises, and he's in way over his head, and borderline dangerous.
I think this country needs a boring, pragmatic, technocratic leader for a change.
Wow...no he wasn't. But the rest I agree with.
I won't vote for Romney for the simple fact that he will have to do things to placate his base, and the majority of his base are mouth-breathers.
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Ptilk
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Most people wouldn't notice much difference in policies between having Obama or Romney in office. Neither one of them stand for much of anything...except getting elected. All the hype from either side of the aisle is just that. Hype. Whatever either man actually believes is both beside the point, and irrelevant. Both of them are pragmatic, realist, cowards.
That said, the people who would be able to notice a difference, would be able to point out that even though Obama bows to the corporate interests and money tossing lobbyists on almost everything....Romney doesn't get to put an almost in there.
The USA has no moderates or liberals left in power, so it's a fight between barely right of center "conservatives" (Obama) and farther right of center "conservatives" (Romney).
If Democrats were actually "leftist, socialist, liberals", they would nominate a guy like Kucinich. They aren't, they are the party of do stupid stuff that doesn't matter then claim it's a big deal.
If Republicans were actually "Small government, fiscally prudent, conservatives", they would nominate a guy like Huntsman. They aren't, they are the party of do even more stupid stuff that really is a big deal then convince people that it's in their best interest to get screwed over while waving a flag and holding a bible.
Both options suck. Republicans suck more. I'll vote for Obama even though I hate the bastard. Some choice eh?
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combat_mage_sc posted:
Retards with ADD will forget how he ran the country into the ground, ruined our credit score and vote for him again.
Campaign rhetoric works miracles on feebs.
Bush is running again?
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Uccello posted:
combat_mage_sc posted:
Retards with ADD will forget how he ran the country into the ground, ruined our credit score and vote for him again.
Campaign rhetoric works miracles on feebs.
Bush is running again?
Or he is talking about himself, hard to know.
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Jezza_Belle posted:
I don't think many people are going to care that his father was Mexican, might get him a few more Mexican votes, but in my experience they are generally strict Catholics that feel very strongly about Mormons.
Too bad he has zero appeal to atheists, because we're one of the few groups who don't find mormonism to be any stupider than any other brand of religion.
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BritonGuy posted:
Romney is a rich elite socialist championed by Fox News.
I never thought I'd say this to anyone ever, but you obviously don't watch fox news.
Spoiler alert: they've been demonizing him more than the left has, though that might have been tempered a bit lately as he becomes more obviously the de facto nominee.
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Chogram posted:
It doesn't matter.
Nobody is beating Obama in this election and the GOP knows it.
They are just going to use this election to position themselves for next time.
This. And it's not because Obama is a rockstar or anything like that, either. The GOP simply does not have frontrunner material; they've been lost ever since Bush left office.
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Anebriated posted:
lol, that proves what? JFK =\= romney.
could romney pull off this speech?
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16920600
You mean when he did exactly that in 2007?
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/romneys_mormon_speech/
An excerpt:
When I place my hand on the Bible and take the oath of office, that oath becomes my highest promise to God. If I am fortunate to become your president, I will serve no one religion, no one group, no one cause, and no one interest. A President must serve only the common cause of the people of the United States.
There are some who would have a presidential candidate describe and explain his church’s distinctive doctrines. To do so would enable the very religious test the founders prohibited in the constitution. No candidate should become the spokesman for his faith. For if he becomes President he will need the prayers of the people of all faiths.
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NeoKarnak posted:
Element_X posted:
BritonGuy posted:
Romney is a rich elite socialist championed by Fox News. Ron Paul is much more electable than him.
Fox News is for Santorum. Murdock has publicly stated hes supporting him and if you were objective at all you would see that. Also, in 99% of polls Ron Paul is destroyed in a head-to-head with Obama, whereas with Romney in most polls he's either beating Obama or tied. I don't know what planet you Ron Paul people live on, but obviously reality doesn't exist there.
Romney is a technocrat, a pragmatist, which is why he comes off as robotic. He doesn't give rousing inspiring speeches. He's cautious, not brash. Its true though that the average bovine american voter is too shallow to recognize or appreciate this. They want the hollywood feel-good story. They typically vote for the most "likeable" guy. But look where that has got us. GW Bush was more likeable than Gore - in a nutshell thats what put him over the top. Same with Clinton before him. And now, we have a likeable personality as President who is very good at making rousing speeches, and making bold promises, and he's in way over his head, and borderline dangerous.
I think this country needs a boring, pragmatic, technocratic leader for a change.
Wow...no he wasn't.
Gore in 2000 was a lot more uptight than Gore >2000, so it's debatable. Bush was definitely more likable than Kerry.
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Arc_DT posted:
Anebriated posted:
lol, that proves what? JFK =\= romney.
could romney pull off this speech?
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16920600
You mean when he did exactly that in 2007?
i'm going to go with: if he pulled it off in 2007, then why is his mormonism still an issue now? answer: cuz he's a robot who can't cry.
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Anebriated posted:
then why is his mormonism still an issue now?
Because it's something the media can use to try to divide their political opponents, conservatives.
Rho
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if only he could woo the media. BUT HES A STEEL MAN
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Heh, Republicans better hope that he is because I don't think anyone can unseat him for the nomination.
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Rhodoman posted:
Anebriated posted:
then why is his mormonism still an issue now?
Because it's something the media can use to try to divide their political opponents, conservatives.
Rho
The media lol
Cain and Bachmann would even acknowledge a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, the first church to name itself after Jesus, is a Christian.
This is not some made up issue this is the religious right wing being itself
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In an interview with CNN's Candy Crowley, tea-party favorites Michele Bachmann and Herman Cain repeatedly dodged questions on whethr they believe Mitt Romney is christian.
Cain said he is "not running for theologian in chief," while Bachmann said that "to make this a big issue right now is just ridiculous."
Crowley asked both candidates if they were aware they had dodged the question and both said they were okay with that.
"The Media" is exactly the only reason this is being pushed as an issue.
Rho
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They reported something that happened - That's near criminal behavior !
"and both said they were okay with that" - that's right they both agreed they dodged the question. Truth reported, Rho upset-ed.
If you watched Cain and Bachmann react to the question you'd see the report was mild
I'm sure griping about the media after a day of Limbaugh, Huckabee, and Beck doesn't strike you as absurd but really they are media.
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Rhodoman posted:
In an interview with CNN's Candy Crowley, tea-party favorites Michele Bachmann and Herman Cain repeatedly dodged questions on whethr they believe Mitt Romney is christian.
Cain said he is "not running for theologian in chief," while Bachmann said that "to make this a big issue right now is just ridiculous."
Crowley asked both candidates if they were aware they had dodged the question and both said they were okay with that.
"The liberal Media" is exactly the only reason this is being pushed as an issue.
Rho
fixed
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Argh! LIBERALS!
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Frankly the press reported this and moved on quickly. I harp on it because it amuses me that the church with the best case for being Christian, that is the first to name themselves after Christ, is looked down upon by the others.
With Bachmann and Cain the real question is will religicons sit our rather than vote for a Mormon?
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Kanga_Roo posted:
They reported something that happened - That's near criminal behavior !
It wasn't a report of something that happened, it was Crowly asking a question to see if she could get them to answer in a way that divided the republican party. It wasn't based on some speech or official statement either of those candidates had made. She didn't say, "So, I hear that you're stump speech includes a slam of Romney as "Not a Christian", what's that all about?".
Candy is making news rather than reporting news.
Rho
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Rhodoman posted:
Kanga_Roo posted:
They reported something that happened - That's near criminal behavior !
It wasn't a report of something that happened, it was Crowly asking a question to see if she could get them to answer in a way that divided the republican party. It wasn't based on some speech or official statement either of those candidates had made. She didn't say, "So, I hear that you're stump speech includes a slam of Romney as "Not a Christian", what's that all about?".
Candy is making news rather than reporting news.
Rho
Waah!
These two milked the Christian label every chance they got. The question was fair.
"The Media" is a cop out used by candidates who can't handle softball questions.
Q: Is Mitt Romney a Christian?
A: That's a question for Mitt, not me. If you'd like to ask me about my religious views I am happy to discuss them
End of story.
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Kanga_Roo posted:
Waah!
These two milked the Christian label every chance they got. The question was fair.
"The Media" is a cop out used by candidates who can't handle softball questions.
Q: Is Mitt Romney a Christian?
A: That's a question for Mitt, not me. If you'd like to ask me about my religious views I am happy to discuss them
End of story.
Which was basically the answer they gave, only to be given the headline "Candidates dodge question!!!"
Rho
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I watched the interviews. That was not the answer they gave. They both agreed with the statement made in the headline. Neither of them were presidential material and I am not sure who of the republicon pack is. Maybe someone will surprise me. I hope so because Obama's best argument is "look at the alternative"
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Re-watch them. Crowley went and found some pastor who called Mitt a non-christian and then asked if they agreed. A question the dodged very much the same way that you suggested.
Rho
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It is Saturday nite I am am not into minutiae. I'll just agree that's the way you see it. Maybe someday you'll agree that "unfair" questions are par for the course when you are running for President. How you handle those questions tells people a lot about you.
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Rhodoman posted:
Re-watch them. Crowley went and found some pastor who called Mitt a non-christian and then asked if they agreed. A question the dodged very much the same way that you suggested.
Rho
Wake up and pay attention. Crowley didn't "find" s**t. Reverend Jackass introduce Perry at a conservative conference in Texas, walked outside, and told anyone who would listen that Mormonism is a cult and Romney isn't christian.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/08/us/politics/prominent-pastor-calls-romneys-church-a-cult.html
I suggest you use something other than Fox to determine what's actually going on here on this planet.
And for the record, us democrats have had a mormon as our senate leader for several years now, and have no problem with his religion, magical underwear and everything.
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Arc_DT posted:
I suggest you use something other than Fox to determine what's actually going on here on this planet.
These are the kinds of assumptions that keep you from being taken seriously.
Rho
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You know Rho you can gloss over it all you want but the Republicons do have a problem with their religious, libertarian, and business-like (old school republican) factions. They don't like each other at all. Romney and his religion is just one example.
Beating Obama should be a no-brainer with the economy where it is. Instead we have a Republicon party divided and if I were a Republicon I would be trying to unite the team around the very real possibility that the Democrats will have both houses and the Presidency soon.
Romney is probably the best of the pack but the real problem is that the pack overall is pretty mediocre. I voted for Reagan and then grew to dislike his polcies. I still liked him. If I had the choice of a beer with GWB or Al Gore I wouldn't have to think long. Again I hate GWBs policies but as a likeable beer drinking buddy I think he wins there. Al Gore would just dpress me.
None of the Repulicon field have that sort of charisma or likeability. Right or wrong that is important to win the Presidency.
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I'd be happier if Romney were more conservative than he is and had been more consistent in his political past, but he'll do as an alternative to Obama, for me, any day of the week (as would Gingrich).
I think that Santorum and Bachmann's (and to some extent, Perry's) social conservatism do make them less electable in the general election. However, the idea that a large block of evangelical christians will somehow refuse to vote for a mormon is ridiculous and is only being repeatedly brought up by the left to try to make up controversy where non really exists.
Rho
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Rhodoman posted:
Re-watch them. Crowley went and found some pastor who called Mitt a non-christian and then asked if they agreed. A question the dodged very much the same way that you suggested.
Rho
No they really didn't. Neither of them answered the question the way I suggested. My response was simple, short, and did not imply anything about Romney's religious status.
You need to re-watch the interviews, or read the text.
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/david/cain-bachmann-refuse-say-romney-christian
For one thing Cain distinguished Mormonism as separate from Christianity. He should not have touched it at all.
Bachmann dodged the question but talked about religious tolerance but if Romney is a Christian why is there a need for tolerance?
This all came up because three candidates especially Perry, Bachmann, and Cain, made a big deal out of their Christian credentials. A pastor introducing Perry had some choice words about the first religion to actually name themselves after Christ. Mormons have the best claim to the term "Christian" but they don't make a lot of noise about it like the evangelicals.
-------------------------------------------
"I'm not running for theologian in chief," Cain declared. "I'm a lifelong Christian. And what that means is that one of my guiding principles for decisions I make is I start with 'do the right thing.' I'm not getting into that controversy."
"But it will still beg the question that you dodged a direct question: Is Mitt Romney not a Christian?" Crowley asked.
"He's a Mormon, that much I know," Cain replied. "I am not going to do an analysis of Mormonism versus Christianity for the sake of answering that. I'm not getting into that..."
"Even knowing that it will looking like you are dodging it?" Crowley wondered.
"If that's what it looks like, I'm dodging it because it's not going to help us boost this economy and you know it," Cain said, adding that someone's religion was a "valid concern" when selecting a president.
Crowley later posed the same question to Bachmann.
"We have religious tolerance," the Minnesota Republican explained. "We understand that people have different views on their faith, and I have a very sincerely held view on faith and I think we just leave it at that."
"You know that by not answering the direct question -- 'Do you think you think that Mitt Romney is a Christian?' -- you leave open the possibility that people are going to say you dodged a direct question?" Crowley noted.
"No, I think what the real focus is here, again, that on religious tolerance," Bachmann argued. "That's really what this is about."
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Rhodoman posted:
I'd be happier if Romney were more conservative than he is and had been more consistent in his political past, but he'll do as an alternative to Obama, for me, any day of the week (as would Gingrich).
I think that Santorum and Bachmann's (and to some extent, Perry's) social conservatism do make them less electable in the general election. However, the idea that a large block of evangelical christians will somehow refuse to vote for a mormon is ridiculous and is only being repeatedly brought up by the left to try to make up controversy where non really exists.
Rho
You are not on the extreme list Rho. You are not an extreme religiocon or libertarian. The Republicons need not worry about you. You'll weigh the candidates and choose the one who is closest to your point of view. It's the ones who don't vote or who vote third party because they didn't get their way in the primaries that the Republicns should worry about. There seems to be a lot of religocons, currently flocking to Santorum, and libertarians (Ron Paul) who will not be motivated by Romney. Leadership by people like Santorum, Giingrich, and Paul would help. I don't mean roll over but play like someone who wants to lead a team and if not at lead keep the team together and support the one who does lead.
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Arc_DT
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Rhodoman posted:
Arc_DT posted:
I suggest you use something other than Fox to determine what's actually going on here on this planet.
These are the kinds of assumptions that keep you from being taken seriously.
Rho
Your only excuses on that fiasco were ignorance or stupidity. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're not just a blathering moron. I guess I was wrong.
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Uccello
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LOL at the repubs even trying to preach tolerance on any level. They hate gays, any non white christian people (including Obama who is their main target), any religion that can not be called christian right up front with no question, they hate the poor (like the ones cleaning up their crap every nite to feed families), they hate anyone that thinks personal rights are trumped by their wishes to control.
Romney is the repub candidate, play all the games you want but unless god forbid santorum pulls some magic Romney is in. He will get stomped by obama but the repubs have rose colored glasses thinking they can beat him.
The only thing the repubs want is to be allowed to stomp into the ground freedom of choice, any tax responsibility for corporations that are busy sending jobs overseas. They want to have their noses stuck in every aspect of every American including what happens in the bedrooms.
The ONLY tolerance they have is when one of them gets caught playing with the congressional pages, their secretary or anyone else. Then they want tolerance when they prance in front of the cameras with their trophy wives and plead for tolerance and forgiveness. What a joke. I am hoping this is the death throws of the repubs. Maybe these banner holders of this particular group of morons will learn something. I doubt it tho.
And no the dems are not much better but at least they were able to elect a black president (albeit half black) and are willing to at least show SOME respect for the office of the president.
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Rhodoman
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I completely agree that a large part of Mitt's chances of beating Obama will be what Ron Paul, Newt Gingrich and Rick Santoram say to their supporters when they concede the nomination to Romney.
A third party run or a large number of sulky ultra-cons staying home in November is the easiest way to lose the election for the Republicans.
Rho
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Rho, you just better start preparing yourself for another 4 years of the current guy. It isnt looking too good for your side of the political isle...
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-VanDraegon- posted:
Rho, you just better start preparing yourself for another 4 years of the current guy. It isnt looking too good for your side of the political isle...
Bah - its a long way out. Economic data, events in Iraq and Afghanistan, and Supreme Court rulings are all going to effect how this goes down.
The one thing I do find interesting though is the new brand of Republicon primary "candidate" who really is running to sell books and get hired by a media outlet. Huckabee and the half governor both did it and now people are seeing a nice career in being a failed candidate.
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It is a long way out, certainly. I am just looking at the GOP field and frankly, i just dont see it happening. By the time the election rolls around, Obama is going to be in full swing and will have rallied all his supporters back to the cause. The GOP offerings are too bland and too establishment. Romney is going to get painted with the big money, Wall street brush and it is gonna hurt time bad. Especially with this current OWS vibe going around.
Kanga_Roo posted:
The one thing I do find interesting though is the new brand of Republicon primary "candidate" who really is running to sell books and get hired by a media outlet. Huckabee and the half governor both did it and now people are seeing a nice career in being a failed candidate.
Yeah. I am not a fan of it myself. Just more abuse of the US political system, imo. Money, money, money. It is all about money anymore. Our country is continuing to circle the bowl on its way down and everything is still about money and personal gain.
I am so sick of the state of politics in the country it really dont follow it anymore and frankly dont care who wins. It is all the same. We are heading to our Blade Runner future...
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This just in: it's *always* been about the money.
Rho
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I know it has always been about the money, Rho. However, the money is getting bigger and bigger each cycle. So save the smart ass obvious comments for someone else please.
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Romney is for zero capital gains taxes in the age of the "Buffet rule." I think he might have a chance if he wanted to hold that rate steady, including even wanting the republican mantra of making the Bush tax cuts permanent (which included a 20%->15% reduction in the capital gains rate plus the 10% low-end tax bracket), but I don't think a wallstreeter crying for FURTHER capital gains tax cuts in this environment is going to fly in the general.
One can see why he refuses to release his tax returns.
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Romney is far from perfect. But I'll take him in a heartbeat over obama.
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Taxing capital gains is fair because it is INCOME just like wages are income.
If we are going to hail investors as people who make things happen in the economy by enabling businesses to create jobs, we need to recognize that the gain they make from those investments are income earned from taking a chance on the investment.
Just like the rest of the income tax rates, though, it should be low and FIXED and the same for everybody regardless of how much money they make. Most importantly, it must be permanent so that the economy can get on with the process of planning what they are going to do and how many people they are likely to hire.
Taxing dividends does *not* make sense because they are shared company profits that have already been taxed at the corporate level. If you did away with the corporate income tax, taxing dividends would then be fair.
Rho
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Rhodoman posted:
...Taxing dividends does *not* make sense because they are shared company profits that have already been taxed at the corporate level...Rho
Sophistry.
Your boss pays taxes. Your boss pays you. You pay taxes. Clearly this is double taxation and you should be exempt. That's your logic applied to benefit the working class. The Republicons have a lot of seemingly logical reasons the wealthy should get tax breaks but try to give one to the workers and you get a tea party tantrum.
Dividends are INCOME. Corporations are formed for a lot of reasons, one of which is to handle taxes. Don't like the fall out - buy back your corporation and run it as a privately owned. There is a reason people choose to form corporations and it isn't because corporations are oppressed. Corporations want to have their cake and shove it up our asses too.
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Nope. Dividends are profit AFTER taxes.
The money the boss pays me is an operating expense to him that he does NOT pay tax on, therefore, I have to pay tax on it.
Rho
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Kanga_Roo posted:
Rhodoman posted:
...Taxing dividends does *not* make sense because they are shared company profits that have already been taxed at the corporate level...Rho
Sophistry.
Your boss pays taxes. Your boss pays you. You pay taxes. Clearly this is double taxation and you should be exempt. That's your logic applied to benefit the working class. The Republicons have a lot of seemingly logical reasons the wealthy should get tax breaks but try to give one to the workers and you get a tea party tantrum.
Dividends are INCOME. Corporations are formed for a lot of reasons, one of which is to handle taxes. Don't like the fall out - buy back your corporation and run it as a privately owned. There is a reason people choose to form corporations and it isn't because corporations are oppressed. Corporations want to have their cake and shove it up our asses too.
Rhodoman posted:
Nope. Dividends are profit AFTER taxes.
The money the boss pays me is an operating expense to him that he does NOT pay tax on, therefore, I have to pay tax on it.
Rho
awww Kanga... awwww [sad_trombone]
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combat_mage_sc posted:
Retards with ADD will forget how he ran the country into the ground, ruined our credit score and vote for him again.
Campaign rhetoric works miracles on feebs.
It figures, first thing they do to is cut credit to a black man.
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HALF black man. 
his wife is more black than he is
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People who don't know shiz about taxes love to pretend to be experts on the matter.
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It doesnt matter BT has alread told us that Ron Paul is winning NH and SC so this is all moot.
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JD_HOGG posted:
People who don't know shiz about taxes love to pretend to be experts on the matter.
It's the ACF way!
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Dammit, can we all get back to whining about the liberal media???
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The question was simple, the answers were cowardly.
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If america can vote for a black, kenyan muslim, then they can vote for a white, american mormon.
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I don't see Ron Paul supporters willing to vote for Romney, even if Ron Paul says that's what they should do. There are many people who support Ron Paul who are not libertarians, they are just sick of the abuse that's been going on in our government.
I'm voting 3rd party if Romney and Obama are the choices I have, if only to spite the Republican party. If enough people do that it may force them to open their eyes to the reality that their policies are straight-up terrible (I can dream right?).
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Ex-remlocke posted:
I'm voting 3rd party if Romney and Obama are the choices I have, if only to spite the Republican party. If enough people do that it may force them to open their eyes to the reality that their policies are straight-up terrible (I can dream right?).
You're not alone.
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If people grew some balls and voted for Ron Paul, they could lay a major smackdown that the establishment would be forced to hear. Instead we have a bunch of whiners without said balls who will whine some more when it's Romney vs Obama.
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Ex-remlocke posted:
I don't see Ron Paul supporters willing to vote for Romney, even if Ron Paul says that's what they should do. There are many people who support Ron Paul who are not libertarians, they are just sick of the abuse that's been going on in our government.
Yet you have no problem voting for Paul who is polling the worst of any GOP candidate among everyone as far as who I wouldnt vote for if they ran? You are so full of contradiction its hard to even understand what you stand for.
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Cuttlery posted:
Ex-remlocke posted:
I don't see Ron Paul supporters willing to vote for Romney, even if Ron Paul says that's what they should do. There are many people who support Ron Paul who are not libertarians, they are just sick of the abuse that's been going on in our government.
Yet you have no problem voting for Paul who is polling the worst of any GOP candidate among everyone as far as who I wouldnt vote for if they ran? You are so full of contradiction its hard to even understand what you stand for.
Wow, you really are on my nuts as of late. Yes, I have no problem voting for Ron Paul because his voting record says he will veto the Patriot Act (hope that makes you happy). What contradictions do I have? I'd like to hear them.
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Ron Paul is currently the 3rd best in the Republican primaries, and 2nd if you admit Santorum has no chance countrywide.
He'd be 1st if people grew a pair and started voting how they talk.
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Anebriated posted:
awkward robots don't become presidents. millions of americans are voting by their gut, and their guts don't like romney.
True, GWB was appointed by the supreme court and then stole the next election through vote fraud. And no on can beat the guy who got Bin Laden.
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Ex-remlocke posted:
Wow, you really are on my nuts as of late. Yes, I have no problem voting for Ron Paul because his voting record says he will veto the Patriot Act (hope that makes you happy). What contradictions do I have? I'd like to hear them.
Lets see, you say vote for Ron Paul because he is the only one that can beat Obama. Polling shows he is least favorable among voters to actually beat Obama.
You like him for smaller government and less spending, Ron Paul is for bigger government and spends like a teenage girl in a shoe store.
Instead of parroting all this stuff thats just crap why dont you just say, I am voting for Ron Paul because he voted against the Patriot Act and I have no idea what else he actually stands for.
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Cuttlery posted:
Ex-remlocke posted:
Wow, you really are on my nuts as of late. Yes, I have no problem voting for Ron Paul because his voting record says he will veto the Patriot Act (hope that makes you happy). What contradictions do I have? I'd like to hear them.
Lets see, you say vote for Ron Paul because he is the only one that can beat Obama. Polling shows he is least favorable among voters to actually beat Obama.
You like him for smaller government and less spending, Ron Paul is for bigger government and spends like a teenage girl in a shoe store.
Instead of parroting all this stuff thats just crap why dont you just say, I am voting for Ron Paul because he voted against the Patriot Act and I have no idea what else he actually stands for.
I'd like to see the polling data where it says that he's least favorable to beat Obama. He's the only GOP candidate that will draw Moderate and Democratic votes. I don't see the general Republican base not voting for him simply because of the fact that he's running against Obama, who they hate. Ron Paul supporters actually have convictions other than someone besides Obama, so I don't see them returning the favor. Ron Paul is certainly a gamble versus Obama but I think Romney is a sure loss due to his inability to draw swing voters.
Ron Paul says he's for smaller government, and he has published a plan to do that (http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/ron-paul-plan-to-restore-america/). Ron Paul has a bad earmark record, I'll give you that, but that spending is so miniscule that it doesn't bother me. Either way I'll take my chances on Ron Paul over Obama who has no intentions of reducing government size.
I know you'd love to drag me down to Aerlinthian and BT's level but your obsession isn't gonna work on me. Sorry.
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http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2012/01/07/romney-unbeatable-in-nh-most-have-unfavorable-view-of-ron-paul/
Even better news for Romney in the poll was that respondents said he was the candidate they trusted most. A total of 32% said they had a “very favorable†view of Romney compared to just 17% for Paul and 20% for Santorum. Only 11% viewed Romney unfavorably, while Rick Perry got 39% of the unfavorable vote, followed by Newt Gingrich at 32% and Ron Paul at 23%.
A total of 52% of people saw Ron Paul as somewhat unfavorable to very unfavorable in the poll. However, he was viewed better than Gingrich and Perry.
he is actually up from the last poll, so I was slightly off, still shows he has horrid chances in comparison to most everyone else.
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_BlackAdder_ posted:
Anebriated posted:
awkward robots don't become presidents. millions of americans are voting by their gut, and their guts don't like romney.
True, GWB was appointed by the supreme court and then stole the next election through vote fraud. And no on can beat the guy who got Bin Laden.
If you have evidence of election fraud why don't you bring it to the authorities?
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Cuttlery posted:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2012/01/07/romney-unbeatable-in-nh-most-have-unfavorable-view-of-ron-paul/
Even better news for Romney in the poll was that respondents said he was the candidate they trusted most. A total of 32% said they had a “very favorable†view of Romney compared to just 17% for Paul and 20% for Santorum. Only 11% viewed Romney unfavorably, while Rick Perry got 39% of the unfavorable vote, followed by Newt Gingrich at 32% and Ron Paul at 23%.
A total of 52% of people saw Ron Paul as somewhat unfavorable to very unfavorable in the poll. However, he was viewed better than Gingrich and Perry.
he is actually up from the last poll, so I was slightly off, still shows he has horrid chances in comparison to most everyone else.
1) That poll doesn't state whether they were polling Republican or Democratic voters, but it leads me to believe it's only Republican voters so it wouldn't account for Democratic voters who would vote for him
2) It appears that the poll was for NH residents only
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Ex-remlocke posted:
Cuttlery posted:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2012/01/07/romney-unbeatable-in-nh-most-have-unfavorable-view-of-ron-paul/
Even better news for Romney in the poll was that respondents said he was the candidate they trusted most. A total of 32% said they had a “very favorable†view of Romney compared to just 17% for Paul and 20% for Santorum. Only 11% viewed Romney unfavorably, while Rick Perry got 39% of the unfavorable vote, followed by Newt Gingrich at 32% and Ron Paul at 23%.
A total of 52% of people saw Ron Paul as somewhat unfavorable to very unfavorable in the poll. However, he was viewed better than Gingrich and Perry.
he is actually up from the last poll, so I was slightly off, still shows he has horrid chances in comparison to most everyone else.
1) That poll doesn't state whether they were polling Republican or Democratic voters, but it leads me to believe it's only Republican voters so it wouldn't account for Democratic voters who would vote for him
2) It appears that the poll was for NH residents only
So you think Dems that would vote for Paul trump the 50some odd percent of GOP voters that wouldnt?...
Also you can check other polling numbers everywhere else, they are all the same.
Again not that it matters, you've shown over and over you dont really know a lot about Paul aside from "didnt vote for the Patriot Act" and you pretty much are going to believe anything you are told to believe.
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Cuttlery posted:
Ex-remlocke posted:
Cuttlery posted:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2012/01/07/romney-unbeatable-in-nh-most-have-unfavorable-view -of-ron-paul/
Even better news for Romney in the poll was that respondents said he was the candidate they trusted most. A total of 32% said they had a “very favorable†view of Romney compared to just 17% for Paul and 20% for Santorum. Only 11% viewed Romney unfavorably, while Rick Perry got 39% of the unfavorable vote, followed by Newt Gingrich at 32% and Ron Paul at 23%.
A total of 52% of people saw Ron Paul as somewhat unfavorable to very unfavorable in the poll. However, he was viewed better than Gingrich and Perry.
he is actually up from the last poll, so I was slightly off, still shows he has horrid chances in comparison to most everyone else.
1) That poll doesn't state whether they were polling Republican or Democratic voters, but it leads me to believe it's only Republican voters so it wouldn't account for Democratic voters who would vote for him
2) It appears that the poll was for NH residents only
So you think Dems that would vote for Paul trump the 50some odd percent of GOP voters that wouldnt?...
Also you can check other polling numbers everywhere else, they are all the same.
Again not that it matters, you've shown over and over you dont really know a lot about Paul aside from "didnt vote for the Patriot Act" and you pretty much are going to believe anything you are told to believe.
BT and Aerlinthian must not be posting much lately, it's obvious your anti-Paul obsession isn't getting filled so you've decided to latch onto me.
And I'm not sure where you got that 50% of GOP voters wouldn't vote for Paul. Just because 50% of voters viewed him as unfavorable in NEW HAMPSHIRE (which borders Romney's home state) doesn't mean the general populace is going to be the same way.
This national poll doesn't help really help my case much but it shows that Paul leads in independent voters over Romney by 2%, is tied for Democratic voters, and is only 2 points behind Romney on the overall vote. It also says 81% of GOP voters would vote for Paul over Obama, a far cry from your 50%. But polls really aren't that trustworthy and I don't place a lot of stock in them. I do know that Ron Paul has a very strong web presence which could be a game-changer amongst the youth vote.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57355518-503544/poll-among-gop-hopefuls-romney-fares-best-against-obama/
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Ex-remlocke posted:
BT and Aerlinthian must not be posting much lately, it's obvious your anti-Paul obsession isn't getting filled so you've decided to latch onto me.
And I'm not sure where you got that 50% of GOP voters wouldn't vote for Paul. Just because 50% of voters viewed him as unfavorable in NEW HAMPSHIRE (which borders Romney's home state) doesn't mean the general populace is going to be the same way.
This one doesn't help my case much but it shows that Paul leads in independent voters over Romney and is tied for Democratic voters and is only slightly behind Romney on the overall vote. But polls really aren't that trustworthy and I don't place a lot of stock in them. I do know that Ron Paul has a very strong web presence which could be a game-changer.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57355518-503544/poll-among-gop-hopefuls-romney-fares-best-against-obama/
Ron Paul has a strong web presence because of spam bots and college students who dont vote.
http://sdrostra.com/?p=16739
There are about a bazillion articles on this as well, but again, you dont care to know that because Ron Paul voted against the Patriot Act.
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So now I'm being attacked because I care more about Civil Liberties than you? Now I'm really feeling the heat, I'm sorry that I've managed to hold onto some of my values :[
And I'm not talking about online polls when I say web presence. I'm referring to how many supporters I see on sites such as reddit (which has a very good anti-spam mechanism and has 28 million unique visitors each month, most of whom are American ) and on my facebook feed. And yes, I realize that isn't an exact science but I NEVER see any other GOP candidates viewed favorably.
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Ex-remlocke posted:
So now I'm being attacked because I care more about Civil Liberties than you? Now I'm really feeling the heat, I'm sorry that I've managed to hold onto some of my values :[
You also cared about bigger government, smaller deficit, his web presence, how he is the only GOPer running that can win etc etc...
You can say you are voting for him because he didnt vote for the Patriot Act and just leave it at that since thats all you appear to actually know. You keep throwing other crap out there though, and then excusing it away when its not accurate, its making you look like you have no idea what Ron Paul actually stands for.
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BritonGuy posted:
_BlackAdder_ posted:
Anebriated posted:
awkward robots don't become presidents. millions of americans are voting by their gut, and their guts don't like romney.
True, GWB was appointed by the supreme court and then stole the next election through vote fraud. And no on can beat the guy who got Bin Laden.
If you have evidence of election fraud why don't you bring it to the authorities?
Do your own research
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Dear Cutt,
Please read what I just posted earlier in this thread. Your obsession is clouding your reading ability.
Ex-remlocke posted:
Ron Paul says he's for smaller government, and he has published a plan to do that (http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/ron-paul-plan-to-restore-america/). Ron Paul has a bad earmark record, I'll give you that, but that spending is so miniscule that it doesn't bother me. Either way I'll take my chances on Ron Paul over Obama who has no intentions of reducing government size.
Read what you posted here, it makes you look stupid:
Cuttlery posted:
So you think Dems that would vote for Paul trump the 50some odd percent of GOP voters that wouldnt?...
Also you can check other polling numbers everywhere else, they are all the same.
What you posted is completely wrong, yet you keep harassing me about facts and not knowing anything.
I'm not afraid to say when I've made a mistake or I misinterpreted something. Why can't you do the same?
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Ron Paul says he's for smaller government,
And this is where you fail. Ron Paul says a lot and never done it. Obama says he is for smaller government and also never does. Romney says he is for smaller government and never does it, whats the difference?
Again, you are voting for fairy tales and dont actually know anything about Ron Paul in reality except. He didnt vote for the Patriot Act.
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Cuttlery posted:
Ron Paul says he's for smaller government,
And this is where you fail. Ron Paul says a lot and never done it. Obama says he is for smaller government and also never does. Romney says he is for smaller government and never does it, whats the difference?
Again, you are voting for fairy tales and dont actually know anything about Ron Paul in reality except. He didnt vote for the Patriot Act.
The difference? Obama voted for and then later signed the Patriot Act. Romney openly supports the Patriot Act. Again, I apologize for caring about Civil Liberties, it's a real shortcoming of mine, I know.
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_BlackAdder_ posted:
BritonGuy posted:
_BlackAdder_ posted:
True, GWB was appointed by the supreme court and then stole the next election through vote fraud. And no on can beat the guy who got Bin Laden.
If you have evidence of election fraud why don't you bring it to the authorities?
Do your own research
Thanks for the suggestion. I just did my own research and what I came up with was that Bush was a well liked and successful president, legendary in his support for democracy.
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Knock it, you two!
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Ex-remlocke posted:
Cuttlery posted:
Ron Paul says he's for smaller government,
And this is where you fail. Ron Paul says a lot and never done it. Obama says he is for smaller government and also never does. Romney says he is for smaller government and never does it, whats the difference?
Again, you are voting for fairy tales and dont actually know anything about Ron Paul in reality except. He didnt vote for the Patriot Act.
The difference? Obama voted for and then later signed the Patriot Act. Romney openly supports the Patriot Act. Again, I apologize for caring about Civil Liberties, it's a real shortcoming of mine, I know.
Which all comes back to you care about the patriot act and that's all you know about Paul. Like I said if that's all you are basing your vote on that's fine. But don't bring up the smaller government, less deficit, his electability, or any of the crap you don't know anything about, it's making you look like you are a blind follower.
I actually applaud Paul on his no vote on the Patriot Act, unfortunately it brings up other issues such as why has he actually never done anything to further Civil Liberties. This brings into question his actual leadership and resolve. Paul says a lot but does little, his motivation for voting against the Patriot Act kind of makes me wonder if its for votes or because of the civil liberties thing, and if the latter why has he done nothing to amend it.
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Cuttlery posted:
Ex-remlocke posted:
Cuttlery posted:
Ron Paul says he's for smaller government,
And this is where you fail. Ron Paul says a lot and never done it. Obama says he is for smaller government and also never does. Romney says he is for smaller government and never does it, whats the difference?
Again, you are voting for fairy tales and dont actually know anything about Ron Paul in reality except. He didnt vote for the Patriot Act.
The difference? Obama voted for and then later signed the Patriot Act. Romney openly supports the Patriot Act. Again, I apologize for caring about Civil Liberties, it's a real shortcoming of mine, I know.
Which all comes back to you care about the patriot act and that's all you know about Paul. Like I said if that's all you are basing your vote on that's fine. But don't bring up the smaller government, less deficit, his electability, or any of the crap you don't know anything about, it's making you look like you are a blind follower.
Look, it's ACF. I'm not going to write up an essay on what I know about Paul. I've admitted where I was lacking in knowledge so I'm not sure what else you want. And his electability is still up for debate, as the the latest poll indicated. And yes I will continue to bring up smaller government, what the hell do you think a veto of the Patriot Act would be?
But enough about me Cutt, I'd really love to hear about who YOU support for President, as I'm sure there's plenty to talk about there.
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Ex-remlocke posted:
But enough about me Cutt, I'd really love to hear about who YOU support for President, as I'm sure there's plenty to talk about there.
I dunno yet. I know who it will not be.
Obama, too liberal, I applaud some of his foreign policy decisions but he is way too deep for the entitlements.
Romney, basically Obama but white.
Paul, stands for nothing, too much flip floppery. No leadership skills.
Gingrich, he is just a mess.
Santorum, too jesus.
Not really sure, too much research to do and too much time left. Will probably be some 3rd party candidate.
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Cuttlery posted:
Romney, basically Obama but white.
The only sane thing you've posted in this thread.
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Cuttlery posted:
Ron Paul says he's for smaller government,
And this is where you fail. Ron Paul says a lot and never done it. Obama says he is for smaller government and also never does. Romney says he is for smaller government and never does it, whats the difference?
Come on, Cutt. You're ignoring all the big figures in history that rose to leadership and then voluntarily disbanded it.
Like..... um...... like that one.... the.... wait.. no.....
Oh there's not? Hmm. Well surely he isn't just ANOTHER politician sitting in our giant, ineffective pool of them.
Oh he is? Hmm.
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Clinton made the Govt. smaller and you Republicans for the most part hated him with a passion, unlike the Republican Presidents so many of you adore who made the US federal govt. bigger.
I don't know what is worse them for fooling you, or you for being fools.
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BritonGuy posted:
_BlackAdder_ posted:
BritonGuy posted:
[quote=_BlackAdder_]
True, GWB was appointed by the supreme court and then stole the next election through vote fraud. And no on can beat the guy who got Bin Laden.
If you have evidence of election fraud why don't you bring it to the authorities?
Do your own research
Thanks for the suggestion. I just did my own research and what I came up with was that Bush was a well liked and successful president, legendary in his support for democracy.[/quote]
Well then it appears you need to go back to high school and learn to do research again
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Uccello posted:
Well then it appears you need to go back to high school and learn to do research again
Why would a high school have evidence of election fraud?
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