paulg_68
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Suppose I have 2 lights. One is 12 volts / 20 watts. The other is 120 volts / 20 watts.
Both run off of a regular electrical outlet. Obviously the 12/20 one has something internal to the light that converts from 120 volts to 20.
My question is, do they consume the same amount of electricity?
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BubbleDude
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paulg_68 posted:
My question is, do they consume the same amount of electricity?
Is the 20 watts the light output rating, or the actual draw?
If it's draw, it's the same for both. If it's light output there's not enough unfo to answer your question
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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paulg_68 posted:
Electricity question
It's that stuff that comes out of the outlet and shocks you.
You're welcome.
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Halloweve
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yes, they do.
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IMHO
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the 12v 20w consumes more
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Halloweve
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It depends on the transformer used doing the conversion to 12 volt.
As the transformer ages the power usage does increase.
With the right transformer they can be made the same.
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Taliesihne
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Bulb choice is important as well. Are both light bulbs the same?
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IMHO
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Halloweve posted:
It depends on the transformer used doing the conversion to 12 volt.
As the transformer ages the power usage does increase.
With the right transformer they can be made the same.
Converting 120 down to 12 uses electricity no matter how you cut it.
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Huges07.1
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Stick your finger in each socket. No, really! One will hurt moar than the other.
b a man
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Halloweve
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Yes, IMHO...but power usage can be made equal.
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Elkad
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A watt is a watt is a watt.
The only question was covered above. Is it a 20w bulb in a 12v socket? (meaning the 120v>12v transformer uses a bit of extra power). Or does the whole thing use 20w (which means w/equal efficiency, the low-voltage one will put out less light).
And it's winter anyway. Just use a regular bulb until you turn the heat off for the summer, it's cheaper.
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__Bonk__
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How many amps?
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IMHO
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__Bonk__ posted:
How many amps?
12v / 20w = 1.67amps
120v / 20w = 0.167amps
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__Bonk__
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Therefore I would say the exact same amount because I think amps have to do with the number of electrons
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sweeny_comodore
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e over i x r
i could troubleshoot the circuit and repair it as needed but im not an electrical engineer and i hate doing math too much to bother trying to figure out the answer to this.
but i agree with whomever said it depends on the transformer in the socket that converts 120 to 12v
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cherrim
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V = I * R
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sweeny_comodore
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cherrim posted:
V = I * R
e is amperage/ electromotive force
i, i believe, is inertia(?)/ volts
r is resistance
voltage times resistance gives you amperage
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Eternal_Midnight
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sweeny_comodore posted:
cherrim posted:
V = I * R
e is amperage/ electromotive force
i, i believe, is inertia(?)/ volts
r is resistance
voltage times resistance gives you amperage
Incorrect. V (or E) is voltage, I is current, measured in Amperes, R is resistance. Current times resistance equals voltage. And you can rearrange the formula however you like, as per Ohm's law.
Your bulbs, as Elkad stated, draw the same amount of power, but require vastly different amounts of current. 20w = 20w no matter what, and watts are found by current (I) times voltage. Thus, your 12v/20W bulb is drawing 10x more current, to dissapate the same amount of power.
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sweeny_comodore
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Eternal_Midnight posted:
sweeny_comodore posted:
cherrim posted:
V = I * R
e is amperage/ electromotive force
i, i believe, is inertia(?)/ volts
r is resistance
voltage times resistance gives you amperage
Incorrect. V (or E) is voltage, I is current, measured in Amperes, R is resistance. Current times resistance equals voltage. And you can rearrange the formula however you like, as per Ohm's law.
Your bulbs, as Elkad stated, draw the same amount of power, but require vastly different amounts of current. 20w = 20w no matter what, and watts are found by current (I) times voltage. Thus, your 12v/20W bulb is drawing 10x more current, to dissapate the same amount of power.
lol
i had to go look it up.
20 years ago i would have gotten that right on the first try.
wtf remembers what e and i stand for?
maybe thats why they are teaching v over i times r now adays?
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Shimatta33
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paulg_68 posted:
Suppose I have 2 lights. One is 12 volts / 20 watts. The other is 120 volts / 20 watts.
Both run off of a regular electrical outlet. Obviously the 12/20 one has something internal to the light that converts from 120 volts to 20.
My question is, do they consume the same amount of electricity?
Yes it would consume the same amount of electricity. The 20W rating is its rating for whatever voltage. The outlet power is 120V. So for the second one at 120V the bulb would be using approximately 20W of power. For the first one there would be a step down transformer to bring the voltage down to 12V, where it's rated at 20W. This means it'd also be using approximately 20W of power.
Now, if that step down transformer wasn't present that'd be a whole different story.
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ZartanAround
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Walker_ID
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paulg_68 posted:
Suppose I have 2 lights. One is 12 volts / 20 watts. The other is 120 volts / 20 watts.
Both run off of a regular electrical outlet. Obviously the 12/20 one has something internal to the light that converts from 120 volts to 20.
My question is, do they consume the same amount of electricity?
there isn't enough info to answer this question
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IMHO
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Shimatta33 posted:
paulg_68 posted:
Suppose I have 2 lights. One is 12 volts / 20 watts. The other is 120 volts / 20 watts.
Both run off of a regular (120v) electrical outlet. Obviously the 12/20 one has something internal to the light that converts from 120 volts to 20 (circuit).
My question is, do they consume the same amount of electricity?
Yes it would consume the same amount of electricity. The 20W rating is its rating for whatever voltage. The outlet power is 120V. So for the second one at 120V the bulb would be using approximately 20W of power. For the first one there would be a step down transformer to bring the voltage down to 12V, where it's rated at 20W. This means it'd also be using approximately 20W of power.
Now, if that step down transformer wasn't present that'd be a whole different story.
The light bulbs consumes the same amount of electricity, but the circuit for the 12v /20w light bulb with a transformer consumes more electricity than the circuit for the 120v / 20w light bulb with out a transformer.
Other wise you could heat your house for free using only transformers 
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Walker_ID
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IMHO posted:
The light bulbs consumes the same amount of electricity
^^ correct
edit:removed a part that i may be mistaken about
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NuEM
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Obviously this is a school level question where the transformer's work is ignored.
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Koneg
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NuEM posted:
Obviously this is a school level question where the transformer's work is ignored.
Of course it's ignored. It's irrelevant.
As mentioned repeatedly already: A watt is a watt is a watt.
If they are both rated as a 20 watt draw then they are both using the same amount of electricity, regardless of the "work" they put that wattage to.
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Fat_wong
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this is like that grade school math equation that was posted here a couple years ago that you morons couldn;t get right
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It depends on if the outlets are D or R!
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I leik makarowneeandcheez
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/thread
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Tych2
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sweeny_comodore posted:
i hate doing math
 Shocking. Math isn't to happen with what you do to it either.
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Both bulbs dissipate 20 Watts, or the same amount of power. The AC-DC circuit also dissipate a certain amount of power depending on it's efficiency.
The 12V DC circuit draws more power and dissipate more power than the 120V DC circuit, the amount of difference is dependent on the converters efficiency and it indeterminable with the data provided.
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So nobody here knows?
I have no idea, but I'm a decider, so IMHO is right.
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Tych2 posted:
sweeny_comodore posted:
i hate doing math
Shocking. english isn't to happen with what i do to it either.
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You got me. I was typing fast and didn't proofread it. I meant to say happy . I hate self-pwns like that.
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GrilledCheez posted:
So nobody here knows?
Uh, how did you get to that conclusion? The correct answer has been posted a half-dozen times already. Electricity usage is measured in Watts, not volts, not amps.
12 volts @ 20 Watts == 20 Watts of electricity used.
120 volts @ 20 Watts == 20 Watts of electricity used.
120,000 volts @ 20 Watts == 20 Watts of electricity used.
1,200,000,000,000,000,000 volts AC @ 20 Watts converted to 1,200,000,000 volts DC @ 20 Watts == 20 Watts of electricity used.
If you can't wrap your head around it, think of electricity as water. Watts == Gallons (or liters for you Euroweenies) It's not about how much pressure the water was under when it came pouring out of the kitchen faucet (volts), or how big that kitchen faucet is (allowing greater flow rate, amps), but the fact that you collected 20 gallons (Watts) of water out of it.
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Sorry Koneg, but you are wrong.
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GrilledCheez posted:
Sorry Koneg, but you are wrong.
Well then maybe you can explain why it is that electrical companies bill you by the number of Watts you use?
Because clearly, if you were using a 1,200,000,000,000 volt circuit instead of a 120 volt circuit they'd want to charge you more, because it's using more electricity, right?
So how come they don't?
(Note: These questions are rhetorical and strictly for my amusement. I already know you can't answer them correctly)
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I am going to let my electricity representative, IMHO, answer the question. If it even deserves one. Are you an OP electricity expert? I don't think so. What gives you the right?
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As a person who has stuck their tongue in a light-socket, I'm going with IMHO's expertise on this.
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GrilledCheez posted:
Sorry Koneg, but you are wrong.
retardly so...
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I have to admit, GC, you troll pretty good.
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candles... duh
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Subject:
Electricity question
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Voodoo-Dahl posted:
As a person who has stuck their tongue in a light-socket, I'm going with IMHO's expertise on this.
Winner
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IMHO
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Koneg posted:
GrilledCheez posted:
Sorry Koneg, but you are wrong.
Well then maybe you can explain why it is that electrical companies bill you by the number of Watts you use?
Because clearly, if you were using a 1,200,000,000,000 volt circuit instead of a 120 volt circuit they'd want to charge you more, because it's using more electricity, right?
So how come they don't?
(Note: These questions are rhetorical and strictly for my amusement. I already know you can't answer them correctly)
You are correct as far as you go..... BUT you are leaving the transformer out of the equation.
Lets look at Paul's electrical scenario again....
paulg_68 posted:
Suppose I have 2 lights. One is 12 volts / 20 watts. The other is 120 volts / 20 watts.
a wat is a wat is a wat
But he doesn't leave it there, he throws in some more components/variables to this puzzle.
paulg_68 posted:
Both run off of a regular electrical outlet.
Paul is stating that both will be running off regular outlet, a regular out let in the USA is 120v. Only one of the two light bulb circuits that Paul states is capable of being plugged directly in to the 120v regular outlet.
So for the 12v / 20w circuit to work, and not let the manufacturers smoke out, you will OBVIOUSLY...
paulg_68 posted:
Obviously the 12/20 one has something internal to the light that converts from 120 volts to 12.
"Internal to the light" meaning the 12v /20w circuit will be needing a transformer, because a 12v circuit can't handle the 120v regular outlet.
Thus, adding another load onto the circuit of the 12v /20w light bulb.
paulg_68 posted:
My question is, do they consume the same amount of electricity?
So it should be Obvious that the 12v /20w circuit will consume more.
I guess it could be argued what "do they" is referring too, but in how he lined out the scenario I think it is obvious that he is talking about the two different 20 watt light bulb circuits.
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Koneg
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IMHO posted:
paulg_68 posted:
My question is, do they consume the same amount of electricity?
So it should be Obvious that the 12v /20w circuit will consume more.
If anyone here has a weak heart just stop reading right now.
You've been warned.
You're right, I missed that, it would. (Code Blue to the Outpost! Stat!) The transformer will have its own small, separate load because they're not and never can be 100% efficient.
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reesescups
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-----signature-----
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"I'm not racist at all." - dae_trist
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IMHO
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/bow
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You're Right ~ Koneg
He's [Manegarm] like the Fred Phelps of atheism. ~Bubbledude
many of you are in the Republican boat, aka the ship of fools. ~Modeeb
We are here on Earth to fart around. Don't let anybody tell you any different. ~Kurt Vonnegut
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Clackdor
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Can't believe this thread is still going. I could start a "gay marriage abortion that needs a birth certificate" thread that wouldn't get this many replies.
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Koneg
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Clackdor posted:
Can't believe this thread is still going. I could start a "gay marriage abortion that needs a birth certificate" thread that wouldn't get this many replies.
I think that has more to do with the fact that nobody likes you. 
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reesescups
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Damn Koneg is on a roll now - that's two things he's gotten right in one thread!!!
/Three Cheers for Metalface!
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Elocism
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just do everything i tell you to do
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GrilledCheez
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You should never roll against the decider. He's deciding stuff. And it's right. Otherwise why would he have decided it? Think about it.
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Sin_of_Onin
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This thread is weird.
paul asks a question that is not really stupid
IMHO provides a lot of useful information and is the clear expert
Koneg admits he was wrong
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IMHO
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
This thread is weird.
paul asks a question that is not really stupid
IMHO provides a lot of useful information and is the clear expert
Koneg admits he was wrong
BIZARRO WORLD
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He's [Manegarm] like the Fred Phelps of atheism. ~Bubbledude
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RHWarrior
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((tl;dr the other shite in the thread))
All other things equal, the low volt bulb will use some more power.
Cause all transformers have some loss, even if it can be very minute on a high tech expensive one.
hth.
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Elkad
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120v/20w. Plugged into a 120v outlet, this will draw 20w. (if you leave it on for 50 hours, you will pay for 1kwh of electricity)
12v/20w. One of 2 options here. There is a transformer that converts 120VAC to 12VDC. It's unlikely it is more than 80% efficient (and probably worse). If the bulb draws 20w, then the 80% transformer is drawing 25w. If the transformer draws 20w, then its a 16w bulb. Likely it's the first case (20w bulb, using 25w or better of metered power). If it has a battery built in as well, total efficiency is likely closer to 50%. Also, any time the transformer is connected to power, it wastes a watt or 3 (this is why your phone charger is always slightly warm, even without a phone plugged into it).
The one with the transformer also has more parts to break, and probably costs more.
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cherrim
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
This thread is weird.
paul asks a question that is not really stupid
IMHO provides a lot of useful information and is the clear expert
Koneg admits he was wrong
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