AzureTyger
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http://cincinnati.com/blogs/politics/2012/01/04/obama-will-announce-cordray-appointment-in-cleveland/
President Barack Obama will use a stop in Cleveland today to announce that he will bypass the Senate to install Richard Cordray, the former Ohio Attorney General, as head of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.
“With Cordray in place, the CFPB will now be able to exercise its full ability to protect consumers and middle class families allowed under the law,†a White House official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity.
“Every day that Richard waits to be confirmed is another day when millions of Americans are left unprotected,†Obama will say in his speech in Cleveland, according to prepared remarks released by the administration official. “Without a director in place, the consumer watchdog agency we’ve set up is left without the tools it needs to prevent dishonest mortgage brokers, payday lenders and debt collectors from taking advantage of consumers. That’s inexcusable. It’s wrong. And I refuse to take “no†for an answer.â€
The news infuriated Republicans, who have staunchly opposed Cordray’s appointment and blocked an up-or-down Senate vote on the nominee. Sen. Rob Portman, R-Ohio, and others have said that Cordray is qualified for the post, but they object to the way the new consumer agency is structured. The CFPB, created in the aftermath of the 2008 economic meltdown, is unaccountable and too powerful, Portman and others have argued.
In a conference call with reporters, RNC Chairman Reince Priebus decried Obama’s decision to appoint Cordray while federal lawmakers are back in their home states on holiday break.
“It’s unreal,†Priebus said. “The president is taking power at an unprecedented level and doing something that’s never been done in the history of this country.â€
While president’s often make so-called “recess appointments,†installing nominees when Congress is on break, the House and Senate are technically in session right now. Congressional leaders have organized pro forma sessions to keep the chambers open, even though there’s no legislative action occurring.
“The outrageousness of this is that Harry Reid has said the Senate’s not in recess,†Priebus said, referring to the Democratic Senate leader.
In his remarks, Obama will point to Republican tactics that have blocked action on his nominees and legislative priorities—part of his campaign to run against a “do-nothing†Congress.
It's a sad day for our country that GOP obstructionism has forced Obama to set a terribad precedent in order to get a vital consumer safety net in place.
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Tych2
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 This is the republican's fault? Eventually he is going to have to take responsibility for his own actions.
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Szerek
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Isn't it strange how rules and laws only seem to apply to us plebes?
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Moe_Nox
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Azure posted:
What this country really needs is one party rule
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AzureTyger
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Tych2 posted:
This is the republican's fault? Eventually he is going to have to take responsibility for his own actions.
Absolutely. Republicans blocked an up and down vote on this appointment for five months, then used a procedural technicality to keep congress "in session" while they were actually all on break to prevent a recess appointment by the administration. How long do the people have to wait for needed reforms while the Republicans hold the government hostage to make sure their corporate overlords are being fellated?
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Yukishiro1
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AzureTyger posted:
How long do the people have to wait for needed reforms while the Republicans hold the government hostage to make sure their corporate overlords are being fellated?
Until people get tired of them and vote them out for it?
I.e., pretty much never. But that's democracy for you.
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paulg_68
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@Internet lawyers: Can the President be impeached for something like this?
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cabbyman
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It's awesome that the President has new super powers!
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Yukishiro1
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paulg_68 posted:
@Internet lawyers: Can the President be impeached for something like this?
The president can be impeached for anything. It's a political question. If you can get 2/3 of Congress to vote for it you can impeach anyone for anything.
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paulg_68
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Could you impeach a President for wearing an ugly tie?
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-Espiritu-
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cabbyman posted:
It's awesome that the President has new super powers!
UNLIMITED POWER SOON!!!
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Yukishiro1
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Probably, if you can convince 2/3s of congress to vote for it. Although obviously they would find some way to truss it up to at least be a misdemeanor in order to make it seem less rankly partisan.
You can also cite probably the most appropriately named Supreme Court case EVER as authority: Nixon v. United States.
It isn't the Nixon you're thinking of in the context of impeachment but that is what makes it so great.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_v._United_States
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theredkay1
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Tych2 posted:
This is the republican's fault? Eventually he is going to have to take responsibility for his own actions.
What does 'responsibility for his own actions' have to do with this particular event?
Sometimes when you bend over backwards to avoid pointing fingers you can really get yourself confused.
------
Back to the topic....the inability of congress to perform its basic funtions is really forcing the exective branch to grab more and more power. Stuff has to get done....and unfortunately Congress just wants to take a pass on most things.
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Tych2
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theredkay1 posted:
Tych2 posted:
This is the republican's fault? Eventually he is going to have to take responsibility for his own actions.
What does 'responsibility for his own actions' have to do with this particular event?
Just what it means. You can't keep doing things then blaming others. You should try to stop apologizing all the time. Talk about bending over. Hows your back?
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Moe_Nox
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Its not his back thats sore
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Yukishiro1
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Moe_Nox posted:
Its not his back thats sore
Watch out, you'll get dae_twist to show up in this thread.
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Tych2
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Ptilk
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Recess appointments aren't anything new.
Just because congress claims they never go into recess anymore doesn't mean they aren't full of shit in claiming such a stupid thing.
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Tych2
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I have no problem with Obama doing what he did. None whatsoever. I am laughing at blaming the republicans because are mean and yucky.
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Szerek
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theredkay1 posted:
Sometimes when you bend over backwards to avoid pointing fingers you can poke yourself in the rectum.
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theredkay1
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Youre still not making any sense.
Congress passed a law which created a new regulatory body. The President appoints a leader of the new department and Congress gets to approve or disapprove. These actions are required by law.
Some members of congress have decided they dont like the law. Instead of using their ability to change said law, they are instead trying to get around it. Obama has decided he has the authority to fulfill the original intent of the law if Congress refuses to follow it. I would like to see his legal reasoning...and this very well might end up in court.
What exactly is it that Obama isnt taking responsibility for? (Edit) Is he supposed to blame himself for the GOP refusing to allow a vote on this appointment?
Your comment seems totally out of place here. What is the responsibility he is trying to pass off on others? If anything he is taking direct action to take responsibility for this situation. I think your need to stand on the fence has led you astray here.
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AzureTyger
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Ptilk posted:
Recess appointments aren't anything new.
Just because congress claims they never go into recess anymore doesn't mean they aren't full of shit in claiming such a stupid thing.
This is exactly the legal argument the WH is using, that congress is effectively in recess.
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Sea_of_inK
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Good for Obama.
If you can't see how the republicans provoked this action, you are blind.
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Tych2
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theredkay1 posted:
Youre still not making any sense.
Well the wonderful thing is that it doesn't matter if it makes sense to you.
Do you think I am trying to convince you of something? I gave my opinion. Your understanding of it wasn't a requirement. 
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Darkblade_The_Great
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AzureTyger posted:
It's a sad day for our country that GOP obstructionism has forced Obama to set a terribad precedent in order to get a vital consumer safety net in place.
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Ptilk
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The 11th circuit appeals court already ruled (back in 2007)that there is no constitutional minimum time for congress to be out of session for a president to use his constitutional power to recess appoint individuals. They ruled that the President could legally, constitutionally, issue a recess appointment 1 second after they closed the house floor for the night.
Done deal.
This Senate minority has blocked more appointments to federal positions than any other Senate in history. Even though they are the minority, the stupid rules of the god damn pathetic Senate give the minority party the power to block any god damn thing they want.....and this Senate minority has blocked just about everything. Hell, Mitch McConnel blocked EVERY candidate to EVERY federal position just last month and said he would keep blocking them until Obama promised to gut the CFPB and give all the power back to the banks that congress took from them after the latest round of criminal actions those banks took. What little tiny bit of power that was....and they blocked every candidate for every job. Suck it dick bags. Over reach much? 5% approval rating. Shut the hell up and let the country get on with stuff, you aren't doing shit.
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Moe_Nox
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Watching you partisans [mod]birds flip sides every 4 years or so on this with your emo drama amuses.
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theredkay1
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Tych2 posted:
theredkay1 posted:
Youre still not making any sense.
Well the wonderful thing is that it doesn't matter if it makes sense to you.
Do you think I am trying to convince you of something? I gave my opinion.
 Oh ok, I thought maybe you were trying to make sense. 
sometimes that actually happens around here
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Tych2
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theredkay1 posted:
Tych2 posted:
theredkay1 posted:
Youre still not making any sense.
Well the wonderful thing is that it doesn't matter if it makes sense to you.
Do you think I am trying to convince you of something? I gave my opinion.
Oh ok, I thought maybe you were trying to make sense.
sometimes that actually happens around here
Well thats your problem. I will refer you to this thread.
http://vnboards.ign.com/outpost/b22180/115966766/p1/?29
You're welcome. 
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Sansfear
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The Dems, including Reid and Obama, screamed bloody murder 4 years ago when Bush tried to do similar things.
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Ptilk
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Bush used recess appointments more than 150 times in his 8 years in office, which was an unusually high number...but then, he nominated a lot of unusually corrupt or conflicted people to important offices, but even in his case, many of the nominations being held up had no valid reason to be blocked on the merits of whether the person was suitable for office. Many of the blocks were just Senators throwing fits because of a few of the idiots he had already appointed via recess. Like John Bolton and Charles Pickering. Two men who had no business in any role in the government after their storied careers as corrupt and/or racists assholes.
The Senate always screams about them because it means they lost in trying to block an appointment.
Pretty sure every President has used recess appointments. Some more than others. Usually the more often they used them wasn't because they were being stupid or sneaky.....it usually means that the Senate was being stupid. No matter which party was in power.
Seldom is there any valid reason for the person being blocked from getting a vote in the Senate. It's usually some scum bag senator trying to force something about a totally unrelated issue and using a hold to get their whiny little way.
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Koneg
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AzureTyger posted:
It's a sad day for our country that DNC obstructionism has forced Bush to set a terribad precedent in order to get a vital consumer safety net in place.
Where were you when the DNC held up the voting for 27 appointees for all 8 years of his Presidency? Those positions that ended up never actually being filled during Bush's terms?
Why were you not being a crying bitch then?
I have no intention of ever voting for Obama, but I have no problem with what Obama is doing right now. Holding up appointments because you don't want an up-or-down vote is pathetic and childish and it needs to stop.
The President has the authority to perform any appointment while Congress is recessed. They can bleat until they're blue in the face that they're not actually in recess, but the legislative session ended December 24th whether the legislators liked that or not.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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I'm with Obama on this one.
If you want the law modified or repealed, do it. You're Congress. Otherwise, STFU and do your job in reviewing the appointments.
Appointments should be strictly personnel matters, and strictly up-or-down. And f'ck you if you can't get it done before the recess. Do your damned job.
There's a reason Congress has about a 6% job approval rating.
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Koneg
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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
Appointments should be strictly personnel matters, and strictly up-or-down. And f'ck you if you can't get it done before the recess. Do your damned job.
Apparently both Abbadon and I agree completely on this, and quite vigorously too.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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The incompetence of Congress of late rises to the level of treason.
I actually agree with some of the R's points about the agency. But they have a recourse... amend the law. Otherwise, you're sworn to UPHOLD the damned law. So do it.
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Aerlinthian
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Anything that hastens the demise of the national government is welcome.
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If congress doesnt act then Bravo!
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GrilledCheez
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I don't see how this can be blamed on repugs. The dems had the seats to do lots of great things. instead they did lots of stupid, bad, corrupt, and destructive things.
Then when they had the oh shit we sux and everyone hates us they tried to push a couple good things through and didn't have time to finish.
Clearly teh republicans, or more than likely the voter's fault. If Obama can't do it legally then it is a failure, not a chance to do it illegally.
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cabbyman
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This will become the new normal.
Both sides will complain that the other does it.
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Thugoneous
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I for one welcome the Dear Leader's strong decision making. One who leaves heaven to serve mankind deserves our devotion. We should not impede his wishes by bringing up something human such as the Constitution. One of his stature has no need for such restraints and should be celebrated for being powerful enough to ignore them.
(Mods can you delete my post for the last year or so? Thank you. Lots of love.)
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Koneg
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Thugoneous posted:
We should not impede his wishes by bringing up something human such as the Constitution.
Article 2, Section 2, United States Constitution
The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of their next Session. If you're going to piss and moan about the Constitution, perhaps you'd like to read it first?
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Thugoneous
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We're beyond that piece of paper and into the other worldly. I think that just because the Senate didn't officially go into recess that the true Savior shouldn't be able to do what he wishes. I'm only disturbed that we haven't built a proper monument to him.
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cabbyman posted:
This will become the new normal.
Both sides will complain that the other does it.
I would say it already is the new norm.
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SoBaKi
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TARDgoneous posted:
We're beyond that piece of paper and into the other worldly. I think that just because the Senate didn't officially go into recess that the true Savior shouldn't be able to do what he wishes. I'm only disturbed that we haven't built a proper monument to him.
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Eternal_Midnight
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Didn't Bush do this all the time? Not really sure what the big deal is, since the consumer protection agency presumably works on behalf of most of you clowns.
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Taliesihne
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Presidents since George Washington have made recess appointments. Washington appointed South Carolina judge John Rutledge as Chief Justice of the United States during a congressional recess in 1795
According to the Congressional Research Service, President Bill Clinton made 139 recess appointments. President George W. Bush made 171 recess appointments, and as of December 8, 2011, President Barack Obama had made 28 recess appointments.
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Bonzoboy1
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We really need a leader and there isn't one anywhere to be found.
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Doesnt Congress need to be in recess for the pres to actually do this?
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Taliesihne
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Grymlo posted:
Doesnt Congress need to be in recess for the pres to actually do this?
http://hobnobblog.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/2012_CongressionalCalendar_WEB.pdf
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Grymlo
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Taliesihne posted:
Grymlo posted:
Doesnt Congress need to be in recess for the pres to actually do this?
http://hobnobblog.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/2012_CongressionalCalendar_WEB.pdf
Yeah i understand all that bull but didnt they use some procedural bullshit to keep them in session so Obama couldnt do this?
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Afio
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Taliesihne posted:
Presidents since George Washington have made recess appointments. Washington appointed South Carolina judge John Rutledge as Chief Justice of the United States during a congressional recess in 1795
According to the Congressional Research Service, President Bill Clinton made 139 recess appointments. President George W. Bush made 171 recess appointments, and as of December 8, 2011, President Barack Obama had made 28 recess appointments.
Funny how when the guy you didn't endorse does it, it's soooooooooo wrong.
Hypocrites 
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Taliesihne
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Grymlo posted:
Yeah i understand all that bull but didnt they use some procedural bullshit to keep them in session so Obama couldnt do this?
Whether or not pro-forma sessions count is a grey area.
The argument that congress is in session because three people got together for 30 seconds and banged a gavel is extraordinarily weak imo.
Congress is officially in recess.
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GrilledCheez
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Taliesihne posted:
Grymlo posted:
Yeah i understand all that bull but didnt they use some procedural bullshit to keep them in session so Obama couldnt do this?
Whether or not pro-forma sessions count is a grey area.
The argument that congress is in session because three people got together for 30 seconds and banged a gavel is extraordinarily weak imo.
Congress is officially in recess.
That's silly. The whole thing is weak. Recess appointments are stupid end arounds of the constitution. Now this recess congress decided they'd follow the procedures to keep it form happening and obama did it anyway. How anyone can defend it is beyond me. Especially since I KNOW you liberals would have been brandishing the constitution and gnashing teeth if Bush had done the same thing.
I guess what I don't get is whether anyone actually believes in checks and balances and self rule anymore, or if literally all anyone cares about is when the other guys are abusing power.
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Grymlo
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Yeah that sounds like bullshit.
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Taliesihne
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How is something that is specifically authorized by the constitution an end run around it 
**Edit**
Koneg posted it earlier, but here it is:
Article II, Section II of the US Constitution posted:
The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of their next Session.
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GrilledCheez
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Taliesihne posted:
How is something that is specifically authorized by the constitution an end run around it
Because it's an end run around the spirit of an appointment. The article in question is meant to allow an appointment in cases where a vacancy comes up out of session. It's not intended to be a political tool for when you can't get congress to approve an appointment.
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Taliesihne
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Your argument doesn't make any sense.
Recess appointments have been used this way since the very first president. The language is enshrined in the constitution.
By screed and by practice, there is nothing abnormal about what Obama is doing.
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GrilledCheez
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Except that congress is not in recess. And whether or not it has been done int he past is irrelevant to the question of whether it is an abuse of power. I'm sorry you didn't comprehend what I said though. I doubt that's a new problem for you.
Just remember Talie that you are as thoughtless when it comes to dems abusing power as Fred is with repugs. Grats on that.
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Taliesihne
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Lol. I've been pretty outspoken over my views of Obama's abuse of executive power. I just don't think it's worse because he's suddenly doing the same thing his predecessors were.
But doing something that is directly backed by constitutional language and has been used the exact same way as the framers themselves did is not on that list.
It's always fun to watch you wander into ad-hom land. You only do it when you are losing and you are pretty bad at it.
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GrilledCheez
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Your self image on this is awful. You are a completely mindless sheep for dems. You should ask anyone here. Not recognizing your own stupid is the surest way to keep it. You can believe I am just lashing out if you want. I am trying to be helpful.
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Taliesihne
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I'm sure you are being helpful and not trying to draw attention away from your horrific argument.
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GrilledCheez
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Wait are you saying that article was intended to be a political tool for when presidents have a full session to get an appointment through congress but can't? Or are you saying congress was officially in recess?
I thought your entire rebuttal was, "It's in the constitution." Which it isn't. And even if you want to say congress is in recess when they are not officially in recess, it was not intended for the purpose it is being used for here. Unless you are a moron or a political hack. You can choose I guess.
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Taliesihne
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The language is specifically in the constitution - the president has the power to make recess appointments.
Congress is officially in recess until the next to last week in January.
Recess appointments have been used as a way to get around political hurdles since the very first presidency.
By practice and by the letter of the law, there is nothing abnormal or wrong about what Obama is doing. If you feel that strongly about it, I recommend seeking a constitutional amendment to redress the issue.
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paulg_68
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Article II, Section II of the US Constitution posted:
The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of their next Session.
This vacancy didn't happen during the recess of the Senate. It happened before the recess of the Senate.
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Afio
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paulg_68 posted:
Article II, Section II of the US Constitution posted:
The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of their next Session.
This vacancy didn't happen during the recess of the Senate. It happened before the recess of the Senate.
http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2012/01/04/another-uproar-over-recess-appointments-what-exactly-congressional-recess
"Lawyers for this White House and for past administrations, including most recently with President George W. Bush, have argued that the use of "pro forma" sessions is merely a legislative sham designed to rob the executive branch of its powers.
Two Bush-era lawyers, John Elwood and Steven Bradbury, called such a strategy "phony" in a 2010 Washington Post op-ed, and said, "The president can use this power to fill a vacancy during any recess between sessions of Congress as well as recesses during sessions of Congress, if they are of substantial length."
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Thugoneous posted:
I think that just because the Senate didn't officially go into recess
The Senate officially went into recess on December 24th, whether they declare the recess or not, because that's the end of their legislative session.
They are in recess whether they like it, declare it, or not. They can claim they're not in recess until they're blue in the face, but that doesn't make it so.
Only Picard does that. 
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Groucho48
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GrilledCheez posted:
Except that congress is not in recess. And whether or not it has been done int he past is irrelevant to the question of whether it is an abuse of power. I'm sorry you didn't comprehend what I said though. I doubt that's a new problem for you.
Just remember Talie that you are as thoughtless when it comes to dems abusing power as Fred is with repugs. Grats on that.
Why aren't you blaming Congress for an end=around? They are the ones playing the games and abusing power.
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Sea_of_inK
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Bush did it 171 times. Obama's got some work to do to catch him, sitting at 32 to date.
Out govt is broken. OFN. Recess appointments and flim-flam procedural maneuvers used to prevent them by never officially going into recess suck but the precedent has been set. Support should be on a case by case basis. I give him credit for not doing it more.
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Groucho48 posted:
GrilledCheez posted:
Except that congress is not in recess. And whether or not it has been done int he past is irrelevant to the question of whether it is an abuse of power. I'm sorry you didn't comprehend what I said though. I doubt that's a new problem for you.
Just remember Talie that you are as thoughtless when it comes to dems abusing power as Fred is with repugs. Grats on that.
Why aren't you blaming Congress for an end=around? They are the ones playing the games and abusing power.
What congress is doing is not against the spirit of their charter in this case. What Obama is doing is.
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GrilledCheez posted:
What congress is doing is not against the spirit of their charter in this case. What Obama is doing is.
**boggle**
The "spirit of their charter" is to advise and consent. They don't even have the balls to say "no", so instead they stuff the issue in a drawer and try to pretend it doesn't even exist. If that doesn't go against the "spirit of their charter" then nothing does you simpleton.
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I can't imagine a world where our leader will receive less than 99% of the vote. I would vote for him even if I was running against him! His powerful speech delivery and stern grasp on world and domestic issues will leave us in a warm embrace. I dare say his loving glow is the real reason the globe has been warming.
Why haven't the other faces been removed from Mount Rushmore and replaced with The President's yet? It's obvious their accomplishments pale in the mightiness that is President Obama.
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I think Congress is violating the spirit of their charter, but are following the law. I think Obama is breaking the law, but following the spirit of his charter.
I think neither give a rats ass about the letter or spirit of the law and are only concerned with what power they can exercise and what they can get away with.
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GrilledCheez
Title: The Lord's Balls
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Subject:
Obama to appoint CFPB Chief and completely bypass congress for another +1 to Presidential Power
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What congress is doing is as good as a no. Their consent means they have to approve. They don't approve of this appointment.
The power given to this agency is co-opted from congress. That's how these agencies work. Congress must approve the leader. The reason they don't want to approve this one does not magically move it outside of their purview as approvers, nor does the mechanism they are trying to assure their disapproval sticks.
You are trying to argue that they MUST approve of or vote on one of obamas appointments because he should have the power to see the agency run in whatever way he wants and by whomever he wants. That's simply not true. in the same way that scotus can say no to yoru court case by not hearing it, so can congress say no to your appointment by not voting on it.
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Another word for expensive is successful.
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theredkay1
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Subject:
Obama to appoint CFPB Chief and completely bypass congress for another +1 to Presidential Power
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GrilledCheez posted:
in the same way that scotus can say no to yoru court case by not hearing it, so can congress say no to your appointment by not voting on it.
this is the clue that shows us you dont understand the situation.
In the Supreme Court comparison, the Court votes on whether or not to hear a case. What we dont see is a justice or two using procedural shenanigans so as to not allow the court to decide whether or not to hear the case.
If voting 'no' were really the same thing as refusing to allow a vote, they wouldnt call them different things.
This is a dramatic change in the role and power of Congress. If a law is passed by Congress and signed by the President....does a small minority in congress have the right to nullify the law simply because they dont like it but dont have the votes to overturn it through constitutional means? Is that in the constitution somewhere? Maybe tucked in a footnote?
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__Bonk__
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Subject:
Obama to appoint CFPB Chief and completely bypass congress for another +1 to Presidential Power
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Obama wouldve blasted Bush in a speech for this but things are different when you have power. You want more power.
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I keep my eyes fixed on the sun!
A change in feeling is a change in destiny.
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