Ferrydust
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A poster makes what seems like a legitimate post only to be called a troll by GC
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http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/215277-mop-wont-save-wow/
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I, on the other hand, prefer a command-line system 'cause i'm so hardcore
/north /north *You encounter an [Avatar of the god Set]!*
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Taloquin
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A poster makes what seems like a legitimate post only to be called a troll by GC
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And it's been deleted, what a surprise.
Hopefully this is the start of a Tseric meltdown so we can finally be rid of the asshat commonly known as Ghostcrawler.
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I'm a lurker and I know it.
Post count just means you spend too much time reading and not enough playing. :P
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Kriegprojekt
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A poster makes what seems like a legitimate post only to be called a troll by GC
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His responses remind me of someone who is in their teens. Basically, a hand in the face and a stupid attitude. This guys just oozes, "asshole".
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http://www.immortal-guild.com/ Deepstrike Server Milkman - Guardian Bard
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Sociop
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A poster makes what seems like a legitimate post only to be called a troll by GC
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He certainly has to be a publicity nightmare for them, at least I would think so but they way that they protect him they must have a shrine in his honor at Blizz HQ.
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Ugh_Lancelot
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A poster makes what seems like a legitimate post only to be called a troll by GC
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Or he has pictures of Morhaime and others in compromising positions with farm animals.
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WoW and DAoC - Too many alts to count
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Azure-TheBlueOne
Title: Made in Alaska
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A poster makes what seems like a legitimate post only to be called a troll by GC
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Hmm...
So it's legitimate for a customer to go to a fairly successful business and say that not only won't they discuss the positives and negatives of the current direction, but that the only way for the product to be turned around is by replacing the current leadership?
I dunno, I don't side with GC very often, but I will give him this one.
-----signature-----
"When the government scares people into thinking it must take their liberties away, and the people let the Government do it. They are sheep." - Judge Andrew Napolitano http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php
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Ferrydust
Title: Iron Chef Jennifer
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Subject:
A poster makes what seems like a legitimate post only to be called a troll by GC
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Azure-TheBlueOne posted:
Hmm...
So it's legitimate for a customer to go to a fairly successful business and say that not only won't they discuss the positives and negatives of the current direction, but that the only way for the product to be turned around is by replacing the current leadership?
I dunno, I don't side with GC very often, but I will give him this one.
Except the poster didn't make the post to be directed to GC. He made it for Blizzard and GC jumped in and called him a troll.
-----signature-----
I, on the other hand, prefer a command-line system 'cause i'm so hardcore
/north /north *You encounter an [Avatar of the god Set]!*
/cast sheild *sheild spell unavailable*
/csat shield *csat: unknown command*
*[Avatar of Set] beheads [Peasant]*
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Azure-TheBlueOne
Title: Made in Alaska
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A poster makes what seems like a legitimate post only to be called a troll by GC
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I didn't say it was directed at GC, I said that, on it's face, it does seem trollish and not legitimate.
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"When the government scares people into thinking it must take their liberties away, and the people let the Government do it. They are sheep." - Judge Andrew Napolitano http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php
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GutterSludge
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A poster makes what seems like a legitimate post only to be called a troll by GC
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Customers have the right to say whatever the hell they want about companies they deal with...
If the company won't hear it, take said business elsewhere.
You are right, they don't have to listen, just like we don't have to give them any money..but at some point this choice of "not listening" will destroy said company.
Blizzard Exec. in the near future: "Looky, we have zero customers left, but at least we never put up with listening to them!!!"
Yah, awesome business model.
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Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
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JaredKorry
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Subject:
A poster makes what seems like a legitimate post only to be called a troll by GC
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Azure-TheBlueOne posted:
Hmm...
So it's legitimate for a customer to go to a fairly successful business and say that not only won't they discuss the positives and negatives of the current direction, but that the only way for the product to be turned around is by replacing the current leadership?
I dunno, I don't side with GC very often, but I will give him this one.
Auenwing said much the same thing as that poster and took it even further by saying that it "needs to be applied, not to just the dev team, but to the entire management chain above them, all the way up to the boardroom."
Would you consider her a troll?
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Auenwing
Title: straightface
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A poster makes what seems like a legitimate post only to be called a troll by GC
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I'm curious as well. Feel free to call me a troll, it will not change my subjective (business) opinion based on 7 years of observation regarding some of Blizzard's very visible "devs".
I also included:
Sadly, many in my guild believe you are right. Scorning customers is nothing new for Blizzard.
Only, I don't blame him specifically for his attitude and statements, I blame the internal corporate culture that I believe exists at Blizzard (and the management responsible for fostering it).
You can find that attitude present before Vanilla release. And Jeff Kaplan's interview in the NYT is a perfect example (as I've said many times.) Chilton indeed continued the tradition. And Greg Street is just riding along in their wake.
I still contend that Blizzard's observable behavior regarding this area is part of what is negatively impacting not only their product, but their customer base (and is a very major part of what drove my guild out of the game.)
-Would happily be called a troll
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JaredKorry
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A poster makes what seems like a legitimate post only to be called a troll by GC
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Dang double post ><
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sarnsereg
Title: I HAS A TITLE?
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Subject:
A poster makes what seems like a legitimate post only to be called a troll by GC
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the OP in the thread being referenced really didn't provide a valid post in anyway. all he sad was "mop won't save wow. only a new development team will save wow".
that is straight trolling and not productive in anyway so how is GC saying "troll" and locking be a bad thing?
if the OP had posted something worthwhile then it's one thing, if a person makes a post that is quite literally NOT legitiment other than maybe sharing an opinion of a few people.
what makes the post legitimate? why won't mop save wow? what would a new developlement team need to do to save wow? those types of things being answered would have made a legitimate post. straight up posting wow sucks, new people would make it better doesn't do anything.
i'm not for blizz shutting people down but unless someone makes a real attempt at what the problems are a nd how to fix them then they will continue to lock/delete posts.
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"...and they'll say "Hey, Look at him!, I'll never live that way". And that's ok they couldn't anyway..."
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Shenron_
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A poster makes what seems like a legitimate post only to be called a troll by GC
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it seems like an obvious troll post to me.
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Azure-TheBlueOne
Title: Made in Alaska
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Subject:
A poster makes what seems like a legitimate post only to be called a troll by GC
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Again, what is helpful or legitimate about saying, "Damn any feedback or past successes, you all just need to be replaced!"
Seems obviously trollish to me... YMMV.
Also, I find that Auen generally adds a bit more substance than the above. I didn't see a reference, but her post in this thread seems to imply that the post you're talking about had some. Unlike the linked post I was discussing.
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"When the government scares people into thinking it must take their liberties away, and the people let the Government do it. They are sheep." - Judge Andrew Napolitano http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php
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GutterSludge
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A poster makes what seems like a legitimate post only to be called a troll by GC
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sarnsereg posted:
the OP in the thread being referenced really didn't provide a valid post in anyway. all he sad was "mop won't save wow. only a new development team will save wow".
And at least 2 million subscribers that have left since Cata launched prove his statement 100% correct.
It wasn't a troll post. It was a statement, and a very valid one at that.
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Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
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Deionnara
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A poster makes what seems like a legitimate post only to be called a troll by GC
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This is the one that really needs a visit from the cockpunch fairy:
GC is just a tool.
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http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Stormreaver&n=Nadja People climbing up the walls Breaking all of my wretched dolls Fingernails they scratch outside In the attic is where I'll hide
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Sprawl-zero1eye-
Title: IGN Vault Staff
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Subject:
A poster makes what seems like a legitimate post only to be called a troll by GC
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As far as I can tell, GC is trying to "be one of the guys". However, that doesn't really work for someone in his position except as a very random, playful thing.
He would have been better off just closing the tab when he clicked on that post. By posting, you are stooping to the "trolls" level (assuming he is a troll as suggested).
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sarnsereg
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Subject:
A poster makes what seems like a legitimate post only to be called a troll by GC
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GutterSludge posted:
sarnsereg posted:
the OP in the thread being referenced really didn't provide a valid post in anyway. all he sad was "mop won't save wow. only a new development team will save wow".
And at least 2 million subscribers that have left since Cata launched prove his statement 100% correct.
It wasn't a troll post. It was a statement, and a very valid one at that.
really? 2 million people believed that? please provide proof that all 2 million people that have "quit" or "stopped playing" or... you know.. as most of those accoutns were from china and not able to play.... please provide some proof that all 2 million of those left directly because of GC and the development team.
don't get me wrong, i'm sure a lot of the people that left did so because they didn't like cata. but how many left for a different game, or for financial reasons, or being in china or some other place where they just couldn't access the game anymore.
here's a beter theory.. around 11 million people believe you are 100% wrong because that's how many people are still playing the game. do some math, even if what the person is saying is true about 2 million people leaving because of the development ream.. 11 million are still loving what they are doing.
i feel cata has been the weekest expansion yet, but i still am enjoying it, especially with the latest patch with dragon soul and the LFR. i have very mixed feelings about what they are doing with mop. i don't know if i'll like it or not. but to pass judgement without seeing anything and essentially say "mop is a failure" before it's released because you don't like it is just wrong.
the community has overwhelmingly said "we don't like hardcore". they have said "we like what the hardcore call welfare epics because it's easy". and if that means they lose a couple million players but retain 10+ million.. i think they are just fine with that.
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GutterSludge
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A poster makes what seems like a legitimate post only to be called a troll by GC
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Tell the stockholders that 2 million lost subs is "nothing"...
Or does the dev team not have to listen to them, either?
You do realize that GC is the LEAD developer...??
So, by replacing the entire dev team, we include Him, and every single underling who was too stupid or too scared to tell him he was batshit crazy with his "vision" for healing in cata, or the "vision" for how we, as players, should play the game they way HE says to...NOT how we enjoy?
Since we disagree, this is where GC would call you a troll, and delete your post....Right?
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Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
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Wolfpaw_We
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A poster makes what seems like a legitimate post only to be called a troll by GC
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sarnsereg posted:
do some math, even if what the person is saying is true about 2 million people leaving because of the development ream.. 11 million are still loving what they are doing
My math said that they lost 15% of their customers. Fifteen percent. Even if and when they must have been expecting an eventual decline in numbers, that cannot be inconsequential.
The removed post had no references, no justification, just an unsupported statement presented as a fact on a subject that the poster knew (or should have known) was at least somewhat controversial and would provoke inflammatory responses. I'm not saying it's aliens, but it's aliens.
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GutterSludge
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A poster makes what seems like a legitimate post only to be called a troll by GC
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Is there ever a post on the forums that doesn't receive inflammatory responses?
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Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
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JaredKorry
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Subject:
A poster makes what seems like a legitimate post only to be called a troll by GC
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sarnsereg posted:
GutterSludge posted:
sarnsereg posted:
the OP in the thread being referenced really didn't provide a valid post in anyway. all he sad was "mop won't save wow. only a new development team will save wow".
And at least 2 million subscribers that have left since Cata launched prove his statement 100% correct.
It wasn't a troll post. It was a statement, and a very valid one at that.
really? 2 million people believed that? please provide proof that all 2 million people that have "quit" or "stopped playing" or... you know.. as most of those accoutns were from china and not able to play.... please provide some proof that all 2 million of those left directly because of GC and the development team.
don't get me wrong, i'm sure a lot of the people that left did so because they didn't like cata. but how many left for a different game, or for financial reasons, or being in china or some other place where they just couldn't access the game anymore.
here's a beter theory.. around 11 million people believe you are 100% wrong because that's how many people are still playing the game. do some math, even if what the person is saying is true about 2 million people leaving because of the development ream.. 11 million are still loving what they are doing.
i feel cata has been the weekest expansion yet, but i still am enjoying it, especially with the latest patch with dragon soul and the LFR. i have very mixed feelings about what they are doing with mop. i don't know if i'll like it or not. but to pass judgement without seeing anything and essentially say "mop is a failure" before it's released because you don't like it is just wrong.
the community has overwhelmingly said "we don't like hardcore". they have said "we like what the hardcore call welfare epics because it's easy". and if that means they lose a couple million players but retain 10+ million.. i think they are just fine with that.
If you truly believe GC's constant "FU" attitude to the player base is not harming this game, I would a bridge I would like to sell you.
That poster who GC called a troll never even came close to saying MoP would be a failure. He said that WoW would not recover under the current dev team. I agree with him. I have zero interest in returning when MoP is released because I have grown tired of Blizzard's attitude towards their own customers.
I find it absolutely shocking that someone as high up in the Blizz food chain as GC is allowed to repeatedly and publicly insult, belittle and dismiss the player base and their concerns. Their arrogance is a huge reason why I left and is the main reason I decided not to resub a couple of weeks ago.
Netflix had a small taste of what happens when you piss off your customers. Blizz has gotten too much of a swelled head and think they can do no wrong. They need a reality check and if losing two million subs doesn't give them *some* indication that something is wrong, they are stupider then I thought.
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Eternal_Midnight
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A poster makes what seems like a legitimate post only to be called a troll by GC
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It's a troll post because it's not constructive in any way. Stating firstly that the next expansion won't save WoW, and then in the same breath saying the dev team needs to be canned is most definitely a troll.
The guy even says he's not going to discuss positives and negatives. In what way is this NOT a troll post??
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Arcilite_I
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A poster makes what seems like a legitimate post only to be called a troll by GC
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It blows my mind that we've come to an age where people capable of stating the most obvious solution to very complex issues is considered a troll.
They use to be called things like philosophers, visionaries and prophets.
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Eternal_Midnight
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A poster makes what seems like a legitimate post only to be called a troll by GC
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Arcilite_I posted:
It blows my mind that we've come to an age where people capable of stating the most obvious solution to very complex issues is considered a troll.
They use to be called things like philosophers, visionaries and prophets.
Don't be ridiculous. The most obvious solution for this person who posted the troll in the first place is for them to take their money elsewhere. That's actually the simplest solution.
Visionary? Prophets?   I'm willing to bet that 95% of the population base in WoW doesn't even know who Greg Street is.
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Thericia
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A poster makes what seems like a legitimate post only to be called a troll by GC
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Eternal_Midnight posted:
Arcilite_I posted:
It blows my mind that we've come to an age where people capable of stating the most obvious solution to very complex issues is considered a troll.
They use to be called things like philosophers, visionaries and prophets.
Don't be ridiculous. The most obvious solution for this person who posted the troll in the first place is for them to take their money elsewhere. That's actually the simplest solution.
Visionary? Prophets? I'm willing to bet that 95% of the population base in WoW doesn't even know who Greg Street is.
That's the same 95% of the WoW population that don't realize that WoW hasn't been a truly great game for years, they just keep paying and playing, because it's what they are supposed to do.
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JaredKorry
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A poster makes what seems like a legitimate post only to be called a troll by GC
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Eternal_Midnight posted:
Arcilite_I posted:
It blows my mind that we've come to an age where people capable of stating the most obvious solution to very complex issues is considered a troll.
They use to be called things like philosophers, visionaries and prophets.
Don't be ridiculous. The most obvious solution for this person who posted the troll in the first place is for them to take their money elsewhere. That's actually the simplest solution.
Visionary? Prophets? I'm willing to bet that 95% of the population base in WoW doesn't even know who Greg Street is.
2 million people and counting already have and yet GC continues to insist that "his vision" is the way it should be. I don't believe it was a troll post. It honestly doesn't really matter that much how good the next expansion is because, thanks to the current "we're right, you're wrong" and "play our way or stfu" attitude on display by Blizz, they are steadily losing customers.
But you're right, in a sense. If they fired GC and the new lead dev displayed the same attitude, it would do no good. I'm not saying Blizz should listen to or agree with everything a player says, but they definitely need to improve their public relations skills.
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