murron2
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Basketball and Football College Players: Should they be paid a 'salary'?
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We are talking big league schools...where these sports are king! Just curious  Truly...
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Chogram
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Basketball and Football College Players: Should they be paid a 'salary'?
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I've always been torn on this.
Football practically funds entire schools in some areas so the players who make it happen should get a cut...
However if you start paying them you run into several other issues like, why not let them go pro early? Why don't other sports get paid(for example IU soccer)? Can you still bench players for bad grades? Etc...
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Cuttlery
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Absolutely not.
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AliHajiSheik
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They don't have a solution that would be acceptable to Title IX.
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the_great_intex
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If they're any good they should have a scholarship already
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murron2
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Basketball and Football College Players: Should they be paid a 'salary'?
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Cuttlery posted:
Absolutely not.
Why not?
Truly...
~Murron~
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ArchrikerHG
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Basketball and Football College Players: Should they be paid a 'salary'?
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murron2 posted:
Cuttlery posted:
Absolutely not.
Why not?
Truly...
~Murron~
for the reasons already posted. If they are worth being paid, they should already be getting paid through a scholarship (free school). If they aren't that good, then it's obvious why they shouldn't. Also, why should a dumb jock get paid when someone who becomes a high dollar defense attorney who contributes regularly to the school fund after graduation does not get paid? They probably do more for the school than the sports player.
Also, they aren't pro, they are in school and paying their way through school by doing sports, just like regular people go through with a job.
I had another good reason when I started this, but I was helping put christmas decorations up and I've forgotten by now.
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Itab
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the_great_intex posted:
If they're any good they should have a scholarship already
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murron2
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I asked because I have been hearing about the NCPA and I think they have some valid points. Truly...
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murron2
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Itab posted:
the_great_intex posted:
If they're any good they should have a scholarship already
And if another coach comes on the scene that does not want that player on the team, he loses his scholarship. Is that copacetic as well?
Truly...
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Cuttlery
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murron2 posted:
Cuttlery posted:
Absolutely not.
Why not?
Truly...
~Murron~
For a multitude of reasons.
They get free school. There are millions who would give up everything for that. There are all kinds of issues with Title IX. Most schools lose money on athletics already. I personally dont want my tax money going to support paid athletes at a state college.
Now with all that being said I do think they need to ease up on the restrictions on what student athletes can do and how they can earn their own money, but there is absolutely no way I think they should be paid.
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murron2
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Would you consider a 'stipend' the same as a salary? Suppose the monies were NOT gotten from your tax dollars, have problems with it then? Just curious
Truly...
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Cuttlery
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Do students who get scholarships based on their high school GPA get stipends as well? They are going to contribute more than an athlete in the long run. There are also the Title IX issues still. I would feel more comfortable if I wasnt paying for it with my tax dollars but that brings up another issue. If you have a school like Oregon who has major backers like Phil Knight paying all of the football team or a team like Utah State who has no Phil Knight paying football players what school are all the players going to pick? It would make the competitive balance very bad, we'd see the same 5-10 teams every year.
I really think the solution is to ease restrictions on how players can make money. I think they should be able to market themselves at least on a limited basis, and the work restrictions on them are ridiculous.
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murron2
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Some of this addresses what you are talking about Cuttlery
Mandatory summer workouts, health care coverage for injuries incurred while playing, etc.
I thought it interesting...Truly!
~Murron~
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Sith_Mauler
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I wanna say yes but for every successful money making collegiate sports program that exists there are many more that have programs that aren't profitable.
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NeoKarnak
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I do not want to see college players getting paid a salary. The comments above pretty much cover it.
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Aerlinthian
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"school"  
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OG_Loki
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ArchrikerHG posted:
murron2 posted:
Cuttlery posted:
Absolutely not.
Why not?
Truly...
~Murron~
for the reasons already posted. If they are worth being paid, they should already be getting paid through a scholarship (free school). If they aren't that good, then it's obvious why they shouldn't. Also, why should a dumb jock get paid when someone who becomes a high dollar defense attorney who contributes regularly to the school fund after graduation does not get paid? They probably do more for the school than the sports player.
Also, they aren't pro, they are in school and paying their way through school by doing sports, just like regular people go through with a job.
I had another good reason when I started this, but I was helping put christmas decorations up and I've forgotten by now.
LOL So Jelly.
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Jezza_Belle
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I think it would be nice for some of the poorer students to have their families taken care of, because it would be a load off their minds that they're not just leaving their parents and siblings in the ghetto to end up on drugs or dead. It would allow them to relax and enjoy their college days more and focus on school and the game more IMO.
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Greyfox_MT
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I'm a complete anarchist.... you want sports? Separate it out of the schools.
I'm tired of hearing that all these people have to have sports to get an education. And don't even think about blowing the hot air that the sports programs support the educational side of the schools unless you have the accounting sheets to back it up.
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Galdwarf
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If they're good, then they'll get paid when they 'graduate to pro'. Paid better than any other field I can think of.
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Chogram
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Greyfox_MT posted:
I'm a complete anarchist.... you want sports? Separate it out of the schools.
I'm tired of hearing that all these people have to have sports to get an education. And don't even think about blowing the hot air that the sports programs support the educational side of the schools unless you have the accounting sheets to back it up.
Do you really need an accounting sheet to see that 100k people every single week coming to Michigan/Ohio State/Florida(Really any BCS school for that matter) helps the rest of the school and allows other lesser-watched sports to exist?
And that doesn't even include the TV deals, licensed equipment sales, etc...
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Chogram
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http://espn.go.com/ncaa/revenue/_/year/2009
2009 Alabama had 123 million in revenue.
Of course in your opinion, none of that helped anybody but the football team right?
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notmforce2k
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No, absolutely not for several reasons.
1) There is this grand idea that athletics (especially football) causes schools to just rake in boatloads of cash and that's simply not true. In fact, most schools lose money because whatever money football, and for SOME schools basketball, brings in they use to fund all the others. Field hockey and volleyball aren't exactly getting coverage on ESPN.
2) Legally speaking, if you pay the athletes of the most profitable sports, you have to pay all of them. You cannot discriminate. So football players will have to be paid the same as womens field hockey players.
3) Supposing that you DO pay all the school's athletes the same, who is to say what is appropriate? $2,000 per semester might be fine with donors at Texas but would absolutely break the bank for a school like Middle Tennessee State. The second that this becomes something the schools can decide for themselves, you will only see the rich getting richer. Programs like Texas, USC, Ohio State, and Alabama will absolutely dominate year in and year out. That doesn't work for most people in this country who have affiliations elsewhere and would be able to do little, if anything, to help their own schools.
4) Whenever athletes now are getting their hands on some money, it's never used for the things these people preach about. Everyone wants to make some SOB story about how they're supposed to buy books and clothes while in school, but whenever players are busted it always involves jewelry, cars, or dozens of pairs of shoes. It's all luxury items.
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notmforce2k
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Chogram posted:
Football practically funds entire schools in some areas so the players who make it happen should get a cut...
Like who? It becomes a catch 22 because the more money you have, the more successful you are, and the more you're on the hook for travel costs, big bowl game appearances, etc.. look no further than the annual stories of teams elected to BCS games that lose millions of dollars by going. It's a financial pitfall.
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mightbe
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nah no salary for the students....
look at penn state, they are paying for there sports program now
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OG_Loki
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MForce knows nothing about this subject and is basing all the crap coming out of his fingers on speculation and assumptions.
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tillsb
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AliHajiSheik posted:
They don't have a solution that would be acceptable to Title IX.
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I think college sports programs should all be shut down and the funds be reallocated towards scholastic programs.
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notmforce2k
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OG_Loki posted:
MForce knows nothing about this subject and is basing all the crap coming out of his fingers on speculation and assumptions.
Is that why you didn't post anything resembling an *actual* response? You're not refuting anything I said. If it's so easy and so out there, do it. Either support yourself or go back to posting about your balls.
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notmforce2k
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Here, because I'm a nice guy (and by "nice" I mean reasonably informed and can cite sources from a simple Google search) I'll get you started:
http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/REV_EXP_2010.pdf
http://sportsologist.com/college-athletics-by-the-number/
A recent NCAA report stated that only 14 of the 120 athletic programs in the Football Bowl Subdivision made money. The Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) includes all BCS conferences (PAC 10, SEC, Big 10, Big 12, etc) so odds are your favorite athletic program is losing money.
12% of college athletic programs are profitable.
And, like I specifically said, teams are on the hook to provide transportation and accommodations for themselves in most (if not all) events. Happy that your team made it to a BCS game? Tell that to UCONN, who lost millions in ticket sales and lost hotel bookings because their fans don't care at all about football. The school received an automatic bid and was stuck with the responsibilities that go with it. Have you seen any of the articles about Alabama and LSU each having to foot over $180,000 JUST so that their marching bands and cheerleaders can attend the BCS Championship game this year? And that's at a "discounted" ticket rate of a few hundred dollars per person. The schools are on the hook for that.
For Big Ten teams, the conference splits all bowl money evenly between all 12 schools, which further dwindles any "profits" that they receive to help pay for their travel accommodations.
http://chronicle.com/article/22-Elite-College-Sports/127921/
Twenty-two elite athletics departments made money in 2010, up from 14 the previous year, according to an annual spending report released on Wednesday by the NCAA...
The numbers weren't nearly as rosy for everyone else. At the 98 other programs in the NCAA's Football Bowl Subdivision (formerly Division I-A), the median deficit in 2010 was $11.6-million, barely changing from the previous year, while no programs in the Football Championship Subdivision (formerly Division I-AA) or at Division I programs without football operated in the black. At those programs, losses continue to grow each year.
So if you support paying players how are ANY of those 98 other programs in FBS, or ANY of the FCS teams are supposed to come up with money to pay when they're already in the red? I'm curious.
I'll hang up and listen.
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levgre
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That 12% profit doesn't take into account the huge salaries some staffs get.
Scholarships isn't the same as being paid. Someone on an academic scholarship is getting more value as they get paid to work towards a career. Being in a serious sports program works the student harder (academic + athletic responsibilities), plus athletes are less likely to go pro and get value from their scholarship.
Some sort of compensation for is not unreasonable, perhaps some sort of injury insurance at least.
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Eff em if they're too dumb for an academic scholarship then they don't deserve isht and the world will be better off when they're gone.
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JeffPassan Jeff Passan
Andrew Luck's scholarship: worth $53,000. Justin Blackmon's scholarship: worth $20,000. Fiesta Bowl CEO's salary: ~$600,000. Nice system.
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levgre posted:
plus athletes are less likely to go pro and get value from their scholarship.
Maybe they should have signed up for something other than "Human Kinetics".
I had a friend who took "Human Kinetics"... she got a credit for showing, playing volleyball and discussing the game. What a joke.
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No, but their scholarship money should be improved upon.
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levgre
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-Kruugar- posted:
levgre posted:
plus athletes are less likely to go pro and get value from their scholarship.
Maybe they should have signed up for something other than "Human Kinetics".
I had a friend who took "Human Kinetics"... she got a credit for showing, playing volleyball and discussing the game. What a joke.
That wasn't my point.. Students on an athletic scholarship have a larger base workload by default, being on a serious team and studying. People on an academic scholarship only have the academic duties to worry about.
And there are student athletes who do actually try to do well... and lots of non-athletes who don't give a ****.
Study time = value = money.
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vn_anon63xxx
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Basketball and Football College Players: Should they be paid a 'salary'?
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They are already getting compensated. Not only with free college but also with coaching, training and advertising. They get to be taught skills that can earn them a fortune if they play their cards right. They get the best coaching, the best training facilities and TV airtime.
Paying players will not stop the Reggie Bush's or Cam Newton's from trying to tap boosters for money. You can't pay them enough to be honest. They'll take money from the school and still tap the boosters for more money.
Also, there's the question of who you pay and how much. Do you pay the third string Safety as much as the starting QB? Do you pay the captain of the women's volleyball team the same as the starting point guard for the men's basketball team?
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Banelord_FF
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Basketball and Football College Players: Should they be paid a 'salary'?
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tillsb posted:
AliHajiSheik posted:
They don't have a solution that would be acceptable to Title IX.
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NSMachin
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Anon... They receive $500 USD a month to live on, no? I don't think that is enough. $1500 USD wouldn't be amiss, would it?
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Cuttlery
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Basketball and Football College Players: Should they be paid a 'salary'?
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NSMachin posted:
Anon... They receive $500 USD a month to live on, no? I don't think that is enough. $1500 USD wouldn't be amiss, would it?
They can get jobs like the rest of us.
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levgre
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Basketball and Football College Players: Should they be paid a 'salary'?
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Cuttlery posted:
NSMachin posted:
Anon... They receive $500 USD a month to live on, no? I don't think that is enough. $1500 USD wouldn't be amiss, would it?
They can get jobs like the rest of us.
They are working 40+ hours a week and generating lots of money... that is pretty much the definition of a job.
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NSMachin
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Basketball and Football College Players: Should they be paid a 'salary'?
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No, actually they cannot. I'm pretty sure that they're not allowed.
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vn_anon63xxx
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Basketball and Football College Players: Should they be paid a 'salary'?
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NSMachin posted:
Anon... They receive $500 USD a month to live on, no? I don't think that is enough. $1500 USD wouldn't be amiss, would it?
Why not $5k? Or, $25k?
There is no fair way to pay all the student athletes a salary that makes everyone happy. USC can't pay Matt Barkley what he's actually worth to the school. Are we going to pay a cricket player as much as we pay Andrew Luck?
You won't be able to "discriminate". Reggie Bush was NOT a student athlete. He was an athlete. Do we only pay athletes who keep a 3.5 GPA or higher? I mean, isn't that the argument? We want them to have more time to study. Do we tie salaries to academic success? If so, will that stop the dishonest athletes from taking money from boosters?
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Cuttlery
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Basketball and Football College Players: Should they be paid a 'salary'?
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levgre posted:
Cuttlery posted:
NSMachin posted:
Anon... They receive $500 USD a month to live on, no? I don't think that is enough. $1500 USD wouldn't be amiss, would it?
They can get jobs like the rest of us.
They are working 40+ hours a week and generating lots of money... that is pretty much the definition of a job.
90% of the time they are not generating lots of money. They also do their athletics a few months out of the school year. When I was going to college those times that I needed money, I got a job.
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Cuttlery
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Basketball and Football College Players: Should they be paid a 'salary'?
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NSMachin posted:
No, actually they cannot. I'm pretty sure that they're not allowed.
If you are referring to jobs yes they can, its just overly restrictive on what kind of jobs and how many hours etc. That I agree needs to change. They shouldnt be paid anything though for playing a game aside from the free education room and board they already get.
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NSMachin
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Basketball and Football College Players: Should they be paid a 'salary'?
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Cuttlery posted:
levgre posted:
Cuttlery posted:
[quote=NSMachin]Anon... They receive $500 USD a month to live on, no? I don't think that is enough. $1500 USD wouldn't be amiss, would it?
They can get jobs like the rest of us.
They are working 40+ hours a week and generating lots of money... that is pretty much the definition of a job.
90% of the time they are not generating lots of money. They also do their athletics a few months out of the school year. When I was going to college those times that I needed money, I got a job.[/quote]
You think that athletes don't need to train and/or practice when their sport isn't going on?
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Cuttlery
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Basketball and Football College Players: Should they be paid a 'salary'?
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NSMachin posted:
You think that athletes don't need to train and/or practice when their sport isn't going on?
Not as much as they need to eat.
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NSMachin
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Basketball and Football College Players: Should they be paid a 'salary'?
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So, by your stance, Cutt. Olympic Athletes shouldn't be given money so they can train their sport. They can just get a job, really.
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Dark_EternalFF
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They already get liquor and co-eds, what more could a college-age guy want?
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Basketball and Football College Players: Should they be paid a 'salary'?
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NSMachin posted:
So, by your stance, Cutt. Olympic Athletes shouldn't be given money so they can train their sport. They can just get a job, really.
College athletes are getting free education and free training, not the same as your olympian scenario.
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I honestly do not care, it does not matter until the NFL anyway.
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I'm totally bemused by your stance. Education takes time. Training takes time. Personal training on the athlete's own time happens as well...
... but they can ... support themselves with jobs, whereas it knocks students out WITHOUT athletics?
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I am in the side that they are already compensated with an education, room, and food on campus. That is enough for their undergrad tenure. MANY of these people would not be in college if not for their athletic skills so I think they're already comped a lot.
They can get jobs but that's just about impossible during spring, fall, and winter. I know for a fact that some from Michigan State have worked as movers, painters, and even bar bouncers over the summer months but you better believe that their salaries are tracked. Ohio state just got dinged for some kid making like a hundred bucks or something like that over what he was supposed to.
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Basketball and Football College Players: Should they be paid a 'salary'?
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notmforce2k posted:
I am in the side that they are already compensated with an education, room, and food on campus. That is enough for their undergrad tenure. MANY of these people would not be in college if not for their athletic skills so I think they're already comped a lot.
@jelly! Yes, but your academic science fairs do not bring in all the dough ray me like they do! 
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Cuttlery
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Basketball and Football College Players: Should they be paid a 'salary'?
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NSMachin posted:
I'm totally bemused by your stance. Education takes time. Training takes time. Personal training on the athlete's own time happens as well...
... but they can ... support themselves with jobs, whereas it knocks students out WITHOUT athletics?
If you are a student athlete you are being afforded a free education, free meals, free housing, free use of athletic facilities, free world class training, free world class coaching. If you want more than that you have to get a job. I understand you dont feel that way Machin but I am not in favor of paying any of my tax dollars for anything else. If they want extra spending money they can get jobs.
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levgre
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Basketball and Football College Players: Should they be paid a 'salary'?
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Cuttlery posted:
NSMachin posted:
I'm totally bemused by your stance. Education takes time. Training takes time. Personal training on the athlete's own time happens as well...
... but they can ... support themselves with jobs, whereas it knocks students out WITHOUT athletics?
If you are a student athlete you are being afforded a free education, free meals, free housing, free use of athletic facilities, free world class training, free world class coaching. If you want more than that you have to get a job. I understand you dont feel that way Machin but I am not in favor of paying any of my tax dollars for anything else. If they want extra spending money they can get jobs.
Professional sports players get coaching and training, it is done FOR the team's success and is irrelevant in this equation. It also has no value on its own, and useless outside the scope of the game. If they even are good enough to go pro, if they get injured that coaching/training will be of no value.
Yes, they get scholarships. But at schools with profitable programs they are earning their college tons of money under the terms of that scholarship. It is a unique situation in that regard.
College football is a billion dollar business, there is nothing saying even 1$ of your taxes would have to be used in reforming the system.
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Basketball and Football College Players: Should they be paid a 'salary'?
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Do we want to pay all "student athletes" or just the elite athletes?
There is one type of compensation that is never discussed by the athletes or the media talking heads. Namely, the contacts that elite athletes make at elite schools that can jumpstart their post college career.
Think about Matt Barkley. He could suffer a career ending injury in his first game next year and he would still be set for life.
He has already endeared himself with every powertful USC alumni in america. His name and status at USC can open doors that most students could never even dream of.
These high caliber players have access that is not available to regular students. I can only guess how many job offers guys like Luck, Barkley or RG3 would receive if they got hurt prior to turning pro.
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Cuttlery
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Basketball and Football College Players: Should they be paid a 'salary'?
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levgre posted:
Professional sports players get coaching and training, it is done FOR the team's success and is irrelevant in this equation. It also has no value on its own, and useless outside the scope of the game. If they even are good enough to go pro, if they get injured that coaching/training will be of no value.
Yes, they get scholarships. But at schools with profitable programs they are earning their college tons of money under the terms of that scholarship. It is a unique situation in that regard.
College football is a billion dollar business, there is nothing saying even 1$ of your taxes would have to be used in reforming the system.
Again, 90% of college sports programs make NO money, none, nadda, zero, zippo.
Just like any student, college athletes are going to school to further their careers, thats what they get in return. If they want to be paid they can get jobs. Medical doctors go to school for 8-12 years, dont get paid squat for college or their internships, and contribute vastly more than athletes.
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JD_HOGG
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Basketball and Football College Players: Should they be paid a 'salary'?
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The administrators and the coaching staff are getting paid in the millions off the football and basketball programs. Many athletes end up with debilitating injuries to make those administrators and coaches dreams come true.
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JD_HOGG
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Basketball and Football College Players: Should they be paid a 'salary'?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrone_Prothro
This is typical. Guy plays his heart out, wins some big games for his university. He breaks his ankle in a game, and ends any hopes he might have had for getting into the NFL. University of Alabama administrators and coaches made millions of dollars off his contributions to the program. Tyrone Protho meanwhile lands a job as a bank teller.
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Basketball and Football College Players: Should they be paid a 'salary'?
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JD_HOGG posted:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrone_Prothro
This is typical. Guy plays his heart out, wins some big games for his university. He breaks his ankle in a game, and ends any hopes he might have had for getting into the NFL. University of Alabama administrators and coaches made millions of dollars off his contributions to the program. Tyrone Protho meanwhile lands a job as a bank teller.
There is insurance available for instances exactly like that. Can't say I'm any more familiar with it than that and I doubt it covers the totality of lifetime lost wages for a big time nfl or nba contract. I'm against athletes getting paid cash, but I wouldn't see a problem with the school picking up the tab on insurance to cover instances like this. I'm also assuming there's nothing stopping the school from giving the guy a general scholarship to finish his degree.
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Basketball and Football College Players: Should they be paid a 'salary'?
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ITT: HOGG gets mad at the wrong people.
Is your solution for no school to field athletic teams in an effort to protect everyone? Or are we just ignoring that these students are provided bachelor degrees (in a field of their choosing) to fall back on? Almost every college athlete is not going to be a professional in their sport but we don't see millions of former NCAA athletes out there struggling in the world. There are reasons for that.
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