Brandun
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Radio just said so
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Cao_Ren
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Yup. 
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7414912/polians-relieved-duties-indianapolis-colts-source-says
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tsingtao2
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Colts fire executives Bill and Chris Polian after 2-14 season
Colts fire executives Bill and Chris Polian after 2-14 season
Colts fire executives Bill and Chris Polian after 2-14 season
Colts fire executives Bill and Chris Polian after 2-14 season
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Sith_Mauler
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man that is a little harsh have one losing season in the past decade because your starting qb goes down and you get fired.
They will be hired by another organization.
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Cuttlery
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Manning has been covering up for how crappy their drafts have been for quite awhile, now everyone knows it.
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tsingtao2
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rumors flyng around nfl network that caldwell is gone, and so is Manning.
press conf on wnde (local station thank goodness) at 5pm EST
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Chogram
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Cuttlery posted:
Manning has been covering up for how crappy their drafts have been for quite awhile, now everyone knows it.
Yep.
Bill Polian is a genius who was planning on retiring this season anyway.
His son, who has done the drafting the last 4-5 years, sucks.
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Cuttlery
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Which means they dont think Manning will be healthy, or at least they dont think he will be healthy enough to pay that extra 20 some million to him in March if he is still on the roster.
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Chogram
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Cuttlery posted:
Which means they dont think Manning will be healthy, or at least they dont think he will be healthy enough to pay that extra 20 some million to him in March if he is still on the roster.
Not necessarily.
They could be planning on trading the #1 pick for a kings ransom and giving the new GM several picks fast to build a team.
edit:
I'd love to see Bill Cowher coach and bring in somebody like Monte Ball and have a dominant run game though, especially if Manning is anywhere near 100%...
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No I get that, but according to tsing in his post above Manning is also out. I cant imagine they'd just dump Manning unless they knew he was not going to be able to play. They cant trade the pick if they also dump Manning, that'd leave them with no QB.
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Sith_Mauler
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If the Colts cut Manning to avoid paying out the 20+ million, then you will see players no longer restructure contracts to help their team with salary cap issues.
Manning was nice enough to back load the contract 2 years ago to help the team, and then the team wants to cut him for salary cap reasons.
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Cuttlery
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Sith_Mauler posted:
If the Colts cut Manning to avoid paying out the 20+ million, then you will see players no longer restructure contracts to help their team team.
Manning was nice enough to back load the contract to help the team, and then the teams wants to cut him for salary cap reasons.
Completely disagree. For one the Colts gave him huge money this year even though he was obviously hurt and not going to play. Secondly cutting him is better for him than paying that 20 million. He can chose who he wants to play for, instead of the Colts potentially trading him to someone like Minnesota who is going to suck nuts.
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Chogram
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Sith_Mauler posted:
If the Colts cut Manning to avoid paying out the 20+ million, then you will see players no longer restructure contracts to help their team with salary cap issues.
Manning was nice enough to back load the contract 2 years ago to help the team, and then the team wants to cut him for salary cap reasons.
Except that he insisted that it be put into his contract because he knew that the surgery was coming up and didn't want to burden the Colts.
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Sith_Mauler
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Cuttlery posted:
Sith_Mauler posted:
If the Colts cut Manning to avoid paying out the 20+ million, then you will see players no longer restructure contracts to help their team team.
Manning was nice enough to back load the contract to help the team, and then the teams wants to cut him for salary cap reasons.
Completely disagree. For one the Colts gave him huge money this year even though he was obviously hurt and not going to play. Secondly cutting him is better for him than paying that 20 million. He can chose who he wants to play for, instead of the Colts potentially trading him to someone like Minnesota who is going to suck nuts.
what part of binding contract do you not understand? the Colts had to pay him this year.
teams can not cut players because of injury unless the player agrees to it and then there is a injury settlement(basically workmans comp) involved.
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Sith_Mauler posted:
what part of binding contract do you not understand? the Colts had to pay him this year.
teams can not cut players because of injury unless the player agrees to it and then there is a injury settlement(basically workmans comp) involved.
The Colts were forced to sign a hurt free agent Peyton Manning to a huge essentially one year contract?
Tell us oh football genius why they were forced to do this?
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Cuttlery posted:
Sith_Mauler posted:
what part of binding contract do you not understand? the Colts had to pay him this year.
teams can not cut players because of injury unless the player agrees to it and then there is a injury settlement(basically workmans comp) involved.
The Colts were forced to sign a hurt free agent Peyton Manning to a huge essentially one year contract?
Tell us oh football genius why they were forced to do this?
they werent forced to do crap they chose to franchise him first and then they signed him to a 5 year contract extension before he had the surgery, if they didnt want to pay him then why resign him?
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Sith_Mauler posted:
they werent forced to do crap they chose to sign him to a 5 year contract extension before he had the surgery, if they didnt want to pay him then why resign him?
Are you serious????
They signed him to a 5 year deal knowing he was still hurt as a favor for services rendered, which is part of why the 1 year opt out is in the contract. They knew he was hurt, he knew he was hurt. They threw him a bone because no other team was going to pay even a Peyton Manning that much to just sit there while healing from surgery and they owed him.
You cant be serious.
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Chogram
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They paid him in the hopes that he would recover and his contract was up(and I'm sure that they still do hope that he recovers)...
wtf are the two of you smoking?
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Chogram posted:
They paid him in the hopes that he would recover and his contract was up(and I'm sure that they still do hope that he recovers)...
wtf are the two of you smoking?
I'm sure they do as well, but with the reports that he is out in Indy the rest of the recovery wont be with them. Either way Indy did him a huge favor by paying him when he was obviously not going to be playing.
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Brandun
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I am guessing they take Luck and groom him for years to come under manning,, that would be my guess
I know there was some grumblings from manning on this.. but not sure of the story.. Chogram? whats the deal with this?
Is Manning for them taking Luck?
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Chogram
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Brandun posted:
I am guessing they take Luck and groom him for years to come under manning,, that would be my guess
I know there was some grumblings from manning on this.. but not sure of the story.. Chogram? whats the deal with this?
Is Manning for them taking Luck?
In his entire career the only thing he ever says about drafting players is basically that it's not his job and he'll play with whoever we get.
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Chogram
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Cuttlery posted:
Chogram posted:
They paid him in the hopes that he would recover and his contract was up(and I'm sure that they still do hope that he recovers)...
wtf are the two of you smoking?
I'm sure they do as well, but with the reports that he is out in Indy the rest of the recovery wont be with them. Either way Indy did him a huge favor by paying him when he was obviously not going to be playing.
Link to reports of him being out.
edit: And when he signed the contract report said he'd play again in 3-6 months so you can't put much stock in those anyway 
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Cuttlery
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Chogram posted:
Link to reports of him being out.
edit: And when he signed the contract report said he'd play again in 3-6 months so you can't put much stock in those anyway
I dont have them, this whole discussing started because thats what Tsing said in a post above while he was listening to some radio stuff in Indy. Keep up.
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Chogram
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Cuttlery posted:
Chogram posted:
Link to reports of him being out.
edit: And when he signed the contract report said he'd play again in 3-6 months so you can't put much stock in those anyway
I dont have them, this whole discussing started because thats what Tsing said in a post above while he was listening to some radio stuff in Indy. Keep up.
I likely get the same radio stations that he does.
They were just speculating about Manning, and as of 3:45pm Caldwell hadn't been told he was fired yet either.
http://www.indystar.com/article/20120102/SPORTS03/120102040/Colts-coach-Jim-Caldwell-m-moving-forward-until-otherwise-notified-
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Chogram posted:
Brandun posted:
I am guessing they take Luck and groom him for years to come under manning,, that would be my guess
I know there was some grumblings from manning on this.. but not sure of the story.. Chogram? whats the deal with this?
Is Manning for them taking Luck?
In his entire career the only thing he ever says about drafting players is basically that it's not his job and he'll play with whoever we get.
I heard he didn't like it at all and was whining about it
to be fair though, that was coming from Boston radio
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I cant imagine they'd keep both Manning and Luck, too much profit to be made from getting rid of one of them. The flip side to that though is whether or not Manning is healing and they can get anything for him.
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Sith_Mauler
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Then Indy is stupid for resigning a injured player with an injury to that kind of money.
they should've have left the franchise tag on him, and that would have gave the team flexibility in their decision making.
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Brandun posted:
Chogram posted:
Brandun posted:
I am guessing they take Luck and groom him for years to come under manning,, that would be my guess
I know there was some grumblings from manning on this.. but not sure of the story.. Chogram? whats the deal with this?
Is Manning for them taking Luck?
In his entire career the only thing he ever says about drafting players is basically that it's not his job and he'll play with whoever we get.
I heard he didn't like it at all and was whining about it
to be fair though, that was coming from Boston radio
There was a thing on SNF or MNF one week where they told Manning that Polian had said something
about discussing the draft with him, and Manning responded with what I posted above adding that
he didn't know why Polian would discuss things like that with him now when he never had before.
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Cuttlery posted:
I cant imagine they'd keep both Manning and Luck, too much profit to be made from getting rid of one of them. The flip side to that though is whether or not Manning is healing and they can get anything for him.
no one is going to touch Manning until he proves he can play again, he has been in the league 16-17 season now, that is old for a nfl player.
and if manning does return and plays halfway decent they will not have another chance at a #1 pick for a couple seasons to come.
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Sith_Mauler posted:
Then Indy is stupid for resigning a injured player with an injury to that kind of money.
they should've have left the franchise tag on him, and that would have gave the team flexibility in their decision making.
One could make a good argument that Peyton Manning is the best QB to ever play the game, and nobody intelligent puts him outside of the top 5-10.
If the doctors initial reports are that he will take out, at most, a season. Why would you let him go?
The fact that he didn't recover properly has nothing to do with signing the contract last year, that's just bad luck.
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Not only was it worth the risk that he'd heal and be back but Indy owed it to Manning to sign him regardless. He's done more for that franchise than pretty much any player in the league, they owe it to him to throw him a bone and take the risk.
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a franchise tag is good a full nfl year, and it can be renewed.
the only downside is the player is offered a minimum of the average of the top five salaries at the player's position as of April 16, or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater.
Indy did not have to resign Peyton, franchise him and let him heal, if he does great here is a new contract if he doesn't well you are only on the hook for that seasons salary.
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Again you are contradicting yourself. You were just saying that the Colts wouldnt get any free agents wanting to come there for not taking care of their players, putting the franchise tag on anyone is a good way for them to hate you. Quit trolling you are too obvious.
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Cuttlery posted:
Again you are contradicting yourself. You were just saying that the Colts wouldnt get any free agents wanting to come there for not taking care of their players, putting the franchise tag on anyone is a good way for them to hate you. Quit trolling you are too obvious.
really are you that dense do you know how franchise tags work?
• A club can designate one franchise player or one transition player in any given year.
• The salary level offer by a player's old club determines what type of franchise player he is.
• An "exclusive" franchise player -- not free to sign with another club -- is offered a minimum of the average of the top five salaries at the player's position as of April 16, or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater.
• If the player is offered a minimum of the average of the top five salaries of last season at his position, or 120 percent of the player’s previous year’s salary, he becomes a “non-exclusive†franchise player and can negotiate with other clubs. His old club can match a new club's offer, or receive two first-round draft choices if it decides not to match. The signing period for non-exclusive franchise players to sign with new clubs is March 3 through November 9 (10th week of the season).
getting franchised and getting guaranteed money for a single season is a whole lot better than signing a long term contract that is back end loaded and then team doesnt want to pay you so they cut you.
you want a example go look at Philly they signed all those free agents last year but their contracts are all back end heavy.
so they are okay until the end of next season when all those escalators start kicking in in year 3 and 4.
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Sith_Mauler posted:
Cuttlery posted:
Again you are contradicting yourself. You were just saying that the Colts wouldnt get any free agents wanting to come there for not taking care of their players, putting the franchise tag on anyone is a good way for them to hate you. Quit trolling you are too obvious.
really are you that dense do you know how franchise tags work?
• A club can designate one franchise player or one transition player in any given year.
• The salary level offer by a player's old club determines what type of franchise player he is.
• An "exclusive" franchise player -- not free to sign with another club -- is offered a minimum of the average of the top five salaries at the player's position as of April 16, or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater.
• If the player is offered a minimum of the average of the top five salaries of last season at his position, or 120 percent of the player’s previous year’s salary, he becomes a “non-exclusive†franchise player and can negotiate with other clubs. His old club can match a new club's offer, or receive two first-round draft choices if it decides not to match. The signing period for non-exclusive franchise players to sign with new clubs is March 3 through November 9 (10th week of the season).
Do you watch football at all? Do you know how players feel about the franchise tag?
YOU just said a few minutes ago that players wouldnt go to Indy because of disrespecting Manning if they released him, now you think they should have franchised him even though pretty much every player in the league HATES the franchise tag? Again, contracting yourself.
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Subject:
Bill Polian out in Indy ??
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Cuttlery posted:
Sith_Mauler posted:
Cuttlery posted:
Again you are contradicting yourself. You were just saying that the Colts wouldnt get any free agents wanting to come there for not taking care of their players, putting the franchise tag on anyone is a good way for them to hate you. Quit trolling you are too obvious.
really are you that dense do you know how franchise tags work?
• A club can designate one franchise player or one transition player in any given year.
• The salary level offer by a player's old club determines what type of franchise player he is.
• An "exclusive" franchise player -- not free to sign with another club -- is offered a minimum of the average of the top five salaries at the player's position as of April 16, or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater.
• If the player is offered a minimum of the average of the top five salaries of last season at his position, or 120 percent of the player’s previous year’s salary, he becomes a “non-exclusive†franchise player and can negotiate with other clubs. His old club can match a new club's offer, or receive two first-round draft choices if it decides not to match. The signing period for non-exclusive franchise players to sign with new clubs is March 3 through November 9 (10th week of the season).
Do you watch football at all? Do you know how players feel about the franchise tag?
YOU just said a few minutes ago that players wouldnt go to Indy because of disrespecting Manning if they released him, now you think they should have franchised him even though pretty much every player in the league HATES the franchise tag? Again, contracting yourself.
its better than having a Indian giver deal.
which is what this situation in Indy is starting to look like.
the bottom line with a franchise tag is you get paid no matter what, its guaranteed money, its not contingent on performance or other clauses.
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Cuttlery
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Subject:
Bill Polian out in Indy ??
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Sith_Mauler posted:
its better than having a Indian giver deal.
which is what this situation in Indy is starting to look like.
the bottom line with a franchise tag is you get paid no matter what, its guaranteed money, its not contingent on performance or other clauses.
So on the planet you are from, giving Manning a deal that would make him the richest person in the NFL (provided he could play), while hurt, and unsure if he'd ever recover, while not pissing him off by franchising him, while Manning insisted on a opt out clause for the club after the first year because he didnt want to strangle the franchise who was throwing him a bone, is a indian giver deal...
Check.
Now I know you arent being serious.
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Sith_Mauler
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Subject:
Bill Polian out in Indy ??
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Cuttlery posted:
Sith_Mauler posted:
its better than having a Indian giver deal.
which is what this situation in Indy is starting to look like.
the bottom line with a franchise tag is you get paid no matter what, its guaranteed money, its not contingent on performance or other clauses.
So on the planet you are from, giving Manning a deal that would make him the richest person in the NFL (provided he could play), while hurt, and unsure if he'd ever recover, while not pissing him off by franchising him, while Manning insisted on a opt out clause for the club after the first year because he didnt want to strangle the franchise who was throwing him a bone, is a indian giver deal...
Check.
Now I know you arent being serious.
except he hasnt healed yet and he wont be until after the draft. also he had a second surgery for other issues with his neck and nerves, Teh Colts wont know if Peyton is fully healed until he takes the field again, just because a doc says he is medically healed doesn't mean he is back at his old form. no body knows until camp starts which is after the draft.
Indy can cut him before whatever day that roster bonuses are due and pay him a injury settlement which will be a fraction of what he would have received if he played.
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MagicmanV
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Subject:
Bill Polian out in Indy ??
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Sith_Mauler posted:
If the Colts cut Manning to avoid paying out the 20+ million, then you will see players no longer restructure contracts to help their team with salary cap issues.
Manning was nice enough to back load the contract 2 years ago to help the team, and then the team wants to cut him for salary cap reasons.
but his current deal was front loaded  final 2 years are for something lik 8m
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MagicmanV
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Subject:
Bill Polian out in Indy ??
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Cuttlery posted:
Not only was it worth the risk that he'd heal and be back but Indy owed it to Manning to sign him regardless. He's done more for that franchise than pretty much any player in the league, they owe it to him to throw him a bone and take the risk.
had to be for the past. the contract was negotiated between Manning and Irsay over lunch. As Irsay says it was done on a napkin.
This season was back pay in their eyes
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Sith_Mauler
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Subject:
Bill Polian out in Indy ??
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MagicmanV posted:
Sith_Mauler posted:
If the Colts cut Manning to avoid paying out the 20+ million, then you will see players no longer restructure contracts to help their team with salary cap issues.
Manning was nice enough to back load the contract 2 years ago to help the team, and then the team wants to cut him for salary cap reasons.
but his current deal was front loaded final 2 years are for 8m
Manning renegotiated his contract a few seasons ago I think around when they won the superbowl or it was the season right after it to help the team retain some players. At the time I think it was stated that Manning would be paid as top qb in the league when his contract was renewed this was driven by the Brady deal.
2011 comes around he gets his contract but due to injury issues keeping him out for the full season, which now nobody really nows his playing status with roughly $23 million dollars due Manning for no services rendered if he is still on the roster come roster bonus day.
so what do you do if your the gm? well they fired the old gm so the replacement has his work cut out for him.
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I'm wild and a little crazy too
I have seen a lot of things in my life time.
That is why I walk the line I walk.
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Cuttlery
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Subject:
Bill Polian out in Indy ??
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Sith_Mauler posted:
Manning renegotiated his contract a few seasons ago I think around when they won the superbowl or it was the season right after it to help the team retain some players. At the time I think it was stated that Manning would be paid as top qb in the league when his contract was renewed this was driven by the Brady deal.
2011 comes around he gets his contract but due to injury issues keeping him out for the full season, which now nobody really nows his playing status with roughly $23 million dollars due Manning for no services rendered if he is still on the roster come roster bonus day.
so what do you do if your the gm? well they fired the old gm so the replacement has his work cut out for him.
Easy, if you think he will be healthy you keep him and trade the first pick for immediate needs, and get a free agent backup QB. If you dont think he will be healthy you cut him so he can choose his own team and take Luck.
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suntzukali2
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Bill Polian out in Indy ??
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Bill Polian getting fired is a good thing. A new qb ,new coaches new gm the team is going to start over and it probably should.
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