Kamdar
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Subject:
Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jan/1/eeoc-high-school-diploma-might-violate-americans-w/
Employers are facing more uncertainty in the wake of a letter from the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission warning them that requiring a high school diploma from a job applicant might violate the Americans with Disabilities Act.
This is great news! No only does America suck in the Education dept, but now more incentive to not go to college!!@
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Obama 05 "Congress having to raise the debt ceiling shows the utter failure that is Pres Bush"
Obama '11 " Congress NOT raising the debt ceiling shows the utter failure that is the
R
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NuEM
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Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Way to be competitive on the global market. 
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Walker_ID
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Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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having a HS diploma doesn't give a potential employer any relevant information....it's a dumb requirement anyways
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You can't outrun Darwin
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RHWarrior
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Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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There are high schools giving classes on how to break the law proper?
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"Drink coffee - do stupids things faster with more energy! ...and I'm all out of beans..." -me
"You guys need to stop dick riding wow and compare everything to it. It never invented a godamn thing, just made it popular. " -tinkly
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__Bonk__
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Subject:
Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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HS is so easy to pass. Cant believe some people drop out
Just do your homework and show up for class and you will pass
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A change in feeling is a change in destiny.
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Tych2
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Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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If you can't graduate HS I don't want you working for me. It shows me a lack of commitment.
-----signature-----
We have enough youth. What we need is a fountain of smart.
Drill Anwar!
Kapie
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Orwyn_Blackheart
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Subject:
Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Tych2 posted:
If you can't graduate HS I don't want you working for me. It shows me a lack of commitment.
Why dont you finish taking off that black underwear and i will work my long and hard commitment into you, you will be suitably impressed.
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Thugoneous
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Subject:
Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Well that the first rape threat I've seen on the Outpost.
Happy New Year!
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Lady, people aren't chocolates. D'you know what they are mostly? Bastards. Bastard-coated bastards with bastard filling.
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Crooq_Lionfang
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Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Didn't know Sobaki rerolled...
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Yukishiro1
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Subject:
Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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"The “informal discussion letter†from the EEOC said an employer’s requirement of a high school diploma, long a standard criterion for screening potential employees, must be “job-related for the position in question and consistent with business necessity.†The letter was posted on the commission’s website on Dec. 2.
Employers could run afoul of the ADA if their requirement of a high school diploma “‘screens out’ an individual who is unable to graduate because of a learning disability that meets the ADA’s definition of ‘disability,’†the EEOC explained.
The commission’s advice, which does not carry the force of law, is raising alarms among employment-law professionals, who say it could carry far-reaching implications for businesses.
Maria Greco Danaher, a lawyer with the labor and employment law firm Ogletree Deakins, said the EEOC letter means that employers must determine whether job applicants whose learning disabilities kept them from obtaining diplomas can perform the essential job functions, with or without reasonable accommodation. She said the development is “worthy of notice†for employers.
“While an employer is not required to ‘prefer’ a learning-disabled applicant over other applicants with more extensive qualifications, it is clear that the EEOC is informing employers that disabled individuals cannot be excluded from consideration for employment based upon artificial barriers in the form of inflexible qualification standards,†she wrote in a blog post."
OH MY GOD we might not be able to discriminate against disabled people who can't graduate because of their disability, the sky is falling!!11
I often get the impression people like Kamdar don't even bother to ead the articles they post and just go with the one sentence "summary" they get from their talking points website.
Edit: Also, it isn't "to be illegal." The EEOC's letter has no status as force of law. It shows the agency's interpretation but that doesn't make it the law.
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__Bonk__
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Subject:
Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Thugoneous posted:
Well that the first rape threat I've seen on the Outpost.
Happy New Year!
Hive of scum and villiany
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I keep my eyes fixed on the sun!
A change in feeling is a change in destiny.
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vn_nnanji
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Subject:
Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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So the takaway is that Oral_Backdoor imagines Tych in black panties?
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Tych2
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Subject:
Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Orwyn_Blackheart posted:
Tych2 posted:
If you can't graduate HS I don't want you working for me. It shows me a lack of commitment.
Why dont you finish taking off that black underwear and i will work my long and hard commitment into you, you will be suitably impressed.
I have no idea what that even means, but I am not surprised you don't even have a HS diploma
-----signature-----
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Drill Anwar!
Kapie
Drevid in Tanks
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Bonzoboy1
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Subject:
Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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We had some people around here not to long ago who were charging people to take the high school equivalency test, is our nations IQ dropping?
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Politicians are like diapers, they should be changed often and for the same reason.
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__Bonk__
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Subject:
Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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This is why more and more employers are doing preemployment tests with basic math and other skills the average person shouldve learned in HS. This is how they weed out the dropouts
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A change in feeling is a change in destiny.
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Bobvillas
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Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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I give Orwyn another month before he has himself so worked up into a lather that he gets banned completely.
What a train wreck.
-----signature-----
"well honestly i didnt learn "jw" on the net i learned it from multiple females that have texted me. but keep on truckin broheim." Thorikos http://fluffytit.mybrute.com
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Orwyn_Blackheart
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Subject:
Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Bobvillas posted:
I give Orwyn another month before he has himself so worked up into a lather that he gets banned completely.
What a train wreck.
you should train wreck your face........ right into my crotch...........
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Orwyn_Blackheart
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Subject:
Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Tych2 posted:
Orwyn_Blackheart posted:
Tych2 posted:
If you can't graduate HS I don't want you working for me. It shows me a lack of commitment.
Why dont you finish taking off that black underwear and i will work my long and hard commitment into you, you will be suitably impressed.
I have no idea what that even means, but I am not surprised you don't even have a HS diploma
yeah you have a college degree?
look where it got you dumbass
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Crooq_Lionfang
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Subject:
Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Orwyn_Blackheart posted:
You're more educated, therefore I win
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Tych2
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Subject:
Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Orwyn_Blackheart posted:
yeah you have a college degree?
look where it got you dumbass
I am pretty successful by just about any measure. You are on the other hand, as someone already pointed out, are a train wreck. Someone who is afraid to say where they come from.
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Drill Anwar!
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Bobvillas
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Subject:
Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Orwyn_Blackheart posted:
Bobvillas posted:
I give Orwyn another month before he has himself so worked up into a lather that he gets banned completely.
What a train wreck.
you should train wreck your face........ right into my crotch...........
a/s/l?
Are you Shia or Sunni? I want to make sure I dress appropriately.
-----signature-----
"well honestly i didnt learn "jw" on the net i learned it from multiple females that have texted me. but keep on truckin broheim." Thorikos http://fluffytit.mybrute.com
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Orwyn_Blackheart
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Subject:
Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Crooq_Lionfang posted:
Orwyn_Blackheart posted:
You're more educated, therefore I win
more educated than me? you can't be sure, you don't know my educational record 
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Orwyn_Blackheart
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Subject:
Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Tych2 posted:
Orwyn_Blackheart posted:
yeah you have a college degree?
look where it got you dumbass
I am pretty successful by just about any measure. You are on the other hand, as someone already pointed out, are a train wreck. Someone who is afraid to say where they come from.
haha dude your a broken record..... boring, got nothing new son ?
You might be successful in real life, but your lack of empathy for innocents dying sort of takes away from who you are as a person
But feel free to continue being a self serving hypocritical barbarian
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Orwyn_Blackheart
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Subject:
Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Bobvillas posted:
Orwyn_Blackheart posted:
Bobvillas posted:
I give Orwyn another month before he has himself so worked up into a lather that he gets banned completely.
What a train wreck.
you should train wreck your face........ right into my crotch...........
a/s/l?
Are you Shia or Sunni? I want to make sure I dress appropriately.
Wow not content with proving earlier that you were racist, you continue again
Congratulations on being a backward human being, I bet your only this brave on the Outpost !
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Clackdor
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Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Yukishiro1 posted:
You need to hire a lawyer to figure out if you can require a high school diploma for a job application.
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If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominos will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate.
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Crooq_Lionfang
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Subject:
Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Orwyn_Blackheart posted:
Crooq_Lionfang posted:
Orwyn_Blackheart posted:
You're more educated, therefore I win
more educated than me? you can't be sure, you don't know my educational record
Well, you said you got him with your question regarding his college degree (which I think is kind of mandatory in his line of work, no?), making my interpretation the most plausible. But feel free to explain what else you meant if I was wrong.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Subject:
Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Clackdor posted:
Yukishiro1 posted:
You need to hire a lawyer to figure out if you can require a high school diploma for a job application.
Yes, that's actually what he is saying. And he believes it makes sense. He's a member of the Goldfish Consortium... it is useless arguing with that kind of counterproductive illogical nanny-dom.
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In the immortal words of Socrates - "I drank what?"
"God you guys suck at the internet - how can you fail to locate porn?!" - Eternal_Midnight
"Knowing means nothing." - Fat-badger
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Orwyn_Blackheart
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Subject:
Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Crooq_Lionfang posted:
Orwyn_Blackheart posted:
Crooq_Lionfang posted:
[quote=Orwyn_Blackheart]You're more educated, therefore I win
more educated than me? you can't be sure, you don't know my educational record
Well, you said you got him with your question regarding his college degree (which I think is kind of mandatory in his line of work, no?), making my interpretation the most plausible. But feel free to explain what else you meant if I was wrong.[/quote]
Hi Crooq
I haven't been here long. I don't know what his job is, and frankly neither do I care. This is the Internet, I am not interested in knowning someones' personal details I think it should stay private
Also, I never said I got tych, all I was saying is he might have a degree, but in his instance, it certainly is not an indicator of being educated. He is barbarous Anyone who agrees with the hurting of another people for self gain is definately uneducated, inhumane and a danger to humanity as a whole
I eagerly await the stupidity of the comments to follow by tych, reese, and moe, and this obviously inbred bobdumbass guy.
Its ok, with people like this around humanity is forever cursed to being infantile.
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Crooq_Lionfang
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Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Edit: I see my fail and hang my head in shame. Damn little letter 
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Orwyn_Blackheart
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Subject:
Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Crooq_Lionfang posted:
Edit: I see my fail and hang my head in shame. Damn little letter
naw man, its cool
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Tych2
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Subject:
Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Orwyn_Blackheart posted:
Tych2 posted:
Orwyn_Blackheart posted:
yeah you have a college degree?
look where it got you dumbass
I am pretty successful by just about any measure. You are on the other hand, as someone already pointed out, are a train wreck. Someone who is afraid to say where they come from.
haha dude your a broken record..... boring, got nothing new son ?
You might be successful in real life, but your lack of empathy for innocents dying sort of takes away from who you are as a person
But feel free to continue being a self serving hypocritical barbarian
And as I've said many times you are a coward.
-----signature-----
We have enough youth. What we need is a fountain of smart.
Drill Anwar!
Kapie
Drevid in Tanks
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Orwyn_Blackheart
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Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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nt
-----signature-----
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Tych2
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Subject:
Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Orwyn_Blackheart posted:
Ok, enough of your fucking retarded moronic rubbish
What does my race or citizenship have to do with anything?
You are the kind of imbecile who cannot argue a point based on the facts. You must include the persons' race to explain their point of view
Shut up you broken record
U mad bro? Only a coward is afraid to say where they come from. It appears you are a coward.
Too late. Your anger is on display!
-----signature-----
We have enough youth. What we need is a fountain of smart.
Drill Anwar!
Kapie
Drevid in Tanks
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Orwyn_Blackheart
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Subject:
Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Tych2 posted:
Orwyn_Blackheart posted:
Tych2 posted:
[quote=Orwyn_Blackheart]
yeah you have a college degree?
look where it got you dumbass
I am pretty successful by just about any measure. You are on the other hand, as someone already pointed out, are a train wreck. Someone who is afraid to say where they come from.
haha dude your a broken record..... boring, got nothing new son ?
You might be successful in real life, but your lack of empathy for innocents dying sort of takes away from who you are as a person
But feel free to continue being a self serving hypocritical barbarian
And as I've said many times you are a coward. [/quote]
OH YOU WOUND ME STUPID INTERNET GUY !
I"M HURT ! I"M CRYING !
O WOE ~ TYCH THE RACIST, DESTROYER OF SOULS !
happy now ?
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Orwyn_Blackheart
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Subject:
Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Tych2 posted:
Orwyn_Blackheart posted:
Ok, enough of your fucking retarded moronic rubbish
What does my race or citizenship have to do with anything?
You are the kind of imbecile who cannot argue a point based on the facts. You must include the persons' race to explain their point of view
Shut up you broken record
U mad bro? Only a coward is afraid to say where they come from. It appears you are a coward.
not a coward here but +1 of your stupid inbred racist stupidity 
keep going motherfucker !
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Tych2
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Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Where are you from?
-----signature-----
We have enough youth. What we need is a fountain of smart.
Drill Anwar!
Kapie
Drevid in Tanks
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Orwyn_Blackheart
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Subject:
Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Tych2 posted:
Orwyn_Blackheart posted:
Ok, enough of your fucking retarded moronic rubbish
What does my race or citizenship have to do with anything?
You are the kind of imbecile who cannot argue a point based on the facts. You must include the persons' race to explain their point of view
Shut up you broken record
U mad bro? Only a coward is afraid to say where they come from. It appears you are a coward.
Too late. Your anger is on display!
no anger, all i did was say the truth about you. go ahead talk the truth
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Orwyn_Blackheart
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Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Tych2 posted:
Where are you from?
racist !
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Tych2
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Subject:
Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Orwyn_Blackheart posted:
no anger,
Suuuuuurrre
Where are you from? Why are you scared to tell everyone? Afraid of being mocked? You do realize we are already mocking you right?
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Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Tych2 posted:
Orwyn_Blackheart posted:
no anger,
Suuuuuurrre
Where are you from? Why are you scared to tell everyone? Afraid of being mocked? You do realize we are already mocking you right?
afraid of an uneducated moron like you ?
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Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Orwyn_Blackheart posted:
afraid of an uneducated moron like you ?
Apparently!
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Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Tych2 posted:
Orwyn_Blackheart posted:
afraid of an uneducated moron like you ?
Apparently!
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Crooq_Lionfang posted:
Didn't know Sobaki rerolled...
You're still dreaming of me?
Sicko.
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Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Clackdor posted:
Yukishiro1 posted:
You need to hire a lawyer to figure out if you can require a high school diploma for a job application.
To me, "you can't use an arbitrary requirement of a high school diploma to weed out disabled people you don't want to hire because they're disabled" seems pretty clear.
Maybe you need a lawyer. But that seems like more of a personal problem.
It doesn't really seem that hard to understand. If you're hiring for a garbage collector and you demand your applicants show the ability to run a marathon in 5 hours you are going to be conveniently screening out pretty much anyone disabled. The law says you can't discriminate against disabled people in hiring simply because they're disabled. I don't think it takes a lawyer to see why arbitrary requirements that screen out disabled people can be a problem legally.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Maybe you need a lawyer. But that seems like more of a personal problem.
That's the point, fool. In any sane society it should be limited to a 'personal problem'. Not a matter of law and regulation.
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Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
That's the point, fool. In any sane society it should be limited to a 'personal problem'. Not a matter of law and regulation.
If you want to write to congress to demand they repeal Title VII and the ADEA go for it. I am not sure you are going to have so much luck convincing them that anyone who thinks you shouldn't be able to abritrarily discriminate against minorities and disabled people is a fool.
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Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Keep digging that hole.
There is no job in the US for which someone can claim completing high school is an irrelevancy.
None.
It is entirely dependent on the level of expertise and general functionality any particular employer requires of their employees, by particular position and even by particular year of hire. It is NOT able to fit into some one size fits all government definition. It is more typical bullshite government micromanagement.
Period.
There is no other rational position here.
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I saw this yesterday. My thought was that the stupid and/or lazy will now be a protected class.
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Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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How is having a high school diploma a business necessity for a janitor or a garbage collector?
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Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Yukishiro1 posted:
How is having a high school diploma a business necessity for a janitor or a garbage collector?
How is it universally not?
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What sort of argument is that? "Because its possible someone somewhere might need a garbage collector with a high school education anyone can require it for any position"? What sort of sense does that make?
They didn't say you can't require a high school diploma period. They said requiring a high school diploma with no good reason for it, when the result is to discriminate against disabled people, may get you into trouble under the ADEA.
If you don't agree with the basic idea we shouldn't be able to discriminate against disabled people in hiring that's one thing. I don't think you're going to win, but that's at least a coherent argument. Arguing that a high school diploma is always relevant in all jobs because it might possibly be relevant in some jobs is just dumb.
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Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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SoBaKi posted:
Crooq_Lionfang posted:
Didn't know Sobaki rerolled...
You're still dreaming of me?
Sicko.
Unfortunately yes. So far the anti-nightmare-therapy hasn't helped 
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That's your straw man. Not mine.
You cannot be in the mind of small businesses when they decide to ask for a high school diploma, and you cannot know why they would ask or should ask.
If an employer simply wants to ask on the fly if a particular person who simply appears disengaged, disinterested, lazy, of poor attitude, incapable of following conversation, etc can finish what they started well enough to complete schooling in a public-education country where they are LEGALLY FORCED to attend 10-11 years of that 12... they should damned well be able to ask.
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Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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So we're back to "we should be able to arbitrarily discriminate against disabled people if we feel like it."
Or maybe "there's a special high school diploma exception: you can arbitrarily discriminate against disabled people by asking for a high school diploma but not in other ways"?
Neither one seems to make a lot of sense.
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Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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There's a floor of competency, communication, comprehension, and basic ability to persevere in virtually any business where humans interact (read: ALL of them). It isn't up to the government to de-facto mandate that floor wasting millions/billions more in regulation and compliance cost in the process.
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But how does having a high school diploma reflect that?
We're going in circles because you refuse to take any real stand. You've bounced back and forth from "high school diplomas are always relevant!" to "no one shoudl be able to second guess employers making hiring decisions" to "maybe there's a special exception for diplomas that means you can arbitarily discriminate using them but not in other ways."
I think you continue to jump around because you realize none of these positions make a lot of sense.
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There's nothing inconsistent with my statements. There is a floor below which an employer choosing to grant you any job is charity. Failure to achieve a high school diploma, in today's America, is pretty close to that level where charity begins.
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Hmm, so now we can add a forth rationale: "You should be able to discriminate against disabled losers - but not disabled winners - using arbitrary criteria because they should be grateful for any job."
It seems pretty clear you have made up your mind based on some emotional objection and are casting around for a rationale. You've come up with four distinct justifications so far.
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Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Why are you still arguing? You have your task, after that I MIGHT listen to you:
Prove why achieving a H.S. diploma or G.E.D. isn't relevant for a janitor or garbage collector.
It isn't the government's job to decide where qualification ends and charity begins... although we are LETTING them make it their business to mandate everyone generating revenue and taxes become a charity for the other 50%.
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Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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A High School graduate should have a basic understanding of mathematics and working knowledge of the English language. Just like finishing a college degree is supposed to teach you critical thinking, problem solving and working in groups.
If a person is without a high school diploma/equivalent you're only hoping the potential employee can read and hand out the proper change.
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If somebody does not have a high school diploma as a result of not accommodating a recognized learning disability this is an issue between that individual and the school system for not getting one and should be settled between as a discrimination issue between the school and the individual not passed on as a responsibility for the rest of the world.
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Do you think nationwide that our school systems universally are able or willing to accommodate all such learning disabilities? And have in the past 30-40 years?
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Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
Prove why achieving a H.S. diploma or G.E.D. isn't relevant for a janitor or garbage collector.
That isn't how the law works. It's the burden of the perpson alleging business necessity to show why their selection criteria is a business necessity.
And there's a reason "relevant" isn't the standard. Almost anything can be "relevant" to almost any position. Having an MA in accounting probably helps you be a better fast food teller but it certainly wouldn't fly as a requirement being used to weed out disabled people and minorities.
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Shimatta33 posted:
If somebody does not have a high school diploma as a result of not accommodating a recognized learning disability this is an issue between that individual and the school system for not getting one and should be settled between as a discrimination issue between the school and the individual not passed on as a responsibility for the rest of the world.
This is a bit of an odd justification too. "If someone has gotten screwed in the past as a child because their school system or parent didn't do things right for them, everyone else should be given a pass on screwing them too."
I guess it is kinda a variation on AA's "it's ok to discriminate against disabled people as long as they are losers" rationale.
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When you don't get hired for any job you were discriminated against. You weren't the one they favored, to be more competitive a person should at least go through high school so discrimination can go their way.
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We decided a fairly long time ago that it's not ok for employers to discriminate based on certain characteristics, disability being one of them. 
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Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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They wouldn't be getting screwed by the people setting a legitimate bar of requiring a high school diploma. They'd be in a perpetual state of getting screwed by the school system for not accommodating their learning disability (which does not mean simply passing the student or bypassing standards, but providing for services such as reading questions to dyslexic children, a quiet environment for exams for students with ADHD, etc...). It all comes back to one problem between a student and the school system. Why should the rest of the world have to change their standards in order to accommodate an issue between two parties?
It's not as if once a person does not receive a high school diploma that they will not and can not ever have a high school diploma in their lives. It's not a one shot deal.
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Thug, i think you're the first person on the internet who's ever had the thought. "I can win the internet by suddenly changing the operational definition of the word at the center of an argument." I'm impressed by your innovation.
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Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Tych2 posted:
Orwyn_Blackheart posted:
Tych2 posted:
If you can't graduate HS I don't want you working for me. It shows me a lack of commitment.
Why dont you finish taking off that black underwear and i will work my long and hard commitment into you, you will be suitably impressed.
I have no idea what that even means, but I am not surprised you don't even have a HS diploma
I think he thinks that your icon is actually you.
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If we want to stretch things the way you seem to want to stretch things then JPL should be forced to hire people with electrical engineering degrees from an online degree mill because that student might have only been able to get into that college instead of MIT because of a learning disability and you can't look at the difference of credentials between the two schools because that's a possibility.
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I fail to see how a HS Diploma or lack thereof has any standing on whether a person "appears disengaged, disinterested, lazy, of poor attitude, incapable of following conversation, etc."
If you cannot figure that out without the High School Diploma question... should you really be making hiring decisions?
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Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Lyndrek posted:
Tych2 posted:
Orwyn_Blackheart posted:
Why dont you finish taking off that black underwear and i will work my long and hard commitment into you, you will be suitably impressed.
I have no idea what that even means, but I am not surprised you don't even have a HS diploma
I think he thinks that your icon is actually you.
oh god help me
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Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Remnant_OBrien posted:
I fail to see how a HS Diploma or lack thereof has any standing on whether a person "appears disengaged, disinterested, lazy, of poor attitude, incapable of following conversation, etc."
I agree with you 100% there. If somebody has those characteristics they aren't getting the job even if they have 20 doctorates.
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Shimatta33 posted:
They wouldn't be getting screwed by the people setting a legitimate bar of requiring a high school diploma.
If it's legitimate it's fine.
The problem comes when people start setting arbitrary standards which in effect rule out minorities and disabled people.
Contrary to AA's unsupported assertion, there are plenty of jobs for which a high school diploma really ISN'T required or even remotely related. Construction, cleaning, collection being obvious exmaples.
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Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Shimatta33 posted:
If we want to stretch things the way you seem to want to stretch things then JPL should be forced to hire people with electrical engineering degrees from an online degree mill because that student might have only been able to get into that college instead of MIT because of a learning disability and you can't look at the difference of credentials between the two schools because that's a possibility.
That comparison doesn't work.
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Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Remnant_OBrien posted:
Shimatta33 posted:
If we want to stretch things the way you seem to want to stretch things then JPL should be forced to hire people with electrical engineering degrees from an online degree mill because that student might have only been able to get into that college instead of MIT because of a learning disability and you can't look at the difference of credentials between the two schools because that's a possibility.
That comparison doesn't work.
because............
What's different from having a set employment standard for an education level and somebody not meeting it vs. having a set employment standard for an education level and somebody not meeting it?
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Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Shimatta33 posted:
They wouldn't be getting screwed by the people setting a legitimate bar of requiring a high school diploma.
If it's legitimate it's fine.
I think it's well within a company's right to determine the education level required for their employees regardless of the position as long as it's uniform and consistent. It's their business and their determination.
Yukishiro1 posted:
The problem comes when people start setting arbitrary standards which in effect rule out minorities and disabled people.
Absolutely agree. I don't see a high school diploma as one of them unless you're only asking for one from particular applicants.
Yukishiro1 posted:
Contrary to AA's unsupported assertion, there are plenty of jobs for which a high school diploma really ISN'T required or even remotely related. Construction, cleaning, collection being obvious exmaples.
I can't agree with you there. For many employers a high school diploma (even a university one often times) is often viewed as more of a reflection on your ability to follow through with commitments and complete tasks rather than how much you actually know about something. If an employer decides that a high school diploma is a benchmark then they should be allowed to set it as a benchmark as long as they do so consistently.
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because questioning the necessity of high school diploma requirements doesn't equate to being forced to treat all graduate programs and advanced degrees as equal.
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Shimatta33 posted:
I can't agree with you there. For many employers a high school diploma (even a university one often times) is often viewed as more of a reflection on your ability to follow through with commitments and complete tasks rather than how much you actually know about something. If an employer decides that a high school diploma is a benchmark then they should be allowed to set it as a benchmark as long as they do so consistently.
So is this the "special exception" rationale? What if they wanted to require a B.A. for their garbage collectors? What about an MA? A PhD? Is all of that fine, when you know the result of that is going to be a bunch of disabled and minority people who could do the job perfectly well being screened out of the job?
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Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Remnant_OBrien posted:
because questioning the necessity of high school diploma requirements doesn't equate to being forced to treat all graduate programs and advanced degrees as equal.
You can question the necessity of all degrees and diplomas from high school ones to graduate ones with respect to the specific tasks a role entails so I fail to see the difference.
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Shimatta33 posted:
I can't agree with you there. For many employers a high school diploma (even a university one often times) is often viewed as more of a reflection on your ability to follow through with commitments and complete tasks rather than how much you actually know about something. If an employer decides that a high school diploma is a benchmark then they should be allowed to set it as a benchmark as long as they do so consistently.
So is this the "special exception" rationale? What if they wanted to require a B.A. for their garbage collectors? What about an MA? A PhD? Is all of that fine, when you know the result of that is going to be a bunch of disabled and minority people who could do the job perfectly well being screened out of the job?
Yep, that'd be just fine for me. If that's the benchmark that they believe that they need for their business to be successful then so be it as long as they are consistent in their hiring policies with it. They just can't say that so-and-so would require a PhD but the average white-guy with a high school diploma is ok. Good luck for them finding people with a BA, MA, or PhD that will accept the position. There's a reason why low income jobs usually only require a high school diploma if anything at all and it's not because of worrying about discrimination.
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I think your analogy shows you may be misunderstanding the issue, Shim. The EEOC didn't say you can't consider a high school diploma a plus in a hiring decision (assuming there is some reasonable basis for considering it a plus - probably not hard to do for any reasonably long-term job on the basis that it shows commitment and reliability). It just said you can't make it an absolute bar unless there is a defensible business nececssity for doing so.
The correct analogy would be a job posting which read "only those with an Ivy League degree will be considered."
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I am still not hiring someone who doesn't have a HS diploma.
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Yukishiro1 posted:
I think your analogy shows you may be misunderstanding the issue, Shim. The EEOC didn't say you can't consider a high school diploma a plus in a hiring decision (assuming there is some reasonable basis for considering it a plus - probably not hard to do for any reasonably long-term job on the basis that it shows commitment and reliability). It just said you can't make it an absolute bar unless there is a defensible business nececssity for doing so.
The correct analogy would be a job posting which read "only those with an Ivy League degree will be considered."
You're right, I only glanced at the piece and this thread as I am working. I missed the "defensible business necessity" part. If that's the case then this is really a complete and total non-issue. The letter has no teeth in the first place. Commitment and reliability alone would be a directly relate to pretty much any position a company would be hiring for so I don't see how this would get enforced even if it were implemented as an actual law unless it was a situation such as the one that I described before where only some people are required to have a high school degree. I'd love to see a committee try and determine which positions "legitimately" require a high school diploma instead of ones that don't.
I maintain my position that if a company decides to set an education level benchmark based upon their business needs (perceived or actual) that is something that shouldn't be taken away from them from the graduate level down to the high school/GED level as long as they are consistent. If a fast food restaurant believes as part as their strategy they will only be successful if they hire MBAs and they set that as their standard then they're entitled to do so. It doesn't sound like you completely disagree.
As a side note, there's a real problem in this country with people discriminating against those with a GED instead of a high school diploma as though it's a lesser achievement. That's an example of a truly equivalent diploma that employers will often unfairly overlook in favor of a high school diploma.
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Orwyn_Blackheart posted:
Bobvillas posted:
Orwyn_Blackheart posted:
[quote=Bobvillas]I give Orwyn another month before he has himself so worked up into a lather that he gets banned completely.
What a train wreck.
you should train wreck your face........ right into my crotch...........
a/s/l?
Are you Shia or Sunni? I want to make sure I dress appropriately.
Wow not content with proving earlier that you were racist, you continue again
Congratulations on being a backward human being, I bet your only this brave on the Outpost ![/quote]
So should I bring the box cutter or the bomb vest?
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Yukishiro1 posted:
there are plenty of jobs for which a high school diploma really ISN'T required or even remotely related. Construction, cleaning, collection being obvious exmaples.
You have yet to prove that. And if you can't prove it, there sure as hell needn't be a law for it.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
Yukishiro1 posted:
there are plenty of jobs for which a high school diploma really ISN'T required or even remotely related. Construction, cleaning, collection being obvious exmaples.
You have yet to prove that. And if you can't prove it, there sure as hell needn't be a law for it.
What is there to prove? And how would you expect someone to prove the negative?
The law is set up the way it is for a reason. It's the employer's job to justify why he thinks something is business necessity, not the employee's job to somehow disprove all possibilities.
An average janitor's job duties don't involve anything remotely requiring a diploma. You don't need a diploma to brush junk into a garbage can. They don't teach you anything in high school about that.
If the point is a high school diploma could be considered a plus - sure, it might be. But a REQUIREMENT? Of course not.
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We'll have to hire a lawyer to look over our job wanted ads.
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Only if you really want to support the lawyer.
Just look at your want ads and see if the requirements you are posting really have a connection to the job. Go down the list of the requirements and spell out a justification for each. If you can't come up with something that passes a basic sniff test that's a clue you might want to get a lawyer but otherwise I wouldn't waste your money.
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Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
Yukishiro1 posted:
there are plenty of jobs for which a high school diploma really ISN'T required or even remotely related. Construction, cleaning, collection being obvious exmaples.
You have yet to prove that. And if you can't prove it, there sure as hell needn't be a law for it.
What is there to prove? And how would you expect someone to prove the negative?
WHERE did you study law and logic? Bloat? Figures.
The DEFAULT position of any sane employer is to ask about qualifications, work ethic and education. You are the one who needs to prove the positive... that it is necessary and valid to expend time, effort, and money to PREVENT that default action for certain jobs as regards (specifically) a high school diploma.
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Yukishiro1 posted:
We decided a fairly long time ago that it's not ok for employers to discriminate based on certain characteristics, disability being one of them.
The problem Yuk is you are asking humans without the base background in a business to take control of who is hired over someone who has this background.
If someone is a good worker I should have the right to promote them over someone who has been there longer. If I feel my garbage truck driver should have the capability of advancement or I would not waste my time training them; that should be my choice. It should not be the choice of a government official with no understanding of my requirements or future goals.
People discriminate all the time. We use to call that a judgment call. You need to think instead of doing the liberal reaction to what you see as an injustice. Freedom is ugly sometimes but it is far better than slavery.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
The DEFAULT position of any sane employer is to ask about qualifications, work ethic and education.
No one's saying you arn't allowed to ask. But they are saying that the law says that you can't use an arbitrary requirement to screen out disabled people. And the law is set up to put the burden of explaining why your requirement isn't arbitrary on the employer...you know, the one who knows why they made it a requirement in the first place?
If you view a high school diploma as a positive for a job applicant no one's picking a bone with you. If you throw anyone without a diploma in the trash and you can't articulate a good reason why, and the effect of that is that you're discriminating against disabled people, the law does have a problem with it.
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Fist_de_Yuma posted:
If someone is a good worker I should have the right to promote them over someone who has been there longer. If I feel my garbage truck driver should have the capability of advancement or I would not waste my time training them; that should be my choice. It should not be the choice of a government official with no understanding of my requirements or future goals.
And no one's trying to take those choices away from you.
Your examples are silly because they have nothing to do with the issue.
What about this one:
Do you also think you should be able to choose not to hire a disabled person, even though they're perfectly qualified for the job, simply because you don't want to hire a disabled person?
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Nothing relevant.
In order to even get off home plate, you must prove a High School diploma is, in fact, an invalid requirement to ask for or use in screening *any* job. Any job at all.
We're still waiting. We'll wait a long time because your position is unprovable and unknowable. Therefore, it has no business existing in law. None whatsoever.
It is forced charity. And nothing more.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
Yes, that's actually what he is saying. And he believes it makes sense. He's a member of the Goldfish Consortium... it is useless arguing with that kind of counterproductive illogical nanny-dom.
I listened to you, but you evidently didn't listen to you.
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Would be great if I didnt have to spend 60+ grand to get a college degree that doesn't guarantee me a job :/ QQ.
But everyone should be 100% required to get a high school diploma or equivalent.
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Clackdor posted:
Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
Yuki's a member of the Goldfish Consortium... it is useless arguing with that kind of counterproductive illogical nanny-dom.
I listened to you, but you evidently didn't listen to you.
Oh I'm not arguing with him. 
I get my jollies by poking at the worm sizzling on the sidewalk until it just stops moving, is all.
I'm essentially just repeating the first relevant question over and over again.
Yuki won't answer. He can't. So there's no need to 'argue'.
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A lot of this, I suspect, is coming around now due to NCLB and shrinking state budgets.
NCLB = standardized grad requirements = more Special Ed students walking away without a diploma.
State budgets = fewer handouts for the disabled
Put them together and you probably have yet another disturbing trend in the job market - more disabled people looking for work with no diploma.
The thing is, although this is likely a problem on the rise, this isn't really anything new. HR departments aren't (or shouldn't be) scrambling to suddenly justify every diploma-less applicant they turned away. An HR person should be capable of articulating the reasons basing a job hire on diploma status a hell of a lot better than AA's "Tell my why I shouldn't" (which, by the way, probably would be rather dumb to try in the context of a discrimination lawsuit). In fact I doubt this is new to anyone who hires en mass at the general level of pr0n-shop jizzmopper. EEOC's recommendations are typically built from court precedent, since the court has to spend so much time defining the obnoxiously vague wording of Title VII and ADA.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
I'm essentially just repeating the first relevant question over and over again.
Yuki won't answer. He can't. So there's no need to 'argue'.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
In order to even get off home plate, you must prove a High School diploma is, in fact, an invalid requirement to ask for or use in screening *any* job. Any job at all.
What on earth are you on about now? Because having a high school diploma is relevant for some jobs employers should be able to require it for all jobs? Is that a serious argument?
That's about like saying "because strippers need to be female I will refuse to accept applicants from any male nurses!"
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Yukishiro1 posted:
What on earth are you on about now?
The same question I've been waiting for you to answer for about, oh, 30 replies now...
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Doesn't the AWA also cover college entrance? I wonder how long it will be before colleges are required to take people with learning disabilities? Soon we will be so politically correct that we will have illiterate doctors and scientists.
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Uh, at first you were asking me to prove why you don't need a high school diploma to be a janitor. I explained that isn't how the law works but that it is pretty self-evident that you don't need a high school diploma to be an effective janitor.
Unless I was misunderstanding, your last post was the first time you claimed I had to prove a high school diploma is completely irrelevant to every job in the world.
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Bonzoboy1 posted:
Doesn't the AWA also cover college entrance? I wonder how long it will be before colleges are required to take people with learning disabilities? Soon we will be so politically correct that we will have illiterate doctors and scientists.
Good lord. This is just rank ignorance.
The ADEA doesn't require you to hire anyone who can't do the job. The whole point is that you can't discriminate against someone who's disabled but who can do the job fine despite that disability.
If you're hiring a linebacker and the guy is in a wheelchair nothing in the ADEA requires you to ignore the fact he can't walk much less run or tackle.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
Why are you still arguing? You have your task, after that I MIGHT listen to you:
Prove why achieving a H.S. diploma or G.E.D. isn't relevant for a janitor or garbage collector.
It isn't the government's job to decide where qualification ends and charity begins... although we are LETTING them make it their business to mandate everyone generating revenue and taxes become a charity for the other 50%.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
My position is valid until you can prove a negative!
I'm guessing you slept in during your employment law courses. And logic courses, for that matter.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
Prove why achieving a H.S. diploma or G.E.D. isn't relevant for a janitor or garbage collector.
So is it prove a janitor doesn't need a H.S. diploma or prove no job in the world needs a h.s. diploma?
You've said both now in the last 5 posts.
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tenkly
Title: Best looking Outposter.
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Subject:
Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
Prove why achieving a H.S. diploma or G.E.D. isn't relevant for a janitor or garbage collector.
Unhh.. because every school I've ever been to had retards as janitors ? Ask me how many of those retards has a HS diploma.
Unhh.. because garbage collection hire criminals, and a lot of them don't have a H.S diploma ( if you were to check you could see for yourself). and they're doing a great job picking up my garbage.
what do I win ?
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"Sir, when you die, what shall we do? Bury you? Burn you?" "Nay. I shall be mushroomed"
"You're a weird dude, Tenkly. Knife fights with women and you dress your cat up in sweater vests."- ZigmundZag
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
Title: Retired Theurgist TL
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Subject:
Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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Bzzzzzt.
I didn't say "prove that some employers are charitable and/or stupid enough to hire certain professions without a high school diploma from time-to-time."
Re-read and try again.
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tenkly
Title: Best looking Outposter.
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Subject:
Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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If a retard can do a job at 100% efficiency, then it's clear that no prior education is needed to do said job.
#truthhurts
-----signature-----
"Sir, when you die, what shall we do? Bury you? Burn you?" "Nay. I shall be mushroomed"
"You're a weird dude, Tenkly. Knife fights with women and you dress your cat up in sweater vests."- ZigmundZag
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Yukishiro1
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Subject:
Good news to you Outposters..HS Diploma req. to be illegal...
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I have known several janitors who didn't have a high school diploma who did janitorial work just fine. As far as I know there were never any complaints about them.
I'm not sure what exactly you want. Expert witness testimony from a vocational counselor?
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