Seething199
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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Why should i not convince everyone I know to vote for Ron Paul? What about the last 12+ years of terrible, failed policy and the next 4-8 years that we're guaranteed with Ron Paul's opponents make it worth not voting for him?
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Z-Elder
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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For one, He will not be on the ballot otherwise I would.
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reesescups
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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Z-Elder posted:
For one, He will not be on the ballot otherwise I would.
Where do you live, why will he not be on a ballot? And if he's not on the ballot why can't you write him in?
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Ptilk
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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I wouldn't vote for him because:
He wants to destroy social security and medicare
He wants to outlaw abortions
He believes that states have the right to oppress their citizens for any reason including religious, gender, race, and political association membership. If a state wants to oppress you, the constitution gives them that right, according to him
He believes that the "free market" ends up helping everyone if government gets out of the way.
In short, he is the wet dream of the far right "conservative" movement that wants the government to let corporations and the wealthy decide everything because they "earned that right" be being "successful".
The only reason most people support the nut bag is he wants to end the federal war on drugs (although he certainly supports state based wars on drugs) and he wants to stop all these stupid wars that "conservatives" want to keep going on forever.
While I certainly am in favor of stopping all the stupid wars, including the one on drugs, his other idea (of which the above are simply the tip of the iceberg) are crazy, and would destroy what little is left of this country and hand it wholesale to the evil shits who were in total power during the Bush years.
Just because what we have sucks....it doesn't mean that giving some radical idiot a shot would make things better. Work to change things, don't burn it all down because you are pissed off. Grow up.
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Seething199
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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after the obama fiasco, i'm not convinced there's a viable alternative to burning it all down. the current trajectory of the country is directly into the ground. and no one else running for president has any interest at all in changing it. just ignoring it for another 4-8 years and hoping it's still possible to be fixed by whatever guy gets stuck with it.
the abortion stance and the archaic concept of stronger states rights bothers me. staying on the current course and hopping into another pointless war with iran bothers me more.
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reesescups
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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Seething199 posted:
the abortion stance and the archaic concept of stronger states rights bothers me. staying on the current course and hopping into another pointless war with iran bothers me more.
Agreed - I am personally Pro-Life anyway, but from a policy stand point I am pro-choice. I can give on this without too much of an issue. States rights, again I am for less centralized/Federal power - if that means states pick up the slack - I can give on this without too much of an issue.
All of these things are meaningless though if we continue on our current trajectory. If we don't focus on the bigger major issues and pull our head out of our ass soon (as a country), we will get to figure out all these smaller issues as an administrative district of Russia, China, Japan, or as some form of lord of the flies...
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GrilledCheez
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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Our current crop of politicians suck. But picking the guy who is obviously stupid over the guys you think might screw you is not a good move.
The trajectory of the country is what it is because of stupid gov't moves, but ripping the welfare rug out from under the country and destroying gov't jobs is the exact wrong move right now. Exact wrong move.
Is obama stupid and corrupt? Yes. but the best move for us right now is to try and stabilize as much as possible with more gov't spending while we try to turn around the jobs situation through policy that favors local labor over foreign labor.
once the free market favors american workers again, then you can elect a nut who wants to destroy the feral gov't.
When your boat's sinking bailing with thimbles may not help, but seeing that fail is no reason to make the hole bigger in hopes a change in strategy is right regardless of what it is.
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Aerlinthian
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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Ptilk posted:
I wouldn't vote for him because:
Ptilk posted:
He wants to destroy social security and medicare
Wrong, he wants the American people empowered with options.
Ptilk posted:
He wants to outlaw abortions
Wrong, he wants the constitution obeyed and the issue placed back in the hands of the respective states.
Ptilk posted:
He believes that states have the right to oppress their citizens for any reason including religious, gender, race, and political association membership. If a state wants to oppress you, the constitution gives them that right, according to him.
You're lying or confused as what you stated is the antitheses and wild distortion of what he wants.
Ptilk posted:
He believes that the "free market" ends up helping everyone if government gets out of the way.
Oh my, you finally got one right. Yes, regulations are too often used to enable corporatism, cronyism and fascism. Where people like you get confused (willfully..or not) is that deregulation does not mean that you wipe out criminal laws against fraud, theft, collusion, racketeering, monopolizing, etc. It also doesn't mean that you have to necessarily wipe out safety regulations. But this is typically what people like yourself like to claim to bogyman/demagogue this particular debate.
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Modeeb
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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Obama betrayed his progressive base. At least, ideologically he mouths the direction which matches an informed point of view. Paul is ideologically bent backwards. Thus, he is a conservative. The bottomline: All politicians hypnotize with their words. When it comes time to doing something substantial, you get fugatz.
I may do a protest vote for a wildly progressive candidate against Obama or waste my vote. But am I really wasting a vote , when it doesnt matter?
I can guarantee you Ron Paul will disappoint you, the same way Obama disappointed me. He wont get shite changed, even if the way he wants to change things is back in time.
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Ptilk
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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Oh, I agree that Obama has been a bust. The man is a political coward and ideologically much closer to the neo-con side than the liberal one.
I'd love for a real liberal to run for president....but that doesn't mean I'm going to vote for a "conservative" nut bag because one isn't.
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AzureTyger
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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Voting for Ron Paul would be like replacing your inept brain cancer physician with one who's revolutionary treatment plan is to remove the tumor by cutting off your head.
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Modeeb
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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In general, conservatism doesnt make much sense to me.
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Aerlinthian
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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Ptilk posted:
I'd love for a real liberal to run for president...
A "real" liberal is running for president. What you want is a leftist authoritarian AKA a contemporary capital-L Liberal which are barely any different than the neoconservatives who dominate both sides of the aisle. As a matter of fact, it can be clearly demonstrated that the neoconservatives have moved much further left in at least the last decade to appease big government spending, big government military interventionism, big government welfare, big government corporatism and big government socialism & fascism.
A "real" liberal or a "real" conservative would not be in support of those dynamics. Only people whose mouths are firmed affixed to the teat of government are for those.
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Sinlock
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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Aerlinthian posted:
Ptilk posted:
He wants to outlaw abortions
Wrong, he wants the constitution obeyed and the issue placed back in the hands of the respective states.
No - he wants to outlaw abortions. This whole entire 'states rights' is just a bullshit cloak for 'we'll talk what states we can into making it illegal'. 'State rights' are abused nonsense.
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Seething199
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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i don't buy the doom and gloom about electing ron paul. we were all convinced of various things when we elected obama. he's delivered none of those things. he's delivered the exact opposite of quite a few of them. i don't think our corrupt and terrible congress would allow ron paul to implement even a fraction of what he wants. but it's worth it to have a president who at least publicly speaks as though he's not a clone of all the others.
obama killed any hope i could possibly have that things can be fixed through "the system." i'm ready to burn it down.
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Sinlock
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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I would say that Ron Paul is the best the Republicans have - but the fact he's still a social conservative would stop me from voting for him.
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reesescups
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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Sinlock posted:
Aerlinthian posted:
Ptilk posted:
He wants to outlaw abortions
Wrong, he wants the constitution obeyed and the issue placed back in the hands of the respective states.
No - he wants to outlaw abortions. This whole entire 'states rights' is just a bullshit cloak for 'we'll talk what states we can into making it illegal'. 'State rights' are abused nonsense.
Ron Paul is point blank Pro-Life. But lets not muddy the waters.
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/abortion/
As an OB/GYN who delivered over 4,000 babies, Ron Paul knows firsthand how precious, fragile, and in need of protection life is.
Dr. Paul’s experience in science and medicine only reinforced his belief that life begins at conception, and he believes it would be inconsistent for him to champion personal liberty and a free society if he didn’t also advocate respecting the God-given right to life—for those born and unborn.
After being forced to witness an abortion being performed during his time in medical school, he knew from that moment on that his practice would focus on protecting life. And during his years in medicine, never once did he find an abortion necessary to save the life of a pregnant woman.
As a physician, Ron Paul consistently put his beliefs into practice and saved lives by helping women seek options other than abortion, including adoption. And as President, Ron Paul will continue to fight for the same pro-life solutions he has upheld in Congress, including:
* Immediately saving lives by effectively repealing Roe v. Wade and preventing activist judges from interfering with state decisions on life by removing abortion from federal court jurisdiction through legislation modeled after his “We the People Act.â€
* Defining life as beginning at conception by passing a “Sanctity of Life Act.â€
Because he agrees with Thomas Jefferson that it is “sinful and tyrannical†to “compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors,†Ron Paul will also protect the American people’s freedom of conscience by working to prohibit taxpayer funds from being used for abortions, Planned Parenthood, or any other so-called “family planning†program.
The strength of love for liberty in our society can be judged by how we treat the most innocent among us. It’s time to elect a President with the courage and conviction to stand up for every American’s right to life.
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Seething199
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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that's the part i struggle with most as well. but obama isn't doing anything to promote sane social issues. aside the repeal of dadt i guess. but he's still a spineless pussy in general.
there is no right candidate. there is only a flawed candidate and a parade of fucking terrible candidates.
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Sinlock
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Seething199 posted:
but obama isn't doing anything to promote sane social issues. aside the repeal of dadt i guess.
He's not doing anything to attack them either - Republicans would be pushing additional social conservative issues. Obama, even at his worst, is not pushing for further social conservative legislation.
But, as you said, he did orchestrate the repeal of DADT. This actually was a very strong step forwards. It would not have happened under a Republican president.
Though I do absolutely agree he has been weak on repealing social conservative nonsense. He should have done more by now than the repeal of DADT. I want to hear him come out in support of legalizing same-sex marriage. It bothers me that he's so damned timid about doing so.
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Eager_Igraine
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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Ptilk posted:
I wouldn't vote for him because:
He wants to destroy social security and medicare
He wants to outlaw abortions
He believes that states have the right to oppress their citizens for any reason including religious, gender, race, and political association membership. If a state wants to oppress you, the constitution gives them that right, according to him
He believes that the "free market" ends up helping everyone if government gets out of the way.
In short, he is the wet dream of the far right "conservative" movement that wants the government to let corporations and the wealthy decide everything because they "earned that right" be being "successful".
The only reason most people support the nut bag is he wants to end the federal war on drugs (although he certainly supports state based wars on drugs) and he wants to stop all these stupid wars that "conservatives" want to keep going on forever.
While I certainly am in favor of stopping all the stupid wars, including the one on drugs, his other idea (of which the above are simply the tip of the iceberg) are crazy, and would destroy what little is left of this country and hand it wholesale to the evil shits who were in total power during the Bush years.
Just because what we have sucks....it doesn't mean that giving some radical idiot a shot would make things better. Work to change things, don't burn it all down because you are pissed off. Grow up.
Sounds persuasive.
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Azure-TheBlueOne
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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Sinlock posted:
but the fact he's still a social conservative would stop me from voting for him.
You've said this a couple times now, but, in what way would Ron Paul 'vote' like a social conservative?
I've been under the impression that he doesn't believe the government should be entangled in a number of these issues differing quite a bit from a 'social conservative'.
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eodoll
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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Legalized Drugs and isolationist foreign polcy are not high enough in my want list to vote for or outweigh a persons negatives.
Edit: he also had a newsletter that published very racist and derogatory things. It may not been from his mouth directly but its bad - stuff like the la riots will end as soon as they pick up their welfare checks.
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paulg_68
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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Modeeb posted:
I can guarantee you Ron Paul will disappoint you, the same way Obama disappointed me. He wont get shite changed, even if the way he wants to change things is back in time.
I guaranteed you that Obama would disappoint and I was right and you were wrong. Obama got his shot anyways.
We know Obama is going to suck if he gets a 2nd term. It's time for Ron Paul to get a shot. You're not always right.
Ron Paul is more liberal than Obama. He's just less socialist.
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Ptilk
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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Abolishing Social Security and medicare?
Repealing HCR act?
Destroying the VA health care system?
Empowering church based education while dismantling the Dept of Education?
Removing all environmental regulations?
Removing all financial regulations?
Giving all the power to corporations and local government and removing all protections for individuals gained in the past 200 years?
You call that liberal?
You are an idiot.
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__Bonk__
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I'd rather have Obama. At least Obama is strong on foreign policy and defense
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Seething199
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non-thinking moron gives non-thinking rationale for the status quo.
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__Bonk__
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I side with Ptilk on this. He seems very well informed for an Outposter
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Sinlock
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paulg_68 posted:
I guaranteed you that Obama would disappoint and I was right and you were wrong.
All president's disappoint; it's to the degree that's in question. I don't regret voting for Obama one bit. I will be voting for him again next time around and I won't regret that either.
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Ptilk
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Obama has been a typical Democratic President. Forgettable for the most part. I'll take that any day over another shit like Shrub or Reagan. They actively destroy our country which is a hell of a lot worse than not helping it enough...which is what Obama is guilty of.
Paul wants to destroy our country. Literally. He wants us to become a loosely connected mob of independent fiefdoms who bicker and struggle with each other while oppressing the shit out of their citizens in order to let "real people" (corporations, rich, well connected, and others that meet his criteria for "worthwhile") take total control.
It's the Ayn Rand vision of heaven. The average person shuts the hell up and lets the "do'ers" make the decisions because they earned it by having more money than you. And screw that helping your fellow man and making the country as a whole a better place. The only role government should serve in his mind is to keep out of the damn way and let the "do'ers" do their thing.
No minimum wage
No work place safety rules
No Social Security
No health care for kids
No health care for injured veterans
No environmental regulations
No food safety regulations
No limits on religious intrusion into government
No protection for the weak from the powerful
Let everyone take care of themselves and screw the ones that cant, even if they are children or disabled or black or gay or female or poor or uneducated or whatever. It's not our problem, corporations will solve all those problems if we just let them.
You would have to be a complete idiot to support that kind of philosophy. But then....this is the US so I suspect the man will get a lot of support.
I don't think that most of the people who support the nut bag at this time have really thought about what his philosophy would mean if it was enacted. Once they do.....his numbers will drop back to nut bag status where they belong.
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Aerlinthian
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LOL, talk about bringing full force hyperbolic CRAZY. 
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__Bonk__
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Ptilk is correct. Ron Paul wants to cut too much.
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Modeeb
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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Ptilk is a bulldog on this issue. Nobody has come close to a reasoned rebuttal.
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Huges07.1
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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I'm voting for Ron Paul because he is going to quit giving OUR GOTDAMMN MONEY TO EVERY OTHER CUNTRY ON THE EFFING PLANET WHILE WE ARE SINKING IN DEBT FFS.
And Obama wants to up our borrowing limit another 1.2 trillion dollars now. Haha. Hahahaha. Hah. Ha.....
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Tych2
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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Huges07.1 posted:
I'm voting for Ron Paul because he is going to quit giving OUR GOTDAMMN MONEY TO EVERY OTHER CUNTRY ON THE EFFING PLANET WHILE WE ARE SINKING IN DEBT FFS.
And Obama wants to up our borrowing limit another 1.2 trillion dollars now. Haha. Hahahaha. Hah. Ha.....
Seems like an okay reason to me.
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Aerlinthian
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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Modeeb posted:
Ptilk is a bulldog on this issue. Nobody has come close to a reasoned rebuttal.
You can't give a "reasoned rebuttal" to a wild eyed emotional rant that is mostly devoid of facts.
Protip; the national government is and has been wildly ignoring the constitution for decades, this is the root of our problems. Removing unconstitutional national government agencies doesn't mean that you therefor must have no regulation, what it means is that it is put back where it is supposed to be, in the hands of the states.
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Seething199
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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more power to the states is stupid. it just allows some states to be responsible and some to totally fuck everyone. which will happen. this is the biggest weakness in the ron paul platform. it's no longer 1776. you can't go from interconnected globalization to everyone does whatever the crap they want.
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Huges07.1
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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Seething199 posted:
more power to the states is stupid. it just allows some states to be responsible and some to totally fuck everyone. which will happen. this is the biggest weakness in the ron paul platform. it's no longer 1776. you can't go from interconnected globalization to everyone does whatever the crap they want.
Bullshit.
You can allow any state to do that, yet spare every state from being forced to do it. People aren't going to move out of the US or quit doing business with it, but you can bet your fat ass that won't be the case when it comes to individual states. It'll straighten itself out in short order.
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Seething199
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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orly? if every state controls its own environmental regulations, education, drug enforcement, abuse of the gays, etc, you really think it'll just sort itself out? or will crapholes like alabama stop the book lernin' at 8th grade, dump raw sewage into rivers because it's cheaper, and have every 3rd friday be a gay bash ho-down?
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Huges07.1
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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That's absurd and you know it. Grats on your IGNORE!
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Seething199
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not sure why you guys have more faith in the individual states to do what's right than the federal government to do what's right.
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Aerlinthian
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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Seething199 posted:
not sure why you guys have more faith in the individual states to do what's right than the federal government to do what's right.
Because I can move from state to state if they do stuff I hate. Moving out of the country however is much more difficult. Also, politicians at the state level are inherently more accessible and more vulnerable to electorate discontent.
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__Bonk__
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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My state is in a mess financially as bad as the federal government. THings are a mess at this level too.
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Huges07.1
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Ok, I'll take you off ignore to say this:
No, Alabama or any other state will not be doing anything of the sort. I think the wildest bit of "crazy" you'd see is in places like Arizona with immigration laws and California with whatever batshite crazy ideas they'd concoct. You'd likely see a wide variety of different laws from state to state on gay rights, and even then it'd be over marriage and PC crap that shouldn't even be an issue.
Education would be a great point of interest for me though. All kidding aside, sir, such as the 8th grade book lernin stuff, I think we would be able to sort out in a much quicker fashion what works and what doesn't. We could have 50 different models to study (not likely, but I'm sure you're following along with what I am getting at) and after that I would think that the more successful states would have other states paying attention and probably making changes for the better.
I think giving more power to the states is not only a good thing for the states and the people but it's also in keeping with the Constitution and getting back on track to restoring the country as the greatest on Earth. The further we stray from the Constitution, the further we keep falling behind. Resentment and /outrage against the federal government hasn't been growing for no reason.
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Seething199
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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Aerlinthian posted:
Seething199 posted:
not sure why you guys have more faith in the individual states to do what's right than the federal government to do what's right.
Because I can move from state to state if they do stuff I hate. Moving out of the country however is much more difficult. Also, politicians at the state level are inherently more accessible and more vulnerable to electorate discontent.
that may be true. but citizens of a state are more prone to being on the wrong side of sanity in some cases. if states always had more power than the fed, there would still be segregation in the south. and arizona would probably be shooting brown people in the home depot parking lot.
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Aerlinthian
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I see no rational justification for immediately jumping to worst cast scenarios.
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Seething199
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don't you do that hourly with regard to the federal government?
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Huges07.1
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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Seething199 posted:
don't you do that hourly with regard to the federal government?
Haven't they given us all reason to do so?
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Ptilk
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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Federal protections evolved for a reason. Because states full of shit bags will vote to treat everyone who isn't a shit bag exactly like them.....like shit.
Jim Crow laws
Anti-miscegenation laws
Gender inequality legislated by many, many states
Child labor practices mandated by states who supported a SC ruling that overturned federal law banning it
Anti-choice laws passed in many states
Anti-gay legislation that criminalizes the private sexual conduct of adults in their own homes
Anti-non white laws passed against immigrants and minorities in almost every state
Religious conduct laws
Racial profiling, gender profiling, poll taxes, eugenics, english only laws.........
The list is endless. A non-stop litany of the tyranny of the majority (or the most well funded) over everyone else. Without comprehensive federal legislation to limit such practices by states full of idiots (most of the south and Texas and Utah in particular) huge portions of the US citizenry would be legally mandated to second class (or 3rd or 4th class) status.
Our country (not individual states) is a much better place because the Federal government stepped in and forced the issue that all are equal. The Federal government fails to be completely effective and very very slow to adopt such rules and limits....but if left to the states, many would NEVER do so.
We are US citizens first and foremost, not citizens of Texas or Florida or wherever. You need no permit to travel, visit, or move permanently among the various states. That would not be true for many people if the Federal government had not stepped in and forced the issue. Wanting to go back to the "good old days" when states had the right to oppress the shit out of anyone the idiots in that state didn't like....is one of the most abhorrent and delusional dreams of the "libertarian". They are nuts. Just like Ron Paul.
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Aerlinthian
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Yeah, lets all dive into Piltk's time machine where we will travel instantly back in time to only the worst periods.
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Ptilk
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They are ALL the worst periods.
Our country today isn't perfect by any stretch, but it's a hell of a lot better in many ways than it was. The "good old days" were full of oppression and abuse of a large portion of the population. There were no "good old days" for most people.
The advances we have seen have all been 4 steps forward, 3 steps back....but you still get a step forward that way. Letting individual states decide how to treat their minorities and others that the people in power find objectionable is not a step forward...it's going back to the "bad old days". No one except luddites, idiots, conspiracy theory nut cases, racists, misogynists, homophobes, old out of touch white guys, "libertarians" (AKA conspiracy theory luddites), and militia members want to take the US back to a time when it was perfectly legal to treat those different from the perceived norm like crap.
Giving more power to corporations is not the answer to the fact that the current federal government is useless. It's like supporting Stalin because you think the Tzars were mean.
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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Aerlinthian posted:
Yeah, lets all dive into Piltk's time machine where we will travel instantly back in time to only the worst periods.
http://www.aclu.org/blog/immigrants-rights-racial-justice/one-family-alabama-anti-immigrant-law-fate-worse-possible
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_laws_in_the_United_States#State_laws_prior_to_2003
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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Huges07.1 posted:
I'm voting for Ron Paul because he is going to quit giving OUR GOTDAMMN MONEY TO EVERY OTHER CUNTRY ON THE EFFING PLANET WHILE WE ARE SINKING IN DEBT FFS
That's a horrible reason to vote for someone. All the foreign aid budget combined is like 1% of the federal budget.
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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Ptilk posted:
Giving more power to corporations is not the answer to the fact that the current federal government is useless.
Dr Paul is the only genuine anti-corporatist running. As a matter of fact I'd dare say that he is the only one running that actually understands corporatism.
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Ron Paul is dangerous.
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Yukishiro1
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Ron Paul is a crazy moron. The other candidates are despicable morons.
I dunno which is better really.
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Huges07.1
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Huges07.1 posted:
I'm voting for Ron Paul because he is going to quit giving OUR GOTDAMMN MONEY TO EVERY OTHER CUNTRY ON THE EFFING PLANET WHILE WE ARE SINKING IN DEBT FFS
That's a horrible reason to vote for someone. All the foreign aid budget combined is like 1% of the federal budget.
It's one of many reasons, tbh, but the one that was my issue of the moment when I posted that. It's not a terrible reason, regardless, but we can disagree.
Further, I don't care if it's only 1/10th of a percent. That's not the point.
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__Bonk__
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Republicans in response to Obama went pure crazy and put up crazy candidates. THey dont have my vote this next time
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"Foreign aid is taking money from poor people in this country and giving it to rich people in poor countries"
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AzureTyger posted:
http://www.aclu.org/blog/immigrants-rights-racial-justice/one-family-alabama-anti-immigrant-law-fate-worse-possible
They're illegal alien invaders. They need to not be sponging jobs and government services from the tax payers. That story is an appeal to emotion, not reason or law.
AzureTyger posted:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_laws_in_the_United_States#State_laws_prior_to_2003
I think you proved my point about the time machine. Thanks.
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Huges07.1
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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__Bonk__ posted:
Republicans in response to Obama went pure crazy and put up crazy candidates. THey dont have my vote this next time
I don't think it makes a bit of difference what Obama has done or hasn't done, we'd be seeing the same people in this race regardless. Instead of voting on party lines though you should be voting on who you think is the best choice to turn things in the right direction. For me, unless it's Ron Paul, my vote is staying at home in 2012. I'm not going to vote for the least of the same old dickbag choices that are just going to continue business as usual in Washington again.
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Huges07.1
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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Aerlinthian posted:
They're illegal alien invaders. They need to not be sponging jobs and government services from the tax payers. That story is an appeal to emotion, not reason or law.
Liberals are awfully selective when it comes to laws and following them. They're blinded by race for some reason. Apparently if you're brown it's ok to break whatever law you feel like breaking and it's racist to enforce those laws.
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Given the options, why would you not vote for Ron Paul?
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Huges07.1 posted:
I'm voting for Ron Paul because he is going to quit giving OUR GOTDAMMN MONEY TO EVERY OTHER CUNTRY ON THE EFFING PLANET WHILE WE ARE SINKING IN DEBT FFS
That's a horrible reason to vote for someone. All the foreign aid budget combined is like 1% of the federal budget.
Then they won't miss it. See how easy that was.
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__Bonk__ posted:
I side with Ptilk on this. He seems very well informed for an Outposter
Pretty solid for a dead guy I agree
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