Over the last third of a century no new fiction has engaged the popular imagination and become as thoroughly essential an element of mass culture as ?Star Wars.? There can?t be many people anywhere who wouldn?t at least recognize a lightsaber or Darth Vader.

Over the last decade no video game has engaged a broader global community than World of Warcraft. The first online game to enjoy planetwide popularity, World of Warcraft had more than 12 million paid subscribers last fall. Yet it has lost around two million players over the past year, and now the original evil empire is at the door.

On Tuesday, Electronic Arts will release Star Wars: The Old Republic, a sprawling multiplayer online adventure that is the first legitimate competition that World of Warcraft has faced for the hearts, minds, hours and dollars of millions of players. ?Star Wars? games have been around for decades, but the Old Republic provides the most extensive opportunity to become your own Jedi warrior, Sith assassin, snarky smuggler or powerful sage.

A lot of attention has been paid this holiday season to the competition between the year?s two big combat games: Battlefield 3, also from Electronic Arts, and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 from Activision Blizzard, which also produces World of Warcraft. The attention is warranted because top shooter games are largely played on living-room consoles and sell millions of copies in just a few weeks.

But an online downloadable computer game like World of Warcraft or the Old Republic entices players to commit their time and emotion to a virtual character over years and generally to pay around $15 a month for the privilege. Most important, these persistent games populated by thousands of simultaneous players ? they are called massively multiplayer online games ? generate real-life relationships and communities.

And so over the next few years the competition between World of Warcraft and the Old Republic may have much more far-reaching consequences, both for players and the companies behind them, than any shooter showdown.

In the last couple of months I have spent at least 125 hours in beta tests for the Old Republic and have played another 30 hours or so since last week, when the retail servers opened to people who ordered the game months ago. You don?t play a game that much (or at least I don?t) unless you?re enjoying yourself. I?m in a guild of cool people, and my Sith sorcerer is uncovering more mysteries of the dark side every day.

I?ve also returned to World of Warcraft, the siren of my youth (or at least five years ago), which I hadn?t played seriously since early 2007. I was inspired to jump back in after visiting the BlizzCon convention in October. I have been playing World of Warcraft 20 to 30 hours a week since then, have reconnected with online buddies and have had a great time.

Having steeped myself in both games recently, I can say that any notion that the Old Republic will be a WOW killer is absurd. World of Warcraft boasts a variety, breadth and level of handcrafted content that no other game is close to matching. That said, the Old Republic is by far the best, most exciting online game since the original World of Warcraft. It should be a Star Wars fan?s dream and deserves to attract in excess of two million paying players in the three languages ? English, French and German ? available at release.

Blizzard Entertainment, which makes World of Warcraft, and BioWare, the Electronic Arts division that makes the Old Republic, enjoy deep respect and adoration among millions of players. Blizzard was a pioneer of Internet gaming; its central franchises (Diablo, Warcraft and StarCraft) are built around the online experience of playing in a community.

BioWare, by contrast, has been known for single-player entertainment. In its greatest efforts, like Baldur?s Gate, Knights of the Old Republic (an earlier ?Star Wars? title), Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect, the focus outside combat is on storytelling and characterization. BioWare, along with Rockstar (makers of Grand Theft Auto), has been a leader in driving extensive, believable voice acting into games.

The Old Republic moves beyond World of Warcraft by including full voice-over for every computer-controlled character. Almost none of the characters in Warcraft speak; instead you read the text of what they are ?saying.? The effect in the Old Republic is to draw players into an emotional connection with the story of their characters that is much more personal than the tales in World of Warcraft.

It appears, based on discussions with industry executives and financial analysts, that BioWare and Electronic Arts have spent somewhere between $125 million and $200 million making the Old Republic. That would make it the most expensive game ever. Fortunately for the makers, it shows.

Blizzard, for its part, has zero interest in creating purely single-player games, as BioWare traditionally has. So the new online Star Wars game represents BioWare?s entry into Blizzard?s wheelhouse. While you will see Electronic Arts and Activision executives jawing over the Battlefield-versus-Call of Duty competition, you never see Blizzard and BioWare doing the same. Mike Morhaime, president of Blizzard, and Ray Muzyka, BioWare?s chief, are personally cordial. (They are also among the best poker players in the video game industry, verified more than once at an annual industry trade event in Las Vegas.) Greg Zeschuk, Mr. Muzyka?s BioWare co-founder, has led development of the Old Republic. The two companies enjoy mutual respect.

Yet Blizzard is clearly managing and designing World of Warcraft in a manner meant to slow or stop the game?s erosion of players. The company announced that it would give away a copy of its next new game, Diablo III, as a bonus to players who make a full-year subscription commitment to World of Warcraft. In terms of the game?s design, the overall tone and difficulty have become much more accessible to casual players. The sorts of high-level demons and dragons that traditionally would have been conquerable only by people who played dozens of hours a week can now be felled by pickup groups of moderately skilled players.

?What we?re trying to do now is figure out what our current audience wants,? Tom Chilton, World of Warcraft?s game director, told me by phone last week. ?It became clear that it wasn?t realistic to try to get the audience back to being more hard core, as it had been in the past.?

As someone returning to World of Warcraft after a long absence, I find the current direction of the game eminently engaging. As Mr. Chilton said, ?We hear from a lot people who used to play a lot that they?re just not at that point in their life anymore, and they want to play, and they want to see the content. But they can?t make the same time commitment they used to.?

At the end of the day World of Warcraft is still about swords and spells, elves and orcs. For a player ready to trade those in for lasers, spaceships and, of course, lightsabers, Star Wars: The Old Republic beckons brightly.

Tom Chilton posted:

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It became clear that it wasn?t realistic to try to get the audience back to being more hard core, as it had been in the past.

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Rill_of_WE posted:

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Tom Chilton posted:

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It became clear that it wasn?t realistic to try to get the audience back to being more hard core, as it had been in the past.

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I think that's as close as we're gonna get to them admitting the Cataclysm mentality was a mistake.

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Rill_of_WE posted:

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Tom Chilton posted:

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It became clear that it wasn?t realistic to try to get the audience back to being more hard core, as it had been in the past.

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I think that's as close as we're gonna get to them admitting the Cataclysm mentality was a mistake.

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Rill_of_WE posted:

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Tom Chilton posted:

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It became clear that it wasn?t realistic to try to get the audience back to being more hard core, as it had been in the past.

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I think that's as close as we're gonna get to them admitting the Cataclysm mentality was a mistake.

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Rill_of_WE posted:

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Tom Chilton posted:

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It became clear that it wasn?t realistic to try to get the audience back to being more hard core, as it had been in the past.

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I think that's as close as we're gonna get to them admitting the Cataclysm mentality was a mistake.

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steveC91 posted:

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Rill_of_WE posted:

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Tom Chilton posted:

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It became clear that it wasn?t realistic to try to get the audience back to being more hard core, as it had been in the past.

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I think that's as close as we're gonna get to them admitting the Cataclysm mentality was a mistake.

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Lol exactly what I was thinking.

But hey it's a step in the right direction.

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Rill_of_WE posted:

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Tom Chilton posted:

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It became clear that it wasn?t realistic to try to get the audience back to being more hard core, as it had been in the past.

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I think that's as close as we're gonna get to them admitting the Cataclysm mentality was a mistake.

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Spookysheep posted:

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Anyway, with all that aside, did anyone else find this to be one of the more poorly written NYT articles? I remember when the writers for NYT were top notch (even if you disagreed with the paper's politics) and this article seem very amateurish.

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JaconKin posted:

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since questing is on the rails, even more so than LOTRO was before some changes and obviously more so than even WoW after the Cata changes.

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Azure-TheBlueOne posted:

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JaconKin posted:

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since questing is on the rails, even more so than LOTRO was before some changes and obviously more so than even WoW after the Cata changes.

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Umm... I don't see how it could possibly be more linear than the craptastic phased trail you run through each zone in WoW after Cataclysm. I'm not sure it's possible to be more linear than that. Rival sure, but surpass... not likely.

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The_Korrigan posted:

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There are things about SW:TOR people ignore.

For instance, you have level 40 zones on Alderaan you can go back to when at the right level, if you wish.

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JaconKin posted:

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The_Korrigan posted:

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There are things about SW:TOR people ignore.

For instance, you have level 40 zones on Alderaan you can go back to when at the right level, if you wish.

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Ah yes the Bonus Series of quest that either pop before you leave the Planet, or you are lead to when your story takes you back to one of the previous planets, for instance the Nar Shadda level 31 stuff. Come on Korrigan, that is one of the weakest defenses though I have seen. You know as much as I do that the questing is on the rails like going through through hyperdrive.

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Quazimortal posted:

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Let me get this straight...

The game has a single path you take from level 1 to level 40 and then finally you get to choose between continuing on the path or going back to a previous place in the path to keep leveling and this is his proof that leveling isn't on rails?

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TOR Forums posted:

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p.s: starting npc for this quest located on imperial fleet next to the pvp mission terminal
first step of this quest is lvl 34 regular alderaan quest, once quest updates it becomes alderaan:bonus series for level 40

i was lvl 40 when i did this quest series, when i was done i reached 42

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Quazimortal posted:

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Sounds fairly normal for a new MMO to me, I don't know why someone would even argue against it. Typically a new MMO doesn't create multiple leveling paths until later patches or expansions. Sounds to me like this game does in fact have multiple options, just not in a questing sense. So the questing is on rails, not the leveling. Not bad.

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Quazimortal posted:

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Indeed, WoW was rare in that they gave multiple quest paths to level on.

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JaconKin posted:

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seeing no alternate path available for leveling and how that might all of a sudden cause issue when leveling alts.

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Azure-TheBlueOne posted:

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JaconKin posted:

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seeing no alternate path available for leveling and how that might all of a sudden cause issue when leveling alts.

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I haven't gotten deep into the game yet, but doesn't each class have it's own immersive and detailed storyline, such that leveling alts wouldn't be the same by default? There are parts of TOR that vary the leveling experience as well as make it somewhat personal that I feel you're discounting. But in the strictest 'rail' sense, yes, perhaps TOR is more so. But really only slightly.

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JaconKin posted:

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Each Class quest is basically 3-4 quests on any of the planets, that is it

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The_Korrigan posted:

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JaconKin posted:

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Each Class quest is basically 3-4 quests on any of the planets, that is it

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3-4? Please, don't lie.

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The_Korrigan posted:

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I don't even want to argue with someone who is clearly anti-themepark... serious, jacon, why did you even buy this game? You KNEW before hand that you were going to dislike it. Maybe you need something to hate to fill your life and have something to whine about on this forum?

I'm not 40, I'm 38. I guess that makes my opinion less valid than yours? What you posted is total bullcrap. You oversimplify just to fuel your whiny stance... and yeah, you LIE.

But whatever... wait for your hypothetic paradise in GW2. During that time, I'll be enjoying a game that actually exists and is released, and is not nice promises on a web site.

And I don't even need to comment about the usual troll who doesn't even post any argument at all and possibly isn't even playing the game.

Now I have a class quest to continue... so excuse me if I leave you patting each other on the back

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JaconKin posted:

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Then of course since I am just pointing out the facts, it is apparent that some how I don't enjoy the game or am just trolling. The system is well done and interesting as far the story aspect goes, no denying that and my level 40 Sith Warrior can attest to that, but I am not blinded by the Veneer of the fluff of the system in place as well. I will call a spade what a spade is and the questing in the game is on the rails with your character being led every step of the way with zero options for the most part when it comes to questing and where and when you can quest in a given area.

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The_Korrigan posted:

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This is the big, big negative point.
Here is my problem (from the galactic map in the spaceship):
1-10: Tython - Ord Mantel
10-16: Coruscant
16-20: Taris
20-24: Nar Shaddaa
24-28: Tatooine
28-32: Alderaan
32-36: Balmorra
36-37: Quesh
37-41: Hoth
41-44: Belsavis
44-47: Voss
47-50: Corellia
50: Ilum
There's no choice, there's a single path, it's very linear, just like in Rift. BUT there's a major difference which makes SW:TOR still much better... each class has a totally different main story line, and you have two sides, which is 8 different stories to play (Rift only had two, one per side). That's why I still gave 6/10. But I still have doubts about long term replayability, unless Bioware have some aces up their sleeves to add content to existing planets. LOTRO had Evendim in their sleeve to add just after release, WoW had Maraudon, so possibly Bioware has something similar... or not. We will see. One thing needs to be said though, the first planets (Tython/Ord Mantel, Coruscant) may feel small and cramped, but later the planets open up and become much larger. For visiting them (dodging high level mobs, was fun), I can tell you Tatooine and Alderaan are HUGE.

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JaredKorry posted:

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Are you guys really arguing about TOR on a WoW board? I just find that hilarious. lol

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JaredKorry posted:

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Are you guys really arguing about TOR on a WoW board? I just find that hilarious. lol

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Quazimortal posted:

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JaredKorry posted:

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Are you guys really arguing about TOR on a WoW board? I just find that hilarious. lol

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What I find hilarious is that someone would say JaconKin is oversimplifying anything at all.

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JaredKorry posted:

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Hell, I wouldn't know one way or the other since I don't play either game. It's just amusing to see people get so worked up about it. If someone enjoys a game, is there even a need to defend or justify liking it? Or not liking it for that matter?

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GutterSludge posted:

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Jared, the spineless remark went right over your head..

He said that because you boldly stated a position (and a course of action)time and time again, yet cannot stick to your convictions regarding that statement.

In the way it was stated, a person with a proverbial "spine" who stated he/she would never post here again, simply wouldn't.


Merry Christmas.

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JaconKin posted:

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Well aware of that, I was just making my position clearer.

Some advice, you can actually learn something from those you call "the trolls".

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Ugh_Lancelot posted:

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The way certain people perceive spirited debate on the interwebs is a never-ending source of fascination.

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The_Korrigan posted:

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JaconKin: you were once an "intelligent" poster who was posting interesting information about various games like WoW and LOTRO. But it seems you got infected by the local trolls, and also since you became a rabid fan of a game we know little about except promises on a web site, something you weren't doing before (and you would still not do if your claim of "bringing proofs"). Since you started heralding GW2 here you lost common sense. (further means to discredit me)

And yes, you are full of it when you pretend there are only 3-4 class quests on each planet. You are lying because you've gone "too far" and can't accept admitting you are wrong. (opinion and discredit of my character, where is your evidence?) Anyone playing SW:TOR knows you are underestimating to fit your agenda. (opinoin no facts to back up claim)
There's no point arguing more about this, so I'm done after this post.(Because you Can't Win) In the world, there's opinion, and on that I can agree to disagree, and there are facts, and fact is there are NOT "just 3-4" class quests steps per planet. (so where are your facts?)

Merry xmas anyway.

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Arcilite_I posted:

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You might be my new favorite poster Jac

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Arcilite_I posted:

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Spooky does indeed provide a valuable service to the community. Feels good shoving somebody's nose in their own stinkhole doesn't it?

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GutterSludge posted:

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The only point I could make is that, even if the game in question has multiple avenues for progression, one could still feel like they were questing on rails...

No facts required.

For instance, a blood elf can be brand new, take the time to run to Undercity, take the boat to org,(or dip over to Brill) then run to Sin Jin to begin questing.

This, however, requires about 2 hours of wasted time just running...so one might feel like they are forced to quest in the silvermoon area, even though alternatives do exist....

The opposite is also possible, where one player feels that since it is possible to level in different areas (even though it requires several deaths, and hours to do so), then one cannot say the system is "on rails"...


This doesn't really apply to this debate, since both parties are attempting to stand on the absolutes that it either is, or isn't..but most of the debates on this board are opinion based, and require absolutely no proof of fact whatsoever.

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JaconKin posted:

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Well I will provide the Evidence you won't since all you can do is continue to try to discredit me. I can admit when I'm wrong, in this though I am right. Since you want to bring up the issue of opinions, since that is all you have offered with out evidence, and facts, all that I have done, well here goes the facts.

Dromund Kaas:

Sith Warrior:
1st Mission:
You've reported to Darth Baras at the Citadel, and he's instructed you to oversee the transfer of a prisoner at Cargo Port B7.

Commander Lanklyn is the officer in charge of the operation. Head to Cargo Port B7 in Kaas City to make sure that nothing goes awry.
Tasks:

Go to Cargo Port B7
Defeat Slestack and His Thugs
Defeat TuMarr and His Thugs
Speak to Commander Lanklyn
Defeat Slestack's Thugs
Defeat TuMarr's Thugs

2nd Mission:

Darth Baras has instructed you to meet with Commander Pritch.

Commander Pritch will have further details on what needs to be done. Head to the Imperial post near the unfinished colossus to meet him.
Tasks:

Defeat Rebel Slave Captains
Bonus mission: Quashing the Rebellion
Find the Captains' Logs
Bonus mission: Quashing the Rebellion
Return to Darth Baras

3rd Mission:
Darth Baras has instructed you to meet with Dri'kill Ba'al, his undercover spy at the Grathan compound.

Dri'kill Ba'al will have a mission for you that will demonstrate that Lord Grathan is not untouchable. Find Dri'kill Ba'al at the Warehouse Offices on Lord Grathan's Estate.
Tasks:

Speak to Dri'kill Ba'al
Destroy the Elevator Monitoring Station
Destroy the Main Room Monitoring Station
Destroy the Hallway Monitoring Station
Unlock the Security Door
Find Beelzlit Grathan
Speak to Cellvanta Grathan
Defeat Cellvanta Grathan
Defeat Beelzlit Grathan
Open the Door to Grathan's Private Chamber
Find Lord Grathan
Speak to Lord Grathan
Defeat Lord Grathan and Take His Mask
Defeat Dri'kill Ba'al
Defeat Grathan's Guards
Return to Darth Baras

4th Mission:

Darth Baras's attempts to break Grik Sonosan have hit a standstill. In order to gain the information he craves, Darth Baras requires an ancient torture device from the Dark Temple called the Ravager.
Tasks:

Find the Ravager
Recover Ravager Components
Return to the Ravager
Speak to Lord Vacuus
Defeat Lord Vacuus
Defeat the Deranged Excavators
Repair the Ravager

5th Mission:

Darth Baras has sent you to get your own starship at its private hangar in the Dromund Kaas spaceport, then contact him via the holoterminal on the ship's bridge.
Tasks:

Go to the Sith Warrior Hanger
Bonus mission: Endplanet Crawl
Speak to Ralesk
Defeat Ralesk

Balmora:

1st Mission:
Contact Made

Nomen Karr's Padawan has leveled suspicion on two of Darth Baras's spies. These spies must be eliminated before they are exposed.

Use your ship's galaxy map to travel to Balmorra, then contact Baras via your holocommunicator for further instructions.
Tasks:

Travel to Balmorra
Use Your Ship's Holoterminal
Go to Lieutenant Malavai Quinn's Office

2nd Mission:
Erase the Past

According to Darth Baras, sensitive material exists in the satellite control tower mainframe that will prove Commander Rylon's involvement in the sabotage of Balmorra's defenses during the war.

Lieutenant Quinn has supplied you with the explosives. Head to the satellite control tower in the Markaran Plains and detonate the mainframe computer.
Tasks:

Plant the Explosives
Bonus mission: Erase Them for Good

3rd Mission:
According to Darth Baras, Ensign Durmat, Commander Rylon's son, knows his father's true allegiance and is being held in the brig of Republic Outpost Victory, waiting to be questioned by an investigator sent by the Jedi.

Darth Baras has ordered you to silence Ensign Durmat before he can reveal the truth about Commander Rylon. Head to Republic Outpost Victory and find Ensign Durmat in the brig.
Tasks:

Locate Ensign Durmat
Bonus mission: Throw Away the Key
Speak to Ensign Durmat
Bonus mission: Throw Away the Key
Defeat Jailer Zixx
Defeat the Republic Special Forces
Bonus mission: Throw Away the Key
Retrieve the Amnesia Drug
Return to Ensign Durmat

4th Mission:
To Kill a Legend

With the satellite control tower mainframe detonated and Ensign Durmat silenced, it is time to receive your final instructions from Darth Baras.

Lieutenant Malavai Quinn has given you private use of his office's holoterminal. Contact Darth Baras using the holoterminal.
Tasks:

Use the Office Holoterminal
Find Commander Rylon
Speak to Captain Eligyn
Defeat Captain Eligyn
Defeat the Black Battalion Commandos
Defeat Commander Rylon
Bonus mission: endplanet crawl
Use Your Personal Holocom
Intercept the Jedi Knight
Speak to Jedi Knight Mashallon
Defeat Jedi Knight Mashallon
Return to Lieutenant Malavai Quinn
Go to Your Ship Hanger
Speak to Lieutenant Malavai Quinn

Nar Shadda:
1st Mission:
Disrupt Negotiations

In order to eliminate Darth Baras's former spy, Agent Dellocon, you must draw his protector, Lord Rathari, into a confrontation by destroying all of his operations.

Your contact, Halidrell Setsyn, has informed you that Lord Rathari is strong-arming the Hutt Cartel out of some territory. Interrupt Rathari's negotiations at the Hutt Cartel safe house in the Duros Sector.
Tasks:

Go to the Hutt Cartel Safe House
Defeat Apprentice Girik
Defeat Hutt Cartel Bodyguards

2nd Mission:
An Army of One

In order to eliminate Darth Baras's former spy, Agent Dellocon, you must draw his protector, Lord Rathari, into a confrontation by destroying all of his operations.

Your contact, Halidrell Setsyn, has directed you to disrupt Lord Rathari's siege on Outpost Shylon in the Upper Industrial Sector.
Tasks:

Go to Republic Outpost Shylon
Bonus mission: Bringing Up the Rear
Speak to General Kligton
Defeat General Kligton
Bonus mission: Bringing Up the Rear
Defeat Imperial Soldiers
Bonus mission: Bringing Up the Rear
Destroy the Barricade
Deal with the Republic Forces
Defeat Lieutenant Weggland
Defeat Republic Soldiers

Third Mission:
Operation Rescue

While answering Halidrell Setsyn's distress call you have encountered some of Rathari's Imperial soldiers. Defeat them with impunity
Tasks:

Defeat the Imperials

4th Mission:
To Kill a Sith Lord

Your target, Agent Dellocon, is under the protection of Darth Baras's rival, Lord Rathari. To gain access to Dellocon, you have thwarted all of Rathari's power-grab attempts.

In retaliation, Rathari has killed your contact, Halidrell Setsyn, and challenged you to a duel at his satellite platform in Network Access.
Tasks:

Meet with Lord Rathari
Bonus mission: Rathari's Entourage
Speak to Lord Rathari
Defeat Elite Imperial Soldiers
Defeat Lord Rathari
Bonus mission: Rathari's Entourage
Defeat Agent Dellocon
Bonus mission: Rathari's Entourage

Tatooine:
1st Mission:
Seek Answers

Darth Baras has ordered you to hunt down and destroy those who are close to Nomen Karr's Padawan. He is certain this will draw her out.

She trained on Tatooine. Use your ship's galaxy map to travel toTatooine, then contact Baras via your holocommunicator for further instructions.
Tasks:

Travel to Tatooine
Use Your Ship's Holoterminal
Speak to Sharack Breev
Speak to Izzeebowe Jeef
Bonus mission: Deal with the Exchange

2nd Mission:
Demon's Blood

With the help of your guide, Sharack Breev, you are following the path that Nomen Karr's Padawan took to find a legendary Jedi Master named Yonlach. Your mission on Tatooine is to kill Yonlach.

First, you must confront the ancient Sand Demon that the Padawan used in an old Jedi ritual. Take a speeder to Outpost Varath in Jundland. Then travel to the Shattered Basin and find the Sand Demon's cave.
Tasks:

Search the Sand Demon's Cave
Bonus mission: Clean out Sand Demon's Cave
Approach the Sand Demon
Defeat the Sand Demon
Bonus mission: Bleed the Sand
Trail the Padawan's Movements
Explore the Chieftain's Cave
Search the Hut for Clues

3rd Mission:
Oasis

With the help of your guide, Sharack Breev, you are following the path that Nomen Karr's Padawan took to find a legendary Jedi Master named Yonlach. Your mission on Tatooine is to kill Yonlach.

The Sand People chieftain surrendered a map that points you to a mysterious oasis in the deep desert. Take a speeder to Mos Anek and find the oasis in Jundland.
Tasks:

Trek to the Oasis
Bonus mission: Bleed the Wound
Defeat Your Reflection

4th Mission:
With the help of your guide, Sharack Breev, you are following the path that Nomen Karr's Padawan took to find a legendary Jedi Master named Yonlach. Your mission on Tatooine is to kill Yonlach.

You have been granted a vision by your reflection that tells you where Master Yonlach can be found. Take a speeder to Outpost Zaroshe in the Dune Sea and confront Jedi Master Yonlach at his domain.
Tasks:

Confront Master Yonlach
Speak to Master Yonlach
Defeat Master Yonlach
Defeat Yul-li
Talk to Sharack Breev


I kept in the quests were you go and make contact or in the case of Kaas when you get the ship, to pad the number, you take that out though and it's normally three or four quests on that planet. Anybody want to know who is really lying, just go to TOR head. click on the planets, count the number of quests there are for each class at the level for that planet, indicated by the single symbol for that class, it will be 3-4. Note, some planets, such as Dromound Kaas will have higher level missions ,as previously stated, sometimes you get sent back to these planets at higher levels as interludes between one Chapter of your Story to the Next.

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JaconKin posted:

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I suggest you look over this link Korrigan, you might learn something about proper debate, argument, logic and reason e.g. intelligence.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

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GutterSludge posted:

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I'm not sure what you mean...

The 80-85 section of Cata is like this to an extent,while in an area.. but the next available are opens up based on level, not quests completed.

Ie one does not have to complete Hyjal in order to hit Deepholm, nor does on have to finish that to move on to Uldum or Twilight highlands.


Technically one could run dungeons and bg's to 83 or 84, and do their first questing in Twilight Highlands, having never set foot in any of the other areas.

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Korrigan posted:

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Almost each steps within what you call "missions" is an independent quest. As I said, what you dumb down into a single quest, is in reality several quests in a row, that you intentionally simplify just to fit your agenda and to not have to admit being wrong.

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JaredKorry posted:

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GutterSludge posted:

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I'm not sure what you mean...

The 80-85 section of Cata is like this to an extent,while in an area.. but the next available are opens up based on level, not quests completed.

Ie one does not have to complete Hyjal in order to hit Deepholm, nor does on have to finish that to move on to Uldum or Twilight highlands.


Technically one could run dungeons and bg's to 83 or 84, and do their first questing in Twilight Highlands, having never set foot in any of the other areas.

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True, but what I think he means is that one you go to a zone to start questing, you *have* to start at a particular place and do the quests in order in order to open other quests in the area.

In your example of Twilight Highlands, you *have* to start with the quests on the boat and proceed through the ones on the beach before you get a quest that opens up the dwarf town that has all the dailies for farming rep.

You aren't able to just skip everything else and go straight to that town because the quests won't show up until you do all the other quests first. If the questing is like that in TOR, that is disappointing.

---

GutterSludge posted:

---

I'm not sure what you mean...

The 80-85 section of Cata is like this to an extent,while in an area.. but the next available are opens up based on level, not quests completed.

Ie one does not have to complete Hyjal in order to hit Deepholm, nor does on have to finish that to move on to Uldum or Twilight highlands.


Technically one could run dungeons and bg's to 83 or 84, and do their first questing in Twilight Highlands, having never set foot in any of the other areas.

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The_Korrigan posted:

---

time to take a break from WoW general

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Quazimortal posted:

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The_Korrigan posted:

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time to take a break from WoW general

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Good riddance. You won't be missed.

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JaredKorry posted:

---

Quazimortal posted:

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The_Korrigan posted:

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time to take a break from WoW general

---

Good riddance. You won't be missed.

---

Was that really necessary? I'm betting you wouldn't be missed if you disappeared either.

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JaredKorry posted:

---

What purpose did it serve to post such a comment? To make yourself feel good? To take a cheap shot at another poster? Just to be a jerkoff? This is a prime example of the statement in my sig. Jaconkin is the only one I've seen actually address what Korrigan says. The rest of you just jump on the "attack the poster" bandwagon out of pure meanness.

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Azure-TheBlueOne posted:

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Wait... people here take Spooky seriously?


You know, he really is a masterful troll.

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Azure-TheBlueOne posted:

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Wait... people here take Spooky seriously?


You know, he really is a masterful troll.

---

Quazimortal posted:

---

JaredKorry posted:

---

Quazimortal posted:

---

[quote=The_Korrigan]time to take a break from WoW general

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Good riddance. You won't be missed.

---

Was that really necessary? I'm betting you wouldn't be missed if you disappeared either.

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NoOne posted:

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Na take his word for it no one would miss your stupid ass on these forums.

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Korrigan posted:

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The arrogance displayed here makes the above even more funny.

---

Korrigan posted:

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The trolls and the GW2 fanbois unite...

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Korrigan posted:

---

You oversimplify just to fuel your whiny stance... and yeah, you LIE.

But whatever... wait for your hypothetic paradise in GW2. During that time, I'll be enjoying a game that actually exists and is released, and is not nice promises on a web site.

And I don't even need to comment about the usual troll who doesn't even post any argument at all and possibly isn't even playing the game.

---

Korrigan posted:

---

JaconKin: you were once an "intelligent" poster who was posting interesting information about various games like WoW and LOTRO. But it seems you got infected by the local trolls, and also since you became a rabid fan of a game we know little about except promises on a web site, something you weren't doing before (and you would still not do if your claim of "bringing proofs"). Since you started heralding GW2 here you lost common sense.

---

Korrigan posted:

---

. Keep on stroking each other's ePeen and pat each other on the back thinking you are right, if it does you any good. And thanks for this last laugh.

---

Korrigan posted:

---

The arrogance displayed here makes the above even more funny. I was about to suggest you to find definitions of "dumbass" or something like that, but it's not necessary, you just owned yourself. I will me merciful and won't strike a man who is already down.

---

Korrigan posted:

---

Nothing more to say here. And thanks for doing my job, I wouldn't have typed such a long text and was about to give up arguing with the brick wall, but looks like the brick wall destroyed itself.

---

Korrigan posted:

---

Almost each steps within what you call "missions" is an independent quest.

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Korrigan posted:

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As I said, what you dumb down into a single quest, is in reality several quests in a row, that you intentionally simplify just to fit your agenda and to not have to admit being wrong.

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-Mithan- posted:

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I am having fun in SWTOR and could see this being my "alternate" MMO to WoW, unless GW2 actually impresses me which I doubt it will.

The funny thing though is that it makes me want to play WoW again. Go figure.

---

ratster posted:

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How is this the only active thread on the WoW forum.

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Arcilite_I posted:

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Didn't you learn anything with WoW? Korrigan will defend this game until the next piece of crap that catches his interest comes along.

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GutterSludge posted:

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So,

Jared hasn't posted in months..

Korrigan pretty much gets schooled in yet another thread...

Korrigan stops responding completely......

Jared takes over the attempted defense?

---

Arcilite_I posted:

---

GutterSludge posted:

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So,

Jared hasn't posted in months..

Korrigan pretty much gets schooled in yet another thread...

Korrigan stops responding completely......

Jared takes over the attempted defense?

---

I noticed the switch too. Jared even made a point to state he/she hadn't been here in months.

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Arcilite_I posted:

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Of course you do, you're Korrigan's attention whore driven alter-ego.

---

JaredKorry posted:

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Arcilite_I posted:

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Of course you do, you're Korrigan's attention whore driven alter-ego.

---

Dang! How'd you guess??

---

JaredKorry posted:

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Hey! Why can't I be both?!?! But I must point out how very typical it is for you to bend over backward to divert attention from your childish behavior when you get called on it.

Do you deny that you criticize and demean anything and everything Korrigan says, does or likes for no other reason then your personal dislike of him? I don't see you attacking or belittling anyone else who says positive things about SWTOR. Only when Korrigan says positive things about the game does it suddenly become "a piece of crap." As I said before, you need to grow up.

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Osito_de_Felpa posted:

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Jared, has it occurred to you that you actually are The Korrigan, but just don't know it? Think about it:

1. You don't post the same time.
2. Jared + The Korrigan >>> JaredKorry (have you checked out the definitions for Jared in the Urban Dictionary?)
3. You usually defend him.

Look at it this way: can you remember where you were last time The Korrigan posted?

;-)

(Boy, I have way to much time on my hands this morning)

---

JaredKorry posted:

---

Osito_de_Felpa posted:

---

Jared, has it occurred to you that you actually are The Korrigan, but just don't know it? Think about it:

1. You don't post the same time.
2. Jared + The Korrigan >>> JaredKorry (have you checked out the definitions for Jared in the Urban Dictionary?)
3. You usually defend him.

Look at it this way: can you remember where you were last time The Korrigan posted?

;-)

(Boy, I have way to much time on my hands this morning)

---

1. There are numerous posters that meet that qualification. Does that mean I am all of them as well?

2. No I haven't checked out the definition of Jared in the urban dictionary. Honestly, it doesn't even interest me in the least.

3. Please show me where I defended him or his position in an argument/debate. This has more to do with Arcilite's behavior then Korrigan. Arc tries so hard to act like he's the just the coolest thing but he acts like a child. He is completely unable to put aside his own personal dislike of someone and be objective. He is completely unable to address what a person says and resorts to just belittling the person instead.

No matter what Korrigan (or anyone he doesn't like) says or does, Arc will belittle and disparage it simply because Korrigan (or anyone he doesn't like) said or did it whereas, if anyone else said or did the same thing, Arc wouldn't say a word. I find that to be extremely immature and childish. He needs to grow up and stop blindly attacking people out of personal dislike.

I think it's pretty well known that I don't care for Arc, Gutter, or Spooky, but I don't attack them very time they post just because I don't like them. There have been several times I've agreed with something they have said. That's called being objective, looking past your own personal dislike of someone and addressing what is said, not who said it.

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JaredKorry posted:

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I think it's pretty well known that I don't care for Arc, Gutter, or Spooky, but I don't attack them very time they post just because I don't like them. There have been several times I've agreed with something they have said. That's called being objective, looking past your own personal dislike of someone and addressing what is said, not who said it.

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Unstruck posted:

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Arc's a good guy. If you can't see that, then you need to develop a sense of humor.

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Spookysheep posted:

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JaredKorry posted:

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I think it's pretty well known that I don't care for Arc, Gutter, or Spooky, but I don't attack them very time they post just because I don't like them. There have been several times I've agreed with something they have said. That's called being objective, looking past your own personal dislike of someone and addressing what is said, not who said it.

---

You say you don't like me, but secretly we all know you would totally 4 way with me, you, Xena and Gabrielle. And you know it would be the greatest day of your life.


No shame dude. Bro's before ho's.

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Spookysheep posted:

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Meanwhile, me, Arc, Quazi, and Gutter and are going to have a damn good time placing bets on who can get the best head shots on zombies.

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MinionX-DW posted:

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Rofl, this thread cracks me up, only because people like Jalon will convince people that leveling in this game is a Linear path only.

A. Bonus Quests from previous zones are some of the best XP you can get in the game, If you're not going back and doing those Bonus zones, you're missing out on a HUGE amount.

B. You don't actually have to do any of the normal quests in this game if you group, Seriously, my group got to 50 in the first week by simply doing the Class Quests of each world, followed by whatever Heroic Quests there were, and Flash points, I skipped a HUGE amount of normal quests on the regular worlds. Hell, other then the Class Quests, I sometimes flat out skipped worlds.

C. Space Missions are excellent XP, Doing the Dailies for those is extremely nice for leveling, so is the PVP.

D. I've already started leveling a second character, and i'm already seeing different content then what i did on my first one, Because my first character took a more group oriented leveling route, while my new character i'm soloing to 50 on.

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JaconKin posted:

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No, you still follow that path from 1-50.

Basically, I haven't done a single instance, PVP, or Space Mission that gives you other means of XP.

So if all you do is questing, the questing is completely on the rails.

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JaconKin posted:

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The_Korrigan posted:

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There are things about SW:TOR people ignore.

For instance, you have level 40 zones on Alderaan you can go back to when at the right level, if you wish.

---

Ah yes the Bonus Series of quest that either pop before you leave the Planet, or you are lead to when your story takes you back to one of the previous planets, for instance the Nar Shadda level 31 stuff. Come on Korrigan, that is one of the weakest defenses though I have seen. You know as much as I do that the questing is on the rails like going through through hyperdrive.

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Quazimortal posted:

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Sounds fairly normal for a new MMO to me, I don't know why someone would even argue against it. Typically a new MMO doesn't create multiple leveling paths until later patches or expansions. Sounds to me like this game does in fact have multiple options, just not in a questing sense. So the questing is on rails, not the leveling. Not bad.

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Spookysheep posted:

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Holy F8*#)$)# S9#$t~!~~~~~


I've been drunk since Christmas and finally sober up enough to get on VN, only to find that all my years of trolling actually proved a service IRL and made jacokin a better writer, and Korrigan is still getting embarrassed when he gets his ass handed to him so he still logs in his alt account to agree with himself because his colossal ego and lack of personal self esteem can never let him admit that he is an idiot who is wrong 99% of the time, and even more sadly, he really cares what people think of him here.


I dare say, the zombie apocalypse really IS approaching people.


Prepare thyself!

If you don't have a shotty, a Hum-V, and are a main character, you are all gonnna dieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!


Meanwhile, me, Arc, Quazi, and Gutter and are going to have a damn good time placing bets on who can get the best head shots on zombies.

And somehow I think Jacokin is going to be that surprise guy that survives the ending, despite all odds (which means he will get to boink Megan Fox, that bastard)

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Azure-TheBlueOne posted:

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Just a minor quibble with your facts Jacon, but you don't seem to have to do all the quests in an area before moving on to the next section of a planet and picking up the quests - so it's a bit different from how WoW is setup now with their phased zone sections, where you have to complete all the quests to move onto the next quest section. I've skipped a couple planets other than my class quest (too much xp) now, and I was able to find quests deep in the planet even though I didn't do any of the previous section's quests. It seems more like WoW classic to me - in that you can grab quests at any time except quest chains of course. One of my friends completed Balmorra in an entirely different order than I did, which I didn't think was possible.

The class quest is on rails, but only in the sense that it's one huge quest chain that leads you throughout the game and immerses you in the story for your class. I WISH WoW had an interactive quest story for each class that led you from 1-max. I see this as a big positive rather than a negative.

I think some of the early zones are phased like WoW though, maybe giving the impression the whole game is like that - but it doesn't appear to be so far.

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JaconKin posted:

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Before Cata was it not possible to run to a Zone, get almost every starter quest there even though they might have been 5 levels above you and then decide the order upon which you could do those quests, or challenge yourself and get more XP for doing a quest above level. So you r must either do a certain quest to unlock X quest, or reach a level to unlock X quest.

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Azure-TheBlueOne posted:

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JaconKin posted:

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Before Cata was it not possible to run to a Zone, get almost every starter quest there even though they might have been 5 levels above you and then decide the order upon which you could do those quests, or challenge yourself and get more XP for doing a quest above level. So you r must either do a certain quest to unlock X quest, or reach a level to unlock X quest.

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It was, which is why I differentiated between Classic WoW and Cata in my posts in this thread. As for your comments on Dromund Kaas, I don't deny the possibility that some quests are phased until you've done the other appropriate quests. Especially the earlier planets - I believe Dromund Kaas is only the 2nd planet after the starter. Other than quest chains, it doesn't appear to be this way on later planets, but I could be mistaken.

Opposing classes do play similarly, but there are differences. For instance Sith Inquisitors get force lightning, but Jedi Consulars do not use lightning, they get more force pushes I believe.

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MinionX-DW posted:

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Jacon you're confused on how the actual quest system in this game is setup.

"Ah yes the Bonus Series of quest that either pop before you leave the Planet, or you are lead to when your story takes you back to one of the previous planets, for instance the Nar Shadda level 31 stuff. Come on Korrigan, that is one of the weakest defenses though I have seen. You know as much as I do that the questing is on the rails like going through through hyperdrive."

This basically boils down to

"Ahh yes, I know you're right, and the quest system is not linear, But since it's going to complete refute my very argument because i did not actually plan ahead and think about it, I'm going to say this actual proof does not count!"

Linear again, implies one way, You admitted you can go back.. there ya go.

---

Jacon posted:

---

The only series of quests that I know from my experience that can be done out of sequential order are the Bonus Series quests as I did the Nar Shadda bonus series before a class quest would have eventually led me to this spot. This class quest was after I completed Alderaan, yet I did the Nar Shadda bonus quest before I did Alderaan. I was able to accept the quest from the giver to this bonus series at level 29, the quest series and mobs are level 31. Alderaa,n as shown in Korrigan's post, is for level 28-32. The only reason I knew about the bonus series of quests on Nar Shadda though was that in order to find DataCrons, I have been looking up their locations on the web and discovered that bonus series of quests were on Nar Shadda and two Data Crons were at this area of questing. If I hadn't gone to the particular area due to my hunt for Datacrons, I would have been led here eventually due to my class quest leading me to this spot after Alderaan. So from the evidence I have seen, Bonus Series of quests will open up once level appropriate, but the only way to open them up is either out level a planet or complete all the questing on a planet and become level appropriate for the quests. Thus, I would bet the reason your friend had a different experience is because he out leveled a planet through grouping and PVP, went to it. The Bonus Series was already unlocked and he did both the Bonus Series of quests plus the regular series of quests that the planet offers. Bonus series usually pop up and are a continuation of the Planets Story, basically you finish the work in the story of either side to take control of the planet from the other side. As I stated earlier, these either pop up when you are about to leave the planet after questing there, the quest giver standing at the hanger, or you are led to them eventually through a class quest as would have been the case with Nar Shadda.

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MinionX-DW posted:

---

Jacon you're confused on how the actual quest system in this game is setup.

1. You have your Class Quest, this generally sends you to each hub on the actual World you're fighting on, you do this in a linear fashion.

2. You have the World Storyline quest, this is generally a quest that follows a long the same class quest, basically it leads you to each hub.

3. You have Heroic Quests that are usually just in a given area, these can be 2 man or 4 man.

4. You have Bonus Quest Series for completing a world, usually a previous one, these aren't locked in. You also have Bonus Area's on the map that are multi tiered, again not locked into the world or class quest series, you just get it for killing certain mobs at a place.

5. You have the Actual mission hubs, these are the solo quests, and are completely separate from World Storyline quests, You don't have to do these, or but generally is a good idea.

---

JaconKin posted:

---

Questing is basically as Follows:

A:Story Quest Takes you to planet start area where you talk to Class Quest guy at starting hub(later there is nobody to talk to at times here the quest is already someplace in the field). Pick up sidequests at Hub. Do side quests, do class quest, turn in these quests. While out doing said quest, "Bonus" Kill X Number of Mob quests appear. Sometimes they are multi layered, having more than one part, sometimes they are not and its just Kill 15 of these dudes.
B:After this your Class Quest and the next set of sidequest will take you to the next side quest hub, where quests are unavailable until you complete the above sidequest hub.
D: Each Planet has a total of 3-4 story quests total that you chase after, going from one side quest hub to another, from one zone of the planet, to a new zone of the planet.
C: Rinse and Repeat for every planet.

Basically also your story/questing is split up into Chapters of your story. 1-15 is the Prolgoue. 15-30 is Chapter 1, 30-40 is Chapter 2, and 40-50 is Chapter 3. Usually at the end or start of each chapter it might send you to a ship or something that is in the sky above the next planet you are supposed to land on that is an interlude between the chapters leading from the end of one to the start of the next.

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JaconKin posted:

---

Hoth is interesting also because basically the Sidquests equal 2-3 Solo sidequests with 1 Group quest for that sidequest hub set.

---

You also have Bonus Area's on the map that are multi tiered, again not locked into the world or class quest series, you just get it for killing certain mobs at a place.

Azure-TheBlueOne posted:

---

So I was right in that they play similarly, they share some abilities and the class mechanic mirrors exactly, but aren't exact replicas (ie. some abilities do not mirror). Ok.

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NukeMage posted:

---

. . did someone mention something about boinking Megan Fox?

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JaconKin posted:

---

Simply put, if I hadn't gone back to look for the Datacrons I wanted to get at this area as discovered through an online source, what would have compelled me to go back to Nar Shadda once I had completed all my questing here at mid Twenties. No bonus series of quest pop up for me as I was leaving the planet at the hanger, so I thought that there was no bonus series here.

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Spookysheep posted:

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NukeMage posted:

---

. . did someone mention something about boinking Megan Fox?

---

Tell me about it. Can you believe these goobers going off topic after a megan fox reference?

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Kriegprojekt posted:

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Spookysheep posted:

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NukeMage posted:

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. . did someone mention something about boinking Megan Fox?

---

Tell me about it. Can you believe these goobers going off topic after a megan fox reference?

---

Id rather take Mila any day of the week. I wouldnt throw Megan outta my bed though.

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NukeMage posted:

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Kriegprojekt posted:

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Spookysheep posted:

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[quote=NukeMage] . . did someone mention something about boinking Megan Fox?

---

Tell me about it. Can you believe these goobers going off topic after a megan fox reference?

---

Id rather take Mila any day of the week. I wouldnt throw Megan outta my bed though.

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JaconKin posted:

---

MinionX-DW posted:

---

Jacon you're confused on how the actual quest system in this game is setup.

"Ah yes the Bonus Series of quest that either pop before you leave the Planet, or you are lead to when your story takes you back to one of the previous planets, for instance the Nar Shadda level 31 stuff. Come on Korrigan, that is one of the weakest defenses though I have seen. You know as much as I do that the questing is on the rails like going through through hyperdrive."

This basically boils down to

"Ahh yes, I know you're right, and the quest system is not linear, But since it's going to complete refute my very argument because i did not actually plan ahead and think about it, I'm going to say this actual proof does not count!"

Linear again, implies one way, You admitted you can go back.. there ya go.

---

Jacon posted:

---

The only series of quests that I know from my experience that can be done out of sequential order are the Bonus Series quests as I did the Nar Shadda bonus series before a class quest would have eventually led me to this spot. This class quest was after I completed Alderaan, yet I did the Nar Shadda bonus quest before I did Alderaan. I was able to accept the quest from the giver to this bonus series at level 29, the quest series and mobs are level 31. Alderaa,n as shown in Korrigan's post, is for level 28-32. The only reason I knew about the bonus series of quests on Nar Shadda though was that in order to find DataCrons, I have been looking up their locations on the web and discovered that bonus series of quests were on Nar Shadda and two Data Crons were at this area of questing. If I hadn't gone to the particular area due to my hunt for Datacrons, I would have been led here eventually due to my class quest leading me to this spot after Alderaan. So from the evidence I have seen, Bonus Series of quests will open up once level appropriate, but the only way to open them up is either out level a planet or complete all the questing on a planet and become level appropriate for the quests. Thus, I would bet the reason your friend had a different experience is because he out leveled a planet through grouping and PVP, went to it. The Bonus Series was already unlocked and he did both the Bonus Series of quests plus the regular series of quests that the planet offers. Bonus series usually pop up and are a continuation of the Planets Story, basically you finish the work in the story of either side to take control of the planet from the other side. As I stated earlier, these either pop up when you are about to leave the planet after questing there, the quest giver standing at the hanger, or you are led to them eventually through a class quest as would have been the case with Nar Shadda.

---

Here goes the Level 31 Sith Warrior Class quest that would have led me back to Nar Shadda if I hadn't gone back to get to actually explore to get a couple of datacrons.

Darth Baras granted you the title of Sith Lord and offered you a respite from your duties. But a warrior never rests for long.(Text Edited to Prevent Spoilers)

http://www.torhead.com/mission/aTxPnjZ
Speak to Darth Baras via your ship's holoterminal to begin the next phase of your journey.
Tasks:

Use Your Ship's Holoterminal
Travel to Nar Shaddaa
Locate General Karastace Gonn
Defeat the Republic Watchmen
Interrupt the Secret Meeting
Speak to Fawste
Defeat General Karastace Gonn
Defeat the Republic Sentinels
Defeat Fawste
Defeat the Imperial Defectors

http://www.torhead.com/area/1197#missions;page:2 All quests labeled as level 31 are part of the bonus series.

Simply put, if I hadn't gone back to look for the Datacrons I wanted to get at this area as discovered through an online source, what would have compelled me to go back to Nar Shadda once I had completed all my questing here at mid Twenties. No bonus series of quest pop up for me as I was leaving the planet at the hanger, so I thought that there was no bonus series here.

What would have led me back, just following the questing path, to discover the bonus series of quest is the linked and provided Class quest you get once you are done with Alderaan.

Also the following is untrue:

MinionX-DW posted:

---

Jacon you're confused on how the actual quest system in this game is setup.

1. You have your Class Quest, this generally sends you to each hub on the actual World you're fighting on, you do this in a linear fashion.

2. You have the World Storyline quest, this is generally a quest that follows a long the same class quest, basically it leads you to each hub.

3. You have Heroic Quests that are usually just in a given area, these can be 2 man or 4 man.

4. You have Bonus Quest Series for completing a world, usually a previous one, these aren't locked in. You also have Bonus Area's on the map that are multi tiered, again not locked into the world or class quest series, you just get it for killing certain mobs at a place.

5. You have the Actual mission hubs, these are the solo quests, and are completely separate from World Storyline quests, You don't have to do these, or but generally is a good idea.

---

Umm, I have the questing model confused? Basically what you have grouped into "differing categories" to try to show something that isn't there, I grouped them into one category, sidequests, and the other category being your class quest.

JaconKin posted:

---

Questing is basically as Follows:

A:Story Quest Takes you to planet start area where you talk to Class Quest guy at starting hub(later there is nobody to talk to at times here the quest is already someplace in the field). Pick up sidequests at Hub. Do side quests, do class quest, turn in these quests. While out doing said quest, "Bonus" Kill X Number of Mob quests appear. Sometimes they are multi layered, having more than one part, sometimes they are not and its just Kill 15 of these dudes.
B:After this your Class Quest and the next set of sidequest will take you to the next side quest hub, where quests are unavailable until you complete the above sidequest hub.
D: Each Planet has a total of 3-4 story quests total that you chase after, going from one side quest hub to another, from one zone of the planet, to a new zone of the planet.
C: Rinse and Repeat for every planet.

Basically also your story/questing is split up into Chapters of your story. 1-15 is the Prolgoue. 15-30 is Chapter 1, 30-40 is Chapter 2, and 40-50 is Chapter 3. Usually at the end or start of each chapter it might send you to a ship or something that is in the sky above the next planet you are supposed to land on that is an interlude between the chapters leading from the end of one to the start of the next.

---

JaconKin posted:

---

Hoth is interesting also because basically the Sidquests equal 2-3 Solo sidequests with 1 Group quest for that sidequest hub set.

---

I think I understand and have shown with proof and without a shadow of a doubt that I understand how questing exactly works in this game because that is all I have done in soloing the game are the quests and only ones that can be soloed. You said your next play through will done in this fashion, get back to me once you have played the game exactly as I have done as single player game and only doing single player quests. No PVP, No Dungeons, No Space Mission Mini Game. Just Questing. I don't like having to use the fallacy of Argument from Experience, but in this case since you wish to argue with the facts I have presented in the context upon which I am presenting my facts, the only way for you to possibly even understand the argument it seems is from experiencing it yourself.

Also the following is Untrue:

You also have Bonus Area's on the map that are multi tiered, again not locked into the world or class quest series, you just get it for killing certain mobs at a place.

Certain Bonus Area quest, Killing X Number, are locked into the quest you have because I have had such Bonus Area quests disappear when either completing a giving quest task. For instance planting Explosive in a Cave on Tattoine for a quest and that I was required to Kill X and Y number of Guys and once I completed planting the Explosives the Kill Quest disappeared unfinished. I only had three guys to go to kill and there were three guys before me before leaving said cave. Yet, the glowing marker for me to plant my explosive was before these three guys so I decided to plant said explosive since I would have to kill the guys on my way out of the cave, the Bonus Area Kill Quest disappeared. I had this happen to me on a few other occasions. I even commented about in General Chat and had a couple of other people respond that the same happened to them. The reason this sticks out is because I was actually quite pissed that the Bonus Kill Quest Disappeared.

Simply put, the only person who hasn't been fooled it seems by certain aspects of the game and its presentation is me.

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JaredKorry posted:

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Gee, I wonder where the troll patrol are. They were all over Korrigan, mocking and belittling him for disagreeing with Jacokin yet none of these other posters who also disagree with Jacokin are being mocked or belittled. How odd.

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JaredKorry posted:

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"KnowwutImeanvern?"

You just revealed your age by using that phrase and I just revealed mine by recognizing it.

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Spookysheep posted:

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JaredKorry posted:

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"KnowwutImeanvern?"

You just revealed your age by using that phrase and I just revealed mine by recognizing it.

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Yep, we're getting old, but at least can still appreciate the girl on girl of xena and gabrielle. That makes us young at heart FOREVER!

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MinionX-DW posted:

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I've already outlvled Balmora, having not even been there yet on my Sniper *grin*(What is the Context of of your out leveling Balmora? Did you grind up on Mobs? Did you do Dungeons, PVP, and Space Mission Quests? Or was it completely Questing? With out providing the Context of how you out leveled, any statement can be made to seem like it is true and "proof" against an argument. Picking and choosing little sections of an argument while ignoring the rest and the context upon which the argument is being based is poor argumentative skills. )

So pretty much kills your linear fashion, but hell, Lets go a little be further.

Go to hoth, if you're empire, soon as you leave hoth, go left on your map...

Watch as you find an ENTIRE new zone that you won't see unless you go back to Hoth and actually find it.

Hoth is around 41-44 i believe, this area is 47+....(So you can't be bothered to even look at the Post upon which the level ranges of the planets are listed as I pulled from Korrigan's impression? So, why should I think you have even bothered to read every aspect of the argument outlined? Hoth is 38-41 for normal questing, then 47 for the Bonus Series, as shown below.)

You can't even get quests in this entire zone until you hit level 47.

If you do the Quests here, you'll outlevel the other planets in your level range.

Here goes a fine example of ignoring my argument, I have stated several times that there are times when the Bonus Series doesn't take place right away, Nar Shadda takes place at level 31 and you are lead back here eventually by two quests, a class quest or a quest if you miss it on the Fleet. The same goes for Alderaan Bonus Series at level 41, and is needed to be completed if you wish to be on level later in the game as shown by the provided MMO Champion Link.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1055548-Quests-between-Belsavis-and-Voss


http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=97203



If you wish to continue to ignore certain parts of my argument and the context in which I am making my statements, WHICH I HAVE COVERED SEVERAL TIMES IN THAT IF THE ONLY THING YOU DO IS QUEST AND NOTHING ELSE, NO PVP, NO GROUPING, NO SPACE MISSIONS IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO OUTLEVEL ANYTHING OR SKIP ANYTHING IN THE GAME BUT THE GROUP CONTENT AND THAT THE QUESTING, NOT LEVELING, IS ON THE RAILS IF ALL YOU DO IS QUEST.

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JaredKorry posted:

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Admitting that I know absolutely nothing about SWTOR and going on what Gutter and other people have said, it doesn't seem like questing is as linear as Jacon is trying to portray.

I don't think anyone will dispute that questing from 80-85 in WoW is extremely "on the rails" linear. You can *not* quest anywhere in a particular zone unless you complete the "starter" quests in that zone and each quest hub in the zone has to be unlocked by doing certain quests. (This is basically how it works out in TOR)

It seems to me that what Jacon is considering linear questing is the class storyline for a particular class(nope, not just class quest, all questing). Considering that is is a class storyline and tells the story of your class through the game, that "should* be linear. Other posters have mentioned being able to access different quest hubs without having to unlock them by doing quests in a certain order. I'm a bit confused about this. lol (The confusing aspect of this is the simple fact that people are making statements without presenting facts or context)

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