wowplayer321
Posts:
288
Registered:
May 13, '08
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 285
User ID: 1,296,786
|
Subject:
Panda talent changes, see the trees
|
I am looking at the next xpak as the forest and only see the trees.
With the radical reduction in talent choices it's obvious (to me) that in reducing the player choices they are trying to eliminate the "cookie cutter" builds listed on so many sites. Unfortunately, they have now only handed out the one build. I could not come up with a better example of "cookie cutter" than what they will be forcing on all their customers with the Panda pak.
This simplifies their supposed balancing of classes to "brain dead simple". Ours too as your only concern will be do you want a PvP build or a PvE.
The couple choices you are allowed to make could easily be done with a check box at the top of the menu so that you only have to look at that menu once in your toons life.
I mainly play Hunter's. I don't have the reflexes (or interest) to compete in PvP so it's a real sign of desperation when I resort to doing PvP.
For the past month I have been doing nothing but PvP.
It has become apparent that PvP in WoW is so broken that nothing but a complete redesign of the entire game would be needed to allow all the classes an equal chance against each other.
The only 1 vs 1 matchup that see as somewhat equal is a Priest vs a Druid. Their ability to repair/absorb damage makes them basically unkillable 1 vs 1. Even 3 vs 1 takes many minuets to kill one of those classes and I have seen a Druid hold out against 5 and eventually he just ran off and the 5 of us could do NOTHING to stop him.
A Druid is as Fair and Balanced as Fox News (their slogan).
Blizz is finally completely eliminating the "dead zone" of Hunters ranged weapon. While it's about time they got rid of this limitation I don't see this as making any difference what-so-ever in both PvP and PvE. In PvP if an opponent gets that close to you then you are a "dead man walking". In PvE if your pet is not holding aggro then you deserve to die.
Nothing being added to the forest is anything more than fluff or a small tweak. Even the talent change is nothing but a tweak because virtually everybody took the exact same choices whether they looked up a build or simply looked at the choices. Many of the choices offered to you were so trivial you can not even call them choices so Blizzard cherry picked the most useful few and you will now be forced to chose between them.
A new race? Pfft, whatever.
A new healer class? Obvious. They added a Tank 4 years ago, a Healer class was next no matter how long they took to finally poop one out.
I cannot begin to express my current dis-satisfaction with Blizzard and their shill (stooge?) Ghostcrawler. I can only hope that my account expiring just before SWTOR goes live and the bitter comment I as allowed (forced) to make upon canceling will give them cause for reflection on continuing down their path of self destruction.
-----signature-----
(none)
|
|
Link to this post
|
The_Korrigan
Title: Scrub Buster
Posts:
21,660
Registered:
Jul 17, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 21,292
User ID: 255,861
|
Subject:
Panda talent changes, see the trees
|
Good post.
Can't even be called talent trees anymore... more like talent toothpicks.
-----signature-----
SWTOR: 50 Jedi Shadow (Tank), 50 Sith Marauder (Annihilation).
LOTRO: Lifetime account, playing very casually.
WoW: Both accounts canceled for now.
GW2: Future Warrior.
|
|
Link to this post
|
Alpha_Swift
Posts:
5,821
Registered:
Jul 16, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 5,744
User ID: 697,744
|
Subject:
Panda talent changes, see the trees
|
The_Korrigan posted:
Good post.
Can't even be called talent trees anymore... more like talent toothpicks.
I thought the same thing, but I called them talent twigs.
-----signature-----
-
-
-
Can someone please answer Fermi's Paradox?
|
|
Link to this post
|
Kriegprojekt
Posts:
2,653
Registered:
Apr 12, '10
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 2,591
User ID: 1,390,814
|
Subject:
Panda talent changes, see the trees
|
Alpha_Swift posted:
The_Korrigan posted:
Good post.
Can't even be called talent trees anymore... more like talent toothpicks.
I thought the same thing, but I called them talent twigs.
Talent specks?
Harharhar!
-----signature-----
http://www.immortal-guild.com/ Deepstrike Server Milkman - Guardian Bard
|
|
Link to this post
|
GrimTempest
Title: Board Manager
Anime Aikousha
Posts:
37,523
Registered:
Dec 21, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 36,478
User ID: 567,005
|
Subject:
Panda talent changes, see the trees
|
you really do have to wonder...with the popularity of rift, and that popularity at least in part due to rifts amazing talent system, what in the world would make blizzard think less choices and essentially kindergarten versions of the talent trees would appeal to people.
we really have to call this what it is. they have an obsession with a fictional thing called "balance" and they're doing this in an attempt to make their goals of balance easier. balance doesn't exist, putting some effort into trying to come close to it is productive but becoming obsessed with it above all else is hubris.
then again, what do i know. the majority of my encounters with other players in game are with people who seem to have the iq of a flea. they may just be right and this might appeal to the majority of the players. it won't appeal to the old school more hardcore gamers like most of us but lets face it we're really a minority in WoW. the game has been getting dumbed down for a while now so i think we have to assume blizzards target market is people who want to mash some buttons, make some big numbers, and not do much thinking. console games followed this evolution too. early console games were tough. by the time the sixth gen consoles rolled out everything had been dumbed down and replaced with gimmicks or graphics.
-----signature-----
MyAnimeList - http://myanimelist.net/profile/Grimtempest - Chaotic Neutral - El Psy Congroo
|
|
Link to this post
|
Sprawl-zero1eye-
Title: IGN Vault Staff
Reziztance iz Futile
Posts:
53,263
Registered:
Jun 28, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 52,657
User ID: 692,733
|
Subject:
Panda talent changes, see the trees
|
|
I've never played an MMO that tries so hard to have it so exactly balanced.
-----signature-----
Mirkwood MUD, OneEye IvoryFang, Lord of the VampireZ (Retired) AC Frostfell, Clan Z - Lvl 239 Grief Dagger (Retired) WoW Lightbringer Alliance, Z Guild - Lvl 85 Combat Rogue (Retired) Making iOS Apps these days at http://zsprawl.com/iOS
|
|
Link to this post
|
GrimTempest
Title: Board Manager
Anime Aikousha
Posts:
37,523
Registered:
Dec 21, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 36,478
User ID: 567,005
|
Subject:
Panda talent changes, see the trees
|
me either. its become an obsession thats a drag on the game. its natural for some classes to be better dps than others, usually the slightly lower dps class makes up for it in versatility or is better at pvp or has higher survivability...etc. you can't balance all those factors. i mean if you balance rogue to do the same dps as paladin why does the paladin get higher armor or heals? does vanish make up for that? not usually. what about ranged vs melee? ranged is almost always preferred since its survivability is higher. basically there are too many variables and even if they exactly balance all the dps it will still be unbalanced due to things like ranged vs melee or specific abilities like heals or higher armor.
a smart dev tries to keep things fairly close but does not obsess over it. blizzard has written the how-to book on obsessing over balance. they are long past the need to either replace the entire team or whichever lead dev or devs are setting the current tone.
-----signature-----
MyAnimeList - http://myanimelist.net/profile/Grimtempest - Chaotic Neutral - El Psy Congroo
|
|
Link to this post
|
Quazimortal
Title: The One and Only
Posts:
17,806
Registered:
Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
|
Subject:
Panda talent changes, see the trees
|
|
I've never understood the way Blizzard approaches balance in WoW. They try to make every single class and spec completely equal to each other when you just simply can't do it like that and ever achieve what you are wanting. You have to use some kind of rock, paper, scissors method to achieve any semblance of balance in a multi-class MMO and Blizzard apparently can't figure that out.
-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.†~Leopold Stokowski
|
|
Link to this post
|
Sociop
Posts:
402
Registered:
Dec 8, '09
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 402
User ID: 1,378,656
|
Subject:
Panda talent changes, see the trees
|
Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:
I've never played an MMO that tries so hard to have it so exactly balanced.
Yet it is not even remotely balanced.
-----signature-----
(none)
|
|
Link to this post
|
Ugh_Lancelot
Title: Ooo...bouncy!
Posts:
5,492
Registered:
Jun 17, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 5,446
User ID: 689,383
|
Subject:
Panda talent changes, see the trees
|
Sociop posted:
Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:
I've never played an MMO that tries so hard to have it so exactly balanced.
Yet it is not even remotely balanced.
It was more fun when they weren't trying so hard to balance things for eSports. If people wanted to be just like everyone else, they'd go play a FPS game.
-----signature-----
WoW and DAoC - Too many alts to count
Charter Member - Altaholics Anonymous
|
|
Link to this post
|
Cawlin
Posts:
20,754
Registered:
Feb 22, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 20,667
User ID: 1,030,445
|
Subject:
Panda talent changes, see the trees
|
Sociop posted:
Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:
I've never played an MMO that tries so hard to have it so exactly balanced.
Yet it is not even remotely balanced.
This.
They're not changing the talent trees for balance btw, they're changing them to make the game simpler for the casuals.
-----signature-----
If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips.
Everyone playing WoW knows everything about playing two classes: 1) their own and 2) Hunters
|
|
Link to this post
|
-Myk-
Title: Not a War Criminal
Posts:
14,900
Registered:
Nov 15, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 13,669
User ID: 991,592
|
Subject:
Panda talent changes, see the trees
|
Cawlin posted:
Sociop posted:
Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:
I've never played an MMO that tries so hard to have it so exactly balanced.
Yet it is not even remotely balanced.
This.
They're not changing the talent trees for balance btw, they're changing them to make the game simpler for the casuals.
Your jihad against the non-hardcore players is pretty funny.
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
The_Korrigan
Title: Scrub Buster
Posts:
21,660
Registered:
Jul 17, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 21,292
User ID: 255,861
|
Subject:
Panda talent changes, see the trees
|
-Myk- posted:
Your jihad against the non-hardcore players is pretty funny.
Sorry, but it's not an anti-hardcore "jihad" at this point. It's just a jihad against making the game so dumbed down even a 5 year old with severe mental retard problems can play it.
-----signature-----
SWTOR: 50 Jedi Shadow (Tank), 50 Sith Marauder (Annihilation).
LOTRO: Lifetime account, playing very casually.
WoW: Both accounts canceled for now.
GW2: Future Warrior.
|
|
Link to this post
|
-Myk-
Title: Not a War Criminal
Posts:
14,900
Registered:
Nov 15, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 13,669
User ID: 991,592
|
Subject:
Panda talent changes, see the trees
|
|
I do not believe I quoted you so.......... I wouldn't expect you to understand that though.
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
The_Korrigan
Title: Scrub Buster
Posts:
21,660
Registered:
Jul 17, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 21,292
User ID: 255,861
|
Subject:
Panda talent changes, see the trees
|
-Myk- posted:
I do not believe I quoted you so.......... I wouldn't expect you to understand that though.
If you want private conversations with Cawlin, I suggest private messages. Otherwise, expect other people to read your posts and react to them too. With over 14k posts here, I was assuming you had understood that...
Until then, refer to Cawlin's signature.
-----signature-----
SWTOR: 50 Jedi Shadow (Tank), 50 Sith Marauder (Annihilation).
LOTRO: Lifetime account, playing very casually.
WoW: Both accounts canceled for now.
GW2: Future Warrior.
|
|
Link to this post
|
TruthyID
Posts:
365
Registered:
Jul 7, '10
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 365
User ID: 1,397,686
|
Subject:
Panda talent changes, see the trees
|
Cawlin posted:
Sociop posted:
Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:
I've never played an MMO that tries so hard to have it so exactly balanced.
Yet it is not even remotely balanced.
This.
They're not changing the talent trees for balance btw, they're changing them to make the game simpler for the casuals.
Except that they've stated explicitly that they're changing it to make balancing the classes easier. In making it easier for themselves to balance they've also happened to make the talent system simpler, however the driving force behind the move was to make their jobs easier.
-----signature-----
(none)
|
|
Link to this post
|
Cawlin
Posts:
20,754
Registered:
Feb 22, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 20,667
User ID: 1,030,445
|
Subject:
Panda talent changes, see the trees
|
-Myk- posted:
Cawlin posted:
Sociop posted:
Yet it is not even remotely balanced.
This.
They're not changing the talent trees for balance btw, they're changing them to make the game simpler for the casuals.
Your jihad against the non-hardcore players is pretty funny.
LOL really?
There a thousand bitch posts from all of you casuals about how casual the game has become and is going to become for every one that I make...
I do like reminding you whiners though that this is what you whined for for 4 years and now when Blizzard is making it too easy even for you folks, you don't like it... lulz.
Maybe this will help you relax a little:
-----signature-----
If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips.
Everyone playing WoW knows everything about playing two classes: 1) their own and 2) Hunters
|
|
Link to this post
|
Cawlin
Posts:
20,754
Registered:
Feb 22, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 20,667
User ID: 1,030,445
|
Subject:
Panda talent changes, see the trees
|
TruthyID posted:
Cawlin posted:
Sociop posted:
Yet it is not even remotely balanced.
This.
They're not changing the talent trees for balance btw, they're changing them to make the game simpler for the casuals.
Except that they've stated explicitly that they're changing it to make balancing the classes easier. In making it easier for themselves to balance they've also happened to make the talent system simpler, however the driving force behind the move was to make their jobs easier.
They have no interest in actually balancing classes. That's just something they keep on saying in order to keep people from just all playing Death Knights lol.
-----signature-----
If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips.
Everyone playing WoW knows everything about playing two classes: 1) their own and 2) Hunters
|
|
Link to this post
|
-Myk-
Title: Not a War Criminal
Posts:
14,900
Registered:
Nov 15, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 13,669
User ID: 991,592
|
Subject:
Panda talent changes, see the trees
|
Cawlin posted:
-Myk- posted:
Cawlin posted:
[quote=Sociop]Yet it is not even remotely balanced.
This.
They're not changing the talent trees for balance btw, they're changing them to make the game simpler for the casuals.
Your jihad against the non-hardcore players is pretty funny.
LOL really?
There a thousand bitch posts from all of you casuals about how casual the game has become and is going to become for every one that I make...
I do like reminding you whiners though that this is what you whined for for 4 years and now when Blizzard is making it too easy even for you folks, you don't like it... lulz.
[/quote]
You're the one crying like a bitch, anytime there is something you do not like you bitch and moan about casuals. Here is a clue for you.....casual players are not the problem with WoW. You meltdown all the time and show just what an elitist jackwagon you are. Not one signal player can impact what changes blizzard makes to WoW. If you happen to read the latest from Greg "douchebag" Street you may just find the clue you are so much need of.
Keep up your jihad though, it is the only thing a zealot like yourself is capable of.
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
Quazimortal
Title: The One and Only
Posts:
17,806
Registered:
Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
|
Subject:
Panda talent changes, see the trees
|
|
Bitching and moaning about casuals? Damn and here I was thinking he was doing something more akin to laughing at all the casuals, not bitching and moaning about them.
-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.†~Leopold Stokowski
|
|
Link to this post
|
Cawlin
Posts:
20,754
Registered:
Feb 22, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 20,667
User ID: 1,030,445
|
Subject:
Panda talent changes, see the trees
|
I average less than a half a post per day on this board for the past year lol. The vast majority of those posts have been me laughing my ass off at various incarnations of casuals and self-entitled n00bs on this board. I do not bitch and moan about you scrubs, I laugh at you and laugh at how your crying hasn't stopped once in the history of this game. You cried when it was too hard, for it to become more casual. Now that Blizzard has given you what you want, you're crying because it's too easy...
-----signature-----
If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips.
Everyone playing WoW knows everything about playing two classes: 1) their own and 2) Hunters
|
|
Link to this post
|
-Myk-
Title: Not a War Criminal
Posts:
14,900
Registered:
Nov 15, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 13,669
User ID: 991,592
|
Subject:
Panda talent changes, see the trees
|
|
You bitch about it and bringing up post counts is just another bitch move. Not only a bitch but a lying bitch at that, because I haven't cried once about how hard/easy the game is. Keep on your jihad though.
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
Cawlin
Posts:
20,754
Registered:
Feb 22, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 20,667
User ID: 1,030,445
|
Subject:
Panda talent changes, see the trees
|
-Myk- posted:
WHHAAARRRRGGLLGLLLLBARRRRGGGLLLLAAAAAADERPDERP 
Maybe this will help with your butthurt.
-----signature-----
If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips.
Everyone playing WoW knows everything about playing two classes: 1) their own and 2) Hunters
|
|
Link to this post
|
Ugh_Lancelot
Title: Ooo...bouncy!
Posts:
5,492
Registered:
Jun 17, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 5,446
User ID: 689,383
|
Subject:
Panda talent changes, see the trees
|
Cawlin posted:
They're not changing the talent trees for balance btw, they're changing them to make the game simpler for the casual developers.
FTFY.
Also, lol @ the picture of your hemorrhoid pillow.
-----signature-----
WoW and DAoC - Too many alts to count
Charter Member - Altaholics Anonymous
|
|
Link to this post
|
-Myk-
Title: Not a War Criminal
Posts:
14,900
Registered:
Nov 15, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 13,669
User ID: 991,592
|
Subject:
Panda talent changes, see the trees
|
Cawlin posted:
I just make shit up and throw it at the wall hoping it sticks.
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
Cawlin
Posts:
20,754
Registered:
Feb 22, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 20,667
User ID: 1,030,445
|
Subject:
Panda talent changes, see the trees
|
Ugh_Lancelot posted:
Cawlin posted:
They're not changing the talent trees for balance btw, they're changing them to make the game simpler for the casual developers.
FTFY.
Also, lol @ the picture of your hemorrhoid pillow.
I don't own any myself, but I do like to try to be helpful to the folks on this board.
-Myk- posted:
I'm herping my derp
-----signature-----
If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips.
Everyone playing WoW knows everything about playing two classes: 1) their own and 2) Hunters
|
|
Link to this post
|
The_Korrigan
Title: Scrub Buster
Posts:
21,660
Registered:
Jul 17, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 21,292
User ID: 255,861
|
Subject:
Panda talent changes, see the trees
|
-----signature-----
SWTOR: 50 Jedi Shadow (Tank), 50 Sith Marauder (Annihilation).
LOTRO: Lifetime account, playing very casually.
WoW: Both accounts canceled for now.
GW2: Future Warrior.
|
|
Link to this post
|
Wolfpaw_We
Title: WoW Vault Staff
Posts:
14,203
Registered:
Mar 22, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 13,901
User ID: 77,927
|
Subject:
Panda talent changes, see the trees
|
Ugh_Lancelot posted:
Cawlin posted:
They're not changing the talent trees for balance btw, they're changing them to make the game simpler for the casual developers.
FTFY.
This is very close to how I feel about it.
Also, many of us casuals were not whining and crying for an "easier" game. We were whining and crying for a game that you can play casually, i.e. in smaller bits and less dedication. Content that you could consume alone, with a few good friends or a pickup group. Reasonable avenues of high-end progression that do not require a large dedicated guild or massive raids. A splendid many things actually happened to take the game in that direction without sacrificing complexity (and I use the term very lightly in regard of WoW).
Who am I kidding? I am not casual. I am (or was) a time-deprived hardcore gamer with an extreme detest for raiding.
-----signature-----
(none)
|
|
Link to this post
|
Kriegprojekt
Posts:
2,653
Registered:
Apr 12, '10
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 2,591
User ID: 1,390,814
|
Subject:
Panda talent changes, see the trees
|
|
I know someone got my joke.
-----signature-----
http://www.immortal-guild.com/ Deepstrike Server Milkman - Guardian Bard
|
|
Link to this post
|
Ashmaele
Title: Pastor of Muppets
Posts:
19,662
Registered:
Jan 15, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 15,903
User ID: 612,352
|
Subject:
Panda talent changes, see the trees
|
Wolfpaw_We posted:
Also, many of us casuals were not whining and crying for an "easier" game. We were whining and crying for a game that you can play casually, i.e. in smaller bits and less dedication. Content that you could consume alone, with a few good friends or a pickup group. Reasonable avenues of high-end progression that do not require a large dedicated guild or massive raids. A splendid many things actually happened to take the game in that direction without sacrificing complexity (and I use the term very lightly in regard of WoW).
Who am I kidding? I am not casual. I am (or was) a time-deprived hardcore gamer with an extreme detest for raiding.
IMHO I think WoW was already like that. I guess maybe I'm naive to an extent because the only MMO I'd played before WoW was DAOC, which was certainly NOT casual friendly (at least when I played). I can't imagine ever hitting max level in that game solo. But it is not only possible in WoW, it's fairly easy to do. I don't see any need to dumb it down any more.
-----signature-----
I had a dream. It was an incredible dream. When I awoke, I had a huge mess to clean up. 
|
|
Link to this post
|
