Ravynmagi posted:

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Well think I'm done with this. I had no idea it would be so linear. Just walking down a path being spoon fed with really no actual choices. Kinda feels like Warhammer Online in space.

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Acao posted:

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I am enjoying it. No surprises that it is linear as that is the norm in all games today. The story is extremely good though which I expected coming from Bioware.

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Caoilin posted:

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i like the questing leveliing, but that's because i was a ranger in daoc and no one wanted to group with me 1-50, but as soon as i hit 50 everyone wanted me in the group to either be their bait or to scout. and when you're forced to be on a waiting list to level up because your class isn't ideal for an aoe grinding fest, you learn to hate that sort of leveling and everyone involved in it. daoc would have been 90000000x better if you could level through pvp alone. that would have made pvp classes fun all the way through the game.

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Mortalis3 posted:

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I dont see what the difference was in the leveling compared to SWToR with the exception that DAoC didnt "guide" you like many modern MMO's tend to

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Mortalis3 posted:

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So, I guess I dont understand all the bashing going on. I think many of us are just getting older and wiser to the genre.

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Marzuk posted:

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The genre is about addiction not fun. Its about monotonously repeating recycled content for hundreds of hours simply because there is a reward attached. People often confuse this for fun, but the minute the reward disappears the behavior stops, revealing the actual motivation in play.

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Caoilin posted:

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i like the questing leveliing, but that's because i was a ranger in daoc and no one wanted to group with me 1-50, but as soon as i hit 50 everyone wanted me in the group to either be their bait or to scout. and when you're forced to be on a waiting list to level up because your class isn't ideal for an aoe grinding fest, you learn to hate that sort of leveling and everyone involved in it. daoc would have been 90000000x better if you could level through pvp alone. that would have made pvp classes fun all the way through the game.

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Seffrid posted:

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That may be true for some, but not for all. Not everyone is driven by reward. Not everyone plays MMOs in order to "max their gear", or "max their dps" etc. Some of us do actually play for fun.

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Marzuk posted:

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Like I said, remove the reward and the behavior ceases. Take WoW dungeons. They now give no xp or loot. How many people do you think will do them?

Daily quests no longer provide gold. How many will do them more than once?

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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:

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Marzuk posted:

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Like I said, remove the reward and the behavior ceases. Take WoW dungeons. They now give no xp or loot. How many people do you think will do them?

Daily quests no longer provide gold. How many will do them more than once?

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In today's world, yeah you're probably right. However, do you know how many quests I ran in AC just to do it or show someone who hasn't seen it (or 50)? Literally hundreds and hundreds.

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Otarala posted:

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That makes soccer or any number of scoring/winning games not fun though, ie Monopoly, Chess, etc etc.

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Otarala posted:

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"There are *many* games that you can play that have no reward. Ever played Tetris?"

Tetris has rewards in the form of a score and progress. Simply removing levels or scores would drastically change how long people played it. Soccer has persistent aspects in the form of score tables.

You're trying to argue for an absolute difference where none really exists and trying to refine 'fun' down to a single construct. Just isnt that simple.

Otara

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Marzuk posted:

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TLDR: How many people keep their job after winning the lottery?

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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:

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Marzuk posted:

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TLDR: How many people keep their job after winning the lottery?

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I work to survive. I play games to have fun. The former is not optional. The latter is very much so.

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Bendar. posted:

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Just being able to duel log and run my buffbot without one, or both, of my accounts going LD was a bit of an achievement to me lol

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dramprar posted:

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<snip>It was simple mob killing grinding. <snip>

<snip>great pveing<snip>

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dramprar posted:

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Youre forgetting one detail. I didnt say anything about grping up to pve. i prefer to solo pve actually but i hate doing the linear questing or not having the option to pve in other ways.

what im saying is you have options whereas most WoW like games now you do not.

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The_Korrigan posted:

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dramprar posted:

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<snip>It was simple mob killing grinding. <snip>

<snip>great pveing<snip>

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That game would fail so hard it's not even funny. You are a tiny minority, and that I'm 100% sure of. Do you really think you're gonna make a successful game in 2010+ by forcing people to group up, find a spot, and grind mobs for hours? Well, you can have your opinion... but don't have any illusions about the success of such a game.

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Dresler posted:

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Sadly it was also those types of games which I think built the community the way it did. I loved grouping up with people and heading to the Spraggon Den, where at the good XP spots there based on spawns you might die at any moment. Can't remember the name of the first dungeon with the hags and spiders and such.

I actually really enjoyed getting my first character to level 50, it really was an achievement. Think I had close to 30 days /played on my nightshade. Had such a good time making friends etc. Now since you can pretty much level to max by yourself everybody is jerks to each other (prolly not the only reason but I think it is a large one).

I think the one difficulty with that system at the same time is as the game ages. There aren't many low levels anymore, not many people to group with etc. In the early ages of the game though? Man that is the way to go.

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dramprar posted:

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Imagine if a DAOC 2 came out with upgraded graphics, stories, same great RVR and same great pveing. Rest of the MMO's would go out of business!!

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Seffrid posted:

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dramprar posted:

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Imagine if a DAOC 2 came out with upgraded graphics, stories, same great RVR and same great pveing. Rest of the MMO's would go out of business!!

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Like they did with the first one?

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-Mithan- posted:

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DAoC sucked.

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-Mithan- posted:

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DAoC sucked.

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-Mithan- posted:

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DAoC sucked.

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Kordirn posted:

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A staff circle jerk.

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Tai-Daishar_MT posted:

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-Mithan- posted:

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DAoC sucked.

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I am well known for having this same opinion. In fact, I have a few stalkers as a result

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Otarala posted:

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"That was intense, and you cant even comment if you couldnt hang past a couple months."

You cant comment on sewage diving until you've done it for a few months. Or maybe I can, because I generally know what I like and dont like.

Different people like different games. Thats all it comes down to.

Otara

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Teck_II posted:

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shadowbane = best pvp game ever

That was intense, and you cant even comment if you couldnt hang past a couple months. Yes it did lack in quests and leveling and such was boring as hell but that wasnt what the game was about. It was politics and strategy and the best group pvp and battles in any game where it actually counted when you lost you lost your town that you worked month's to build.

I was lucky to play with the best group of players ever in the game. We routinely beat the odds 4:1+ cause we worked insanely effciently and were months ahead of others in understanding mechanics and how to overcome those odds. Those were great times.

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heiromancerdrackus posted:

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Teck_II posted:

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shadowbane = best pvp game ever

That was intense, and you cant even comment if you couldnt hang past a couple months. Yes it did lack in quests and leveling and such was boring as hell but that wasnt what the game was about. It was politics and strategy and the best group pvp and battles in any game where it actually counted when you lost you lost your town that you worked month's to build.

I was lucky to play with the best group of players ever in the game. We routinely beat the odds 4:1+ cause we worked insanely effciently and were months ahead of others in understanding mechanics and how to overcome those odds. Those were great times.

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Were you with Shadow Syndicate? Because if so, this is laughable. If I'm mistaken, my apologies.

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Ravynmagi posted:

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Ultima Online. Probably the first game I'd truly call an MMO that I loved. I started out playing a good guy, hunting down Dread Lords and other bad players. Then my neighbor pissed me off or something, I whacked him, then just went postal on everyone else and ran around killing innocents, turned out to be quite a lot of fun. And PvP felt like it had so much meaning. You die, the winner gets to loot your stuff (assuming someone doesn't steal it first). Freaking awesome. You could even rob other people's homes if you caught them with their house key. And they did such an excellent job with the criminal system. It allowed for player run justice and helped curb random mass grief killings that some PvP games have issues with.

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Ravynmagi posted:

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Sadly Trammel came about, killed PvP.

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The_Korrigan posted:

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Ravynmagi posted:

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Sadly Trammel came about, killed PvP.

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As much as I agree UO pre-Trammel was a lot of fun, Trammel still saved the game, players were leaking like mad to other games like EQ because they got tired of the ganking.

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Otarala posted:

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The real problem was what plagued DaoC as well - tons of PvE focussed players coming to a supposedly PvP focussed game and becoming the primary customers.

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The_Korrigan posted:

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Otarala posted:

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The real problem was what plagued DaoC as well - tons of PvE focussed players coming to a supposedly PvP focussed game and becoming the primary customers.

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Not sure about that, but if true, doesn't it ring a bell for you?
PvE players are the vast majority, and while many will also attend PvP as a "side game", most won't play a game that doesn't have good PvE first.

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-Mithan- posted:

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I don't really care about PVP in Star Wars because it will be the usual lame crap that every other game has now (battlegrounds/scenarios).

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The_Korrigan posted:

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Otarala posted:

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The real problem was what plagued DaoC as well - tons of PvE focussed players coming to a supposedly PvP focussed game and becoming the primary customers.

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Not sure about that, but if true, doesn't it ring a bell for you?
PvE players are the vast majority, and while many will also attend PvP as a "side game", most won't play a game that doesn't have good PvE first.

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CreepyHands posted:

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Could you even dodge anything in DAoC pvp?

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The_Korrigan posted:

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-Mithan- posted:

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I don't really care about PVP in Star Wars because it will be the usual lame crap that every other game has now (battlegrounds/scenarios).

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You mean, beside Ilum (faction vs faction entire planet dedicated to world PvP) and the FFA zone on Tatooine?

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