Author Topic: Weapon Skills Update for February
-Marie- 
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Subject: Weapon Skills Update for February
http://forums.ac.turbine.com/showthread.php?t=53246


Greetings.

We have been reviewing player feedback for quite some time and we are in the process of designing some changes for the February update in response to player feedback and suggestions. We are looking for early feedback on these changes and posting this early design well in advance of our February update so we have plenty of time to make adjustments.

Player Goals and Requests

We have rounded up player feedback and the players have, over time, put forth the following goals and suggestions.

~ Address the racial imbalance in templates.
~ Allow a greater variety of weapons to be useful.
~ Allow greater freedom in player templates and racial choices.

We realize there are many questions about the small details arising from this post. Our goal for this initial description is to get feedback on the larger design and the ideas presented without micromanaging the specifics.

Racial Skills

Racial Skills have had balance issues essentially since the game launched. New players are currently able to choose a race and already have an inferior template even as they enter the training academy. Our goal is that races retain their initial flavor, but in the end no race is the superior choice as all races can achieve template parity.

All current racial skills will be removed.
All races will get Arcane Lore automatically trained for free
All races will get 2 additional skill credits to spend at creation
All races will get 6 additional points added to the specialization cap
Skill/Attribute Reset NPCs and the Temples will have their timers/uses reset to allow players to easily adjust to the new changes.
Races will still have their free starting augmentation.
Races will gain a free augmentation that provides a small damage boost to one weapon type. Higher level characters can work toward changing this augmentation to any other weapon type so any racial choice can ultimately achieve any template. Characters will be able to change to alternate weapon types that may not be included in the preferred weapon type of any race.

Melee Skill Consolidation and Missile Skill Consolidation

Due to the varying costs of melee skills, several choices are ignored due to being underpowered. Also, unlike Two Handed, Magic, and Missile combat, each skill is missing/weak in certain elements where as the other combat types have access to all damage types. We feel two handed is a great example of how a melee skill should work.

All of the melee skills will be condensed into 2 new skills.
One Handed Combat: A 6/6 melee combat skill based off Strength/Coordination.
One Handed Finesse: A 4/4 melee combat skill based off Quickness/Coordination.
Weapons of all types (mace, sword, dagger) will drop for each weapon skill.
Most one handed weapons will use the One Handed Combat skill.
Some weapons (stiletto, rapier, etc.) will be designated as finesse weapons and use the One Handed Finesse skill.
One Handed Combat weapons will be balanced against each other and competitive with one handed swords.
As you might expect from the lower skill cost, finesse weapons will do lower damage than One Handed Combat weapons.


Missile weapon skills will also be consolidated.

All of the missile skills will be condensed into Missile Combat: A 6/6 missile combat skill.
All missile weapons will use the Missile Combat skill.
Bows, crossbows and thrown weapons will be balanced against each other and competitive with Bow.


With the consolidation of melee skills and missile skills we want to make sure we preserve a sense of flavor depending on the weapon you choose.

All melee and missile weapon types will have uniqueness to their stats. Daggers, for example, might all be multi strike, and axes might have lower damage but bigger crits.
The racial augmentation will allow each race to favor a specific weapon type by giving the character a small damage boost with that type of weapon. Higher level characters can work to change this augmentation to favor any weapon type.
Characters can only have one weapon type augmented at any one time.
Existing characters will get one free change to the weapon augmentation of their choice.


Shield Skill

At the same time as the consolidation skills we will be adding a 2/2 shield skill that uses Strength.

This skill will determine how much al/aegis effect you gain from equipping a shield.
Specializing in Shields and leveling your skill will provide the full benefit to top end shields.
Training in Shields and leveling your skill will provide a lesser benefit.
The idea is that Two Handed Combat, Weapon and Shield Combat, and eventually Two Weapon Combat will all have similar 8/8 total cost. These styles will be balanced against each other.


Skill Adjustments:

Some skills could use a bit of an adjustment to make them more useful.

Missile and Magic Defense formulas would be adjusted to mirror the offensive skills.
We will be doing a balance pass on all creatures to rebalance Missile and Magic Defense skills to reflect these new values. As a result this should fix defenses on creatures to more consistently reflect the relative power of the creature.
We will be doing a balance pass on all creatures to rebalance melee and skill attack skills to reflect these changes. As a result this should fix offensive values on creatures to more consistently reflect the relative power of the creature and make Missile Defense more useful.
Gearcrafting would be folded into Item Tinkering with no increase in cost to Item Tinkering.


New Skills:

Although we are not ready to discuss these with players, the February patch would bring in new skills that would enhance different aspects of combat. Part of the goal is to give the height/power attack options more of an effect. To give a slight tease into what we are considering, a 2/2 Dual Wield skill may be on the table.

 

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-Foxy- 
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Subject: Weapon Skills Update for February
hmmm hmm hmmm

 

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Ixussss 
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Subject: Weapon Skills Update for February
Outstanding ideas I know the graphics are outdated but Turbine has always been good about adding content and making changes. I thought of Asheron's Call as their test bed for the other online games they have. It has outlasted so many other games and I bet one day it will get an graphics update just because of the massive amount of game content it has. You think of how shallow most game content has become AC has like 12 years of information. One day I will play again at least I have the comfort of knowing someone leveled my accounts while I have been gone.

 

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Hot_Shot_TD 
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Subject: Weapon Skills Update for February
Interesting and very exciting stuff.

One thing that pops into my head is this: Alot of players play many characters like myself. We have spent time leveling up, questing, gearing, auging etc all different types of melee skills. Like uaer, a axer, a sworder, a macer, etc. But if all of these skills can now be used by one skill what is the point in having 8 characters?

I'll try not to judge the new skill update prior to playing it to harshly. I have been very pleased with updates over the past couple of years.

The idea of dual wielding has me thrilled!

 

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gundel.gaukelei 
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Subject: Weapon Skills Update for February
Hot_Shot_TD posted:
But if all of these skills can now be used by one skill what is the point in having 8 characters?


What was the point before? If they all are Melees just with different Weapon Skills they were all basically the same to begin with, at least from a gameplay perspective. With the changes you can still diversify in templates choices without having to waste that beautiful e.g. Epic Staff Defender Set Piece just because Staff sucks.

Personally the racial changes save me from looking at my Sho Mage as being gimped compared to a Undead/Empyrean one so i'm quite excited about these changes.

P.S.: And yeah, i kinda bite my behind for throwing away all those epic thrown weapon rings too, but that's part of change.

 

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RuhelosSeele 
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Subject: Weapon Skills Update for February
Head on over to the official forums to see the most recent update - there are now two threads with various different options they are looking at implementing. One thread is basically the original idea (nixing all the weapon skills), and the other is for keeping weapon skills and just changing some things.

It's a fun read...

 

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Chef_Wubbie 
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Subject: Weapon Skills Update for February
blah blah blah blah blah...
Make Staff the ultimate weapon like it should have been from day one.

 

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Hot_Shot_TD 
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Subject: Weapon Skills Update for February
gundel.gaukelei posted:


If they all are Melees just with different Weapon Skills they were all basically the same to begin with, at least from a gameplay perspective. .


Are you new to Asheron's Call? Have you never played say an Axe character than a sword character?

If you look at all the different melee skills currently there is HUGE differences from one to the other. But lets compare just two of the many many melee skills: Sword Skill and Axe Skill as these will both according to the Feb Update Option 1 will now be considered the same skill in "Heavy Weapons: A 6/6 one handed melee combat skill based off Strength/Coordination."

1. Skill Cost ~ Currently the difference in Skill Costs Allows Huge differences in Templates. This is a very interesting and unique feature of Asheron's Call. It allows the Player to truly customize and build their character as they choose. They are simply not just a "melee" character like every other mmorpg out there. If you choose axe over sword you are granted with 4 more skill credits to spend as you wish. Above "wubbie" is the perfect example of someone who has broke free of the mold and created a very interesting template.
For Example:
- Sword costs 8 to train, 8 to spec = total 16 credits
- Axe costs 6 to train, 6 to spec = total 12 credits

2. Damage Types ~ Some loot gen. weapon types can not do specific damage types
For Example:
- Sword has no blugd loot generated weapon.
- Axe has no pierce loot generated weapon.

3. Max Damage & Modifiers
- Sword 36-60
- Axe 30 - 50

4. Visual & Animation - All melee skills when compared to each other have very different weapon types and animations.
- Sword on fast is a quick stabbing motion
- Axe on fast is still a swinging motion
- A weeping sword looks much different than a weeping axe.

5. Quests ~ Different melee skills have special unique weapons that only that skill can use. There are literally 100s of very cool quest weapons that have been added over the span of 10 years that are to be used specifically by a unique melee damaging skill type. A very great history.
For Example:
- Sword has Sword of Lost Light, Demon Swarm Sword, Replica BloodScorch, Sword of Lost Hope, Ashbane Etc Etc.
- Axe has Silifi of Crimson Stars, Hammer of Frore, Quadruple-bladed Axe, Bonecrunch's Hammer, Spine Axes (from crafting), Etc. Etc.


No - Currently all Melees with different weapon skills are not the same from a gameplay perspective.....




Check out Option Number 2: http://forums.ac.turbine.com/showthread.php?t=53265

I like it much more.

 

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gundel.gaukelei 
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Subject: Weapon Skills Update for February
Hot_Shot_TD posted:

Are you new to Asheron's Call? Have you never played say an Axe character than a sword character?



Actually i play the game since March 2000, so I'm fully aware of all the subtle differences you pointed out. I still think that changing all the different skills to the basic Magic/Missile/Melee distinction is long overdue. And yes, greatly simplifying, i don't care if a melee whacks with a stick, pokes with a sword or buries his Axe in a mob.

The different damage types on melee weapons will still exist after the planned update, and there will be an Augmentation boosting one particular weapon type on your toon, so there's still plenty of ways to distinguish your 8 Melees if you feel the need for it. I really don't see why people go all "end of the world" on the AC forums.

The option #2 you linked is certainly easier to implement and will cause less uproar in the community i suppose, personally I'm still in favour of the bolder option #1.

 

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Volthorn 
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Subject: Weapon Skills Update for February
I feel like they need to not change anything.

 

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Chef_Wubbie 
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Subject: Weapon Skills Update for February
@Hot - Only because I knew I would always be gimped and I set out to be the best gimp I could be happy
Tradeskills are the ultimate power...
well up until you get bored and find yourself not logging in alot sad
then you retire for a while...
then you sometimes hit the board and bother people...
like this

happy

3 School, Spec Staff, Spec Melee D, all tradeskills.
I am still a beast happy

 

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WARLORD OF THINGS YOU CAN FOLD, SPINDLE AND MUTILATE
126th er 140th er 160th er 190ish er 215 er 265ish er 275th Level Tradeskill Main
STOP LAUGHING, I MAKE GIMPED LOOK HAWT!
No really, a Chef who is 275... and I kill stuff too
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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