Sprawl-zero1eye-
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Muffled a bit about the new class talent revamp? Give it a whirl on Wowhead's MoP talent calculator!
http://www.wowhead.com/mists-of-pandaria-talent-calculator
Oh... feel the complexity. The choices!! No two Monks will ever be alike.
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Sprawl-zero1eye-
Title: IGN Vault Staff
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Fear my awesome Rogue build!!!
http://www.wowhead.com/mists-of-pandaria-talent-calculator#rdE
Can you tell I'm disappointed?  I like talents...
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Mirkwood MUD, OneEye IvoryFang, Lord of the VampireZ (Retired) AC Frostfell, Clan Z - Lvl 239 Grief Dagger (Retired) WoW Lightbringer Alliance, Z Guild - Lvl 85 Combat Rogue (Retired) Making iOS Apps these days at http://zsprawl.com/iOS
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Arcilite_I
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Only one thing I can say after looking at the Paly "tree": 
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Quazimortal
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Arcilite_I posted:
Only one thing I can say after looking at the Paly "tree":
For real! That is exactly how my reaction went.
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We provide the music, and you provide the silence.†~Leopold Stokowski
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Alpha_Swift
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If this is real, I'd be inclined to unsubscribe right now.
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Rill_of_WE
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I'm curious to see how this all will turn out. On the one hand, I like it and on the other I'm worried about it all working out.
As I understand it, if you choose to be a sub rogue you'll get most of the old talents as trained skills. And those skills will be different from the skills you'd learn if you were assassination or combat. Some skills will be class-based that all specs will get but only a few. That leaves the talent tree system to function more like a get-bonus-utility-spells thing to customize your character with rather than what it is today.
I LIKE having utility and that kind of choice. I DON'T like Blizzard changing the game so much from what it was.
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Cawlin
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Heh... wow. Garbage.
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If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips.
Everyone playing WoW knows everything about playing two classes: 1) their own and 2) Hunters
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Ugh_Lancelot
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What's funny is that it looks like they're going to have a harder time balancing this than the Cata trees, just judging by what I see in the hunter and druid trees.
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Kriegprojekt
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My elemental shaman link:
[link=http://www.wowhead.com/mists-of-pandaria-talent-calculator#sjL
][/link]
Actually, its pretty sad.
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-Aleister-
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Rill_of_WE posted:
I LIKE having utility and that kind of choice. I DON'T like Blizzard changing the game so much from what it was.
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Kriegprojekt
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It would be nice if each talent had a cooresponding sub talent tree of three sub talents you could pick two from in levels between the talent tree choices. I wouldnt care if the sub talents were just fluff either. This new talent system is even worse than what we have with Cata.
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JaconKin
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My hunter build.
http://www.wowhead.com/mists-of-pandaria-talent-calculator#hfn
Looked at the Pally spec and I don't understand why one of the Talent chains basically has two tanking abilities. You have sacred shield and ardent defender on the same line, no ret pally ability there.
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Ferrydust
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I think the new trees are ok. It did get rid of some of the clutter and get to the talents that we wanted to take. I like the way we can choose anything now too.
Sorry, I like it.
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NukeMage
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A lot of folks thought they had choices with the previous talent trees; Really, the only choices you had were terribad and required-to-group.
Not sure if this new system will be any better or worse than previous versions. Time will tell how it all works out.
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Cawlin
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NukeMage posted:
A lot of folks thought they had choices with the previous talent trees; Really, the only choices you had were terribad and required-to-group.
Not sure if this new system will be any better or worse than previous versions. Time will tell how it all works out.
The Cata system has very limited choices to be sure. The new system will take those limited choices you have, bundle them up into one button click you call your "specialization" within which, all subtle differences and playstyle differences will be homogenized.
They've then given you 6 tiers of three either absolutely mandatory or totally inconsequential choices of crap, akin to choosing your character's hairstyle.
This is going from bad (Cata) to worse.
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NukeMage
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If I were Blizzard, I would whip up some talent trees a la Rift and just let it go. I see that Blizzard is "trying" to "help" by reducing "unnecessary" talents and choices, however it is just pissing people off.
Though this will cause the uninformed/bad players to be even worse than they currently are, and even less likely to be able to complete content.
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Cawlin
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NukeMage posted:
If I were Blizzard, I would whip up some talent trees a la Rift and just let it go. I see that Blizzard is "trying" to "help" by reducing "unnecessary" talents and choices, however it is just pissing people off.
Though this will cause the uninformed/bad players to be even worse than they currently are, and even less likely to be able to complete content.
From another board:
Azure-TheBlueOne posted:
They really should just go back to the old WoTLK trees, with 10 more levels built in, imo.
This.
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Spookysheep
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Pure garbage. I guess they want to lose 2 million with the xpac, see if they can double their record?
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Azure-TheBlueOne
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If they're not going to go back to the old system, then they really need to add back in spec trees that add little improvements. And then you can get your major abilities from the talent trees.
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Ugh_Lancelot
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Cawlin posted:
Azure-TheBlueOne posted:
They really should just go back to the old WoTLK trees, with 10 more levels built in, imo.
This.
I'd buy that for a dollar.
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sarnsereg
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I am fairly dissapointed with blizzard over the talents... ok.. not fairly.. REALLY dissapointed and on the verge of anger over it.
i can't stand this... "now that other guy thats the same spec as you won't be identical to you"
WRONG, FLAT OUT EFFING WRONG BLIZZARD.
the reason? elitist jerks... or people like them. they will figure out the "optimal" choice for every class/spec and that will once agian be EXACTLY what every character of that class/combo will go.
also.. as a druid i am hating our options.... although i do really like the idea that being a moonkin i can take a talent that turns 80% of my int into agi so that i can switch and tank if i want without respeccing/regearing.
although i guess without talents they won't be giving us a "dual spec"
and so umm.. what happens to glyphs? they were a lot of upgrading for skils and some of those were for skills you only got if you picked up a talent.
what happens to all those utility talents.. like spirit turns to hit for moonkin/shadow priest/etc, or the ones that increase damage of certain spells or reduce damage taken, or lowers cooldowns of certain spells, or gives you more mana regen? etc. etc.
anyways... i got the annual pass so assuming that means i get into the MoP beta(and not the "next" expansion thats not announced for 2 years) then i will just have to wait and find out.
edit: AND ANOTHER THING.......... why is it the only time i feel like i have a choice in talent is when all three are such garbage it doesn't matter which one i take?
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Ugh_Lancelot
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sarnsereg posted:
edit: AND ANOTHER THING.......... why is it the only time i feel like i have a choice in talent is when all three are such garbage it doesn't matter which one i take?
Blue one this is Wildcard. We've got another person revealing sensitive strategic data on forums. Send out a capture team. Over.
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Sprawl-zero1eye-
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Real choice includes the ability to make the wrong one.
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Rezzinu
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Sorry, but I cant help myself. I'm  at those of you who took the bait of the 1 year subscription plan.
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NukeMage
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Rezzinu posted:
Sorry, but I cant help myself. I'm at those of you who took the bait of the 1 year subscription plan.
Why? MoP will probably launch at the very end of those 12 months, if not slightly after. So regardless of what MoP turns out to be on release I know what I am getting for the majority of those 12 months. I had already planned on buying D3 so this deal probably saved me a few bucks anyways.
Also, the subscription is not a huge amount of money in the first place. If you think someone throwning away 15 bucks a month is LOL worthy, well then good luck to you lol.
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The_Korrigan
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The dumbing down of character development continues...
And yeah, I also laugh at those who got screwed with a 12 month sub plan. Nice move from Blizzard to lessen the negative impact of those changes and of the new games which come soon too.
By the way...
http://www.torguild.net/calculator/
SW:TOR may be a "WoW clone in space", but at least it still features full fledged talent trees which haven't been dumbed down and nerfed into oblivion. It may be "more of the same", but of the good (old) same.
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WhiteSkull86
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LOL just showed my 10yo the new talent system and she goes ""retarded"" and walked away.
She feels insulted as much as i do its so funny.
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The_Korrigan
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The more I look at this... the more I compare MoP talents with SW:TOR talents... and I won't even mention GW2 character development...
Are Blizzard committing suicide?
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WhiteSkull86
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The_Korrigan posted:
The more I look at this... the more I compare MoP talents with SW:TOR talents... and I won't even mention GW2 character development...
Are Blizzard committing suicide?
could be they are doing it on purpose so when titan comes out they can have it like the old days and hope to draw in most of wow players.
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Arcilite_I
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So this thread is where Korrigan turns from a WoW fanboy to a SW:ToR fanboy.
Nice, glad I was here to witness it.
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Sociop
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Don't like it at all, it looks just like a console game feature, which is likely where they are headed with all the dumbing down, morons probably think consolization will be their saving grace.
Like many others I too will be unsubing when this crap hits the fan, I mean expac gets released.
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The_Korrigan
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It's always amusing to see a troll fail. I haven't even pre-ordered SW:TOR yet.
I may switch from "WoW fanboi" to "SWTOR fanboi", who knows... if the game is good... but some people never change, they were asshats, they remain asshats 
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Arcilite_I
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The_Korrigan posted:
It's always amusing to see a troll fail. I haven't even pre-ordered SW:TOR yet.
I may switch from "WoW fanboi" to "SWTOR fanboi", who knows... if the game is good... but some people never change, they were asshats, they remain asshats
At least I have convictions, fence hopper.
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Arcilite_I
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Conviction?
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Fedup23
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Rezzinu posted:
Sorry, but I cant help myself. I'm at those of you who took the bait of the 1 year subscription plan.
If you have plans to play D3 and still dabble with WoW even a tiny bit, its actually quite economical . Even if the xpac is going to be your stepping off point.
If you KNOW you are done with WoW forever then this deal wouldn't interest you at all.
I guess I don't see anything LOL worthy about saving some $$.
Not trying to be negetive .. am I missing something though? Maybe I interpreted the deal wrong.. 
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MinionX-DW
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Heh...
Rift's Character customization puts WoW's to shame now.
http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html
Simply go look at that, and feel sad that WoW's has been converted into 6 choices.
And here's that sad thing, not only does Rift have that for customization, They have a planar attunement as well, and while you can get everything in planar attunement, it would take a while... and since there is going to be 3 levels of each plane.. it would take a long while.
Basically, if ya like Old WoW, you play Rift, if ya like Dumbed down WoW, you play WoW.
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Auenwing
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Fedup23 posted:
Rezzinu posted:
Sorry, but I cant help myself. I'm at those of you who took the bait of the 1 year subscription plan.
If you have plans to play D3 and still dabble with WoW even a tiny bit, its actually quite economical . Even if the xpac is going to be your stepping off point.
If you KNOW you are done with WoW forever then this deal wouldn't interest you at all.
I guess I don't see anything LOL worthy about saving some $$.
Not trying to be negetive .. am I missing something though? Maybe I interpreted the deal wrong..
Don't think so.
Been checking on the board looking for the kind of info that's just come out (and posting too much, including this one )
From a marketing viewpoint, if Blizzard had kept WotLK intact, and then created WoW2 with all the new Cat changes forward (instead of gutting/redefining an existing game within itself in an effort to reduce maintenance/overhead costs?), I suspect they could have kept some subscription numbers. Everytime I share more of the latest info, the responses I get from guildmates and others that have left after Cat came out are: "Omg, I got out at the right time!" (See above poster's comment regarding 10 year old's reaction to new talent trees.)
Once again, unfortunately, the phrase "dumbing down" applies. New monk graphics and talent trees. With new, "simpler" approaches to play, it appears that Blizzard thinks there is an uptapped market to farm (and so once again, as they did with Vanilla), is lowering the "perceived" barriers to entry. Unless, according the conspiracy theories, Blizzard actually IS trying to kill their own game. (Still wondering who's in charge and why they are still there...)
It would be nice to think there was something worth coming back to.
And yes, a lot of us would LOVE to have a viable monk class in an MMO again. Not sure this is it. Blizzard may have over-estimated the pull the monk-class concept would have; implementation matters.
Really hope these changes go well for everybody still playing and looking forward to more fun!
edits because like Arc, Eye Khant speel four carp twoday.
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Quazimortal
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Arcilite_I posted:
At least I have convictions, fence hopper.
What were you convicted of?
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Arcilite_I
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Quazimortal posted:
Arcilite_I posted:
At least I have convictions, fence hopper.
What were you convicted of?
lol my VN rap sheet is hardcore yo
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vn_cuch
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Wow, just wow. Is this the sum of their best efforts?
Back in the start of wow, they excelled thanks to being able to take other ideas, polish and deliver an significant improvement on the existing field.
I guess when you come from being the underdog, to being the kingpin (so to speak), it becomes harder to innovate and "take risks" on real evolution and improvement. tis a pity
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Arcilite_I
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vn_cuch posted:
Wow, just wow. Is this the sum of their best efforts?
Back in the start of wow, they excelled thanks to being able to take other ideas, polish and deliver an significant improvement on the existing field.
I guess when you come from being the underdog, to being the kingpin (so to speak), it becomes harder to innovate and "take risks" on real evolution and improvement. tis a pity
When you bring in $150mil a month, ingenuity and creativity become commodities purchased from the local community college.
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vn_cuch
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Arcilite_I posted:
When you bring in $150mil a month, ingenuity and creativity become commodities purchased from the local community college.
I hate to agree with you...ruins a perfectly good day. But I do agree with you on this.
The bigger the business, the less innovation/risk/break through ideas can be created. Innovation becomes a "process" drummed out in office cubes...rather than an organic growth.
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Foojo
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I can see where they came up with this. They probably talked about having to balance old skills with new skills every time they increase the level limit, so they decreased the number of talent skills figuring everyone just goes for the "good" ones anyway.
It looks way too simple. Another thing missing is the skills given automatically to classes, and if there are even spec trees any more. Very limited looking.
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Ferrydust
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One of the reasons why I like this new setup is because it doesn't take a mathematician to figure out your spec. Don't get me wrong, it was fun pouring over my spec of choice and comparing it to top arena players builds and then trying to figure out why they took 1 thing over another. Was it really worth the .001% chance of whatever? That was fun for a while.
But then it became clear that my builds were never as good as theirs even though it looked like it should be. I would try many builds. My own and others and compare. Many times I wouldn't be able to figure out why their builds were better but they were. 1/2 the time I figure it was probably a bug with a particular talent causing it to act in a way it wasn't supposed to. Anyway, it left me with very few of my own choices anyway.
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Rezzinu
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Fedup23 posted:
Rezzinu posted:
Sorry, but I cant help myself. I'm at those of you who took the bait of the 1 year subscription plan.
If you have plans to play D3 and still dabble with WoW even a tiny bit, its actually quite economical . Even if the xpac is going to be your stepping off point.
You wont get your free copy of D3 until your yearly subscription has been paid in full. It's in the FAQ's of this yearly subscription deal.
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Azure-TheBlueOne
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Now we're all laughing at you. Oh how the tables turn.
And you're right, it is in the FAQ.
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Rezzinu
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Azure-TheBlueOne posted:
Now we're all laughing at you. Oh how the tables turn.
And you're right, it is in the FAQ.
So you're laughing at who? 
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Azure-TheBlueOne
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When will I receive Diablo III?
Diablo III will be available to download via your Battle.net account when the game is released.
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Fedup23
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Rezzinu posted:
Fedup23 posted:
Rezzinu posted:
Sorry, but I cant help myself. I'm at those of you who took the bait of the 1 year subscription plan.
If you have plans to play D3 and still dabble with WoW even a tiny bit, its actually quite economical . Even if the xpac is going to be your stepping off point.
You wont get your free copy of D3 until your yearly subscription has been paid in full. It's in the FAQ's of this yearly subscription deal.
You can play D3 it at release..IF you cancel WoW before your 12 months.. access to D3 is cut off.
AFTER your 12 months .. you are free to play D3 forever.. even without having a WoW sub.....
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Sin_of_Onin
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The new approach to talents should help a lot. The old system is busted.
They still have a lot of work to do to make it really shine but the approach is superior.
In modern MMOs it really isn't dumbing down to take a bunch of forced choices away from a player. The game isn't about doing math for most people already.
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Sprawl-zero1eye-
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Some of the best times I had were in Asheron's Call playing a wacked out melee thrown weapon fighter.
Why did I do it? Not cause it was superior, not because it was some quick way to level. I did it cause it was wacky and fun.
Yes, many people in AC gravitated towards the various template specs, like Og Mage. However, many of us made choices, choices we knew were "wrong" because we could and because it was fun.
Take the choice away, even if the choice seems obvious, and it still leaves the player with no choice at all.
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_Taebo_
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Wow, so at 90, you will have only 6 talents.
At least in SWTOR you have a base class which at 10 can become one of 2 Advanced Classes (in game everyone calls it AC). Each one of those has it's own 3 talent trees like WoW has now.
So a Jedi Knight at 10 can be a Guardian or Sentinel. The Guardian has it's own 3 talent trees as does the Sentinel. So you'll have a tank tree, DPS tree, etc. Very similar to WoW.
Not sure if I like the MoP talent set up.
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Spookysheep
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This expansion is truly designed for the downs syndrome crowd.
Did not realize they were such a big market now.
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Arcilite_I
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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:
Some of the best times I had were in Asheron's Call playing a wacked out melee thrown weapon fighter.
Why did I do it? Not cause it was superior, not because it was some quick way to level. I did it cause it was wacky and fun.
Yes, many people in AC gravitated towards the various template specs, like Og Mage. However, many of us made choices, choices we knew were "wrong" because we could and because it was fun.
Take the choice away, even if the choice seems obvious, and it still leaves the player with no choice at all.
Ahhh, I miss my Jedi monk spec...Spec UA/War/Assess Creature
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Arunne
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Spookysheep posted:
This expansion is truly designed for the downs syndrome crowd.
Did not realize they were such a big market now.
Corkey loves wow!
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Sin_of_Onin
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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:
Some of the best times I had were in Asheron's Call playing a wacked out melee thrown weapon fighter.
Why did I do it? Not cause it was superior, not because it was some quick way to level. I did it cause it was wacky and fun.
Yes, many people in AC gravitated towards the various template specs, like Og Mage. However, many of us made choices, choices we knew were "wrong" because we could and because it was fun.
Take the choice away, even if the choice seems obvious, and it still leaves the player with no choice at all.
WOW has never really been like that and certainly wasn't like that in CAT.
WOW gameplay has a couple different modes of gameplay, 1) dungeons, 2) PVP, and 3) Solo/small group PVE. You are basically complaining about options for mode #3. Something that has been a problem since they started weighting talents towards the top of the tree and having core talents deep within the talent trees. By moving the core talents out of that process and within the specialization choice the potential for interesting choices is once again introduced.
Whether they meet this potential is another matter. The game has been built up around a much different system.
If Blizzard was designing an MMO from scratch I think they would avoid the tall talent trees of WOW and use a system of sets like this system uses.
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Arunne
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:
Some of the best times I had were in Asheron's Call playing a wacked out melee thrown weapon fighter.
Why did I do it? Not cause it was superior, not because it was some quick way to level. I did it cause it was wacky and fun.
Yes, many people in AC gravitated towards the various template specs, like Og Mage. However, many of us made choices, choices we knew were "wrong" because we could and because it was fun.
Take the choice away, even if the choice seems obvious, and it still leaves the player with no choice at all.
WOW has never really been like that and certainly wasn't like that in CAT.
WOW gameplay has a couple different modes of gameplay, 1) dungeons, 2) PVP, and 3) Solo/small group PVE. You are basically complaining about options for mode #3. Something that has been a problem since they started weighting talents towards the top of the tree and having core talents deep within the talent trees. By moving the core talents out of that process and within the specialization choice the potential for interesting choices is once again introduced.
Whether they meet this potential is another matter. The game has been built up around a much different system.
If Blizzard was designing an MMO from scratch I think they would avoid the tall talent trees of WOW and use a system of sets like this system uses.
Reminds me of the good old days of wow when they guy in my guild was complaining about how underpowered druids are. And we were like whats your spec, and he is like im a druid, and were like yeah feral, resto, balance? He was like i dont know i heal sometimes i fight. Dude was 60 and hadnt spent a freaking talent point He had no clue what talents were. We almost died laughing.
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-Peo-
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
WOW has never really been like that and certainly wasn't like that in CAT.
WOW gameplay has a couple different modes of gameplay, 1) dungeons, 2) PVP, and 3) Solo/small group PVE. You are basically complaining about options for mode #3. Something that has been a problem since they started weighting talents towards the top of the tree and having core talents deep within the talent trees. By moving the core talents out of that process and within the specialization choice the potential for interesting choices is once again introduced.
Whether they meet this potential is another matter. The game has been built up around a much different system.
If Blizzard was designing an MMO from scratch I think they would avoid the tall talent trees of WOW and use a system of sets like this system uses.
Uhh, how is 6 talent choices specialization? Especially when each tier is like bland as hell.
Basically, there is no more specialization come MoP. Blizzard is just flat out lazy and wants to make everyone the same. No matter how you spin it, this is exactly the case. Did you even look at the choices for each tier? They aren't interesting, they are just the game old garbage talents, only now, you get 6, instead of 31. I am waiting for the all in one skills just called "Tank" and you press the tank button and mobs stick to you like glue. You just press the "tank" button over and over.
Also, if they stayed away from the original talent trees, the game would have started out the crapfest it is now.
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Kriegprojekt
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If you think about it, the only time you will really choose to differentiate yourself from another of your class (just barely) is at level 10 when you choose your class specific role. The 6 tiers of talents are supposed to be more generic than anything considering each role can pick any of them.
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Well, yea, that's becuz Cata talent selection is garbage too.
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Shenron_
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i hope this is some sort of troll joke. that talent system is total crap...so little customization. the one we have now is bad enough...i wish we had a more customizable talent system like previously. i miss when gear wasn't the only way to build a character.
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heiromancerdrackus
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This new system really is terrible. Less choices are not what players wanted. Don't throw me Bone Shield as a DPS DK and expect me to consider it a 'choice'.
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TruthyID
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These talent trees only offer the appearance of choice. Most of the tiers offer you one of three talents that do the same thing just with slightly different mechanics. For instance there will be 3 self heals to choose from but they each work slightly differently. No matter what choices you make, all possible builds give you the same basic types of utility talents. You'll have a mobility talent from tier one, a self heal from tier two and so on.
I'm not convinced that these talent trees are going to give players the meaningful character customization options that they're asking for. Instead I think it's going to be something that players are going to have to spend a lot of time screwing with to min/max their characters for a given scenario. For pvp they'll need one set of talents, for trash it's another and for bosses yet another set. Sounds like another chore from Blizzard.
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Shenron_
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it bothers me that many of the talents i like are on the same level, and for other levels all 3 suck. for rogue.
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