Sin_of_Onin posted:

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That is because it is a stupid game mechanic.

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Tych2 posted:

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It's to easy to interrupt a caster and keep them locked down. There are many fights we get into that my bainshee is totally locked down for the entire fight and all I can do is run out of range until it clears then get back into the fight if its still going on.

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Pseudo-Mod posted:

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Tych2 posted:

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It's to easy to interrupt a caster and keep them locked down. There are many fights we get into that my bainshee is totally locked down for the entire fight and all I can do is run out of range until it clears then get back into the fight if its still going on.

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But when your Bainshee isnt locked down, she does massive damage to the enemy. Which is why they single you out and try to engage you to begin with.

That's how it is supposed to work.

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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No it is stupid.

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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If you have classes that fight at range and those that fight at melee the game is really about what is done to stay at range or get within range. DAOC changes gameplay from being about button mashing to being about strategy. It is awesome.

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Pseudo-Mod posted:

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Choices

If the skill of interrupts is to great for you, there is always the option of rolling a hybrid class that casts magic without interrupts.

No other mmo offers such a plethora of classes(48 and counting) with such diverse combination of gameplay and skill mechanics.

DAOC offers a class for everyone

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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So the problem really just boils down to there being too many buttons to push in other games?

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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Tych2 posted:

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I am not sure I understand your point SoO. What would you do differently?

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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Tych2 posted:

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I am not sure I understand your point SoO. What would you do differently?

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I would not build a game on the premise of contact or no contact.

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Mastara posted:

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You people are trippin. DAoC is way better than these other MMO's out now. They are all WoW clones to cater to the pve whores that suck at real PVP.

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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If you have classes that fight at range and those that fight at melee the game is really about what is done to stay at range or get within range. DAOC changes gameplay from being about attacks to being about running around. It is stupid.

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Yossarian_42 posted:

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DAoC fails immeasurably on its movement alone. The fact that a caster could stop and still get spell failure was ludicrous. You were basically stuck moving like a wooden soldier on a grid.

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Yossarian_42 posted:

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DAoC fails immeasurably on its movement alone. The fact that a caster could stop and still get spell failure was ludicrous. You were basically stuck moving like a wooden soldier on a grid.

Anybody who has played WoW and seen how characters can move in a real game and can still stand to touch DAoC is beyond my comprehension.

I hate to keep using stupid WoW as an example, but the casting system in that game is so much better. Melee on a caster slows down their casting but doesn't completely stop it while melee characters have specific abilities to stuff spells. Not only that but when a melee IS on a caster they can actually move and try to get away rather than stand in place and die.

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Walker_ID posted:

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so u would build a game where people stare at each other?.......got it

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kedz20xx posted:

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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If you have classes that fight at range and those that fight at melee the game is really about what is done to stay at range or get within range. DAOC changes gameplay from being about attacks to being about running around. It is stupid.

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Soo...you're saying you got raped in DAoC. Got it.

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YouMightSeeMe posted:

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DAoC isn't about 1 v 1.

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usernameYukishiro1 posted:

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Right. I don't think anyone denies that DAOC has fun, interesting group combat. But the combat mechanics are incredibly simplistic and shallow on the individual level and that takes the fun out of the game when you don't have a good group to play with.

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Pseudo-Mod posted:

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Collision detection is nothing but a term elite fools like to use as if they really know what they are talking about.

Collision detection has never contributed anything worth wild that has benefited gameplay in any meaningful way.

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Walker_ID posted:

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i find that the only people who have a problem with daoc mechanics....are the people are were horrible at the game

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Walker_ID posted:

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i find that the only people who have a problem with daoc mechanics....are the people are were horrible at the game

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GrilledCheez posted:

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apparently so, because I see plenty of casters and non casters in both games.

The fantasy you have created in your mind where DAOC was the perfect test of skill because you feel you were good at it doesn't exist in reality. It was a mediocre game at best and the fight mechanics changed drastically during the course of its existence. There is no series of facts that you can state that prove your subjective opinion, AND it is pretty stupid based on how much the core mechanics changed over time.

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GrilledCheez posted:

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Please many changes changed the impact of the interrupt system over times. You guys are monumentally sad to defend this so hard. You're like those 30 year old ex high school football players defending the glory years, only your glory years were spent hiding on bridged in a video game for fifteen minutes so you could stab a 12 year old to death then spit on his corpse.

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GrilledCheez posted:

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there were plenty of changes. one I know for sure about was the interrupts they specifically added to certain classes or certain abilities for classes that couldn't close quickly. They changed the abilities of classes constantly with interrupts in mind, both offensively and defensively. Apparently you are too big a moron to understand this.

Your moranness is pretty legendary here, but do you honestly believe no game changes changed the way a class dealt with interrupts? Everything from DPS to CC impacted interrupts. Retard.

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Walker_ID posted:

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i asked you to provide one example of your words...a change in the core interrupt mechanics



and your reply was...giving classes interrupts....interrupts they specifically added to certain classes or certain abilities for classes that couldn't close quickly




it's clear you don't understand what a core mechanic is because twice in a row now when asked about core changes....you mention character balance changes

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GrilledCheez posted:

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HAHAHAHA interrupts are COMPLETELY about class balance nimrod.

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Walker_ID posted:

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now....once again....idiot....give me one example of how that core mechanic has changed....ever


take your time

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Pseudo-Mod posted:

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In fact, they are the most diverse and difficult to master. Everything from strafing around your target for positional chains to knowing when to blow your instas, DAOC combat is the most challenging of them all.

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Sea_of_inK posted:

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Walker_ID posted:

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i find that the only people who have a problem with daoc mechanics....are the people are were horrible at the game

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QFT

People like WoW casting mechanics better because it's easy mode. Bad players. DAoC casting made proper tactics and group coordination much more important. Don't overextend!

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Yukishiro1 posted:

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WOW ruined world of MMOs...everything is dumbed down ever since

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Yukishiro1 posted:

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Wow combat is much more intricate and skill-intensive than daoc combat on the individual level. That's just a fact that can't be argued with.

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Yukishiro1 posted:

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Did you ever even play wow?

Wow has been dumbed down a bit in the last expansion but even so there's way more intricacy and skill involved in wow 1v1 than daoc 1v1.

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Yukishiro1 posted:

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If you only played for a few months you presumably never did any real max-level pvp. So your opinion is pretty much worthless.

Small-scale pvp in wow is incredibly intricate and skill-based. You need far better reflexes and anticipation to pvp in wow well than you do in daoc. The only area where daoc requires more skill is in spatial positioning but that plays a much smaller role in a 1v1 duel. 1v1 daoc mechanics are pathetically simplistic.

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Sin_of_Onin posted:

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Walker_ID posted:

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lvl 70 was the max at the time and there was plenty of nonsensical button mashing that was endured...wow's combat mechanics catered to noobs

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Yukishiro1 posted:

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If you only played for a few months you presumably never did any real max-level pvp. So your opinion is pretty much worthless.

Small-scale pvp in wow is incredibly intricate and skill-based. You need far better reflexes and anticipation to pvp in wow well than you do in daoc. The only area where daoc requires more skill is in spatial positioning but that plays a much smaller role in a 1v1 duel. 1v1 daoc mechanics are pathetically simplistic.

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Eternal_Midnight posted:

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Yukishiro1 posted:

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If you only played for a few months you presumably never did any real max-level pvp. So your opinion is pretty much worthless.

Small-scale pvp in wow is incredibly intricate and skill-based. You need far better reflexes and anticipation to pvp in wow well than you do in daoc. The only area where daoc requires more skill is in spatial positioning but that plays a much smaller role in a 1v1 duel. 1v1 daoc mechanics are pathetically simplistic.

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You can't compare WoW and DAoC PvP like that. Of course DAoC was somewhat simplistic in a 1v1 environment, because as most people forget, DAoC was designed for RvR, not 1v1. That's why people bitch about balance in DAoC, because the game wasn't ever intended to be balanced on a class by class basis. Classes that weren't intended to run around alone will of course be flawed in a 1v1 PvP situation. WoW, by contrast, has balanced their classes so that everyone is capable in just about every situation. This clearly lends itself to a smaller scale PvP, which is how the game is designed.

Realms were balanced, classes were not, except to ensure that similar skills between realms worked in the same way.

As far as hard interrupts for casters vs. soft, I'd tend to favour the WoW system. No class should be utterly incapable of using it's skill simply because someone is attacking them. Yes, there is a skill level required to be effective, but really that skill is necessary only because the system is flawed.

If the casting system was better, using more of a pushback system, most of the RA's put in place to compensate for they poor casting system wouldn't have been necessary.

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Yukishiro1 posted:

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Says another moron who never pvped in wow.

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Yukishiro1 posted:

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Uh, didn't we establish in another thread that you never seriously played wow?

This isn't even something we need to debate. Take a look at some of noone's duel videos from that link. Even if you don't know anything about wow pvp you can see there's a ton more going on in one of those than you'll ever see in a daoc 1v1 snoozefest.

Daoc duels are all pretty much the same. Either it's two melees lamely beating on eachother waiting for a reactionary or a chance to abuse run-through or it's two casters lamely trying to range eachother or quickcast a CC and unload or it's a caster vs a melee where the whole thing is about whether the caster can keep the melee at range long enough to unload. There is not much dynamism to them and there is very little in the way of reaction times required.

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AzureTyger posted:

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I used skill to win at Rift which takes no skill to win at. That's how i know wow sucks and DAOC is awesome.

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AzureTyger posted:

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I didn't play WoW because I am too awesome and unique for the MMO of the stinking masses, so I can't comment on its PvP. I played a lot of Rift PvP, however, and many peole claim it was a WoW clone, so I feel comfortable extrapolating that into general statements about WoW and its players. Casters were insanely stupidly easy to play in Rift (as was all PvP basically) as every class was designed to button mash around 3 or 4 win buttons on cool downs. As a result, fully 9 out of 10 Rift PvP players were atrocious, because the game was designed to take no skill. I took the survival skills I learned playing a caster in DAoC (positioning, kiting, battlefield awareness) and turned it into flat out domination in many PvP arenas while most casters stood toe to toe with tanks spamming their Instaheals and Soul Purges.

I hear what Yuki is saying about WoW's timed ability and counters, which frankly sounds like an awful game mechanic similar to Rift where it is all about whose win button is off cool down and whose guild helped them get omgpurples. I don't equate memorizing abilities and rotations with skill though. Actually I'd say that is a compete blight on MMOs based on my experience in Rift. I am pretty sure I'd be better than 90% of WoW PvP players within a few weeks in that case.

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Cawlin posted:

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DAOC was all about alpha strike and RA dumping - much less so than WoW's mechanics.

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AzureTyger posted:

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Cawlin posted:

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DAOC was all about alpha strike and RA dumping - much less so than WoW's mechanics.

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If you sucked or played a stealther I guess, but those two are one and the same thing.

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AzureTyger posted:

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What was the Cabalist "alpha strike" or uber RA dump?

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Cawlin posted:

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AzureTyger posted:

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What was the Cabalist "alpha strike" or uber RA dump?

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I have no idea lol, I stopped playing DAOC when WoW went live and had very little RvR time with it.

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Cawlin posted:

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I do know that I could pick off people at near max range with my cab by hitting one button which I think was a debuff, and then mashing another button which I think was a lifetap and keep on mashing it and before a target could reach me if they weren't gettting healed, they'd be dead. None of my other characters could do that, not even close.

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AzureTyger posted:

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I played a caster in Dark Age of Castalot and think I'm the 1337est MMO playe evar!!! and also that DAOC did casters RIGHT!

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AzureTyger posted:

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I am not sure what set you off, you said yourself above that you had limited DAoC experience. I know it can be threatening for the average player to hear comments from an elite level player, but take it as an offered opinion not a personal attack. I freely admitted that I am extrapolating onto WoW. Like I said, I've turned my nose up to it from day one, but I have played games that others who have played both characterize as similar and I know a lot of other A players who played WoW. And they pretty much universally describe it as shit.

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AzureTyger posted:

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It sounds about as stupid as Rift, the developers had to add a bunch of easy mode stuff so that fights can basically go on forever as you cycle through your 1,2,3,4 or maybe 2,3,4,1 for a different class and your 3 or 4 various Insta heals. I don't see how that has much to do with skill. It sounds like MMOs catering to crap players and a few good players turning it into something overpowered. DAoC went down the same road to a lesser extent with ToA and NF RA revamps - and immediately went in the tank.

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AzureTyger posted:

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I didn't play WoW because I am too awesome and unique for the MMO of the stinking masses, so I can't comment on its PvP. I played a lot of Rift PvP, however, and many peole claim it was a WoW clone, so I feel comfortable extrapolating that into general statements about WoW and its players. Casters were insanely stupidly easy to play in Rift (as was all PvP basically) as every class was designed to button mash around 3 or 4 win buttons on cool downs. As a result, fully 9 out of 10 Rift PvP players were atrocious, because the game was designed to take no skill. I took the survival skills I learned playing a caster in DAoC (positioning, kiting, battlefield awareness) and turned it into flat out domination in many PvP arenas while most casters stood toe to toe with tanks spamming their Instaheals and Soul Purges.

I hear what Yuki is saying about WoW's timed ability and counters, which frankly sounds like an awful game mechanic similar to Rift where it is all about whose win button is off cool down and whose guild helped them get omgpurples. I don't equate memorizing abilities and rotations with skill though. Actually I'd say that is a compete blight on MMOs based on my experience in Rift. I am pretty sure I'd be better than 90% of WoW PvP players within a few weeks in that case.

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AzureTyger posted:

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I am not sure what set you off, you said yourself above that you had limited DAoC experience. I know it can be threatening for the average player to hear comments from an elite level player, but take it as an offered opinion not a personal attack. I freely admitted that I am extrapolating onto WoW. Like I said, I've turned my nose up to it from day one, but I have played games that others who have played both characterize as similar and I know a lot of other A players who played WoW. And they pretty much universally describe it as shit.

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Cawlin posted:

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As for your "elite" and "A player" nonsense, don't kid yourself lol. You're talking about being "elite" in a game that died almost 10 years ago, and which at its peak had like 2% of the playing population of WoW. Congrats on being 1337 though, rofl.

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bstulic posted:

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Cawlin posted:

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As for your "elite" and "A player" nonsense, don't kid yourself lol. You're talking about being "elite" in a game that died almost 10 years ago, and which at its peak had like 2% of the playing population of WoW. Congrats on being 1337 though, rofl.

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As a general rule, I avoided former WOW players and looked for former DAOC players to play with in WAR, Rift, Age of Conan etc...
Worked wonderfully

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tenkly posted:

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DAOC is the bestest game since it's not WoW!

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tenkly posted:

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Pre set determined fights that are always the same thing every time? no thanks

open world RVR is light years ahead of arena style pvp. I find it boring.

keep in mind, I also play RoM which is exactly like wow, but with more class/skills. I hate the arena in that as well. I'm just not a fan of arena style pvp.. I never caught on to it. I'm not saying it should be abolished for good, but it's not nearly as interesting as world pvp.

all the power to those that want to play arena style, though.. I just prefer randomness.

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Yukishiro1 posted:

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It's sad that you tards are making me agree with Cawlin.

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Cawlin posted:

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I hate Arena PvP in WoW too. The closest thing to "World PvP" in WoW is the Alterac Valley battleground which back in the early days of WoW could (and did) quite literally go on for days at a time with 40 vs. 40 people and all the tower humping you could ever want.

I've noted in this thread already that WoW's PvP concept is terrible, but its mechanics are excellent. DAOC's RvR concept was the best EVER in an MMO, but it's mechanics were fkn terrible.

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bstulic posted:

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Cawlin posted:

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I hate Arena PvP in WoW too. The closest thing to "World PvP" in WoW is the Alterac Valley battleground which back in the early days of WoW could (and did) quite literally go on for days at a time with 40 vs. 40 people and all the tower humping you could ever want.

I've noted in this thread already that WoW's PvP concept is terrible, but its mechanics are excellent. DAOC's RvR concept was the best EVER in an MMO, but it's mechanics were fkn terrible.

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With some exceptions like bainshees and animists (before number of shrooms and CAE LOS issues were settled)
DAOC pvp scaled really well from 1vs1 to 400vs400...was same true for WOW?

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Yukishiro1 posted:

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Daoc is awful 1v1. The mechanics are set up to only really work when you've got groups. There's a reason 8v8 ended up being the gold standard.

Wow's mechanics are too complicated to work well in big group vs group fights. Once you get beyond about 5v5 in wow there is too much stuff going on for anyone to ever be able to keep track of it and react intelligently.

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Yukishiro1 posted:

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Wow's mechanics are too complicated to work well in big group vs group fights. Once you get beyond about 5v5 in wow there is too much stuff going on for anyone to ever be able to keep track of it and react intelligently.

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Ashmaele posted:

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thread confirmed HIV positive

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Mastara posted:

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DAoC's PVP mechanics have yet to be matched in any MMO imo. It trumps all other MMO's.

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