Author Topic: Dereth in Minecraft
TheDarkDecending 
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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
Thought I'd post this here as well, since I know some of you play Minecraft. After finding and repairing Jong89's Height Map Importer for Minecraft, I've been working on and off for the last few weeks on importing Dereth. At the present, I'm close to having results I'm willing to call final.

I've made another post on the AC General forum, here

And the current status of the project can be seen here

I've already submitted this to the ACVault News feed thinking it might interest the general community (And I don't want to spam every forum with similar messages).

Thumbnail of Isometric View Cartographer Render
More images in the Minecraft Forums link.

 

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Webscar 
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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
You're converting, not building, dereth?

That's pretty awesome. I'd totally download that map if it left the normal progression of blocks under the surface layers.

Not sure how you're getting the 3d map of dereth o.o

 

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aon_mixed 
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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
TheDarkDecending posted:


Thumbnail of Isometric View Cartographer Render



this link requires a log in

 

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TheDarkDecending 
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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
Ah, my bad aon. The images thumbnails are viewable in the Minecraft forum post, though.

Didn't realize linking to images like that would cause problems. I'll have to change the larger linked images on the MC forum post, too. Thanks for letting me know.


edit: Try this now: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v173/Eridyn/Minecraft/MCHeightMapImporter-Dereth/

 

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aon_mixed 
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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
drop the PNG on imgur.com, presto- hot link it here

 

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TheDarkDecending 
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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
Nice suggestion! Here it is - http://imgur.com/a/jR5sr

 

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Webscar 
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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
Need a spot to host the World File? I'd like to take a run through it tongue and happen to have some space online happy

 

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TheDarkDecending 
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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
I won't be releasing the actual Minecraft level for a bit yet. You can't tell from those images, but it's pretty buggy in game. For example, the roads have been populated as made of snow, instead of stone. Likewise, most of the coastal areas are a mix of snow, stone and sand. Additionally, the swamps, much of the southern mountains...

In short, there's a lot of work remaining to make the color map more transferable to a color pallet made up of solely:
Grass (Green), Stone (Grey), Snow (White), Water (Blue), Sand (Yellow), Clay (Red; I'm using a texture pack I've been working on since October 2010) and Obsidian (Black).

I'll post updates as progress is made, and I'll certainly be dropping by again when a draft of the map is ready for release. It'll need further work beyond fixing the color map, as well, as the height map importer has a tendency to ONLY populate the uppermost visible layer with the correct block. For example, wandering around Aerlinthe's obsidian areas in Minecraft, you'll find the island to be almost entirely made of stone. I'll want to fix those issues as well, probably meaning I'll have to go through in Creative Mode or somesuch to manually replace the blocks.

 

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Webscar 
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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
Ouch, that's pretty bad.

Thankfully there are a lot of mods out there for mass replacement of blocks; plus with the new creative mode it'll go by a lot faster.

GL with it. It looks cool

 

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BritonGuy 
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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
"Hail DarkDecending!", Briton exclaims.

BritonGuy hobbles over to your location. /examine

You have been examined by BritonGuy.

Britonguy says "We don't get many travelers around here..."

*Britonguy appears excited.

 

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Cao_Ren 
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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
Looks interesting.

 

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Bork_the_orc 
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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
Really neat; appreciate the effort. Keep us updated!

 

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-Kiande- 
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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
Cao_Ren posted:
Looks interesting.

 

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arekthorn 
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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
looks awesome!

 

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Bakuun 
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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
Just LOOKING at the map bring back memories happy

 

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TheDarkDecending 
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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
Webscar, is it possible to filter by type of block? For example, select a large area, then tell it to replace smooth stone and only smooth stone with obsidian?

I had thought this was possible using MCEdit but it appears that only allows filling a selected area; no ability to filter to only certain blocks types within that area.

 

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AkagiyamaMissile 
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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
Bakuun posted:
Just LOOKING at the map bring back memories happy



/sigh Same here.

 

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HeartView 
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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
AkagiyamaMissile posted:
Bakuun posted:
Just LOOKING at the map bring back memories happy



/sigh Same here.


So... anyone gonna try to clone AC in Minecraft? tongue

 

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Webscar 
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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
TheDarkDecending posted:
Webscar, is it possible to filter by type of block? For example, select a large area, then tell it to replace smooth stone and only smooth stone with obsidian?

I had thought this was possible using MCEdit but it appears that only allows filling a selected area; no ability to filter to only certain blocks types within that area.
Sneezy or Steel would be better people to ask. I've seen a lot of crazy stuff done with mods. There could be one out there specifically for that

 

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-Drack- 
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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
Looks awesome, and like it has been said... brings back memories. After I read this post yesterday I actually looking on youtube for some AC videos. I found one about the huge November patch last year. You can be olthoi that are basically already made characters, either melee or mage that start at lvl 180! I almost wanted to resubscribe but then I remembered over half the fun I had in AC was the community and friends I made. I wish AC didn't die down... I would of never quit if there were a lot more people.

 

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MyopicM2aces 
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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
Hat's off to you sir, I've been working on something similar recently... you are far along compared to me.

This was my first test render: http://i.imgur.com/0c0mD.jpg

I mapped each landblock as an 8x8 minecraft grid, using terrain data. Obviously it needs to be bigger than that to scale properly, and then properly smoothed....

Good job!

 

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Jennifer_the_Great 
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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
I've got a friend who's been working on the same thing as well - he lost his VN login information, but wants me to ask you how you created the actual heightmap?

 

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Aerlinthian 
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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
Can the Minecraft engine even support a world that big or we just talking about a map to look at? confused

 

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TheDarkDecending 
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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
MyopicM2aces:
Oi, that would be tedious. Congrats on even getting that far along. I'm cheating by comparison, by simply importing a heightmap. Other than adjusting the brightness and contrast to get the land to scale properly, all of my work has just been creating a workable colormap... [which is basically editing a 3600x3600 image pixel by pixel... aaaagh].

There was someone over on Darktide back in April, who was rebuilding Dereth at ~1:100 scale using MCEdit. He gave up on it, last I talked to him. I had already rebuilt Dryreach and had offered to construct the towns for him.



Jennifer_the_Great:
Back in 2003-2004 or so, a series of 3d renders of the Asheron's Call landscape (especially Aerlinthe and the Obsidian Plains) were posted by various individuals, using a heightmap created from the Cell.dat and Terragen. I believe Ganzor was the first to produce these. Here's one of the original threads: http://vnboards.ign.com/ac_general_board/b5141/63541236/r63576141/

And here's some of those old renders: http://sminc.bounceme.net/pub/photoalbum/Dereth/index.html

Oh, a much more complete gallery is still available on the long defunct Sucamarto's AC Heaven.
http://acheaven.buwahaha.com/
Left panel: TerraGen Image Gallery --- I HIGHLY recommend anyone who's not seen those renders take a look at them.

I downloaded all of the renders I saw posted, as well as the 2041x2041 greyscale heightmap and made a few renders of my own. Ever since losing all of my screen shots from my first year playing AC (2000, when I was in 8th grade), I've been pretty cautious about data backups. Unlike most of the individuals who produced the heightmaps, I never lost them to a harddrive failure - I had them on DVD as well as an external drive. Funny little story... Ganzor, who was the original creator of the heightmaps to my knowledge, lost them. Back when I first posted on the official Minecraft forums about importing heightmaps to Minecraft, I specifically mentioned having a Dereth heightmap and color map. Small world effect - Ganzor saw the post, and asked for copies of the original heightmaps. happy

The original method for generating heightmaps from the Cell.dat involved use of a little batch file which would read the landblock data and assign a greyscale color value to each section, based upon its elevation data. I tried importing it into Oblivion once... Didn't go over so well - it was too big and broke the TES Editor! I still have the batch file somewhere, but can't find it right now; can't remember the actual file name. It wouldn't work on a ToD Cell.dat, however. The original AC CD - or the DM CD would have fully useable Cell.dat files, though!

Listos: The 3rd party software scene for AC produced a hell of a lot more than Decal. We even used to skin the user interface before a change in the Cell.dat format; I even made my own skins for it. Some skins can still be seen on the above-linked Sucamarto's AC Heaven. Left panel: AC Skin Updates.



Aerlinthian:
Minecraft's world can support /infinite/ dimensions. The theoretical limit for a Minecraft world, from the limits of the number of integers Java can store, is more than eight times the surface area of the Earth. Dereth is about the size of Rhode Island. A 1:10 scale of Dereth is in no way a problem for Minecraft.

 

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MyopicM2aces 
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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
DarkDecending: There was a utility to convert the TOD cell.dat/portal.dat data into the old .dat format. I used that on the TOD .dat files, and then used david simpsons old c program to extract the terrain data. I couldn't do anything for a while, until i found the Substrate library. Using the terrain data and Substrate I started experimenting with recreating dereth.

Current idea: Take the terrain data (2041x2041 heightmap, 8x8 grid = 1 AC landblock, AC being 255x255 landblocks big), scale it up by a factor of maybe 8 to get a 16,328x16,328 grid, create a heightmap by using a resampling algorithm (bilinear or bicubic comes to mind)

The other thing is the terrain data also includes the terrain type for the points, so it would be easy to extract that info an generate the appropriate minecraft block for a given point.

If you want to discuss this further feel free to hit me up on aim, TenFlavorsOfGlue, or email mofidul2 at gmail.

 

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.-Vega-. 
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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
http://sminc.bounceme.net/pub/photoalbum/Dereth/index.html

This is incredible!

 

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jungalist 
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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
.-Vega-. posted:http://sminc.bounceme.net/pub/photoalbum/Dereth/index.html

This is incredible!

 

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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
Steele should put this on the server when its done. That would be a blast lol.

 

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TheDarkDecending 
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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
So, just a brief update:

Project is not dead, but midterms + research projects = working until 3-4AM every night.

@Myopic:
That's quite interesting, and I'd like to look into it - but may not be able to do much beyond this current project until December.

 

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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
TheDarkDecending posted:
Aerlinthian:
Minecraft's world can support /infinite/ dimensions. The theoretical limit for a Minecraft world, from the limits of the number of integers Java can store, is more than eight times the surface area of the Earth. Dereth is about the size of Rhode Island. A 1:10 scale of Dereth is in no way a problem for Minecraft.


I'm going to bet the engine cannot scale its performance to that level, though. tongue

 

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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
HeartView posted:
TheDarkDecending posted:
Aerlinthian:
Minecraft's world can support /infinite/ dimensions. The theoretical limit for a Minecraft world, from the limits of the number of integers Java can store, is more than eight times the surface area of the Earth. Dereth is about the size of Rhode Island. A 1:10 scale of Dereth is in no way a problem for Minecraft.


I'm going to bet the engine cannot scale its performance to that level, though. tongue


Performance isn't an issue of map size but of users since it only loads what is being used. Of course the point is kind of moot as it has pretty poor resource management and ends up slurping up memory over time anyway, lol.

 

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HeartView 
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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
Steelwind_Oo posted:
Performance isn't an issue of map size but of users since it only loads what is being used. Of course the point is kind of moot as it has pretty poor resource management and ends up slurping up memory over time anyway, lol.


That was kind of my point... how much memory would it take to represent a map that big and how would the performance be using structures that large? If the data file for it is 10 GB and it doesn't use some scheme like memory mapped files, then performance is going to suck hard. How many people have computers with even 8 GB of memory (I do, but I'm a nerd)? tongue

 

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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
Files are in folder structured chunks so aren't that big individually and using a grid system they are only accessed when needed. They were even more granular (smaller) but it was inefficient on bigger maps due to the number of files. Boy did it do evil things to my rdiffs too when they used that format, lol.

 

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TheDarkDecending 
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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
This is still [sporadically] being worked on. As stated, it will be finished. The ends of the term has been rougher than previously anticipated. Turned in a thesis draft yesterday, presented a minor project today, and have yet another project to finish over the coming week.

 

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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
dibs on the spot with the most iron ore.

 

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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
keep up the good fight

 

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TheDarkDecending 
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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
I have a draft at the 10% scale currently being finished. The roads I had set to import as cobblestone, but instead they came out as snow. I'm manually fixing this in Creative. I will not, however, be cleaning up other edges, nor will I be adding the buildings and such to towns - 10% scale is too small for faithful recreations.

I have, in the last few days, managed to get a 20% scale map that would not break the heightmapper. The heightmap I'm using did not scale up appropriately, however, so I will need to do a great deal of trial and error to have the terrain actually match up to Dereth. This will be quite time consuming: Each draft import of the 10% took roughly 1-2 hours. The single draft of the 20% took 11 hours to convert.

The 20% scale map appears to be large enough that cities could be rebuilt with acceptable accuracy.


Once I have finished fixing up the roads, I will update this post with a download link for the 10% scale map.
I will also attach my recreations of Dryreach [one is scaled to player height, the other such that the buildings are sized proportionately to one another].

 

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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
/nostalgia

 

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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
coolios

 

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Jyiiga 
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I wish I could find a modern MMO with the wide open feel of AC.

 

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jonus156 
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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
AkagiyamaMissile posted:
Bakuun posted:
Just LOOKING at the map bring back memories happy



/sigh Same here.

 

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Ocura 
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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
In regards to cloning ac in mc... could with adventure craft and a truck load of patience grin I've been fiddling with adventurecraft for a while, someone with more patience could prob fly through recreating it.


As for your map, my god you've been busy! Amazing work.


Edit: After thought, you doing it just as a visual or will you be adjusting/tweaking for it to be a viable map to play on? (Or for that matter may not even need tweaking, just any image I ever hauled in that way turned out to be fugly and difficult to play on lol)

 

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TheDarkDecending 
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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
I was going to be putting up a download link tonight, but that's not happening now. This is going to be delayed a bit.

12:42 AM - McIntire: As I was working on my Dereth in Minecraft map, finishing up the last of the roads
12:42 AM - McIntire: Minecraft decided, "This looks like a good spot for a snow biome!"
12:42 AM - McIntire: And thus my entire tropical coast became snow
12:43 AM - McIntire: I was able to reset the terrain generator so.. well, that area, at least, is not snow anymore. haven't visitied any others, but I'm hoping I reset the generator to no biomes.
12:43 AM - McIntire: aaand so i have a small continent worth of editing to do in MCEdit now, to clear off the existing snow fall, since it refuses to melt.
12:44 AM - McIntire: xD



Ocura:

This is an actual Minecraft save game. You can run around, build, whatever you want. It's going to be limited to Creative mode, however [for the time being], as the heightmap importer generates terrain that is ALL stone below the topmost level. No resources are there to gather if you dig below. It's possible to remedy this by copying the surface of the map, say, sea level and higher, and pasting that into a fresh world to replace it's surface terrain... But that will take a good bit of time to accomplish. Hence, releasing it as a Creative mode SP file initially.

 

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the_great_intex 
Title: This is what cool looks like
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Subject: Dereth in Minecraft
What's Dereth?


What's AC?

mischief

 

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