-Peo-
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Firelands is a clusterf*ck.
I shudder to think what it is like on a PvP server. The ultimate carebears on Feathermoon think they are cool for flagging on the thrall questline. It literally took me an hour or more to complete the thrall questline becuz of these people who act all hard by flagging on an RP-PvE server, hopping on a flying mount, and landing when they have 10 to 1 advantage. It's kinda funny in a way. You can easily make them go away by organizing resistance. They scatter like ducks when more than 3 horde start fighting back.
And the actual dailies? Seriously, GC, really? 75 people minimum in the same area trying to heal Wounded Protectors? How freaking stupid do you have to be to keep making the same GD mistakes? Over and over. Now you have 5 people standing on an NPC spawn point either in line or trying to use that potion as fast as they can. How immersive is that, eh? "Oh a wounded guy will spawn soon, Stupidcrappynamedguy, it is your turn next, Guynamedlikeamoron, you are after." SOOOO many people trying to do the same thing.
Basically it occurs to me that the Devs are sandbox oriented, developing content for a Massive world.
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Arcilite_I
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You sound really mad bro
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Elmador_MoK
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"Basically it occurs to me that the Devs are sandbox oriented, developing content for a Massive world."
I feel like WoW has been using this approach from day one. I daresay it is even part of their broad appeal... instead of a continuous world you get theme parks by zone. It's part of why Azeroth has never felt like a massive, living world to me or my friends who are all old school MMO vets. And we see this every time new content comes out--it can't be helped that everyone will flock to the only new thing to do. Remember Quel'Danis? Just the nature of new content.
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-Peo-
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Arcilite_I posted:
You sound really mad bro
Coulda just typed +1. Snarky is so yesterday.
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Quazimortal
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I don't think you understand what the term sandbox means.
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We provide the music, and you provide the silence.†~Leopold Stokowski
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-Peo-
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Oh, I think I do.
Cramming a ton of people into a small area with new content with no respect for how overcrowded that area will be as 50+ people fight over a spawn of 10...yea, I think I understand sandbox pretty well. Also see Isle of Quel Danas and Argent Tournament.
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Quazimortal
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Yep, now I'm sure you don't understand what sandbox means.
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We provide the music, and you provide the silence.†~Leopold Stokowski
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Arunne
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-Peo- posted:
Oh, I think I do.
Cramming a ton of people into a small area with new content with no respect for how overcrowded that area will be as 50+ people fight over a spawn of 10...yea, I think I understand sandbox pretty well. Also see Isle of Quel Danas and Argent Tournament.
This is been WOW's course for several years. You come here spouting off like you expected firelands to be something different. Why would the come up with something new when this model has worked pretty well for them for years.
I think you expect too much from a video game that has been around as long as WOW has.
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Sprawl-zero1eye-
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It isn't a sandbox, it's an overcrowded amusement park.
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kyrv
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-Peo- posted:
Oh, I think I do.
Cramming a ton of people into a small area with new content with no respect for how overcrowded that area will be as 50+ people fight over a spawn of 10...yea, I think I understand sandbox pretty well. Also see Isle of Quel Danas and Argent Tournament.
Just fyi, no biggie, I agree on the bad design, but what sandbox means in the MMORPG world is (very) different from how you are using.
Again just an fyi, your point about the very bad design is quite valid. 
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-Peo-
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In other news, the hunter murloc helmet is one badass hat.
It looks seriously bitchin on a troll.
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-Peo-
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Also, sorry you don't like my interpretation of Sandbox, Quazi, but then again, if you saw a brick that had "nuh uh" painted on it, you would argue with it.
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Quazimortal
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I couldn't hear you over your wrongness.
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We provide the music, and you provide the silence.†~Leopold Stokowski
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NukeMage
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This should be entertaining . .
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-Peo-
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Nuh uh!
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Auenwing
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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:
It isn't a sandbox, it's an overcrowded amusement park.
And everybody is standing in the E-Ticket Line.
Good analogy.
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Foojo
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Quaz is right. Sandbox is used to describe games where players can freely change things and build on their own with little structure. Think more SWG at release and UO. WoW is most definitely not a sandbox game. Terms like non-linear come up when describing sandbox games.
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_Taebo_
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There's nothing sandbox about WoW at all. Like someone said, WoW is an amusement park. What we're seeing now is a new 'ride' in the park that everyone wants to check out, so get in line.
The dailies in Hyjal are decent, but the ones in the Firelands are piss poor. For example, the healing of the Hyjal Defenders and such is a clusterf*ck. It seems buggy too where some are at full health and then fall down burning. There's literally 100 people trying to do the same quests in a really small area. Everyone is just jumping on this FL stuff because they're bored, it speaks volumes.
A true sandbox game is Eve Online, the old Star Wars Galaxies (pre NGE) or Ultima Online.
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heiromancerdrackus
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-Peo- posted:
Also, sorry you don't like my interpretation of Sandbox, Quazi, but then again, if you saw a brick that had "nuh uh" painted on it, you would argue with it.
Nope, sorry, you are using 'sandbox' wrong. Sandbox describes a MMO design direction where player activity creates and influences the content; from crafting full player loot systems to political systems and world building. Darkfall is a sandbox. Shadowbane was a sandbox. UO was a sandbox. Every major MMO to launch since AC2 is a theme park MMO.
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Dums
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heiromancerdrackus posted:
-Peo- posted:
Also, sorry you don't like my interpretation of Sandbox, Quazi, but then again, if you saw a brick that had "nuh uh" painted on it, you would argue with it.
Nope, sorry, you are using 'sandbox' wrong. Sandbox describes a MMO design direction where player activity creates and influences the content; from crafting full player loot systems to political systems and world building. Darkfall is a sandbox. Shadowbane was a sandbox. UO was a sandbox. Every major MMO to launch since AC2 is a theme park MMO.
^
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Quazimortal
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Foojo posted:
Quaz is right.
Damn right! 
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The_Korrigan
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Quazimortal posted:
Yep, now I'm sure you don't understand what sandbox means.
+1
heiromancerdrackus posted:
Nope, sorry, you are using 'sandbox' wrong. Sandbox describes a MMO design direction where player activity creates and influences the content; from crafting full player loot systems to political systems and world building. Darkfall is a sandbox. Shadowbane was a sandbox. UO was a sandbox. Every major MMO to launch since AC2 is a theme park MMO.
The definition is quite on spot, but don't confuse open PvP with sandbox either. Darkfall and Shadowbane are/were more PvP gankfests than sandbox worlds. Don't forget SWG in the major sandbox MMOs either though (the original SWG, not the catastrophe they made of it over time), which was way superior to any Darkfail, Mortfail Online or Shadowbane sandbox wise.
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Arcilite_I
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Quazimortal posted:
I couldn't hear you over your wrongness.
lol
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Jyiiga
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-Peo- posted:
Oh, I think I do.
Cramming a ton of people into a small area with new content with no respect for how overcrowded that area will be as 50+ people fight over a spawn of 10...yea, I think I understand sandbox pretty well. Also see Isle of Quel Danas and Argent Tournament.
I'm late, but I can't help myself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY
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Fedup23
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Person who hates the devs/direction of WoW, crying about not being able to play content introduced by those same devs in the very game he cant stand.  eh.. sounds par for the course. 
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-Peo-
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Fedup23 posted:
Person who hates the devs/direction of WoW, crying about not being able to play content introduced by those same devs in the very game he cant stand. eh.. sounds par for the course.
Person who does nothing but try to get people to pick fights with him, trying to pick a fight, par indeed. Seriously, you aren't spooky, stop trying to be him.
Wrong, wrong, I am wrong. It happens.
Also, scrubs is freaking awesome. I feel completely wronged by that video. There is another video of Cox saying no on the same list, awesome.
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Fedup23
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-Peo- posted:
Fedup23 posted:
Person who hates the devs/direction of WoW, crying about not being able to play content introduced by those same devs in the very game he cant stand. eh.. sounds par for the course.
Person who does nothing but try to get people to pick fights with him, trying to pick a fight, par indeed. Seriously, you aren't spooky, stop trying to be him.
Wrong, wrong, I am wrong. It happens.
Also, scrubs is freaking awesome. I feel completely wronged by that video. There is another video of Cox saying no on the same list, awesome.
I dont try to pick fights with anyone.. in fact 99% of the time I go out of my way to tell people i am just kidding. 
sorry man.
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-Peo-
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Eh, most of the time, I ignore you anyways, to be honest. But then, I try to ignore a lot of people here. The "he was wrong" feeding frenzy will go on another few days, I am sure I will ignore a few more. Honestly, it's an annoyance, but one I bring on myself by posting here - certain people are just [tos_profanity] and get off on it, it's VN, that what they do here  I fully admit, I come here to be bitchy and complain, when I want a pleasant experience posting, I CERTAINLY don't come to this board.
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Groooovechampion
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I unsubbed a long time ago so I did not see this Firebla place but it was a good decision I just stay out. This thread pretty much sums why. I have no confidence in an improvement of whatsoever in WoW - especially zero to the senior game designers. The war in warcraft is lol.
I hope that Bonecraft game will screw the hell of parodies out of wow ^^.
WoW and Sandbox is a joke. Everytime I type those two terms in one sentence, I hear a crowd laughing in the background.
Yeah, true sandbox = eve.
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Spookysheep
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-Peo- posted:
Seriously, you aren't spooky, stop trying to be him.
There can be only one.
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I liek cheese
Pirates > Ninjas
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Quazimortal
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Spookysheep posted:
-Peo- posted:
Seriously, you aren't spooky, stop trying to be him.
There can be only one.
May it be Spooky MacLeod.
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Acao
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Groooovechampion posted:
I unsubbed a long time ago so I did not see this Firebla place but it was a good decision I just stay out. This thread pretty much sums why. I have no confidence in an improvement of whatsoever in WoW - especially zero to the senior game designers. The war in warcraft is lol.
I hope that Bonecraft game will screw the hell of parodies out of wow ^^.
WoW and Sandbox is a joke. Everytime I type those two terms in one sentence, I hear a crowd laughing in the background.
Yeah, true sandbox = eve.
SWG pre-NGE = sandbox
SWG post NGE = sandbox lite
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GutterSludge
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I do not comprehend this thread.
The new quest areas are a blast BECAUSE of the world pvp involved in them.
Want your 8 wounded guys? Do them while kiting a warrior all around the place..Want to do the original intro quest? Fight through enemies just to GET the quest, and die 5-15 times before you can finish one area due to the player vs player combat...
I absolutely love it.
The standing in line on a spawn thing just cracked me up. If that upsets you, you would bawl your eyes out on an active PVP server.
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Quazimortal
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People actually stand in a line for something? Screw that I'm running right up and spam clicking where it spawns.
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We provide the music, and you provide the silence.†~Leopold Stokowski
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Arcilite_I
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Quazimortal posted:
People actually stand in a line for something? Screw that I'm running right up and spam clicking where it spawns.
-----signature-----
PvPing since 1977
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Jyiiga
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Quazimortal posted:
People actually stand in a line for something? Screw that I'm running right up and spam clicking where it spawns.
I just go do something else for a week. Seriously, there is nothing in this game that I have to get right this minute.
This isn't some one per server Asheron's Call item. I refuse to line camp or fight with a bunch of ten year olds.
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Fedup23
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Spookysheep posted:
-Peo- posted:
Seriously, you aren't spooky, stop trying to be him.
There can be only one.
I guess those "Learn to Speak Spook in 30 days" tapes aren't paying off.
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Zero_Washu
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Subject:
Sandbox devs in a massive world are fail.
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Jyiiga posted:
Quazimortal posted:
People actually stand in a line for something? Screw that I'm running right up and spam clicking where it spawns.
I just go do something else for a week. Seriously, there is nothing in this game that I have to get right this minute.
This isn't some one per server Asheron's Call item. I refuse to line camp or fight with a bunch of ten year olds.
Ten year olds don't have this sort of patience.
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. For everything there is a season, and a time for every purpose under heaven
. Cows go moo, Dogs go woof and MMO players go ''PVP is imbalanced''
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Spookysheep
Title: Lieker of Cheese
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Subject:
Sandbox devs in a massive world are fail.
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Fedup23 posted:
Spookysheep posted:
-Peo- posted:
Seriously, you aren't spooky, stop trying to be him.
There can be only one.
I guess those "Learn to Speak Spook in 30 days" tapes aren't paying off.
We do offer a money back guarantee. You just have to pay shipping and handling plus a "small processing fee" to return the merchandise 
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I liek cheese
Pirates > Ninjas
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Fedup23
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Subject:
Sandbox devs in a massive world are fail.
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Spookysheep posted:
Fedup23 posted:
Spookysheep posted:
[quote=-Peo-]
Seriously, you aren't spooky, stop trying to be him.
There can be only one.
I guess those "Learn to Speak Spook in 30 days" tapes aren't paying off.
We do offer a money back guarantee. You just have to pay shipping and handling plus a "small processing fee" to return the merchandise [/quote]
Oh no..Im not falling for that one..they pulled that same scam on me with the snuggies!! 
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Cawlin
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Subject:
Sandbox devs in a massive world are fail.
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Not reading the rest of the thread aside from the OP, but back near the beginning of the retail availability of the game, I played on Feathermoon. I started on Arthas because I wanted an immersive PvP experience and got non-stop ganking to the point that I could not actually play without being camped by players many levels higher than me (ah the good old days of PvP servers in the first few months of the game being live...) But anyway, I moved to Feathermoon because I thought that like DAOC, an RP server would lead to a "better community" than the one I encountered on Arthas where my own faction mates wouldn't help out when high levels were constantly camping lowbies. I quickly learned I was wrong.
Back in those days though, Horde was VERY outnumbered on Feathermoon. This made Tarren Mill/Soutshore PvP fun to a point but it would quickly become lopsided as 5 allies for every one horde player showed up... I can't remember the exact sequence of PvP battlegrounds but I remember with AV, if you wanted a match, you posted on the forums and the Horde, if they deigned to do so, would agree to queue up with 40 people at a set date and time so that the game could start. Allies would wait in queue for AV for hours and hours on end, and the Horde would simply not queue as often as they would keep their "appointment". If they queued up and didn't like who they saw in the ally game or if it wasn't going their way, they'd all just leave the BG, leaving the allies to requeue for another 8-12 hour/forever wait while they inst-queued again. It sucked big time.
Additionaly with WSG, the Horde on FM did the same sort of stuff - of course they could run a pre-made which they did, while Allies sat for hours on end in queue. If the Hordies didn't like the matchup they saw, they'd leave the BG and put the Allies into the back of the day long queue again... the forums were constantly lit up with flame posts about how the Horde wouldn't queue unless they had the perfect setup and would screw allies out of games by AFKing and so forth... it was a mess. Basically the Horde on FM were few enough in number that they controlled the BG queues. There was one guild that was pretty organized on the Horde back then, Low Red Moon, and the rest of the Hordies pretty much did whatever LRM said with respect to queueing for BGs.
If some allies went on a ganking spree in a lowbie town, LRM and the FM horde would "punish" the allies by not queueing for days or weeks at a time. If one of the LRM "blacklisted" allies showed up in a BG match, they'd all leave the BG and put that person as well as the rest of the people on the team to the back of the queue...
After a couple months of that, I moved to Elune and played Horde lol.
It was a mess. While I understand that it was all about population imbalance and all that crap, I was happy to leave the server. Like Arthas, I can understand why "bad blood" may exist on FM.
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If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips.
Everyone playing WoW knows everything about playing two classes: 1) their own and 2) Hunters
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Blisteringballs
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Sandbox devs in a massive world are fail.
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I want a solid themepark MMO that successfully integrates the best parts of past and present sandboxes (housing and player run cities like UO and SWG, fully player driven economy and territorial control like EVE). A pipe dream, but a man can dream.
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Boone-Eldar
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Sandbox devs in a massive world are fail.
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Fedup23 posted:
Person who hates the devs/direction of WoW, crying about not being able to play content introduced by those same devs in the very game he cant stand. eh.. sounds par for the course.
For this board, yeah it is.
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Seriously? 
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tantallous
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Sandbox devs in a massive world are fail.
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Blisteringballs posted:
I want a solid themepark MMO that successfully integrates the best parts of past and present sandboxes (housing and player run cities like UO and SWG, fully player driven economy and territorial control like EVE). A pipe dream, but a man can dream.
A theme park MMO would be awesome. I'd get on the biggest roller coaster and camp it all day long!
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Its what you just said, translated into guy speak and leaving out the unecessary parts
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Auenwing
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Sandbox devs in a massive world are fail.
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tantallous posted:
Blisteringballs posted:
I want a solid themepark MMO that successfully integrates the best parts of past and present sandboxes (housing and player run cities like UO and SWG, fully player driven economy and territorial control like EVE). A pipe dream, but a man can dream.
A theme park MMO would be awesome. I'd get on the biggest roller coaster and camp it all day long!
PvPing on a rollercoaster using knockback sounds like fun!
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There are those who play tank classes, and those that tank.
The weapon is only as good as the person wielding it.
Free advice is often worth what you pay for it: nothing.
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The_Korrigan
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Sandbox devs in a massive world are fail.
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Fedup23 posted:
Person who hates the devs/direction of WoW, crying about not being able to play content introduced by those same devs in the very game he cant stand. eh.. sounds par for the course.
He can explain it all:
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SWTOR: 50 Jedi Shadow (Tank), 50 Sith Marauder (Annihilation).
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WoW: Both accounts canceled for now.
GW2: Future Warrior.
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mjman18
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Sandbox devs in a massive world are fail.
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Sandbox and WoW dont belong in the same sentence... WoW is more like a liter box, with everyone competing to get the next turd that drops in.
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chaddlock
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Sandbox devs in a massive world are fail.
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Quazimortal posted:
Yep, now I'm sure you don't understand what sandbox means.
Maybe he meant to say caged? Ha.
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Ugh_Lancelot
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That...is a lot of broken links.
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Trejin_DarkBlade
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Sandbox devs in a massive world are fail.
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Have to agree one the WoW amusement park analogy. Also when I hear sandbox I think of games like Oblivion where you can do anything you want to do. I think of a very popular lesser known sandbox game called Mount and Blade. Im a former WoWer but I do still try to see whats going on with Blizzard. What the original poster described took me back to WoW's 1st expansion and how we were waiting in line for spawns then two.
Sounds to me not much has changed, just the color of the box.
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