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| [VN
Boards Archive] |
Welcome to the Vault Network
forum archive.
This is not a complete archive, time didn't allot us the
opportunity to properly backup the majority of the boards
deemed "expendable". Most boards on this list have at least
20-40 pages archived (non-logged in pages, 15 topics per
page).
Popular boards may have as many as 250 pages archived at 50
topics per page, while others deemed of historical
signifigance may be archived in their entirety.
We may not agree with how the board shutdown was managed, but
we've done what we could to preserve some of its history in
lieu of that.
Please enjoy the archive.
~
Managers, Moderators, VIP's, and regular posters.
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| Author |
Topic: Account Banned
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Rezzinu
Posts:
3,920
Registered:
Apr 17, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 3,862
User ID: 915,409
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Subject:
Account Banned
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So I decided I would like to see the new area's that Cataclysm has to offer and I was going to use the 10 day trial. Logged into my Battle.net account, clicked on my WoW account and it told me it was banned. No reason, no nothing, just account banned.
I have no idea why it was banned. I quit before Cataclysm released, right around when they implemented the new talent trees (think it was November). My password was made out of 6 letters (2 uppercase letters), 2 numbers, and 2 characters. Honestly it was a really strong password with no ties to anything. My machine is clean and that was the only game/account that was hacked. (/tinfoil hat...inside job)
Oh well. They'll never see me re-subscribing now...guaranteed.
-----signature-----
DAoC, CoH, WoW, AoC, Warhammer, LoTR. Rift, etc...
..Played one, played them all!
.
Keeping your knowledge a secret leads to arrogance...
...Sharing your knowledge with others leads to your demise.
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sarnsereg
Title: I HAS A TITLE?
Posts:
18,092
Registered:
Jun 17, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,296
User ID: 163,596
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Subject:
Account Banned
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see ya.
also, blizzard doesn't count upper and lowercase letters. all you wondering, just type yourpassword with capslock on or just use all lowercase and it'll still work.. actually makes me mad to think their log in is that unsecure that it doesn't differntiate between upper and lowercase. (or as of a couple months ago anyways, maybe they changed it which would be good.)
-----signature-----
"...and they'll say "Hey, Look at him!, I'll never live that way". And that's ok they couldn't anyway..."
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GutterSludge
Posts:
4,620
Registered:
Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
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Subject:
Account Banned
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Rezz,
It is possible that you got hacked, and your account was used while you were unsubbed (which is easily verified)
Contact Blizz and see whats up.
Edit: this is of course unless you know you deserved to be banned for something, and have no grounds for a dispute.
-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
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Link to this post
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Taloquin
Posts:
360
Registered:
Nov 20, '03
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 358
User ID: 860,145
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Subject:
Account Banned
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Simply put, you only used 6 characters. The difference between 6 characters vs 8, be it letters, numbers, or "characters" as you said is huge. Exponentially huge. Then if you were smart you would have attached an authenticator, either the $8 one from Blizzard or the free iDevice app.
Simply put, you got hacked. It's not Blizzard's fault. It's yours.
Only thing you can do is submit a ticket via email to Blizzard's accounts department and wait for a reply. If you don't wanna wait for that, that's your business. Blizzard won't miss you. Even with the dwindling subs they have had lately, losing one because the user didn't secure their account is about a pebble in the ocean.
-----signature-----
I'm a lurker and I know it.
Post count just means you spend too much time reading and not enough playing. :P
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Quazimortal
Title: The One and Only
Posts:
17,806
Registered:
Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
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Subject:
Account Banned
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Taloquin posted:
Simply put, you only used 6 characters. The difference between 6 characters vs 8, be it letters, numbers, or "characters" as you said is huge. Exponentially huge. Then if you were smart you would have attached an authenticator, either the $8 one from Blizzard or the free iDevice app.
Simply put, you got hacked. It's not Blizzard's fault. It's yours.
Only thing you can do is submit a ticket via email to Blizzard's accounts department and wait for a reply. If you don't wanna wait for that, that's your business. Blizzard won't miss you. Even with the dwindling subs they have had lately, losing one because the user didn't secure their account is about a pebble in the ocean.
Math isn't your strong point, is it?
-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.†~Leopold Stokowski
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Link to this post
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Rezzinu
Posts:
3,920
Registered:
Apr 17, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 3,862
User ID: 915,409
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Subject:
Account Banned
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GutterSludge posted:
Rezz,
It is possible that you got hacked, and your account was used while you were unsubbed (which is easily verified)
Contact Blizz and see whats up.
Edit: this is of course unless you know you deserved to be banned for something, and have no grounds for a dispute.
Thanks for the help Gutter. I'm going to contact them via email on Monday. Like you said this should be easily verified, my subscription was canceled way back when and I have entered no payment information since then.
And no. I had no grounds for a ban before I left. Never got a warning, suspension or anything on my account.
-----signature-----
DAoC, CoH, WoW, AoC, Warhammer, LoTR. Rift, etc...
..Played one, played them all!
.
Keeping your knowledge a secret leads to arrogance...
...Sharing your knowledge with others leads to your demise.
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Link to this post
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Broken_Kayfabe
Posts:
9,125
Registered:
Feb 16, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 9,010
User ID: 646,295
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Subject:
Account Banned
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Taloquin posted:
Simply put, you only used 6 characters. The difference between 6 characters vs 8, be it letters, numbers, or "characters" as you said is huge. Exponentially huge. Then if you were smart you would have attached an authenticator, either the $8 one from Blizzard or the free iDevice app.
Simply put, you got hacked. It's not Blizzard's fault. It's yours.
[tos_personal attacks]
-----signature-----
Thanks, but it's been fun
Five more minutes then I'm done!
I've been saying that to myself since
...yesterday.
- from "Has anybody seen my corpse". Man Everquest rocked back in the day...
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Link to this post
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Taloquin
Posts:
360
Registered:
Nov 20, '03
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 358
User ID: 860,145
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Subject:
Account Banned
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Quazimortal posted:
Math isn't your strong point, is it?
Actually I don't think it's yours.
26 letters (not including numbers and other special ascii characters) used in a 6 character password is 308,915,776 combinations.
26 letters (not including numbers and other special ascii characters) used in a 8 character password is 208,827,064,576 combinations.
That's just over 300 million combinations versus just over 200 billion combinations. And that's just using letters, not the entire 128 characters available. See the difference, or must I break out the crayons?
Broken_Kayfabe posted:
[tos_quoted violation]
HAH! That's funny. Maybe YOU should go read it it again? As the OP said, "My password was made out of 6 letters (2 uppercase letters), 2 numbers, and 2 characters."
Broken_Kayfabe posted:
[tos_quoted violation]
Did I ever say that it was brute force? No I didn't. I said he got hacked. I just pointed out that he has a weak password too.
Broken_Kayfabe posted:
[tos_quoted violation]
You first.
-----signature-----
I'm a lurker and I know it.
Post count just means you spend too much time reading and not enough playing. :P
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Link to this post
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Quazimortal
Title: The One and Only
Posts:
17,806
Registered:
Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
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Subject:
Account Banned
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Wow, you even wrote it out and you still can't add properly. I don't even know what to say to that...
Let me dumb it down for you so that just maybe you will get it.
6+2+2=10
Crayons indeed! 
-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.†~Leopold Stokowski
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Link to this post
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Fist_de_Yuma
Posts:
24,444
Registered:
Dec 20, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 21,971
User ID: 566,471
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Subject:
Account Banned
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There seems to be a flaw that allows people to find un-sub'ed accounts and steal them. Just what the flaw is, or if it is an inside job is not clear. Evidence shows many people have their accounts stolen after a few months of non use.
-----signature-----
There are three kind of liberals;
Stupid, ignorant or evil
The result is always evil but the intent is not always evil. Not that it makes much difference in the long run.
No one here is exactly as they seem. - G'Kar
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tantallous
Title: Thought Police
Posts:
11,498
Registered:
Jan 11, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 10,775
User ID: 606,983
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Subject:
Account Banned
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Quazimortal posted:
Wow, you even wrote it out and you still can't add properly. I don't even know what to say to that...
Let me dumb it down for you so that just maybe you will get it.
6+2+2=10
Crayons indeed!
I admit, at first I didn't catch it either, but when you mentioned it before I went and looked and was like.. oh. right 
-----signature-----
Its what you just said, translated into guy speak and leaving out the unecessary parts
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Link to this post
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Quazimortal
Title: The One and Only
Posts:
17,806
Registered:
Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
|
Subject:
Account Banned
|
tantallous posted:
Quazimortal posted:
Wow, you even wrote it out and you still can't add properly. I don't even know what to say to that...
Let me dumb it down for you so that just maybe you will get it.
6+2+2=10
Crayons indeed!
I admit, at first I didn't catch it either, but when you mentioned it before I went and looked and was like.. oh. right
Perfectly understandable to misread something once, and when you reread it you noticed what you missed. This guy though, he puts it in his own response to someone and still doesn't see it. I really am in awe of the absurdity of it.
He even goes so far as to insult me by eluding that I'm some child who uses crayons, freakin' hilarious!
-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.†~Leopold Stokowski
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Link to this post
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GutterSludge
Posts:
4,620
Registered:
Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
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Subject:
Account Banned
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Fist_de_Yuma posted:
There seems to be a flaw that allows people to find un-sub'ed accounts and steal them. Just what the flaw is, or if it is an inside job is not clear. Evidence shows many people have their accounts stolen after a few months of non use.
Not really.
JoeBobJoe downloads a keylogger.
This program sends results constantly to the 'hackers' computer.....at this point said hacker has two choices.
1. Try to 'snag' the account right now, and wind up fighting the owner for control, who will undoubtedly take steps to find and remove said keylogger, and more than likely have the account locked.
2. Wait until the data shows that the user is not logging in to WOW anymore, perhaps a few weeks in a row with no logins, and then rape and pillage the account at will, with no opposition.
I really don't think the account is any weaker when unsubbed, the player just isn't there to notice changes and take action.
-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
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Kordirn
Title: Pirate Prince
Posts:
23,453
Registered:
Apr 19, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 23,192
User ID: 915,876
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Subject:
Account Banned
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I guess reading isn't Taloquin's strong point.
-----signature-----
ooOooo oOoOO OOo
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Arcilite_I
Title: VN's Most Wanted
Posts:
34,414
Registered:
Jan 27, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 33,674
User ID: 633,598
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Subject:
Account Banned
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Kordirn posted:
I guess reading isn't Taloquin's strong point.
Never really has been.
-----signature-----
PvPing since 1977
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Quazimortal
Title: The One and Only
Posts:
17,806
Registered:
Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
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Subject:
Account Banned
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Good call on his part not to post in here again though.
-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.†~Leopold Stokowski
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Link to this post
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-Peo-
Title: Caveat Lector
Posts:
3,208
Registered:
Feb 2, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 3,155
User ID: 1,024,262
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Subject:
Account Banned
|
Taloquin posted:
That's just over 300 million combinations versus just over 200 billion combinations.
So like the difference between getting your head cut off and getting thrown into a wood chipper.
I tell you what, Taloquin, you go start trying out the different permutation of over 300 million possibilities, one at a time. When you are done come back and tell us how long it took. As an added bonus, it will take you so long, we won't have to see you again, ever.
I think what people are trying to say is, at some point, the possible permutations becomes moot. It simply isn't feasible to think that someone got lucky by randomly typing in letter, numbers and symbols in the exact, correct combination. Not to mention, you can't do word problems.
300 million vs 200 billion is irrelevant. Both numbers are so large that the time required to figure out the PW is prohibitive.
-----signature-----
SWTOR, Maybe in a year.
Back to WoW for now.
With a lil f2p CoH.
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Nakal
Title: Moderator
Bad Moogle
Posts:
19,542
Registered:
Jul 9, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 19,238
User ID: 695,821
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Subject:
Account Banned
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Just a note: Battle.net does not support uppercase letters. I had to take the authenticator off my account shortly before I quit, because my Phone took a bath. in less than 2 days my account was hacked. 8 character - Upper/Lower/numbers. Come to find out. The letters weren't case sensitive...
-----signature-----
Currently in the MMO unemployment line.
Can I get $15/month for not playing them?
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tantallous
Title: Thought Police
Posts:
11,498
Registered:
Jan 11, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 10,775
User ID: 606,983
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Subject:
Account Banned
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well.. the time required for a person to enter every possible combination is quite high, but the time required for a computer to do that for you is significantly less.. in which case the number of possible combinations does have some impact, because the time increases accordingly. It wont prevent it from being discovered, but it will make it take much longer. of course.. they ALSO would need your account name. this has been made somewhat easier with the asinine decision to use email addresses for bnet login as your new account stuff, rather than something that someone could create unique to the game, but there are enough free emails out there that you can make one to use for bnet just as easily as you'd make one for anything else.
-----signature-----
Its what you just said, translated into guy speak and leaving out the unecessary parts
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Link to this post
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Quazimortal
Title: The One and Only
Posts:
17,806
Registered:
Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
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Subject:
Account Banned
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If only Blizzard would implement a feature that automatically locked you out from attempted logins after a small number of failed attempts.
Oh, wait...
-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.†~Leopold Stokowski
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Link to this post
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tantallous
Title: Thought Police
Posts:
11,498
Registered:
Jan 11, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 10,775
User ID: 606,983
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Subject:
Account Banned
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Quazimortal posted:
If only Blizzard would implement a feature that automatically locked you out from attempted logins after a small number of failed attempts.
Oh, wait...
liez.
clearly the account thefts are due to lulzsec and their expert hacking efforts. they jump into bliz database daily to see which accounts they want to grab next.
-----signature-----
Its what you just said, translated into guy speak and leaving out the unecessary parts
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GutterSludge
Posts:
4,620
Registered:
Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
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Subject:
Account Banned
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tantallous posted:
well.. the time required for a person to enter every possible combination is quite high, but the time required for a computer to do that for you is significantly less.. in which case the number of possible combinations does have some impact, because the time increases accordingly. It wont prevent it from being discovered, but it will make it take much longer. of course.. they ALSO would need your account name. this has been made somewhat easier with the asinine decision to use email addresses for bnet login as your new account stuff, rather than something that someone could create unique to the game, but there are enough free emails out there that you can make one to use for bnet just as easily as you'd make one for anything else.
Tant, while I do not disagree with what you stated, applying the "computer generated" method to logging in an account for an MMO does not really apply.
It takes about 5 second to go through the attempted login process, no matter who or what is entering the data. Add to that the likelihood that after x amount of bad inputs, there will be a timed lockout of the account.(like 15 minutes lets say, after 3 bad attempts)
So, thats 5 seconds per attempt, plus 15 minutes every 3rd attempt... and well, its going to be years before all permutations are able to be attempted.(about 1934 years to be exact) if you can only enter 3 bad tries before a 15 minute lockout.
It's never been about brute forcing a person's password. It's about keyloggers, and always has been.
-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
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Nakal
Title: Moderator
Bad Moogle
Posts:
19,542
Registered:
Jul 9, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 19,238
User ID: 695,821
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Subject:
Account Banned
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Well I can GUARANTEE you I don't have keyloggers and my account got nailed less than 48 hours after removing my authenticator. Because if they had a keylogger, everything else could and would have been compromised. Including bank accounts, other game accounts etc..
-----signature-----
Currently in the MMO unemployment line.
Can I get $15/month for not playing them?
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Link to this post
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Quazimortal
Title: The One and Only
Posts:
17,806
Registered:
Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
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Subject:
Account Banned
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Nakal posted:
Well I can GUARANTEE you I don't have keyloggers
There is absolutely no possible way you can guarantee that.
-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.†~Leopold Stokowski
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Link to this post
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Nakal
Title: Moderator
Bad Moogle
Posts:
19,542
Registered:
Jul 9, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 19,238
User ID: 695,821
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Subject:
Account Banned
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Fine.. but it is more likely that i would win the lottery twice, then get struck by lightning twice at the same place on 2 separate occasions.
-----signature-----
Currently in the MMO unemployment line.
Can I get $15/month for not playing them?
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Link to this post
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-Peo-
Title: Caveat Lector
Posts:
3,208
Registered:
Feb 2, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 3,155
User ID: 1,024,262
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Subject:
Account Banned
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Odds, you do not understand them.
-----signature-----
SWTOR, Maybe in a year.
Back to WoW for now.
With a lil f2p CoH.
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Link to this post
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GutterSludge
Posts:
4,620
Registered:
Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
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Subject:
Account Banned
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Nakal,
I know to you it seems that "everything else" would be compromised...
But what would happen if your bank account was accessed through these means? Now we are talking SERIOUS felony, and serious investigation, and serious penalty for the 'hacker'.
These hackers do not want that risk. They just want your account, as there is absolutely NO PENALTY WHATSOEVER ANYWHERE for stealing your 'virtual gold' and or items, from an online game.
Your bank account: Some quick cash, very serious risk involved. Very serious penalties if caught. 100% chance of being investigated by law enforcement.
Your WOW account: Some quick cash, no risk whatsoever. No penalty if caught. 0% chance of being investigated by law enforcement.
Send blizzard an email, ask them how many times a bad password was entered before your account was successfully logged in to by the hackers. I guarantee you it was zero.
If you haven't found the key logger, you still have it.
-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
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Link to this post
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Nakal
Title: Moderator
Bad Moogle
Posts:
19,542
Registered:
Jul 9, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 19,238
User ID: 695,821
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Subject:
Account Banned
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I do NOT have one. For one: I dont run as an admin on my computer. 2: I clean viruses and also do computer forensics for a living. 3: My RIFT account and other game accounts are fine. Sorry, but Blizzard's Shoddy password system not supporting symbols or case sensitivity is most of the problem. Check this site out about passwords to see how simple passwords can easily be hacked. That is why my curent passwords are stronger now. https://www.grc.com/haystack.htm
-----signature-----
Currently in the MMO unemployment line.
Can I get $15/month for not playing them?
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_Warlucky_
Posts:
1,255
Registered:
Jul 20, '08
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 1,251
User ID: 1,310,012
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Subject:
Account Banned
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Nakal posted:
I do NOT have one. For one: I dont run as an admin on my computer. 2: I clean viruses and also do computer forensics for a living. 3: My RIFT account and other game accounts are fine. Sorry, but Blizzard's Shoddy password system not supporting symbols or case sensitivity is most of the problem. Check this site out about passwords to see how simple passwords can easily be hacked. That is why my curent passwords are stronger now. https://www.grc.com/haystack.htm
Nice, probably the best article I have read on password theory. His reference articles are worth a read also.
-----signature-----
(none)
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GutterSludge
Posts:
4,620
Registered:
Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
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Subject:
Account Banned
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Nakal posted:
is most of the problem.....
Ok, so what is the rest of the problem?
Did you email blizzard, tell them your qualifications, and ask how many incorrect passwords were used on your account before it was accessed?
If that answer is zero, are you still going to deny the possibility that you have a keylogger? Even in these days of drive by downloads that require a user do nothing but simply visit a malicious website?
Or are you telling us that you used the password "password", but typed it as "PasSw0rD"???
Then there is the issue of knowing your email address...did the hackers just "luckily guess" that too?
I'm really not trying to but your balls on this, but the "it's impossible for me to have a keylogger" attitude is why you have a job in the first place, no?
Edit: While that site is a good read for someone who has no clue about permutations, it does not apply here. No way in hell are you going through the login process to a Blizzard server more than once every few seconds, (as opposed to 33 billion tries per second 'scenario' the article points out) and unless your password is on one of those "stupid password lists", the article really doesn't apply, and fails to address how they got your email info as well.
If you really are in the 'business', why did you have to read that article to learn about stronger passwords? Are you still going to tell us that there is zero chance that you have a keylogger?
-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
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-Peo-
Title: Caveat Lector
Posts:
3,208
Registered:
Feb 2, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 3,155
User ID: 1,024,262
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Subject:
Account Banned
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Gutter, no one accepts responsibility for anything that goes wrong, it is always the other guy's fault.
Reality, circa now.
-----signature-----
SWTOR, Maybe in a year.
Back to WoW for now.
With a lil f2p CoH.
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Fedup23
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I have noticed a serious trend..everyone that been hacked always has an iron clad secure pc!!!! I have stumbled onto the answer...have an insecure computer!! I have never seen anyone come here after being hacked that says.."yeah..I had 4 keyloggers on my pc." There has to be a correlation.
I also love the people who hate Blizzard so much that they keep coming back.." just to check out the new zones".
But hey..I've bagged on em too..and I still log in here and there! 
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Ugh_Lancelot
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Nakal posted:
I do NOT have one. For one: I dont run as an admin on my computer.
lol...the sheer ignorance of this statement caused me to stop reading right there as I laughed hysterically and clicked the reply link to laugh at you in HTML.
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Nakal
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Actually, when it happened I DID call them. They couldn't answer the question, all they did was give me the run around about viruses and spyware. And yes, I did do checks on the computer. Trust me, the first thing that entered my mind was that I got some kind of keylogger. I was a bit more scared of ID theft and other more serious matters first.
Before calling I did check my computer for any possible virus or malware or rootkit or keylogger. This computer and my laptop both came up squeaky clean. I even had a colleague at work run scans on the drive to make sure I didn't miss anything. Also, it was he who told me that B.net did not support case sensitive passwords. This happened back in March and I am still running the same installation of Windows. My Rift account, my Steam account, my other accounts are just fine. Why only Battle.net/WoW? Plenty of Gold Farmers in RIFT too, and there have been hack attempts there as well. Why not other game accounts, or other accounts like Facebook or the like? I am pretty sure the people hacking these accounts don't care about felonies and the like. Look at Lulzsec or Anonymous. They have hacked everything lately from Sony to the Pentagon between the 2 of them.
I admit, I should have used a stronger password . That was my own fault. Of course I thought they would have at least supported case sensitivity but that is not the case. And when you factor out case sensitivity and lack of symbols, even an 8 character password with numbers/letters becomes relatively easy to hack. See the link I posted on how quick some of these passwords can be cracked without symbols/case sensitivity.
Ugh_Lancelot, yes I know not running as an admin can still allow malware to infect the current in-use profile. It is only a layer of security, not an end-all be-all. I am not that stupid. But it is a layer of prevention and does help keep malware from infecting system files or other profiles and good practice to follow.
I am not stupid when it comes to security and computer use. But I know I am not infallible which is why ran tons of scans on the machine and I had a colleague do some scans as well, just to be sure. For a week I wasn't sure if my drive was safe or not. But after thorough inspection 2 of us could not find anything. To this day the drive is clean (I even ran a few scans today after reading this thread to make sure). You can take my word on it or you can flame me. Fine, whatever, but I am being honest about the situation when I say having a keylogger is extremely remote.
Now I do not believe that Blizzard is selling accounts or any of that Jazz that people accuse them of. But, after recent events with Sony, Bioware and the like - I don't doubt the possibility of Blizzard being compromised, they are a big target. Also, I do not hate Blizzard. I loved WoW for 6 years. Yes Cata was a disappointment for me, but I still follow the game in hopes that it gets better.
I frankly was just upset my account gets compromised less than 48 hours after removing the authenticator, and the fact Blizzard does not at least support a strong password system. Also, admittedly, Gutter I did come out a bit strong when you mentioned keylogger. I should have replied stating I did everything under the sun to make sure I didn't and should have explained why I was sure in the first place. So for that, I apologize. At least if I had cited what I did, it may have been taken more seriously than my overly-defensive post.
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Quazimortal
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Nakal posted:
Wall of text.
Paragraphs. Learn em. Love em. Use em. 
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We provide the music, and you provide the silence.†~Leopold Stokowski
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Nakal
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Damn Chrome.... Ill fix it...
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GutterSludge
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I have one suggestion, and this has proven very reliable in the past for me in fixing the in laws virii related problems. This my not be any use to you, Nakal, but perhaps some others may find it useful.
Most virii can 'alter' your currently installed antivirus software to make itself appear to 'not be' a virus, and in that case some kind of external scan is needed to find anything malicious, as your installed antivirus software will not report on something it has been told is 'normal'. (or perhaps the virus is brand new, and doesn't fit any of the 'definitions' in the current program, and therefore is not flagged)
Go to www.Norman.com (NOT Norton, but Norman), and download their free 'Malicious Software Removal Tool'.(I think they want an email address these days, but no biggie there)
It costs nothing, is updated on a daily basis, and is one of the most reliable programs available for such situations, when an outside scan is what you need.
I am in no way affiliated with this company, but when my mother in law (or any of the rest of my relatives) calls me and says her computer is "acting funny AGAIN", this is where I turn for quick, reliable results.
There have been plenty of occasions when installed anti-virus scans show nothing, and Norman will wind up finding and eradicating 2 pages worth of crap off of a machine.
Again, Nakal, this may be of no use to you,(but it couldn't hurt)...so if anyone else might find it useful, well, there it is.
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Spookysheep
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Closed account information is being sold to chinese gold farmers by disgruntled blizzard employees.
Its not like its some big mystery or anything.
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Ugh_Lancelot
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Spookysheep posted:
Closed account information is being sold to chinese gold farmers by disgruntled blizzard employees.
Its not like its some big mystery or anything.
Here we go again with the inside job conspiracy.
Occam's razor pretty much disproves this on several levels.
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Rezzinu
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GutterSludge posted:
Go to www.Norman.com (NOT Norton, but Norman), and download their free 'Malicious Software Removal Tool'.(I think they want an email address these days, but no biggie there)
It costs nothing, is updated on a daily basis, and is one of the most reliable programs available for such situations, when an outside scan is what you need.
Just to let you know...I ran AVG and it found nothing. Then I ran this program you recommended...and to my surprise this was the result:
Norman said:
Total number of malicious objects found: 0
My machine is clean. Password was very strong and my WoW account was the only one hacked. Not my RIFT account, yahoo, hotmail, bank, etc.
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Ugh_Lancelot
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Rezzinu posted:
my WoW account was the only one hacked. Not my RIFT account, yahoo, hotmail, bank, etc.
The above information is spurious data and has no bearing on whether you have a keylogger or trojan or virus or whatever. You can't prove your other accounts data isn't in the hands of Bad People(tm), you can only prove they haven't used that data to cause you pain...yet.
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Rezzinu
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I guess it's easier to claim some one has something on their computer rather then believe them.
I've ran everything that was recommended and nothing has been found on my machine. I also have changed my passwords to a minimum of 10 characters long with a combination of uppercase/lowercase letters, symbols, and numbers. I run Firefox (latest edition) with no-script and ad-block.
If you have any other recommendations then please provide them.
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Ugh_Lancelot
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Rezzinu posted:
I guess it's easier to claim some one has something on their computer rather then believe them.
What is this, Religion? It isn't about belief: only what you can objectively prove. The point of the previous comments (just in case you jumped in after the meat and potato posts) was about whether, after being hacked in one game, you could definitively prove you weren't subject to being hacked in other games without taking certain measures. Frankly, the rest of us couldn't care less whether you're clean or not -- we're just poking holes in the "facts" people are naively presenting as hard evidence.
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Rezzinu
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I guess you'd rather sit here and argue then help. Seems like that's what VN (especially VN WoW) has turned into these days. Nothing but a bunch of arrogant grumpy [TOS] who like to scare off anyone who is not in their inner-circle. To those who have helped, thanks!
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Nakal
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Rezzinu posted:
I guess it's easier to claim some one has something on their computer rather then believe them. I've ran everything that was recommended and nothing has been found on my machine. I also have changed my passwords to a minimum of 10 characters long with a combination of uppercase/lowercase letters, symbols, and numbers. I run Firefox (latest edition) with no-script and ad-block. If you have any other recommendations then please provide them.
Agreed there. Though At least Gutter did offer another option with his link. I also tried it and came up clean. But it is nice to know another option is out there. What some people don't seem to think is that there are people who know what they are doing with computers and think everyone is a complete newb in dealing with viruses/spyware/rootkits/loggers etc.. (not you, Gutter, you offered an option, others just chose to flame)At the same time, Spooky, my account was still open when my account was compromised. That was the straw that broke the camels back as they say and then I cancelled my account. After putting a new authenticator on it that is.
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GutterSludge
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You both ran the full scan (not the quick scan), and did so while in safe mode?
If so, and you are still reporting clean, then awesome.
If we take malware completely off the table, then there are still several variables that need to be addressed.
1. Are you the only person that uses your account?
2. Are you the only person that ever uses that computer?
3. Do you use open wireless anywhere for connecting to WOW?
4. Do you use wireless in your home, in range of neighbors?
Again the thought is to eliminate as many possible venues as possible, so be honest please.
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Guttersludge
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NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
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Nakal
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1. Yes2. Desktop Yes - Laptop - My mother has used my laptop in the past. She has her own user account on it, no admin she does not play WoW. I check the laptop routinely for anything malicious when she borrows it. Always comes back clean. she has not used it in some time however.3. Desktop No (wired) - Used secure WPA2 wireless for laptop. Only used my laptop to play games over secure connections or wire. But TBH, i havent even used it since I got my tablet. If on an open connection, i tend to use HTTPS and avoid HTTP or use OpenVPN.4. Wireless is at the home. But only 1 neighbor in range, and it is an elderly couple. Wireless is locked down WPA2 - PSK/AES 256 12 character password on the router (upper/lower/number/symbol)I have done everything possible for a scan. Just need to face the fact this case it is not the end user. Yes Malware is a cause for a lot of it Trust me, I did full suites of scans, including the one you suggested. But lately with big companies getting hit by major hacking groups, is it that far fetched that they have stopped attacking the individual user and gone straight for the source?
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GutterSludge
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I know there have been plenty of people who say, quit playing for 1,2,6 months, and come back to a 'banned' account. We have collectively always found that to be suspicious at the very least, and recently I have given the hackers the benefit of the doubt as to them being very patient, and waiting for dormant periods in activity (as witness through a key logger) to strike.
Nothing can be ruled out with absolute certainty. Keep in mind also that (and I'm sure you are aware of this fully, but for the benefit of others) anti-virus software looks for two things: behavior, and known file names.
Behavior can be really easy to spot, depending on what it is. If a malicious program is trying to write to the boot sector, that shows up like a huge red flag, and most antivirus programs can "see" this type of behavior.
Known definitions are just that. A new trojan is designed, gets 'found', and then added to the 'list' for use in updated versions.
Behavior can also be really difficult to spot, if all it is doing is sending a few bytes of information to a certain location, intermingled with the other billions of bytes that we send and receive daily.
We are constantly seeing holes exploited in Windows, Adobe, and all kinds of common programs that people have running on their machines at all times. Alter one of those programs to do what you want, via security hole, and NO antivirus will pick it up.
Last August, Microshaft had to release an emergency patch to plug a serious hole in Windows itself. All a user had to do was VISIT a malicious site, and via the way website sounds were downloaded automatically, could be exposed to a trojan by simply visiting that site (never clicking on anything). Go to joebobs page, you have a trojan. Period.
In your situation, it almost appears that the individuals KNEW you had removed your authenticator, as they did the deed within 48 hours. In my mind there are 3 possibilities...
1. Inside job at Blizzard.
We get frustrated, and shout this, but we have to remember that Blizz can see the IP's that actually logged in to these 'hacked' accounts. They never tell us where they are from, but my guess is that if the were coming from a city where the have an office, it would be fairly obvious.
2. You have a keylogger, and nothing will detect it.
If the malicious program is 'better' than the tools used to attempt to remove it, it is not your fault. You have been diligent and taken every measure possible, but somehow still become infected. (possibly by a similar hole to the ones above), and nothing will find or remove it.
In this day and age, the only way to know for 100% certainty, is to format the drive.
3. With as many bogus emails that go to people, I have always wondered if somehow the email systems have been infected. I use Gmail. People use Hotmail, ISP mail, etc etc,. So what if Gmail has been infected, and every mail coming from Blizzard to anyone on Gmail is 'sniffed', and used in these operations.
Did you receive an Email 'confirming' the change to your account, when you dropped your authenticator?
Perhaps its a combination, I don't know. what we do know, is that:
#1 could give both password and email used for login.
#2 could give both password and email used for login.
#3 gives email, and information regarding the account (like a dropped authenticator), but usually will not have password in it.
Somehow the hackers got both, and 2 seems much much much more likely than 1, however 1 is not out of the realm of possibility. But if those records were accessed from inside Blizzard, they would more than likely have record of it.
If I were to have an account hacked, I personally would not hesitate to format. It is the one thing I can do that doesn't depend on updated definitions, Blizzard finding an inside culprit, or Gmail increasing its security.
And then of course, get the authenticator back on the account ASAP.
(and stop dropping your phone in the tub !!!) 
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njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
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Rezzinu
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GutterSludge posted:
1. Are you the only person that uses your account? Yes
2. Are you the only person that ever uses that computer? Yes - Wife has her own
3. Do you use open wireless anywhere for connecting to WOW? No - Hardwired to a router that is password protected.
4. Do you use wireless in your home, in range of neighbors? Yes - Only for the wife's laptop, and blu-ray player/Netflix.
Again the thought is to eliminate as many possible venues as possible, so be honest please.
My answers are in bold. I appreciate all the help you're providing!
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Spookysheep
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Ugh_Lancelot posted:
Spookysheep posted:
Closed account information is being sold to chinese gold farmers by disgruntled blizzard employees.
Its not like its some big mystery or anything.
Here we go again with the inside job conspiracy.
Occam's razor pretty much disproves this on several levels.
That word does not mean what you think it means.
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Nakal posted:
Well I can GUARANTEE you I don't have keyloggers and my account got nailed less than 48 hours after removing my authenticator. Because if they had a keylogger, everything else could and would have been compromised. Including bank accounts, other game accounts etc..
I guess you don't want to admit, your virtual items were worth more than your physical items :P
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Fist_de_Yuma posted:
There seems to be a flaw that allows people to find un-sub'ed accounts and steal them. Just what the flaw is, or if it is an inside job is not clear. Evidence shows many people have their accounts stolen after a few months of non use.
this has happened to me twice, both after breaks of over 3 months.
very strong passwords and the second time there was an authenticator on the account.
second time was ridiculously easy to get back...no where near as difficult as the first.
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Spookysheep
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Only a complete moron would not think it is an inside job at blizzard.
Just sayin'
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Ugh_Lancelot
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Spookysheep posted:
Only a complete moron would not think it is an inside job at blizzard.
Just sayin'
Mongo only pawn in game of life.
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Wolfpaw_We
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GutterSludge posted:
I know there have been plenty of people who say, quit playing for 1,2,6 months, and come back to a 'banned' account. We have collectively always found that to be suspicious at the very least, and recently I have given the hackers the benefit of the doubt as to them being very patient, and waiting for dormant periods in activity (as witness through a key logger) to strike.
If I were to run a full-scale WoW account hack operation with keyloggers, I would focus on gaining a steady stream of account information. After reaching a comfortable base level of available account information, I'd use the armory to scan which accounts are active (say, through achievements) and focus the hacks on dormant accounts. All this would be automated so that my employees would have a fresh list of good to go accounts to work on at the start of the shift. Active accounts would only be touched if safe accounts ran out.
And that keylogger? It'd clean itself off the computer after the account was reported as processed.
Hypothetically.
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My nephew started an account on one of my computers. This computer had the same protection my main has. It was connected to my net with a wire and my wireless is secure. He went to college and came back to play six months later. The computer he used had been sitting, as in shut down completely, from the day he left. He found the account hacked.
It is easy to blame the user. I'll admit that I blamed the user as well because I've found so many computer users will fall for just about any trick there is. This was not the case with my nephew. He is a sharp young man who knows bad actions can get him removed from my house.
With so many people losing accounts with no apparent reason we can only assume that there is a hole in Blizzard's security. There is no proof of course; it is just where the logic leads us.
One thing I know for sure. No one is "hacking" the passwords. There is too long a delay with log in check for this to work. A computer would have to be checking millions of names and numbers to use a brut force attack. I just don't see how that as possible. Now if there is a way around the slow password acceptance/rejection I'll change my mind. Brut force takes hundreds if not thousands of attack per minute if not seconds to worth the effort.
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Using a GPU in place of a CPU makes brute forcing a million times faster/easier. It's been described as "A CPU reads a book page by page, a GPU tears the book into millions of pieces and reads them all at once".
Just throwing that out there.
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Arcilite_I
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That said, I still believe it's a person or persons at Blizzard supplementing their salary.
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regulator_cracka
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IT IS NOT AN INSIDE JOB AT BLIZZARD!! 
Oh wait.... 
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Acao
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Could the passwords be getting highjacked outside the users computer while being transmitted to Blizzard? This is at bit a tin foil hat idea but would explain many of the idle accounts being hacked.
Edit: Meant to imply that the passwords are getting intercepted on the net.
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Acao Freestar OSS
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-Abysmal-
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after my first account banning due to it being *lost* i came back on a brand new out of the box computer.
unless HP puts keyloggers on in the factory, you can not blame this user.
there was literally only what came with the computer, MS-SE, windows & it's updates and WoW and it's updates.
blizzard account associated sites were the only websites visited.
the computer was used for nothing else.
used the mobile authenticator on an ipod also...which come to find out was removed.
after looking back at the emails, account was *activated* both times exactly 96 days apart, and banned shortly thereafter.
password was not changed from when i left either.
point the finger at me all you want...i couldn't care less...i know it wasn't anything i caused.
the second time i got the account AND items restored (and then some  ) within 30 minutes and wasn't even charged for the month because the payment was disputed by the *hackers* CC company.
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Now i LIVESTRONG GO PATRIOTS Yankees SUCK! I wish AC looked better, I miss it I love you forever Jamie
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Fedup23
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-Abysmal- posted:
after my first account banning due to it being *lost* i came back on a brand new out of the box computer.
unless HP puts keyloggers on in the factory, you can not blame this user.
there was literally only what came with the computer, MS-SE, windows & it's updates and WoW and it's updates.
blizzard account associated sites were the only websites visited.
the computer was used for nothing else.
used the mobile authenticator on an ipod also...which come to find out was removed.
after looking back at the emails, account was *activated* both times exactly 96 days apart, and banned shortly thereafter.
password was not changed from when i left either.
point the finger at me all you want...i couldn't care less...i know it wasn't anything i caused.
the second time i got the account AND items restored (and then some ) within 30 minutes and wasn't even charged for the month because the payment was disputed by the *hackers* CC company.
Im confused..the account on the brand new clean pc was hacked 96 days after you opened it?
Also..did you have virus protection setup before you ventured over to blizzards account site? Other PCs on a network?
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-Abysmal-
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Fedup23 posted:
Im confused..the account on the brand new clean pc was hacked 96 days after you opened it?
Also..did you have virus protection setup before you ventured over to blizzards account site? Other PCs on a network?
96 days after my account went inactive BOTH times it was reactivated by the "hacker"
Kaspersky(sp?) was running on it for the first 30 days(then i switched to MS Security Essentials)...came with computer...that's the one thing i forgot above that had *access* on the computer.
no other PC's on the network...i have my network, and i have the punk ass kids/porn/xbox/netflix network...completely separated.
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Now i LIVESTRONG GO PATRIOTS Yankees SUCK! I wish AC looked better, I miss it I love you forever Jamie
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GutterSludge
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Arcilite_I posted:
Using a GPU in place of a CPU makes brute forcing a million times faster/easier. It's been described as "A CPU reads a book page by page, a GPU tears the book into millions of pieces and reads them all at once".
Just throwing that out there.
Arc, try logging in 5 times with a bad password, and time yourself.
No matter how fast you type, or a gpu enters the information, there is the login delay to deal with, (which you cannot get around) which makes the above theory for brute forcing a WOW account all but impossible.
No matter how many pieces you can come up with, only one can be entered at a time. (And that's IF you know the email address)
Just throwing it out there.
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Guttersludge
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Fedup23
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-Abysmal- posted:
Fedup23 posted:
Im confused..the account on the brand new clean pc was hacked 96 days after you opened it?
Also..did you have virus protection setup before you ventured over to blizzards account site? Other PCs on a network?
96 days after my account went inactive BOTH times it was reactivated by the "hacker"
Kaspersky(sp?) was running on it for the first 30 days(then i switched to MS Security Essentials)...came with computer...that's the one thing i forgot above that had *access* on the computer.
no other PC's on the network...i have my network, and i have the punk ass kids/porn/xbox/netflix network...completely separated.
I see.  Interesting.
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