Ferrydust
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http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/200866-banned-for-afking-a-bg/
Guy says he was caught afking in BG's and got a 3 hour suspension. ARE YOU JOKING ME?
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I, on the other hand, prefer a command-line system 'cause i'm so hardcore
/north /north *You encounter an [Avatar of the god Set]!*
/cast sheild *sheild spell unavailable*
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*[Avatar of Set] beheads [Peasant]*
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Kriegprojekt
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This makes me really mad
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Didnt read the thread but..
Was he botting or just afk?
Cant really blame Blizzard. 3 hour ban still allows them to keep the sub going.
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Ferrydust
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He said afking but I am pretty sure he meant botting. IE not at the keyboard but using some program to keep him from getting flagged afk.
And I CAN blame Blizzard. It used to be a perma ban wayyy back in the day so you never saw any bots. Now that it is a slap on the wrist bots are everywhere in BG's. Blizzard would still keep it's subs because people would be afraid to bot... but not now.
( And by now I mean the past few years )
-----signature-----
I, on the other hand, prefer a command-line system 'cause i'm so hardcore
/north /north *You encounter an [Avatar of the god Set]!*
/cast sheild *sheild spell unavailable*
/csat shield *csat: unknown command*
*[Avatar of Set] beheads [Peasant]*
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Ugh_Lancelot
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What's more sad than bots in BGs is when PVP-specific boards are 50/50 for/against botting in BGs. There's a point where, IMO, you realize something's awfully wrong with the system itself, not just with the people AFK'ing.
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Ferrydust
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This makes me really mad
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Ugh_Lancelot posted:
What's more sad than bots in BGs is when PVP-specific boards are 50/50 for/against botting in BGs. There's a point where, IMO, you realize something's awfully wrong with the system itself, not just with the people AFK'ing.
It's because people are lazy imo. They want something for nothing no matter how much it affects their teams chances of winning. Yes. They are just bad people. If people don't like doing BG's then they shouldn't do them. That doesn't give them a free pass to waste everyone elses time as they bot.
-----signature-----
I, on the other hand, prefer a command-line system 'cause i'm so hardcore
/north /north *You encounter an [Avatar of the god Set]!*
/cast sheild *sheild spell unavailable*
/csat shield *csat: unknown command*
*[Avatar of Set] beheads [Peasant]*
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darren_cameron
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This makes me really mad
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Ferrydust posted:
http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/200866-banned-for-afking-a-bg/
Guy says he was caught afking in BG's and got a 3 hour suspension. ARE YOU JOKING ME?
Sounds like Blizz is going in the absolutely wrong direction.
One of the primary reasons I cancelled was my increasing frustration with Blizzard's refusal to slap serious suspensions (I mean like a month or more), or outright cancellation of chronic botters/afkers. I'd have been happy if they just banned them from pvp, and let them pve. But 3 hours? That's a joke and an insult. Seemed to me Blizz just wanted their money, they don't give a flying frak about the quality of play for people who actually show up to pvp.
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Bremen_Gaheris
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This makes me really mad
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Ferrydust posted:
Ugh_Lancelot posted:
What's more sad than bots in BGs is when PVP-specific boards are 50/50 for/against botting in BGs. There's a point where, IMO, you realize something's awfully wrong with the system itself, not just with the people AFK'ing.
It's because people are lazy imo. They want something for nothing no matter how much it affects their teams chances of winning. Yes. They are just bad people. If people don't like doing BG's then they shouldn't do them. That doesn't give them a free pass to waste everyone elses time as they bot.
I disagree. It doesn't make them bad people, just normal for taking the path of least resistance in a video game. I submit that the players playing by the rules like it matters in real life are doing it wrong as the system currently stands. Overall, though, it is the developers faults for making a flawed system and refusing to do anything to it.
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Broken_Kayfabe
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The inevitable consequence of rewarding losing and putting forward no effort.
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Thanks, but it's been fun
Five more minutes then I'm done!
I've been saying that to myself since
...yesterday.
- from "Has anybody seen my corpse". Man Everquest rocked back in the day...
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Kriegprojekt
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This makes me really mad
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Ferrydust posted:
He said afking but I am pretty sure he meant botting. IE not at the keyboard but using some program to keep him from getting flagged afk.
And I CAN blame Blizzard. It used to be a perma ban wayyy back in the day so you never saw any bots. Now that it is a slap on the wrist bots are everywhere in BG's. Blizzard would still keep it's subs because people would be afraid to bot... but not now.
( And by now I mean the past few years )
Yeah I know what you mean. Look at it from the opposite way though. Its great for Blizzard because all those people who want to bot but were afraid to loose accounts if they got caught, will now reup again because the penalties arent so severe. Win win for Blizz.
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Demorak
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This makes me really mad
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Broken_Kayfabe posted:
The inevitable consequence of rewarding losing and putting forward no effort.
Read: Bad Design 101
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Hornet_MT
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This makes me really mad
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Solution: Give everyone the same gear (Class defined) for PVPing... make the rewards solely titles and "fluff" (good fluff) based purely on performance.
Thus everyone is on an equal footing, nobody benefits from afk botting and there is a true goal to acheive something in the BG.
I just don't understand why this has never been implemented. I like to PVP occasionally, but my gear is so terribad (as I rarely PVP) that there is no point.
Whilst I am sure there are supporters for the current system, I cannot understand what argument they have past the "i liek to killl n33wbs with my l33t gear"
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Shenron_
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wouldn't a more appropriate and simple solution be to award merit instead of the communist system we have now? as it is now everyone gets the same reward and we are forced to group and share kill points even. a stupid system that makes it so all you have to do is be logged on for many hours to get the rewards.
how about a system where if you do something you get rewarded for it and if you don't do something you don't get anything...sounds like such a crazy idea in mmos these days where everything is based almost entirely on the number of hours you spend. it would be fair to all roles...for example in warhammer you got extra points for the amount of hps you healed or the damage you did etc.
or they could make things really simple and just let us leave the group and make our own as they used to in bgs.
i am also reminded of how while leveling my druid using dungeon finder the last few weeks, so often a player would join the dungeon and then just sit at the entrance afk the entire time until he was kicked and leech a few bars of free exp. and we couldn't kick him for like 15 minutes because WoW is so communist.
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Voqar
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This makes me really mad
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Bremen_Gaheris posted:
I disagree. It doesn't make them bad people, just normal for taking the path of least resistance in a video game. I submit that the players playing by the rules like it matters in real life are doing it wrong as the system currently stands. Overall, though, it is the developers faults for making a flawed system and refusing to do anything to it.
Um. Yeah. Sorry, no. Cheating is cheating and not acceptable period. Maybe their parents are bad people for breeding and raising scumbags.
People who feel the need to cheat at a simple video game like WoW, via botting, buying gold, buying toons, etc, are just pathetic human trash.
Condoning cheating is even more idiotic.
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Shenron_
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cheating or buying gold and such in a video game may be lame, but its not an issue of morals or being good or bad...its just a game which is designed to be fun however it is played.
but the people who get all crazy on forums and such about it are human trash. maybe its their parents fault for breeding scumbags like that but its just not acceptable to get all crazy and insulting others over video games. its just idiotic.
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Arcilite_I
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The only reason people complain about cheaters is because they're winning.
Get some tiger blood or gtfo imo
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PvPing since 1977
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Fedup23
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This makes me really mad
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Shenron_ posted:
cheating or buying gold and such in a video game may be lame, but its not an issue of morals or being good or bad...its just a game which is designed to be fun however it is played.
but the people who get all crazy on forums and such about it are human trash. maybe its their parents fault for breeding scumbags like that but its just not acceptable to get all crazy and insulting others over video games. its just idiotic.
 
QFT...its just a video game..Id hate to see how you "handle" real problems. 
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Quazimortal
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This makes me really mad
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Fedup23 posted:
Shenron_ posted:
cheating or buying gold and such in a video game may be lame, but its not an issue of morals or being good or bad...its just a game which is designed to be fun however it is played.
but the people who get all crazy on forums and such about it are human trash. maybe its their parents fault for breeding scumbags like that but its just not acceptable to get all crazy and insulting others over video games. its just idiotic.
QFT...its just a video game..Id hate to see how you "handle" real problems.
I hear a lead pipe works well.
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We provide the music, and you provide the silence.†~Leopold Stokowski
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Hornet_MT
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This makes me really mad
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Voqar posted:
Um. Yeah. Sorry, no. Cheating is cheating and not acceptable period. Maybe their parents are bad people for breeding and raising scumbags.
People who feel the need to cheat at a simple video game like WoW, via botting, buying gold, buying toons, etc, are just pathetic human trash.
Are you for real... "pathetic human trash" - because you bought gold!!
OMG, how would your describe a kiddie fiddler...
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-Peo-
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Comparative morality FTL.
If you cheat, you cheat. Period. You lack ethics, you are doing something against the rules. Where and when you do this is inconsequential. Where does the slide rule end? If I punched you in the face, would it be okay to rationalize that I didn't actually kill you, so it is okay? Cuz that is what you are saying, that becuz it is only a game, it is okay.
If something is wrong, it is wrong, no matter where, when, why or how.
Shenron_ posted:
cheating or buying gold and such in a video game may be lame, but its not an issue of morals or being good or bad...its just a game which is designed to be fun however it is played.
Wrong, it is absolutely about morals. Absolutely. Because you have weak morals and don't understand ethics is not a reason to proclaim cheating okay in any medium. The fact that is doesn't matter to you has no bearing on whether or not it is wrong.
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Arunne
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-Peo- posted:
Comparative morality FTL.
If you cheat, you cheat. Period. You lack ethics, you are doing something against the rules. Where and when you do this is inconsequential. Where does the slide rule end? If I punched you in the face, would it be okay to rationalize that I didn't actually kill you, so it is okay? Cuz that is what you are saying, that becuz it is only a game, it is okay.
If something is wrong, it is wrong, no matter where, when, why or how.
It would be ok as long as you got a 3 day suspension!
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Quazimortal
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This makes me really mad
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-Peo- posted:
Comparative morality FTL.
If you cheat, you cheat. Period. You lack ethics, you are doing something against the rules. Where and when you do this is inconsequential. Where does the slide rule end? If I punched you in the face, would it be okay to rationalize that I didn't actually kill you, so it is okay? Cuz that is what you are saying, that becuz it is only a game, it is okay.
If something is wrong, it is wrong, no matter where, when, why or how.
Horrible comparison.
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We provide the music, and you provide the silence.†~Leopold Stokowski
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Shenron_
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you don't seem to understand what morals and ethics are. i suggest taking a class at the local community college. maybe go for an associates degree while you are at it. good luck
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Fedup23
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My brother was banned from being "the banker" when we would play monopoly..he ended up with too many 500's all of the time. In every phase of his life he is a great guy..there 100% of the time no questions for his child, family, friends and work..but unfortunately...we have to call him "human trash" because he takes fake cash from the fake bank.
He has zero ethics or morals. 
In my world we laugh about silly stuff like that in GAMES.......
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-Peo-
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Shenron_ posted:
you don't seem to understand what morals and ethics are. i suggest taking a class at the local community college. maybe go for an associates degree while you are at it. good luck
*shrug* Your ignorance does not mean I am wrong. You confuse you own sense of values with morals and ethics. They are not the same thing. You have a sliding scale of honesty, good for you, just don't expect other people to have the same shaky morals. Also, don't get me wrong, I am not a saint, I break the rules. The difference is, I know I have broken the rules and I know that it is wrong to do so.
As far as the brother analogy, who cares, doing good things does not excuse doing bad things. I am sure if that person shot a nun, because he was great the rest of his life, it would be ok, right? That is what comparative morality is, you are deciding what is ok to let slide. The problem is, those things are still against the rules. The severity of the incident is irrelevant.
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Shenron_
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so all that determines what is moral or ethical is if its against the rules/law? oh wow so all those dictators killing people have great morals afterall! and gandhi had weak morals apparently. it all makes sense now!
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Sprawl-zero1eye-
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Saddens me that people who are dedicated enough to a game to come chat about it on the forums when they aren't playing, still try to blow it off as "just a game" and "no big deal". Obviously, we are people who care, to some extent or another, and that lackadaisical approach is beneath us.
Cheating in a game shows that a person will easily cheat in real life. After all, if you cheat when it doesn't matter, what will you do when your family, life, job, et cetera are on the line? Cheat? Yep.
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Fedup23
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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:
Saddens me that people who are dedicated enough to a game to come chat about it on the forums when they aren't playing, still try to blow it off as "just a game" and "no big deal". Obviously, we are people who care, to some extent or another, and that lackadaisical approach is beneath us.
Cheating in a game shows that a person will easily cheat in real life. After all, if you cheat when it doesn't matter, what will you do when your family, life, job, et cetera are on the line? Cheat? Yep.
Your comparison to a game vs family life or job is "beneath" me. I would never lower myself to putting a game on those same levels. Its obvious to me that you take playing games way too seriously to even compare the two... and the guy that compared shooting a nun to being AFK in a BG or buying gold.. seek help..because severity of incident IS what its all about.
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Sprawl-zero1eye-
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The point is that we all draw the line somewhere. Some people draw it so low that they will cheat in any circumstance that cheating will allow them to get ahead.
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NukeMage
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So who gets to decide what is "severe" enough to warrant following the rules, and what isn't? The whole reason rules are there in the first place are to make it clear as to what acceptable and unacceptable behaviors are, and to establish punishments if acceptable behaviors are not followed.
I would not go as far as calling someone human scum for cheating in a video game. However, it is still wrong and should warrant a punishment of some sort. Temporary bans (of hours to days, maybe weeks for repeated offenses) I personally believe are a fitting repercussions for breaking the rules in an MMORPG, along with the loss of ill gotten gains.
I got an account banned in AC for macroing; I knew it was against the rules, and I figured that it was worth the risk compared to the potential banning and chance of being caught. Now that account is lost to me; I learned my lesson and I have moved on in life.
If you break the rules, be prepared to accept the consequences. Regardless if it is in a board game, MMORPG, or real life. Flimsy ass excuses to justify your actions, especially when you previously agree to abide by the rules, just makes you look lame.
Maybe I still would do something of that nature (though it is highly unlikely) in the future, however, I would be willing to accept whatever happens IF I did so.
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Shenron_
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rules are just guidelines...they are meant to be broken at times. whether its buying gold in a video game or driving 5 miles over the speed limit or drinking a sip of wine when you are 20 years old i don't think there is any correlation at all to "cheating to get ahead in real life" like stealing or hurting someone. there is no line to be drawn since they are unrelated things. if everyone in history followed the rules to the letter the world would be a crappy place.
if anything i would be more worried about the people who can mass generalize everything into black and white like that...they are the type who can do anything no matter how crazy as long as they can rationalize it as legal or moral to themselves.
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Sprawl-zero1eye-
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I wouldn't say rules are guidelines, that is just a license to do whatever you want, but you are correct, life is not black and white and should not be viewed that way.
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Bremen_Gaheris
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Wow, this debate got crazy fast. Guys, seriously, this is just a video game. "Human trash" is way too descriptive to use for people that take advantage of a flawed system in a video game. I don't condone it, just saying that there is no need to threaten death penalty for video game cheaters.
And I think everyone is losing sight of the fact that it is the game's fault and Blizzard's fault that this is allowable. They built the system. Any flaws in the system are not the players faults, write it down cause it is indisputable. Remember "if you build it, they will come"? If the players built the game, I would totally concede the point.
And Shenron telling Quazi to go to school to learn morals in an extremely condescending manner is a ridiculous personal attack. You learn your morals LONG before you ever make it to even high school and if you haven't learned good morals by then...well, you are going to be enjoying a lot of prison time anyway. Maybe you should go to school as well to learn how to tell the difference between reality and video games?
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Shenron_
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no since he was using the words wrongly i was just suggesting he should learn what they mean. they teach classes on ethics and such in college. and it was directed at that other guy of course
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Fedup23
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Well.. I'll just leave it that I dont agree with some of the black and white ideas here. "Wrong is wrong" just doesnt cut it for me. If there were no degrees of severity we would be in quite a pickle.
Off the subject.. does that NE up in the corner look like she is having a wardrobe malfunction or is it an optical illusion! 
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TruthyID
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I find the punishment to be pretty ironic. Punishing someone for not playing your game for a few hours by making them not play your game for another few hours is pretty ridiculous.
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Quazimortal
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Bremen_Gaheris posted:
And Shenron telling Quazi to go to school to learn morals in an extremely condescending manner is a ridiculous personal attack.
Eh? He was talking to me? I read that and figured he was talking to Peo.
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Bremen_Gaheris
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Quazimortal posted:
Bremen_Gaheris posted:
And Shenron telling Quazi to go to school to learn morals in an extremely condescending manner is a ridiculous personal attack.
Eh? He was talking to me? I read that and figured he was talking to Peo.
Oops, my bad guys, must have misread that. My other points still stand.
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and noone is actually getting hurt which takes away the guilt of watching.
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Fist_de_Yuma
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Cheating is destructive. Acceptance of cheating is a disaster.
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Stupid, ignorant or evil
The result is always evil but the intent is not always evil. Not that it makes much difference in the long run.
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Ansithe
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Cheating in Wow is serious business. This should be directed to the FBI and the culprits should spend some time in jail. A section of Guantanamo Bay should be opened up for Wow cheaters.
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GutterSludge
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Am I the only person that sees this as an improvement??
The guy got reported, and action was actually taken...
This is leaps and bounds better than the inaction of the past, and now he has a "mark" on his record...which I'm sure will be considered the next time he gets reported..
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People just can't handle the truth.
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Ferrydust
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GutterSludge posted:
Am I the only person that sees this as an improvement??
The guy got reported, and action was actually taken...
This is leaps and bounds better than the inaction of the past, and now he has a "mark" on his record...which I'm sure will be considered the next time he gets reported..
Yeah, you may be right. Since I don't know his previous record, if he has one, it's hard to say. The thread has advanced since then. But 3 hours is silly... for a bot. (If he was a bot. which I am assuming) I want bots perma banned.
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PallyDog
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Bremen_Gaheris posted:
And I think everyone is losing sight of the fact that it is the game's fault and Blizzard's fault that this is allowable. They built the system. Any flaws in the system are not the players faults, write it down cause it is indisputable. Remember "if you build it, they will come"? If the players built the game, I would totally concede the point.
If I get robbed it's my fault because I let them do it? The "fault" of wrong doing falls on the person who does the action. Just becasue people can get away with beign lazy doesn't mean the game is flawed or that it's the developer's fault they take advantage of the system.
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-Peo-
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PallyDog posted:
Bremen_Gaheris posted:
And I think everyone is losing sight of the fact that it is the game's fault and Blizzard's fault that this is allowable. They built the system. Any flaws in the system are not the players faults, write it down cause it is indisputable. Remember "if you build it, they will come"? If the players built the game, I would totally concede the point.
If I get robbed it's my fault because I let them do it? The "fault" of wrong doing falls on the person who does the action. Just becasue people can get away with beign lazy doesn't mean the game is flawed or that it's the developer's fault they take advantage of the system.
Not many people here have the desire to take responsibility for their actions, it is always someone else's fault. It is typical of today's youth, no integrity.
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Blisteringballs
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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:
Cheating in a game shows that a person will easily cheat in real life. After all, if you cheat when it doesn't matter, what will you do when your family, life, job, et cetera are on the line? Cheat? Yep.
It's crazy to me how you can't understand how people approach video games far differently than they do day to day, real life situations. Or even how the two can be directly compared.
Your flawed reasoning leads to the same arguments old lawyers make about violent games and why they need to be censored.
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NukeMage
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Blisteringballs posted:
Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:
Cheating in a game shows that a person will easily cheat in real life. After all, if you cheat when it doesn't matter, what will you do when your family, life, job, et cetera are on the line? Cheat? Yep.
It's crazy to me how you can't understand how people approach video games far differently than they do day to day, real life situations. Or even how the two can be directly compared.
Your flawed reasoning leads to the same arguments old lawyers make about violent games and why they need to be censored.
If the video game was Super Mario Bros or something that like, where there were no real people at the other end who were directly affected by your cheating, then it would be a nonissue. However, in an MMORPG where there is rampant cheating, the other players and the game as a whole suffer. If you do not care about screwing other people over, continue cheating away. Just do not try and justify your actions or say it doesn't matter or that it is "just a game"
If you need an example of this, just look at the history of Asheron's Call. .
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Blisteringballs
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Again, just a game. It's just a game.
I love playing GTA4 and running people over, killing hookers and cops and causing mayhem. In real life I get squeamish at the thought of someone merely getting hurt, blood makes me downright nauseous. I donate about a hundred bucks a year to a local charity focused on getting young women off the streets.
Cheating in a MMO, which may have some ancillary effect on a person's time? Leisure time at that? While they're playing a video game? That would somehow make me capable of crossing my own moral boundaries in real life? Insanity. The value of a person's leisure activities of course has an arbitrary value. But getting set back ten minutes in a MMO or other on-line game, the time it takes for me to just either leave or jump into a new lobby, is not in any way comparable to if I lied on a job application or something.
These are different universes you're comparing. If you can't understand that then I suggest you take a step back and reflect why it is you're investing so much emotion and importance into on-line video games. That's the real problem, and why you are carrying such a torch.
EDIT: I realize I kind of straw manned you there, but still, equating real life grievances to circumventing rules or edicts in a MMO - that's an amazing leap of logic and multifaceted fallacy
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NukeMage
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Again, you justify cheating by saying it is only a minor inconvenience of someone's time and really has no affect on their real life. I am NOT saying that cheating in an MMORPG is the same severity as cheating in something in real life, like taxes or on your significant other. However, there are (if ever so slight) real life consequences of cheating (selling gold/items for real life cash, for example) in MMORPG's which can affect peoples real lives IF the cheating is allowed to go on unchecked. Especially for the game developer/publisher in the form of lost revenue (and eventually lost jobs) due to "legit" players leaving in relatively high numbers.
Again, anyone who is familiar with the history of Asheron's Call can attest to the effect that macroing/duping had on subscription numbers back in the day Who knows how much more successful the game would of been if they had tried to stop those activities earlier in the game's life?
I feel sorry for you if you are not able to comprehend how stuff like cheating in an MMORPG has a ripple effect that can touch on many other things, maybe different things for different people, but as a whole the result is extremely negative and hurts not only the players but the game company itself.
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Blisteringballs
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Ok, well, I think we're still placing more or less value on intangible things here. And also time. And I think time spent gaming, and any artifact therein, becomes unhealthy if you value them the way you apparently do.
Some guy at my workplace lies about, well whatever, and that costs me a promotion. That's obviously impactful and serious. For me and my family.
A bunch of Chinese farmers run bots and gather ore in WoW faster than real human beings can and make me spend a few more hours each week than I usually would to earn the gold I need to buy the "new hotness". Or faster horses. Or whatever.
Or a bunch of people exploit in WoW and make my arena rating drop in a given month.
?
You have to see the obvious difference in real life value here.
Are the exploiters really "harming" anyone? Are they really costing you money? Emotional distress?
My man. Take a step back.
And no, I do not cheat or exploit.
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Broken_Kayfabe
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So basically you're saying cheating isn't a big deal because it's just a game.
Bully for you for not caring, I guess. But I wouldn't play a game in real life with people who cheat, and most games in real life have controls to prevent it from happening. Those who can't prevent it, I don't participate in.
Unfortunately in a mmorpg I don't have that choice. If I want to play WoW, I have to play Blizzard's WoW, and if they don't control their cheaters, I don't have much in the way of options.
Not controlling the PvP cheaters was a fairly decent part of why I'm half a year since I last gave Blizzard a dime.
So you can bleat all you want about how it's not a big deal because it's not like someone is murdering children or something, but yeah it impacted my gameplay and I blame both Blizzard and the cheaters themselves for not controlling it, and will remember it in the future.
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-Peo-
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Mind boggling to see people completely miss the point. Wrong is wrong, regardless of your rationalization of it is just a game.
Integrity is integrity, there are no caveats.
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GutterSludge
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Go to Vegas, and "cheat" at a "game" there...
Just don't be surprised if some men in suits with skinny ties escort you out "the back way"....
To me this argument is all easily resolved..
When you purchase, install, and login the first time to WOW, YOU AGREE NOT TO CHEAT IN THE GAME....
If you feel that somehow you do not have to abide by that agreement, then you are a cawkflop, plain and simple.
If you cannot play the game within this agreement, quit the game.
It isn't about real life vs "a game"..it's about living up to an agreement that you made, knowingly and willingly...period.
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Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
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Fedup23
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Blisteringballs posted:
Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:
Cheating in a game shows that a person will easily cheat in real life. After all, if you cheat when it doesn't matter, what will you do when your family, life, job, et cetera are on the line? Cheat? Yep.
It's crazy to me how you can't understand how people approach video games far differently than they do day to day, real life situations. Or even how the two can be directly compared.
Your flawed reasoning leads to the same arguments old lawyers make about violent games and why they need to be censored.
You arent going to get through to some people with your argument.. I have tried to step outside of my view and stand on their side of the fence and all I can come up with is that this game (or other MMORPGs) become MORE than "just a game" to some people. or me its never been more than just a game.. others allow it to become more. Just like everything in life.. you cant understand/agree with everyone.  I guess we are lucky that there are so many different opinions on everything, it would seem funny if everyone wandered through life agreeing on everything.
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Fedup23
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-Peo- posted:
Mind boggling to see people completely miss the point. Wrong is wrong, regardless of your rationalization of it is just a game.
Integrity is integrity, there are no caveats.
Have you managed to never do anything "wrong".. however minor? 
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darren_cameron
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-Peo- posted:
Mind boggling to see people completely miss the point. Wrong is wrong, regardless of your rationalization of it is just a game.
Integrity is integrity, there are no caveats.
Well said indeed.
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NukeMage
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The point I am trying to make is, that there is a "butterfly effect" which occurs from wide spread cheating in an MMORPG which does affect some people in real life. Real people lose their jobs in the gaming industry when subscription numbers fall, real people get scammed trying to purchase in game currency from third party sites, real people get frustrated and quit a game they love because they can no longer compete with cheaters.
So please tell me how these things are of no consequence?
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Groooovechampion
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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:
Saddens me that people who are dedicated enough to a game to come chat about it on the forums when they aren't playing, still try to blow it off as "just a game" and "no big deal". Obviously, we are people who care, to some extent or another, and that lackadaisical approach is beneath us.
Cheating in a game shows that a person will easily cheat in real life. After all, if you cheat when it doesn't matter, what will you do when your family, life, job, et cetera are on the line? Cheat? Yep.
Regarding this botting matter and the "lousy slap on the wrist", I'm pretty much sure this is a recurring thing.
Yet again, we have to look back at Daoc as an example. Buffbotting was considered bad, dishonorable, younameit (and it was not even possible to alt-tab out of daoc without the client crashing; ie, no windowed mode). But then that was "dropped" and the influx of buffbotting and whatnots just came rolling in.
I am not surprised to see this happening in wow after several years.
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-Peo-
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Fedup23 posted:
-Peo- posted:
Mind boggling to see people completely miss the point. Wrong is wrong, regardless of your rationalization of it is just a game.
Integrity is integrity, there are no caveats.
Have you managed to never do anything "wrong".. however minor?
Read the post.
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Ugh_Lancelot
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Groooovechampion posted:
Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:
Saddens me that people who are dedicated enough to a game to come chat about it on the forums when they aren't playing, still try to blow it off as "just a game" and "no big deal". Obviously, we are people who care, to some extent or another, and that lackadaisical approach is beneath us.
Cheating in a game shows that a person will easily cheat in real life. After all, if you cheat when it doesn't matter, what will you do when your family, life, job, et cetera are on the line? Cheat? Yep.
Regarding this botting matter and the "lousy slap on the wrist", I'm pretty much sure this is a recurring thing.
Yet again, we have to look back at Daoc as an example. Buffbotting was considered bad, dishonorable, younameit (and it was not even possible to alt-tab out of daoc without the client crashing; ie, no windowed mode). But then that was "dropped" and the influx of buffbotting and whatnots just came rolling in.
I am not surprised to see this happening in wow after several years.
I guess you weren't around for the ensuing change to make buffs have a 50 yard range and only affect group members for things like end/res, eh?
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