Author Topic: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
TruthyID 
Posts: 365
Registered: Jul 7, '10
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 365
User ID: 1,397,686
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
An article posted on curse.com today confirmed what many people have suspected, Cataclysm is causing the population to decline. According to Mike Morhaime, CEO of Blizzard, sub numbers were down about 5% (~600,000) by the end of March. Morhaime went on to say that "subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions."

The full text of the article can be found at http://www.curse.com/articles/world-of-warcraft-news/956087.aspx

 

-----signature-----
(none)
Link to this post
Kriegprojekt 
Posts: 2,653
Registered: Apr 12, '10
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 2,591
User ID: 1,390,814
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
5% is a considerable amount too. I wonder if Blizz will see a further decline as the summer opens up and people start going outside more often. Im also curious if any of the new changes in April and now in May will stop/reverse the attrition.

 

-----signature-----
http://www.immortal-guild.com/
Deepstrike Server
Milkman - Guardian Bard
Link to this post
croaks35 
Posts: 127
Registered: Jul 20, '09
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 127
User ID: 1,364,192
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
What I find funny is his sugar coating why numbers have dropped

But one important thing to point out, and Mr. Morhaime touched on this as well, is that World of Warcraft's subscriber base does not change linearly. It fluctuates based on content consumption, which players seem to be doing a whole lot of -- at a more rapid pace -- with Cataclysm. "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions," he said.


Most of us know they pi**ed off alot of there casual user base and forced em out until they change that they will continue to lose subs.Rift put a small dent in em if SWKOTOR is even 75% of the game its hoped to be it will tear a huge chunk into those numbers along with GW2 and even Terra.

 

-----signature-----
(none)
Link to this post
-Mythril- 
Title: International Man of Mythery
Posts: 12,141
Registered: Jan 6, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 11,989
User ID: 61,530
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Burned the F out.

 

-----signature-----
Tongue-tied and twisted. Just an earthbound misfit; I.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mythphisto- Hunter;
Too many alts to list.
Link to this post
Conceited 
Posts: 3,245
Registered: Jan 29, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 3,130
User ID: 636,933
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Well, such drastic changes like the ones that Cataclysm made are rarely good things for games.

They revamped every class, changed their talent trees, therefore unbalancing previous balancing done.

Late BC/Wrath started to dumb this game down to a point that the old and new players got used to it. Then they decided to ramp up the difficulty of the game again, or at least try to. I personally liked Blizzard trying to add some difficulty back into the game. But I'm sure a large chunk of the players that joined late BC/Wrath found it "too hard" or don't like their games to be a challenge at all.

I loved this game in Vanilla and eary/mid BC, was great. I still play, but it's not what it used to be. They've dumbed it down too much. It seems like they concentrate too much on trying to add the next big thing, rather than fix a lot of the problems the game already has as well.

That's the gaming industry I suppose. Your game can't last forever. Not that WoW's anywhere near death, but they need to stop with the sh!tty decisions.

 

-----signature-----
Conceited
Link to this post
Long_Ranger 
Posts: 11,282
Registered: Oct 5, '00
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 10,429
User ID: 47,820
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Interesting. My six-month sub hasn't expired yet, as have some of my long-term guildmates who were on 3-month subs when we all decided to get out.

I think there's still some ways to go. But the good news - this is a message that Blizz'll hear loud and clear.

 

-----signature-----
Long Ranger: back in Dereth again, after a seven-year sleep!
Link to this post
Alpha_Swift 
Posts: 5,821
Registered: Jul 16, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 5,744
User ID: 697,744
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
600K subs works out to about $9M a month or more than $100M per year. In other words, all the big money made on the Cat expac purchases have been pissed away in less than 6 months.

The sin? They forgot the fun. At the end of the day, it's just a damn game. If a player can't progress, they get frustrated. It's not a bad idea to make it harder, but it's all about the balance.

 

-----signature-----
-
-
-
Can someone please answer Fermi's Paradox?
Link to this post
GrimTempest 
Title: Board Manager
Anime Aikousha

Posts: 37,523
Registered: Dec 21, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 36,478
User ID: 567,005
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
i think they need to pay more attention to character progression and depth. right now all that happens is everything gets recycled each expansion...all they essentially do is drop everyone 5-10 levels under cap again.

i'm really not sure how to explain what i mean i suppose. but simply bumping the level cap and item levels each expansion doesn't seem like it can keep things interesting over the long term. plus the way they like to redesign everything constantly is a frustration to the playerbase. people don't like to work hard at something only to have it changed with a patch or expansion and take what they enjoyed and worked for out of the equation.

this expansion needs to be a wake up call for them to better plan out where they want to take this game and how they're going to do it. if they just keep blindly stumbling ahead without a concrete plan and goal the decline is just going to continue. i think the success of the game has led them to be careless and its starting to show. the real question now is can they recognize that for what it is and take the right steps to turn things around.

 

-----signature-----
MyAnimeList - http://myanimelist.net/profile/Grimtempest
- Chaotic Neutral -
El Psy Congroo
Link to this post
GutterSludge 
Posts: 4,620
Registered: Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
If 6 million subs are in China, and they are still on Lich King, (and presumably not "burning through 'expansion' content at a rapid rate"...)

Then the loss is in Europe, The Americas, Australia, and Southeast Asia.

600,000 of those 6 million is 10% of Cataclysm players.

And that is from December to the end of March, which still leaves April and 10 days in May to be accounted for.










 

-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
Link to this post
_Warlucky_ 
Posts: 1,255
Registered: Jul 20, '08
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 1,251
User ID: 1,310,012
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
When I looked at the article my first impression of the picture is that is a major Rift going on.

Besides that though the idea of content consumption is not new it is like eating a steak in that you eat until it is done but leave the grizzle behind. Cat end game is nothing but grizzle.

 

-----signature-----
(none)
Link to this post
Kriegprojekt 
Posts: 2,653
Registered: Apr 12, '10
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 2,591
User ID: 1,390,814
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
GutterSludge posted:
If 6 million subs are in China, and they are still on Lich King, (and presumably not "burning through 'expansion' content at a rapid rate"...)

Then the loss is in Europe, The Americas, Australia, and Southeast Asia.

600,000 of those 6 million is 10% of Cataclysm players.

And that is from December to the end of March, which still leaves April and 10 days in May to be accounted for.
















Wow. Really good point.

 

-----signature-----
http://www.immortal-guild.com/
Deepstrike Server
Milkman - Guardian Bard
Link to this post
Ashmaele 
Title: Pastor of Muppets
Posts: 19,662
Registered: Jan 15, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 15,903
User ID: 612,352
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Not enough new content in Cataclysm to justify the price of the expansion IMO. The game is still fun and I'm enjoying leveling up alts and experiencing content that I never did before. That said, Cataclysm was a huge disappointment, especially considering the massive amounts of additional content added with the BC and Wrath expansions.

 

-----signature-----
I had a dream. It was an incredible dream. When I awoke, I had a huge mess to clean up.
hugs
Link to this post
siujoey 
Posts: 4,944
Registered: Dec 26, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,893
User ID: 575,651
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
I am guessing there will not be an appearance by certain people on this thread now that the subscription decline has been acknowledged by none other than the CEO.

Can't really deny the obvious any more, eh?

 

-----signature-----
I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
Link to this post
Arcilite_I 
Title: VN's Most Wanted
Posts: 34,414
Registered: Jan 27, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 33,674
User ID: 633,598
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Heh

 

-----signature-----


PvPing since 1977
Link to this post
Boone-Eldar 
Title: Infallible
Posts: 16,589
Registered: Dec 28, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 16,173
User ID: 580,486
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Rift got up to a million subs did it not? Not unreasonable to think a good chunk of the 600k came from competition being released.

 

-----signature-----
Seriously?
raised_brow
Link to this post
-Peo- 
Title: Caveat Lector
Posts: 3,208
Registered: Feb 2, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 3,155
User ID: 1,024,262
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Denial is unreasonable.

 

-----signature-----
SWTOR, Maybe in a year.
Back to WoW for now.
With a lil f2p CoH.
Link to this post
Boone-Eldar 
Title: Infallible
Posts: 16,589
Registered: Dec 28, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 16,173
User ID: 580,486
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
I have no doubt that subscriptions have dropped. They always do a few months after a expansion releases after people go through the content. It does mean that it is likely under 12 million though now, which up until this announcement was no certainty. Whether that is because a new MMO released or that Cataclysm failed who knows. I do know certain people here will spin as Blizzard failure, but that should not surprise.

 

-----signature-----
Seriously?
raised_brow
Link to this post
Mando_the_Warrior_II 
Posts: 9,039
Registered: Jun 14, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 8,898
User ID: 153,563
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
You know... I just have to wonder with all the trauma of natural and man made disasters going on, that those would be a result of some loss of players as well..

 

-----signature-----
(none)
Link to this post
Spookysheep 
Title: Lieker of Cheese
Posts: 21,595
Registered: Jan 9, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 21,166
User ID: 601,475
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
I'm curious to see if the moron fanbois will come here and admit their own stupidity now, or will they still try to spin it.


 

-----signature-----
I liek cheese
Pirates > Ninjas
.....................................
Link to this post
Boone-Eldar 
Title: Infallible
Posts: 16,589
Registered: Dec 28, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 16,173
User ID: 580,486
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Spookysheep posted:
I'm curious to see if the moron fanbois will come here and admit their own stupidity now, or will they still try to spin it.





Flaming, Harassment, Bashing, Baiting, Threats and Trolling (back)
Calling people names, swearing at people, following people around on various threads to purposefully bother or harass them, sending them Private Messages when they tell you not to, threatening people or just directly provoking or baiting people just for the purpose of getting a negative reaction is not allowed on our forums. Any word used in a derogatory fashion against somebody constitutes a personal attack and will be treated that way. This applies to all posters and all areas of our forums. We expect posters here to respect each other, even if they disagree and dislike each other, so please keep personal disputes off our forums.

 

-----signature-----
Seriously?
raised_brow
Link to this post
HunterTalon 
Posts: 3,960
Registered: Jun 12, '00
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 3,597
User ID: 28,960
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Spookysheep posted:
I'm curious to see if the moron fanbois will come here and admit their own stupidity now, or will they still try to spin it.


The bitterness is strong in this one. Of course that was the case even when he still played WoW, but the stubborn refusal to just go away is a little laughable at this point...

 

-----signature-----
"You may have graduated from Cambridge
but I am an honorary graduate from Starfleet Academy!"
~ Sheldon
Link to this post
Spookysheep 
Title: Lieker of Cheese
Posts: 21,595
Registered: Jan 9, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 21,166
User ID: 601,475
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
And no surprises.

 

-----signature-----
I liek cheese
Pirates > Ninjas
.....................................
Link to this post
Voqar 
Posts: 8,454
Registered: Mar 12, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 8,255
User ID: 73,152
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
IMO Bliz needs to wake up and diablo-fy WoW. The genre needs something slightly different and there isn't that much room for serious variation on the MMORPG formula. By diablo-fy I mean add some element of randomness. When your pace of new content production is snail-like at best, your content needs an element of randomness. Completely static instances with bosses so static their abilities can be tracked with timer addons has no spice at all. The new MMORPGs are copying this exactly. Give us randomized dungeons with randomized content and unpredictable bosses that make you pay attention to the bosses instead of an addon and wake up the player base.

Bliz shot everyone in the foot with cata which was plain dumb. Lots of people said it was gonna happen before cata was close to hitting. Bliz upper management allowed whatever idiots were making all the design changes continue. They deserve to lose subs. They stripped down and redesigned core systems for a game that was perfectly fine. They made some aspects of the game so stupidly easy (leveling) that even with revamped leveling content it's insanely boring and generic. They shifted raiding from being open to tons of people to being limited to the elite, which was their dumbest move of all after opening it up to more people than ever during WOTLK.

-Mythril- posted:
Burned the F out.


That's kind of a genre thing though. Other games aren't going to help much other than give you some new content to digest the same gameplay slightly differently. You could blame WoW for being so amazing for 5+ years that it causes people to play so much that burnout is a high possibility.

IMO, Rift is no real substitute - it's WoW 1.5 or 2.0 - different graphics, different content, almost the exact same gameplay and endgame, without the polish or sophistication in content. It's a nice diversion but unless you are burned out on the genre and done entirely for now you'd probably stick with WoW where endgame is done better.

I'm also doubting SW will do much for most WoW type players. All you have to do is watch some gameplay footage where there's 10 minutes of dialog before you start an instance. The instant gratification ADD types that dominate WoW will never be able to sit still thru that stuff without breaking their ESC key. And again, it's going to be more of the same except with screwball classes doing the same roles, and IMO, historically, sci-fi never feels as good as fantasy for the holy trinity, SW or not.

 

-----signature-----
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that
- George Carlin
Link to this post
vn_cuch 
Posts: ????
Registered: ????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Reasons For Reduction?

5 f***ing additional levels (should have been 10 at least)
Insufficient content (redoing all old world is good and fine...but we need new content in buckets and spades)
Classes/abilities nerfing/buffing/nerfing....ad infinitum
overuse of horrible annoying "phasing" technology...(you will do our content when we say and how we say)
Not addressing casual content/needs
Less than engaging primary and secondary professions
Archaeology - the pain....it still burns.....
Instances and gaming the ilevel requirement
Pvp screwed up - melee Vs caster pendulum


Overall - disappointing as an expansion. Feels like a "get it done quick for the financial reports...We can fix it later in patches"

I do love the game, but lost my will to play.

 

-----signature-----
Link to this post
GutterSludge 
Posts: 4,620
Registered: Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Boone,

Spook did not name a single soul.

You can't run and jump under the bus and call foul play, and expect action against the bus driver.



If you are going to place yourself in the category he mentioned, then it's all on you.


 

-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
Link to this post
Fedup23 
Posts: 2,271
Registered: Jul 14, '06
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 2,265
User ID: 1,155,204
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
EXTRA EXTRA!!! Read all about it!!! Game losing subscribers after 6 years!!!! EXTRA!!!!

 

-----signature-----
(none)
Link to this post
siujoey 
Posts: 4,944
Registered: Dec 26, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,893
User ID: 575,651
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Boone-Eldar posted:
I have no doubt that subscriptions have dropped. They always do a few months after a expansion releases after people go through the content. It does mean that it is likely under 12 million though now, which up until this announcement was no certainty. Whether that is because a new MMO released or that Cataclysm failed who knows. I do know certain people here will spin as Blizzard failure, but that should not surprise.


"In fact, it's actually lower than the milestone reached in 2008 with the release of Wrath of the Lich King."

That is another quote from the article. Sub numbers have reached pre-2008 levels. Spin it however you want, it is declining. And if they don't start fixing the underlying problems- this 5% reduction in subs is just the beginning....

 

-----signature-----
I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
Link to this post
Boone-Eldar 
Title: Infallible
Posts: 16,589
Registered: Dec 28, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 16,173
User ID: 580,486
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
siujoey posted:
Boone-Eldar posted:
I have no doubt that subscriptions have dropped. They always do a few months after a expansion releases after people go through the content. It does mean that it is likely under 12 million though now, which up until this announcement was no certainty. Whether that is because a new MMO released or that Cataclysm failed who knows. I do know certain people here will spin as Blizzard failure, but that should not surprise.


"In fact, it's actually lower than the milestone reached in 2008 with the release of Wrath of the Lich King."

That is another quote from the article. Sub numbers have reached pre-2008 levels. Spin it however you want, it is declining. And if they don't start fixing the underlying problems- this 5% reduction in subs is just the beginning....


And having a direct competitor, described as WoW 1.5 or 2.0, that was released this spring and that has gained from what I understand to be 1 million subs has no impact on that?

Look I get that a few here really are not happy with WoW for a number of different reasons, but to totally discount Rift as the probable reason for the dip in subscriptions? As Monday Night Countdown would say....Come on man.

 

-----signature-----
Seriously?
raised_brow
Link to this post
GutterSludge 
Posts: 4,620
Registered: Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
The question is:

How many would have "left for Rift" had it launched during Wrath of the Lich King?

 

-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
Link to this post
Boone-Eldar 
Title: Infallible
Posts: 16,589
Registered: Dec 28, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 16,173
User ID: 580,486
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
GutterSludge posted:
The question is:

How many would have "left for Rift" had it launched during Wrath of the Lich King?



Who can really say? I imagine probably about the same, but that would just be an educated guess based on that there has always been a good chunk of people who flock to any new MMO that releases for a number of different reasons, but usually boredom with their current MMO of choice. In the past they usually return within 30 days due the new MMOs pretty much sucking, but Rift may be different. I have not tried Rift so I can't talk about it's quality or lack of it.

Edit: I hope that Rift does push Blizzard. I won't complain one bit if another MMO pushes Blizzard to release content faster and improve the quality of that content due to competition.

 

-----signature-----
Seriously?
raised_brow
Link to this post
GutterSludge 
Posts: 4,620
Registered: Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Many people that post here originally "tried" rift because of their outright disgust with Cata, the attitude of the Blizzard Devs, or both.

Those would not have happened during Wrath..just saying.





 

-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
Link to this post
Boone-Eldar 
Title: Infallible
Posts: 16,589
Registered: Dec 28, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 16,173
User ID: 580,486
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
GutterSludge posted:
Many people that post here originally "tried" rift because of their outright disgust with Cata, the attitude of the Blizzard Devs, or both.

Those would not have happened during Wrath..just saying.




You act like I haven't been posting or reading these boards over the past 10 years. Your statement is not true.

Edit: The part of not trying Rift is not true.

 

-----signature-----
Seriously?
raised_brow
Link to this post
Fedup23 
Posts: 2,271
Registered: Jul 14, '06
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 2,265
User ID: 1,155,204
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
GutterSludge posted:
Many people that post here originally "tried" rift because of their outright disgust with Cata, the attitude of the Blizzard Devs, or both.

Those would not have happened during Wrath..just saying.







I think im pretty typical (judging by my guilds activities) in that I try out most new MMOs that come out..regardless of my current satisfaction.

 

-----signature-----
(none)
Link to this post
GutterSludge 
Posts: 4,620
Registered: Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
I disagree.

 

-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
Link to this post
Fedup23 
Posts: 2,271
Registered: Jul 14, '06
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 2,265
User ID: 1,155,204
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
GutterSludge posted:
I disagree.


I accept your disagreement with no ill will.

 

-----signature-----
(none)
Link to this post
Bremen_Gaheris 
Posts: 1,567
Registered: Jan 29, '03
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 1,529
User ID: 764,499
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Voqar posted:
IMO Bliz needs to wake up and diablo-fy WoW. The genre needs something slightly different and there isn't that much room for serious variation on the MMORPG formula. By diablo-fy I mean add some element of randomness. When your pace of new content production is snail-like at best, your content needs an element of randomness. Completely static instances with bosses so static their abilities can be tracked with timer addons has no spice at all. The new MMORPGs are copying this exactly. Give us randomized dungeons with randomized content and unpredictable bosses that make you pay attention to the bosses instead of an addon and wake up the player base.

Bliz shot everyone in the foot with cata which was plain dumb. Lots of people said it was gonna happen before cata was close to hitting. Bliz upper management allowed whatever idiots were making all the design changes continue. They deserve to lose subs. They stripped down and redesigned core systems for a game that was perfectly fine. They made some aspects of the game so stupidly easy (leveling) that even with revamped leveling content it's insanely boring and generic. They shifted raiding from being open to tons of people to being limited to the elite, which was their dumbest move of all after opening it up to more people than ever during WOTLK.



Beautiful and masterful summary of WoW's current issues. Well done.

I can only imagine a game with WoW's engine, Diablo's hack-n-slash gameplay and randomness, and with MMO elements so there are others to play around and with. That would be a kickass game.

 

-----signature-----
The VNboards are so much fun! Its like my own personal train wreck going 24/7
and noone is actually getting hurt which takes away the guilt of watching.
Link to this post
Boone-Eldar 
Title: Infallible
Posts: 16,589
Registered: Dec 28, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 16,173
User ID: 580,486
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Bremen_Gaheris posted:

I can only imagine a game with WoW's engine, Diablo's hack-n-slash gameplay and randomness, and with MMO elements so there are others to play around and with. That would be a kickass game.


Indeed.

 

-----signature-----
Seriously?
raised_brow
Link to this post
-Peo- 
Title: Caveat Lector
Posts: 3,208
Registered: Feb 2, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 3,155
User ID: 1,024,262
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
-Peo- posted:
Denial is unreasonable.


I'm gonna go ahead and quote myself, because it is still holding up. Any reason but the real reason is denial.

 

-----signature-----
SWTOR, Maybe in a year.
Back to WoW for now.
With a lil f2p CoH.
Link to this post
siujoey 
Posts: 4,944
Registered: Dec 26, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,893
User ID: 575,651
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Boone-Eldar posted:
siujoey posted:
Boone-Eldar posted:
I have no doubt that subscriptions have dropped. They always do a few months after a expansion releases after people go through the content. It does mean that it is likely under 12 million though now, which up until this announcement was no certainty. Whether that is because a new MMO released or that Cataclysm failed who knows. I do know certain people here will spin as Blizzard failure, but that should not surprise.


"In fact, it's actually lower than the milestone reached in 2008 with the release of Wrath of the Lich King."

That is another quote from the article. Sub numbers have reached pre-2008 levels. Spin it however you want, it is declining. And if they don't start fixing the underlying problems- this 5% reduction in subs is just the beginning....


And having a direct competitor, described as WoW 1.5 or 2.0, that was released this spring and that has gained from what I understand to be 1 million subs has no impact on that?

Look I get that a few here really are not happy with WoW for a number of different reasons, but to totally discount Rift as the probable reason for the dip in subscriptions? As Monday Night Countdown would say....Come on man.


You have been posting here 10 years so you should know there have been LOTS of games described as WoW 1.5/2.0 over the years.... Come on man.

Edit: What / Who is Monday Night Countdown? I was thinking it is a reference I would get if I didn't unsub a few months back, but it doesn't sound very "WoWish."

 

-----signature-----
I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
Link to this post
Boone-Eldar 
Title: Infallible
Posts: 16,589
Registered: Dec 28, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 16,173
User ID: 580,486
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
siujoey posted:

You have been posting here 10 years so you should know there have been LOTS of games described as WoW 1.5/2.0 over the years.... Come on man.

Edit: What / Who is Monday Night Countdown? I was thinking it is a reference I would get if I didn't unsub a few months back, but it doesn't sound very "WoWish."


Yep and none of them ended up being any good. Rift appears to be different, judging by player reactions.

Monday Night Countdown is a Monday Night football segment. You are a Bears fan so I understand why you would not have the opportunity to watch many MNF games to know that. wink

 

-----signature-----
Seriously?
raised_brow
Link to this post
kyrv 
Title: Lord Logicus
Posts: 14,420
Registered: Jan 31, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 14,357
User ID: 639,081
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Boone-Eldar posted:
siujoey posted:

You have been posting here 10 years so you should know there have been LOTS of games described as WoW 1.5/2.0 over the years.... Come on man.

Edit: What / Who is Monday Night Countdown? I was thinking it is a reference I would get if I didn't unsub a few months back, but it doesn't sound very "WoWish."


Yep and none of them ended up being any good. Rift appears to be different, judging by player reactions.

Monday Night Countdown is a Monday Night football segment. You are a Bears fan so I understand why you would not have the opportunity to watch many MNF games to know that. wink


1) Football fans watch monday night football, regardless of team affiliation. Even in cities with no teams.

2) The Bears are in fact are on MNF, one could well argue, much more than they should be.

Boone - not your best work.

 

-----signature-----
CO, LOTRO, RoM, PWI, CoH
Dragon Age
Link to this post
Boone-Eldar 
Title: Infallible
Posts: 16,589
Registered: Dec 28, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 16,173
User ID: 580,486
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
kyrv posted:


1) Football fans watch monday night football, regardless of team affiliation. Even in cities with no teams.

2) The Bears are in fact are on MNF, one could well argue, much more than they should be.

Boone - not your best work.


Lighten up Francis, it was a joke. I am a Vikings fan.

 

-----signature-----
Seriously?
raised_brow
Link to this post
kyrv 
Title: Lord Logicus
Posts: 14,420
Registered: Jan 31, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 14,357
User ID: 639,081
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Boone-Eldar posted:
kyrv posted:


1) Football fans watch monday night football, regardless of team affiliation. Even in cities with no teams.

2) The Bears are in fact are on MNF, one could well argue, much more than they should be.

Boone - not your best work.


Lighten up Francis, it was a joke. I am a Vikings fan.


No need to apologize.

Or post pics of your QB's junk. beatup

 

-----signature-----
CO, LOTRO, RoM, PWI, CoH
Dragon Age
Link to this post
Boone-Eldar 
Title: Infallible
Posts: 16,589
Registered: Dec 28, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 16,173
User ID: 580,486
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
kyrv posted:
Boone-Eldar posted:
kyrv posted:


1) Football fans watch monday night football, regardless of team affiliation. Even in cities with no teams.

2) The Bears are in fact are on MNF, one could well argue, much more than they should be.

Boone - not your best work.


Lighten up Francis, it was a joke. I am a Vikings fan.


No need to apologize.

Or post pics of your QB's junk. beatup


He does quite well at that all on his own. laugh And technically he isn't our QB anymore, so GB can have him back now if they like. We just borrowed him for a couple years.

 

-----signature-----
Seriously?
raised_brow
Link to this post
Turumbar-HG 
Posts: 15,483
Registered: Dec 10, '00
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 15,010
User ID: 58,337
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Do you really expect Blizzard to make sweeping changes based on the loss of %5 of their subscriber numbers?

I'm actually a bit suprised that the number is this low, I would have expected more to have quit based on the opinions around these parts.

 

-----signature-----
Turumbar and his merry band of Alts
Link to this post
Barking_Spider 
Posts: ????
Registered: ????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
HunterTalon posted:
Spookysheep posted:
I'm curious to see if the moron fanbois will come here and admit their own stupidity now, or will they still try to spin it.


The bitterness is strong in this one. Of course that was the case even when he still played WoW, but the stubborn refusal to just go away is a little laughable at this point...





applause

 

-----signature-----
Link to this post
TruthyID 
Posts: 365
Registered: Jul 7, '10
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 365
User ID: 1,397,686
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Boone-Eldar posted:
Look I get that a few here really are not happy with WoW for a number of different reasons, but to totally discount Rift as the probable reason for the dip in subscriptions? As Monday Night Countdown would say....Come on man.


Having a viable alternative to WoW, in the form of Rift, is certainly a contributing factor to the decline, but to say that it is the only reason for the decline is absolutely ridiculous. People are leaving WoW because they're unhappy with WoW. Rift just happens to have been released at a really opportune moment.

 

-----signature-----
(none)
Link to this post
siujoey 
Posts: 4,944
Registered: Dec 26, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,893
User ID: 575,651
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Ah yeah, THAT Monday Night Countdown. You know I watch that- Mike Ditka is on there. (Ditka vs. a hurricane, who would win?)

On a side note, I harbor no grudges after being heckled by a Vikings fan. It's sort of like being threatened by a pudgy little 5th grader. It's adorable. :-)


 

-----signature-----
I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
Link to this post
Blisteringballs 
Posts: 2,247
Registered: Aug 12, '09
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 2,247
User ID: 1,366,612
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Reading the article, it appears that Morheime (sp?) is suggesting that much of the loss is due to rapid progression through the end game content. If he truly feels that way, then it shows how the upper echelon of Blizzard management has lost their way and:

A. Do not understand the feedback their customers have been giving them for months, or are just outright ignoring it in favor of their vision
B. Are disconnected from the developers in charge of system, progression, and encounter design
C. Are choosing to focus on certain data that is confirming to their vision, and rejecting or ignoring any raw data that is disconfirming
D. All of the above

The vast majority of feedback is directly related to heroics being too difficult, and progression being too grindy, stunted, and gated. These two root causes fester into the other issues you see people complaining so much about. Not having much actual new end game content doesn't help things, either, and makes it that much easier for the previous two problems to just lead to people quitting.

The only thing they've done to address the problem is make a few content nerfs, made justice and honor gear easier to obtain (slightly, it's still very grindy), and incentivized tanking - which doesn't appear to have worked according to the legion of anecdotes I've read and heard. If they nerf the content more and the dynamic questing content in 4.2 is good, then they will see a turn around.

Everyone that has played MMOs knows that if a downward trend isn't reversed relatively quickly, it spreads exponentially due to the nature of the genre. I actually hope Blizzard keeps doing the wrong thing for another quarter so that their numbers keep declining and Activision has to step in. Because I'm cruel and would love to see Ghost Crawler lose his job and have to take his fat ass to Trion or something.

 

-----signature-----
Link to this post
Ugh_Lancelot 
Title: Ooo...bouncy!
Posts: 5,492
Registered: Jun 17, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 5,446
User ID: 689,383
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Interesting. 1st quarter results (assuming they post them soon) should corroborate this to some extent.

 

-----signature-----
WoW and DAoC - Too many alts to count
Charter Member - Altaholics Anonymous
Link to this post
Broken_Kayfabe 
Posts: 9,125
Registered: Feb 16, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 9,010
User ID: 646,295
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
As I predicted. No surprise. Wonder how long until Ghostcrawler is "promoted".


Long_Ranger posted:
Interesting. My six-month sub hasn't expired yet, as have some of my long-term guildmates who were on 3-month subs when we all decided to get out.


Also an important point. This decline is just the month by monthers. Once the three monthers, and then the six monthers, all run their time out, the numbers will drop down even more.

Rift as the cause? Probably to some extent. But it's also true that WoW has become vulnerable to a Rift, when two years ago, or even a year ago, it was unthinkable. It all comes down to the same thing. Blizzard just isn't the company it used to be, they better hope Diablo 3 brings back some of the shine.

shock

 

-----signature-----
Thanks, but it's been fun
Five more minutes then I'm done!
I've been saying that to myself since
...yesterday.
- from "Has anybody seen my corpse". Man Everquest rocked back in the day...
Link to this post
Quazimortal 
Title: The One and Only
Posts: 17,806
Registered: Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Broken_Kayfabe posted:
Also an important point. This decline is just the month by monthers. Once the three monthers, and then the six monthers, all run their time out, the numbers will drop down even more.


I don't think canceled accounts are included so those people wouldn't be counted.

 

-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.” ~Leopold Stokowski
Link to this post
Blisteringballs 
Posts: 2,247
Registered: Aug 12, '09
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 2,247
User ID: 1,366,612
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Quazimortal posted:
Broken_Kayfabe posted:
Also an important point. This decline is just the month by monthers. Once the three monthers, and then the six monthers, all run their time out, the numbers will drop down even more.


I don't think canceled accounts are included so those people wouldn't be counted.


The accounts with active multi-months subs are counted, regardless of whether or not they're active, which is what Kayfabe was referencing. Blizzard stated in their last report that they count anything active as a sub. If the pulse of the vocal community is any kind of gauge, considering statistical inference and all, then there are many players that fall into the "well I quit a while back but I have a few months left from my prepaid card" camp.

 

-----signature-----
Link to this post
Quazimortal 
Title: The One and Only
Posts: 17,806
Registered: Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Blisteringballs posted:
Quazimortal posted:
Broken_Kayfabe posted:
Also an important point. This decline is just the month by monthers. Once the three monthers, and then the six monthers, all run their time out, the numbers will drop down even more.


I don't think canceled accounts are included so those people wouldn't be counted.


The accounts with active multi-months subs are counted, regardless of whether or not they're active, which is what Kayfabe was referencing. Blizzard stated in their last report that they count anything active as a sub. If the pulse of the vocal community is any kind of gauge, considering statistical inference and all, then there are many players that fall into the "well I quit a while back but I have a few months left from my prepaid card" camp.


Source proving they count canceled multi-month accounts? I'm not saying I don't believe you but I just want to see it for myself.

 

-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.” ~Leopold Stokowski
Link to this post
Blisteringballs 
Posts: 2,247
Registered: Aug 12, '09
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 2,247
User ID: 1,366,612
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Quazimortal posted:
Blisteringballs posted:
Quazimortal posted:
[quote=Broken_Kayfabe]Also an important point. This decline is just the month by monthers. Once the three monthers, and then the six monthers, all run their time out, the numbers will drop down even more.


I don't think canceled accounts are included so those people wouldn't be counted.


The accounts with active multi-months subs are counted, regardless of whether or not they're active, which is what Kayfabe was referencing. Blizzard stated in their last report that they count anything active as a sub. If the pulse of the vocal community is any kind of gauge, considering statistical inference and all, then there are many players that fall into the "well I quit a while back but I have a few months left from my prepaid card" camp.


Source proving they count canceled multi-month accounts? I'm not saying I don't believe you but I just want to see it for myself.[/quote]

They count active accounts. That's all. If a person purchased three months of game time but never uses it, their account is active. No source needed just basic reasoning.

 

-----signature-----
Link to this post
GutterSludge 
Posts: 4,620
Registered: Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
You account is active if it is active.

You buy 6 months, and unsub the next day, you still have an active subscription for 6 months.



 

-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
Link to this post
Boone-Eldar 
Title: Infallible
Posts: 16,589
Registered: Dec 28, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 16,173
User ID: 580,486
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
siujoey posted:
Ah yeah, THAT Monday Night Countdown. You know I watch that- Mike Ditka is on there. (Ditka vs. a hurricane, who would win?)

On a side note, I harbor no grudges after being heckled by a Vikings fan. It's sort of like being threatened by a pudgy little 5th grader. It's adorable. :-)





lol.

 

-----signature-----
Seriously?
raised_brow
Link to this post
Boone-Eldar 
Title: Infallible
Posts: 16,589
Registered: Dec 28, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 16,173
User ID: 580,486
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
GutterSludge posted:
You account is active if it is active.

You buy 6 months, and unsub the next day, you still have an active subscription for 6 months.






Pretty sure that is the way it works yeah.

 

-----signature-----
Seriously?
raised_brow
Link to this post
Boone-Eldar 
Title: Infallible
Posts: 16,589
Registered: Dec 28, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 16,173
User ID: 580,486
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Blisteringballs posted:

The vast majority of feedback is directly related to heroics being too difficult



I felt the same way, but after I returned a few weeks back they are kind of faceroll now that people have 359ish gear.

Frankly I think Blizzard is not far off the mark on the reasons for the decrease in subs (aside from Rift). At this point after WotLK release a major content patch in 3.1 (Ulduar) was already out for close to a month and another in 3.2 (Crusade) only a couple months away with the biggest yet 3.3 (Icecrown) to come 4 months after that.

So far we have 2 recycled 5 mans and the first new major content patch still 2 or 3 months out? Blizzard needs to pick it up a notch on the content releases if they want to keep people engaged.

 

-----signature-----
Seriously?
raised_brow
Link to this post
GutterSludge 
Posts: 4,620
Registered: Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Yah, here yah go Quasi...


"World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules."


from

http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/press/pressreleases.html?081121

 

-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
Link to this post
Quazimortal 
Title: The One and Only
Posts: 17,806
Registered: Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
GutterSludge posted:
The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards.


So I was right? Thought so.

 

-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.” ~Leopold Stokowski
Link to this post
Boone-Eldar 
Title: Infallible
Posts: 16,589
Registered: Dec 28, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 16,173
User ID: 580,486
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Quazimortal posted:
GutterSludge posted:
The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards.


So I was right? Thought so.


Guess you are. It says both expired and canceled. Expired would indicate someone subbed for 6 months and their time has run out.

 

-----signature-----
Seriously?
raised_brow
Link to this post
GutterSludge 
Posts: 4,620
Registered: Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
"World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access." Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers.

If you paid for 6 months, they count it for 6 months, even if you "cancel" after 1 day. You can still login for those 6 months, and it is still an "active account", as you have paid a subscription fee.




The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules."


This is their way of saying "frozen" accounts. (especially since it makes no mention directly of "frozen" accounts.)

These are all accounts that cannot be logged in to without first paying the sub fee again. This entire statement is to let you know that they aren't counting "total accounts ever to have subscribed".


Active means active.

 

-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
Link to this post
Boone-Eldar 
Title: Infallible
Posts: 16,589
Registered: Dec 28, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 16,173
User ID: 580,486
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
GutterSludge posted:
"World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access." Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers.

If you paid for 6 months, they count it for 6 months, even if you "cancel" after 1 day. You can still login for those 6 months, and it is still an "active account", as you have paid a subscription fee.




The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules."


This is their way of saying "frozen" accounts. (especially since it makes no mention directly of "frozen" accounts.)

These are all accounts that cannot be logged in to without first paying the sub fee again. This entire statement is to let you know that they aren't counting "total accounts ever to have subscribed".


Active means active.


I can see how that be read both ways. *shrug* Either way I don't really think it matters that much in the overall subscription picture.

 

-----signature-----
Seriously?
raised_brow
Link to this post
Quazimortal 
Title: The One and Only
Posts: 17,806
Registered: Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Gutter you are having some major reading issues here. The fact that canceled accounts are excluded means it doesn't matter if you can still log into the game.

 

-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.” ~Leopold Stokowski
Link to this post
The_Korrigan 
Title: Scrub Buster
Posts: 21,660
Registered: Jul 17, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 21,292
User ID: 255,861
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
GrimTempest posted:
i think they need to pay more attention to character progression and depth. right now all that happens is everything gets recycled each expansion...all they essentially do is drop everyone 5-10 levels under cap again.
I have to agree on this. They should NEVER have dropped "Path of the Titans". The problem is that "just 5 levels" wasn't enough without the "Path of Titans".

Sad thing is that there is still no other MMORPG that comes close to WoW...

This said, Rift is bleeding players like no tomorrow. No doubt part of those will be back to WoW soon if not already. Rift is definitely not the foreseen "WoW killer", it's just a sub par clone wannabe like so many before.

There are many "if" about the upcoming titles, SW:TOR and GW2. SW:TOR looks pretty much like "WoW in space", but will definitely still be interesting to play at least once because of Bioware's story telling skills. GW2 "looks" promising because for the first time in ages, a quality MMORPG (aka made by a known company with money, and not some losers in a basement with zero artistic skills) will try to really propose something totally NEW. And by NEW, I not only mean "not a WoW clone". But of course, any veteran MMO player will take all this with a huge grain of salt, as we know what promises are worth in this industry.

Fedup23 posted:
I think im pretty typical (judging by my guilds activities) in that I try out most new MMOs that come out..regardless of my current satisfaction.
Same here. I've basically tried every single mainstream MMORPG released since UO beta, and many of the smaller ones too, even though I was very happy with my "main" game, and will keep on doing so. Hopefully something good is gonna challenge WoW soon, and not only a piss poor clone like Rift, for the greater good of the stagnating industry and of course for the good of WoW players too, Blizzard getting a kick in the nuts can only be a positive thing for the customers.

Boone-Eldar posted:
I felt the same way, but after I returned a few weeks back they are kind of faceroll now that people have 359ish gear.
As I had predicted. People were used to faceroll the WotLK heroics with overgeared characters, not remembering how they were wiping in Halls of Lightning or Utgarde Pinacle with their fresh level 80 characters in quest gear. Now we are back to easy mode, and the two new instances, ZG and ZA, are kinda equivalent to the ICC ones in WotLK since they are harder than the older ones.

Boone-Eldar posted:
Frankly I think Blizzard is not far off the mark on the reasons for the decrease in subs (aside from Rift). At this point after WotLK release a major content patch in 3.1 (Ulduar) was already out for close to a month and another in 3.2 (Crusade) only a couple months away with the biggest yet 3.3 (Icecrown) to come 4 months after that.

So far we have 2 recycled 5 mans and the first new major content patch still 2 or 3 months out? Blizzard needs to pick it up a notch on the content releases if they want to keep people engaged.
Exactly. The wait between the release of ICC and the expansion was already WAY too long, and now, they postpone the new major content patch even more. I personally slowed down the raiding with the nice weather coming back, and to be honest, we have cleared all the content with my guild and I was getting bored. The content has been very good, I have nothing to say, some bosses in normal mode were definitely as hard if not harder than many ICC heroic modes, which is a good thing, which is how it should be, but they need to speed up with content releases, be it for raiders or for non-raiders.

 

-----signature-----
SWTOR: 50 Jedi Shadow (Tank), 50 Sith Marauder (Annihilation).
LOTRO: Lifetime account, playing very casually.
WoW: Both accounts canceled for now.
GW2: Future Warrior.
Link to this post
Groooovechampion 
Posts: 4,616
Registered: Jun 30, '03
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,485
User ID: 818,115
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
lol fed. xD


I agree with Voqar. Tons of unneccessary changes were. I´d even add in "continually fixing what was not broken" mentality.

My ongoing woe is not using the areas and zones thoroughly. All zones are just zoos with NPCs chilling out. There is so much potential that could be done to interact with; pvp and pve. But there we would go again with the suggestion bombing.


username posted:
Completely static instances with bosses so static their abilities can be tracked with timer addons has no spice at all. The new MMORPGs are copying this exactly. Give us randomized dungeons with randomized content and unpredictable bosses that make you pay attention to the bosses instead of an addon and wake up the player base.


Also here I must agree.
It can`t be that some instance barely comes out and the bosses are already known to the bone. Randomizing the appearances of bosses won´t change much. Indeed, bosses need to do unpredictable things. Might as well could also add active defensive Boss countermeasures to every class to ensure the survival. And it doesn´t even have to be that complicated. Mage for elemental stuff, Warlock for Demonic, stuff like that.

I can already see that some people should be applying for the creative consulting pool of blizzard (not me lol! Voqar ^^), like right now.


Lastly, I think WoW and Blizzard is worth trolling, hence the "deserves losing subs" part.
Shouting "Listen to us Blizzard" isn´t just enough; Blizzard just needs to understand that the direction they chose was craptastic. 5% is a lot of cash they could be pumping to new projects - even fund a small department to bring out Starcraft Ghost.


and ffs, I already ran out of nova material for rule 34. Shame on you ,blizz laugh whistling silly

 

-----signature-----
DaoC, WoW (retired, inactive); WAR (semi active), EVE (active)
"Ye'know, com'on! Giimmeee di Ke$$$HHHHHH!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OADJl-CVDo0
Link to this post
Spookysheep 
Title: Lieker of Cheese
Posts: 21,595
Registered: Jan 9, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 21,166
User ID: 601,475
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
And I see the answer is zero, just as predicted.



Also, I wonder if blizzard is still finding all the B-team comments "tiresome" grin

 

-----signature-----
I liek cheese
Pirates > Ninjas
.....................................
Link to this post
Arunne 
Title: The Anonymous
Posts: 2,548
Registered: Nov 3, '03
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 2,526
User ID: 852,899
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Spookysheep posted:
And I see the answer is zero, just as predicted.



Also, I wonder if blizzard is still finding all the B-team comments "tiresome" grin


No, but the C-Team who is handling all the development now is pretty pissed that the B-Team keeps getting all the credit!

 

-----signature-----
"Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be"
"I may not agree with what you say, but I respect your right to be punished for it."
Link to this post
Spookysheep 
Title: Lieker of Cheese
Posts: 21,595
Registered: Jan 9, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 21,166
User ID: 601,475
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Arunne posted:
[
No, but the C-Team who is handling all the development now is pretty pissed that the B-Team keeps getting all the credit!



laugh

 

-----signature-----
I liek cheese
Pirates > Ninjas
.....................................
Link to this post
Arcilite_I 
Title: VN's Most Wanted
Posts: 34,414
Registered: Jan 27, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 33,674
User ID: 633,598
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Arunne posted:
Spookysheep posted:
And I see the answer is zero, just as predicted.



Also, I wonder if blizzard is still finding all the B-team comments "tiresome" grin


No, but the C-Team who is handling all the development now is pretty pissed that the B-Team keeps getting all the credit!



/thread

 

-----signature-----


PvPing since 1977
Link to this post
GutterSludge 
Posts: 4,620
Registered: Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Quazimortal posted:
Gutter you are having some major reading issues here. The fact that canceled accounts are excluded means it doesn't matter if you can still log into the game.



You are having the issues, it clearly states , "subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee"...


English FTW.


 

-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
Link to this post
Zero_Washu 
Posts: 13,401
Registered: Sep 28, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 13,151
User ID: 419,410
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
GutterSludge posted:
The question is:

How many would have "left for Rift" had it launched during Wrath of the Lich King?



Wrath was a far better expansion that Cataclysm. The only thing Cata got right was making the old world look good and updating the quests to flow better

 

-----signature-----
.
.
. For everything there is a season, and a time for every purpose under heaven
. Cows go moo, Dogs go woof and MMO players go ''PVP is imbalanced''
. "I’m as horny as the hat rack at a Viking bar.", Ann Coulter
Link to this post
Quazimortal 
Title: The One and Only
Posts: 17,806
Registered: Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
GutterSludge posted:
Quazimortal posted:
Gutter you are having some major reading issues here. The fact that canceled accounts are excluded means it doesn't matter if you can still log into the game.



You are having the issues, it clearly states , "subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee"...


English FTW.





Holy crap Gutter, did you just go stupid or something? It does not matter what it states counts as a subscriber when it specifically states that canceled accounts are EXCLUDED from the definition.

I can't dumb it down for you any more than that. If you still can't figure it out then I feel sorry for you.

 

-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.” ~Leopold Stokowski
Link to this post
Ugh_Lancelot 
Title: Ooo...bouncy!
Posts: 5,492
Registered: Jun 17, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 5,446
User ID: 689,383
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Quazimortal posted:
GutterSludge posted:
Quazimortal posted:
Gutter you are having some major reading issues here. The fact that canceled accounts are excluded means it doesn't matter if you can still log into the game.



You are having the issues, it clearly states , "subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee"...


English FTW.





Holy crap Gutter, did you just go stupid or something? It does not matter what it states counts as a subscriber when it specifically states that canceled accounts are EXCLUDED from the definition.

I can't dumb it down for you any more than that. If you still can't figure it out then I feel sorry for you.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/ambiguity

The answer is, both may apply and the one that will apply when Blizzard releases numbers is the one that makes them look better on paper.

 

-----signature-----
WoW and DAoC - Too many alts to count
Charter Member - Altaholics Anonymous
Link to this post
Quazimortal 
Title: The One and Only
Posts: 17,806
Registered: Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
What ambiguity? It looks well defined to me.

 

-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.” ~Leopold Stokowski
Link to this post
GutterSludge 
Posts: 4,620
Registered: Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Say it with me quasi..


"Subscribers..

include...

individuals...

who...

have...

paid...

a...

subscription...

fee..."


 

-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
Link to this post
Quazimortal 
Title: The One and Only
Posts: 17,806
Registered: Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Say it with me Gutter...

"The

above

definition

excludes

all

players

...

cancelled

subscriptions"

 

-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.” ~Leopold Stokowski
Link to this post
JaredKorry 
Posts: ????
Registered: ????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
I would side with Gutter on this one. I can call and cancel my internet account but it would still be an active account until the time I've already paid for has run out. Same thing for WoW accounts, if you paid for a block of time, you get that whole block of time, and are counted as active for that whole block of time. Otherwise, Blizz would have to give refunds to people who paid for 3 or 6 month subscriptions and then cancelled after a month. And we all know THAT ain't gonna happen. And, besides, it's not THEIR fault you paid for a block of time and are not using it. >.>

 

-----signature-----
Link to this post
Broken_Kayfabe 
Posts: 9,125
Registered: Feb 16, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 9,010
User ID: 646,295
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Yup, Gutter is right. It's not officially canceled until the paid time ends. Canceling an account isn't the only way for time to expire, hence the dual reference of 'cancel' and 'expire'.

Blizzard counts any account that you can log into and play as an active account regardless of whether or not it has a pending cancel on it. Given the opposite means you could, in theory, have more people playing than there are actually 'active accounts' (by Quazi's definition), its really the only interpretation that makes any sense at all.

 

-----signature-----
Thanks, but it's been fun
Five more minutes then I'm done!
I've been saying that to myself since
...yesterday.
- from "Has anybody seen my corpse". Man Everquest rocked back in the day...
Link to this post
Blisteringballs 
Posts: 2,247
Registered: Aug 12, '09
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 2,247
User ID: 1,366,612
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Quasi, I'm not trying to be rude, but is English a second language for you? I'm baffled how you're not getting this.

 

-----signature-----
Link to this post
Quazimortal 
Title: The One and Only
Posts: 17,806
Registered: Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
I'm baffled how you guys aren't getting it. It says it in plain English that if your account is canceled it is excluded from being counted as a subscriber.

 

-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.” ~Leopold Stokowski
Link to this post
Trigeminal 
Title: Drill, Fill, Bill
Posts: 11,233
Registered: Mar 17, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 11,153
User ID: 658,468
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Blisteringballs posted:
Quasi, I'm not trying to be rude, but is English a second language for you? I'm baffled how you're not getting this.


^^^

 

-----signature-----
PvPing since 1975
Link to this post
Quazimortal 
Title: The One and Only
Posts: 17,806
Registered: Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
I would argue that if you can't understand that a canceled subscription is excluded from being counted as an active subscriber than English must not be your primary language. It's not even in hard to understand legalese and you guys still can't grasp the meaning of that paragraph.

 

-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.” ~Leopold Stokowski
Link to this post
GutterSludge 
Posts: 4,620
Registered: Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Quasi, by your logic, I have never been an "active subscriber", and therefore never had an active subscription.

 

-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
Link to this post
Blisteringballs 
Posts: 2,247
Registered: Aug 12, '09
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 2,247
User ID: 1,366,612
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Anyways.

The official forums have been a humorous read since that earnings call went public. It seems like the moderators are deleting any thread that even references it.

 

-----signature-----
Link to this post
GutterSludge 
Posts: 4,620
Registered: Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
No way!!

Eheee..deleting threads like that just make them look worse than if they just admitted people were pissed at them,imho.

 

-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
Link to this post
Sprawl-zero1eye- 
Title: IGN Vault Staff
Reziztance iz Futile

Posts: 53,263
Registered: Jun 28, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 52,657
User ID: 692,733
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
doh!

 

-----signature-----
Mirkwood MUD, OneEye IvoryFang, Lord of the VampireZ (Retired)
AC Frostfell, Clan Z - Lvl 239 Grief Dagger (Retired)
WoW Lightbringer Alliance, Z Guild - Lvl 85 Combat Rogue (Retired)
Making iOS Apps these days at http://zsprawl.com/iOS
Link to this post
Broken_Kayfabe 
Posts: 9,125
Registered: Feb 16, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 9,010
User ID: 646,295
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Quazi I am not going to go all troll on you and post insults or crap or anything of the sort. Your reading of it is not unreasonable. It IS wrong, though. Look at the list.

Blizzard posted:
"World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards.


Here's the potential statuses Blizzard mentions:

Subscribers:

paid their subscription fee
active prepaid card
free month newbies who purchased game
(internet game room players, not really comparable)

Not subscribed

Free promotional subscriptions
expired or canceled subscriptions
expired prepaid cards

First evidence - these categories fall into two explicit lines with no exceptions - the first group has all paid for time (Blizzard explicitly mentions buying the game as a part of it for the free monthers), the second has not. Your interpretation requires 'canceled' to be an exception.

Second evidence - 'canceled' is directly lumped in with 'expired' rather than made its own listing, which suggests they are considered similar. Expired accounts cannot log in, therefore it's reasonable to assume canceled accounts can't either. Suggests "canceled accounts" are those who have passed the end of the paid time, not before.

Third evidence - if "canceled but still playable" accounts aren't counted as active, then NO prepaid card account should be counted as active either, since they are the exact same thing. But accounts on prepaid cards are considered active.

I think most people would agree that Blizzard does not consider an account "canceled" until the account status actually changes, when the prepaid time runs out, and NOT when someone clicks on "cancel account".



If it happens that you are right and we are all wrong, then feel free to hit us all over the head with all the "I told you so"'s you want!

grin

 

-----signature-----
Thanks, but it's been fun
Five more minutes then I'm done!
I've been saying that to myself since
...yesterday.
- from "Has anybody seen my corpse". Man Everquest rocked back in the day...
Link to this post
Quazimortal 
Title: The One and Only
Posts: 17,806
Registered: Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
If a canceled account were the same thing as an expired account, which you are suggesting, then there would be absolutely zero need for clarification. The fact that both are individually mentioned it is logical to assume that a canceled account that still has play time would be excluded, exactly as it is worded.

 

-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.” ~Leopold Stokowski
Link to this post
GutterSludge 
Posts: 4,620
Registered: Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
GutterSludge posted:
Quasi, by your logic, I have never been an "active subscriber", and therefore never had an active subscription.

 

-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
Link to this post
TruthyID 
Posts: 365
Registered: Jul 7, '10
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 365
User ID: 1,397,686
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Quazimortal posted:
If a canceled account were the same thing as an expired account, which you are suggesting, then there would be absolutely zero need for clarification. The fact that both are individually mentioned it is logical to assume that a canceled account that still has play time would be excluded, exactly as it is worded.


I think you're interpretation is wrong, understandable, but wrong. First, you're assuming that removing a recurring payment is the same thing as cancelling. I haven't seen anything to corroborate that assumption. Second, if an account was removed from the count as soon as a recurrent payment method was removed the term expired would be redundant. According to YOUR argument if they're both in there they must both be significant. This would suggest that cancelling is something else like having a csr delete the account outright.

 

-----signature-----
(none)
Link to this post
Shenron_ 
Posts: 8,665
Registered: Dec 8, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 6,513
User ID: 746,590
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
i recently opened my account again (right before they started sending those free come back for 10 days thing) and i noticed that all the new cataclysm zones are already mostly empty even during primetime. its really weird.


obviously theres still a lot of people standing around in stormwind and orgrimmar and instances but its weird that the outdoor zones are empty this soon

 

-----signature-----
(none)
Link to this post
Broken_Kayfabe 
Posts: 9,125
Registered: Feb 16, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 9,010
User ID: 646,295
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
They're probably all in other phases.

 

-----signature-----
Thanks, but it's been fun
Five more minutes then I'm done!
I've been saying that to myself since
...yesterday.
- from "Has anybody seen my corpse". Man Everquest rocked back in the day...
Link to this post
Quazimortal 
Title: The One and Only
Posts: 17,806
Registered: Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
TruthyID posted:
First, you're assuming that removing a recurring payment is the same thing as cancelling. I haven't seen anything to corroborate that assumption.


You mean aside from the fact that when you choose to remove your recurring payment you click on a link called "Cancel Game Subscription"?

TruthyID posted:
Second, if an account was removed from the count as soon as a recurrent payment method was removed the term expired would be redundant.


It would show the difference between an account that has no game time left and one that still does but will be expired soon.

 

-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.” ~Leopold Stokowski
Link to this post
GutterSludge 
Posts: 4,620
Registered: Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
So, quasi,

they COUNT Pre-paid cards, even though they "will run out soon"..


but don't count an account that is paid for by credit card, with the recurring cancelled...because "they will run out soon"???


I'm willing to hang with you until you finally understand this..but now all you have to do is really re-read your last post, and realize you just made the case against yourself.

 

-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
Link to this post
Quazimortal 
Title: The One and Only
Posts: 17,806
Registered: Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
GutterSludge posted:
So, quasi,

they COUNT Pre-paid cards, even though they "will run out soon"..


but don't count an account that is paid for by credit card, with the recurring cancelled...because "they will run out soon"???


I'm willing to hang with you until you finally understand this..but now all you have to do is really re-read your last post, and realize you just made the case against yourself.


When you use a prepaid card you are telling Blizzard, "Hey I want to play for this amount of time." Not once are you clicking a cancel subscription button.

When you use a credit card and then click the cancel button you are basically telling Blizzard, "Hey I quit."

Now maybe they have an option you can select letting Blizzard know you are only doing to to stop recurring payments in which case I would think it would be within their right to count it as an active account, but unless you choose that reason Blizzard is going to assume you are closing your account for good.

An expired account is one that has been canceled and run out of play time. A canceled account is one that has been closed but still has play time left. I challenge you to prove me wrong.

 

-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.” ~Leopold Stokowski
Link to this post
GutterSludge 
Posts: 4,620
Registered: Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
"I don't want my credit card billed" is one option in the cancellation.


When you use a credit card and then click the cancel button you are basically telling Blizzard, "Hey I quit."


No, I'm saying I don't like recurring billing, and I'll pay you again when this "subscription's paid for time (which IS counted!!!)" runs out.


Just EXACTLY like a pre-paid card.


We'll get you there eventually bro.


Edit: The game even REMINDS you that your subscription will still be active, until your paid for time(which is counted!!!) runs out.



 

-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
Link to this post
TruthyID 
Posts: 365
Registered: Jul 7, '10
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 365
User ID: 1,397,686
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Yes you click a button that says cancel my account. That doesn't necessarily mean that the account is canceled at the moment that the recurring payment is removed. The account is considered canceled when the time runs out.

The reason for the term expired is to catch players under the free month of play time. They don't have to cancel anything their time expires. The other language about promotional game time refers to the 7 free days type of program.

 

-----signature-----
(none)
Link to this post
Long_Ranger 
Posts: 11,282
Registered: Oct 5, '00
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 10,429
User ID: 47,820
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
I am marveling at the lawyering.

Ultimately, Blizz have confirmed that subs are down. Whether or not it might be a few more or less points is really moot. Subs have fallen, the sky has not. At least, not all of it. Yet.

 

-----signature-----
Long Ranger: back in Dereth again, after a seven-year sleep!
Link to this post
Quazimortal 
Title: The One and Only
Posts: 17,806
Registered: Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
GutterSludge posted:
"I don't want my credit card billed" is one option in the cancellation.


When you use a credit card and then click the cancel button you are basically telling Blizzard, "Hey I quit."


No, I'm saying I don't like recurring billing, and I'll pay you again when this "subscription's paid for time (which IS counted!!!)" runs out.


Just EXACTLY like a pre-paid card.


Quazimortal posted:
Now maybe they have an option you can select letting Blizzard know you are only doing to to stop recurring payments in which case I would think it would be within their right to count it as an active account, but unless you choose that reason Blizzard is going to assume you are closing your account for good.



GutterSludge posted:
Edit: The game even REMINDS you that your subscription will still be active, until your paid for time(which is counted!!!) runs out.


Actually it warns you that you are canceling your account and when you confirm the action it tells you your account is canceled but you still have time remaining.



TruthyID posted:
Yes you click a button that says cancel my account. That doesn't necessarily mean that the account is canceled at the moment that the recurring payment is removed. The account is considered canceled when the time runs out.

The reason for the term expired is to catch players under the free month of play time. They don't have to cancel anything their time expires. The other language about promotional game time refers to the 7 free days type of program.


In fact it does mean your account is canceled, it even tells you so. Also, when your game time has run out your account is listed as 'expired'.

 

-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.” ~Leopold Stokowski
Link to this post
GutterSludge 
Posts: 4,620
Registered: Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
No, it is listed as "Frozen"

 

-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
Link to this post
GutterSludge 
Posts: 4,620
Registered: Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Quazimortal posted:


In fact it does mean your account is canceled


If this were true, then using a pre-paid card would never be able to give one a non-cancelled account, and these would not be counted either.


Paid for time gets counted, PERIOD.

 

-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
Link to this post
Quazimortal 
Title: The One and Only
Posts: 17,806
Registered: Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Posted it twice, oops.

 

-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.” ~Leopold Stokowski
Link to this post
Quazimortal 
Title: The One and Only
Posts: 17,806
Registered: Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
GutterSludge posted:
Quazimortal posted:


In fact it does mean your account is canceled


If this were true, then using a pre-paid card would never be able to give one a non-cancelled account, and these would not be counted either.


Paid for time gets counted, PERIOD.


Except for the fact that they specifically mention it in their definition. How can you keep taking bits and pieces of the definition that you quoted and ignore the rest? That's just plain stupid.

GutterSludge posted:
No, it is listed as "Frozen"


I stand corrected. That still doesn't change the fact that you have not proven anything.

I noticed you didn't have anything to say about this...

Quazimortal posted:
Actually it warns you that you are canceling your account and when you confirm the action it tells you your account is canceled but you still have time remaining.

 

-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.” ~Leopold Stokowski
Link to this post
Broken_Kayfabe 
Posts: 9,125
Registered: Feb 16, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 9,010
User ID: 646,295
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Quazimortal posted:
I stand corrected. That still doesn't change the fact that you have not proven anything.


Actually the evidence presented against you is extremely strong. YOU haven't proven anything. You've just reiterated your opinion over and over vs valid comparisons and parallels without actually offering any support. Your entire argument depends on defining "canceled" as the instant you stop payment, and not when Blizzard actually converts the account to canceled when paid time runs out.

Until you answer the critical questions to your theory of why the IDENTICALLY FUNCTIONING methods of pre-paid cards and accounts with recurring billing stopped by not expired are treated differently, why Blizzard treated canceled as the same as expired, and why Blizzard doesn't convert an account to canceled until the time expires, you're just pissing in the wind, and eventually I suspect you'll just claim "haha i trol u!" once again to cover your mistake.

grin

 

-----signature-----
Thanks, but it's been fun
Five more minutes then I'm done!
I've been saying that to myself since
...yesterday.
- from "Has anybody seen my corpse". Man Everquest rocked back in the day...
Link to this post
Quazimortal 
Title: The One and Only
Posts: 17,806
Registered: Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
The only evidence I need is this...

GutterSludge posted:
"World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules."


from

http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/press/pressreleases.html?081121




Let me break it down for you...

"World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers."

This right here defines an active account, I think we can all agree on that part. However you guys keep referring to this bit of information like it's ironclad when in fact this part...

"The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules."

Is telling you that even if it matches part of the criteria listed before it, if it fits any of the second list it is excluded.

That means a paid subscription fee that is canceled? Excluded.

A prepaid card? Included, because you never actually canceled your account.

 

-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.” ~Leopold Stokowski
Link to this post
Broken_Kayfabe 
Posts: 9,125
Registered: Feb 16, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 9,010
User ID: 646,295
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
And the part you keep missing?

It's not canceled until time runs out.

grin

P.S. running a tally elsewhere, not a single person has agreed with you yet.

 

-----signature-----
Thanks, but it's been fun
Five more minutes then I'm done!
I've been saying that to myself since
...yesterday.
- from "Has anybody seen my corpse". Man Everquest rocked back in the day...
Link to this post
GutterSludge 
Posts: 4,620
Registered: Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Quazimortal posted:


Is telling you that even if it matches part of the criteria listed before it, if it fits any of the second list it is excluded.

That means a paid subscription fee that is canceled? Excluded.

A prepaid card? Included, because you never actually canceled your account.



Why do I need to have a form of payment for account creation?

Subscriptions do require that some form of payment information (such as a credit card) be entered before the account can be activated. At this time there is no way around this. This is required in case account play extends over 30 days, so that gameplay will not be disrupted. It also prevents customers from creating "throwaway" accounts to harass others.

Of course, please keep in mind that you are not billed for the first month of the game. Thus, if you want to set up your account immediately, you can use a credit card. Then you can easily change your payment method at any time during your free month, before your paid subscription starts.

NOTE: If you initially set up the account with a credit card, but want to switch to use only a prepaid game card, you must cancel the credit card subscription manually on your Account Management page. Otherwise, when your prepaid game card runs out, the credit card subscription will begin and the credit card will be charged.



Notice the bolded. Do you honestly think that they aren't going to "count" someone who does this, just because you are hung up on the word "cancelled"???

Hitting the "cancel" button is the easiest/only way to stop a recurring charge. They even tell you that this is how you do it. They even tell you that this is how you control how/when your card is charged. To suggest that if I pay for 6 months, and then remove my card from billing that they won't count that subscription in the numbers is just insane.

I still have 6 months of paid for game time, which is what they do count, for sure, no argument, 100%.

 

-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
Link to this post
Quazimortal 
Title: The One and Only
Posts: 17,806
Registered: Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Broken_Kayfabe posted:
And the part you keep missing?

It's not canceled until time runs out.


Except that it specifically tells you your account is canceled.

Broken_Kayfabe posted:
P.S. running a tally elsewhere, not a single person has agreed with you yet.



I really could care less if people agree with me. I'm confident that I'm correct in this argument.

 

-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.” ~Leopold Stokowski
Link to this post
GutterSludge 
Posts: 4,620
Registered: Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
I'm confident that you aren't wink

 

-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
Link to this post
Quazimortal 
Title: The One and Only
Posts: 17,806
Registered: Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
GutterSludge posted:
NOTE: If you initially set up the account with a credit card, but want to switch to use only a prepaid game card, you must cancel the credit card subscription manually on your Account Management page. Otherwise, when your prepaid game card runs out, the credit card subscription will begin and the credit card will be charged. [/i]


Notice the bolded. Do you honestly think that they aren't going to "count" someone who does this, just because you are hung up on the word "cancelled"???


When you cancel the account it becomes a canceled account and is no longer counted. Then when you activate the game card it once again becomes an active account. I don't see how that is hard to understand, it's explained in the definition of active accounts that you provided.



GutterSludge posted:
Hitting the "cancel" button is the easiest/only way to stop a recurring charge. They even tell you that this is how you do it. They even tell you that this is how you control how/when your card is charged. To suggest that if I pay for 6 months, and then remove my card from billing that they won't count that subscription in the numbers is just insane.

I still have 6 months of paid for game time, which is what they do count, for sure, no argument, 100%.


I've already conceded the point that if you choose your cancellation reason as, to stop recurring payments or however it's worded, then they might count it as an active account. However the definition you provided explicitly states that a canceled account is excluded from their definition of an active account and since it specifically states you are canceling your account when you click the cancel account link the only logical conclusion is that it's not counted as an active account.

 

-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.” ~Leopold Stokowski
Link to this post
Broken_Kayfabe 
Posts: 9,125
Registered: Feb 16, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 9,010
User ID: 646,295
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
And the evidence agrees with Gutter. Countdown to "I troll u!!" continues.

 

-----signature-----
Thanks, but it's been fun
Five more minutes then I'm done!
I've been saying that to myself since
...yesterday.
- from "Has anybody seen my corpse". Man Everquest rocked back in the day...
Link to this post
Quazimortal 
Title: The One and Only
Posts: 17,806
Registered: Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
GutterSludge posted:
I'm confident that you aren't wink


Prove it. There is no way you can logically refute what I've said about the matter. The only arguments I've seen are illogical in nature. Every point I've made is backed up by the definition of active accounts that Blizzard uses and the wording used on the account management page.

 

-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.” ~Leopold Stokowski
Link to this post
Quazimortal 
Title: The One and Only
Posts: 17,806
Registered: Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Broken_Kayfabe posted:
And the evidence agrees with Gutter. Countdown to "I troll u!!" continues.


Oh I'm not trolling in this thread. I am however laughing at the idiocy being displayed by people I thought were smarter than they are acting in this thread. I truly hope you guys are trolling me, otherwise the only conclusion I can come up with is you are retarded.

Also, Gutter hasn't provided a bit of evidence to prove his claim.

 

-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.” ~Leopold Stokowski
Link to this post
GutterSludge 
Posts: 4,620
Registered: Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
So, you are saying that some cancelled accounts with time remaining are excluded, and that some others are included, depending on how you answer the survey?


And that being the absolute only difference between the two?



Which has nothing to do with cancelled or not, paid time or not... but a survey question now?













 

-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
Link to this post
Quazimortal 
Title: The One and Only
Posts: 17,806
Registered: Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
What I'm saying is that it could be a loophole, I'm not saying it is for sure since it doesn't mention that situation. Under Blizzard's definition of an active account it still technically shouldn't be counted as an active account.

Still waiting for proof from you.

 

-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.” ~Leopold Stokowski
Link to this post
Broken_Kayfabe 
Posts: 9,125
Registered: Feb 16, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 9,010
User ID: 646,295
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Still waiting for you to explain the difference between paying for time that expires with a prepaid card and paying for time that expires with a credit card.

Oh... there isn't any?

This is bad news... for you.

grin

 

-----signature-----
Thanks, but it's been fun
Five more minutes then I'm done!
I've been saying that to myself since
...yesterday.
- from "Has anybody seen my corpse". Man Everquest rocked back in the day...
Link to this post
Quazimortal 
Title: The One and Only
Posts: 17,806
Registered: Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Broken_Kayfabe posted:
Still waiting for you to explain the difference between paying for time that expires with a prepaid card and paying for time that expires with a credit card.

Oh... there isn't any?


You mean aside from the fact that the difference is explained in Blizzard's definition of an active account? Oh I'm sorry, did I just blow your argument away with simple logic? My bad.

 

-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.” ~Leopold Stokowski
Link to this post
Broken_Kayfabe 
Posts: 9,125
Registered: Feb 16, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 9,010
User ID: 646,295
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Quazimortal posted:
Oh I'm not trolling in this thread. I am however laughing at the idiocy being displayed by people I thought were smarter than they are acting in this thread. I truly hope you guys are trolling me, otherwise the only conclusion I can come up with is you are retarded.


It's awesome how literally everyone else in this thread and everywhere else I've asked is retarded, and you, and only you, are the smart one.

doh!

 

-----signature-----
Thanks, but it's been fun
Five more minutes then I'm done!
I've been saying that to myself since
...yesterday.
- from "Has anybody seen my corpse". Man Everquest rocked back in the day...
Link to this post
Quazimortal 
Title: The One and Only
Posts: 17,806
Registered: Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
I can't help that everyone in here can't read worth a damn.

 

-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.” ~Leopold Stokowski
Link to this post
Broken_Kayfabe 
Posts: 9,125
Registered: Feb 16, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 9,010
User ID: 646,295
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Quazimortal posted:
Broken_Kayfabe posted:
Still waiting for you to explain the difference between paying for time that expires with a prepaid card and paying for time that expires with a credit card.

Oh... there isn't any?


You mean aside from the fact that the difference is explained in Blizzard's definition of an active account? Oh I'm sorry, did I just blow your argument away with simple logic? My bad.


Circular argument ftl. Your premise supposes your conclusion to be true. If that is your idea of simple logic, you must have failed it in school.

laugh

Quazi's idea of "simple logic": "Canceled accounts are considered canceled at the time they press the cancel button. How do I know this? Because they would be considered active if they weren't. Why aren't they considered active? Because they are considered canceled at the time they press the cancel button!"

 

-----signature-----
Thanks, but it's been fun
Five more minutes then I'm done!
I've been saying that to myself since
...yesterday.
- from "Has anybody seen my corpse". Man Everquest rocked back in the day...
Link to this post
GutterSludge 
Posts: 4,620
Registered: Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
"World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid ..... to play World of Warcraft.....


Logic, indeed.


 

-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
Link to this post
Broken_Kayfabe 
Posts: 9,125
Registered: Feb 16, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 9,010
User ID: 646,295
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
http://aworldofwarkraft.com/mmo-news/want-to-get-into-the-cataclysm-beta-cancel-your-subscription/

The content of the blog is unimportant. But what do we have here? Some "simple logic".

1. To access the cataclysm beta, you had to have an active WoW account.
2. Buddy's brother was invited to, and accessed, the cataclysm beta on an account that was pending expiration.

therefore...

3. Bro's account was considered active by Blizzard despite having had its recurring billing canceled.

Blizzard posted:
Q: Who is eligible for the Cataclysm Beta opt-in?

A: Any player who has an active World of Warcraft subscription, World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade, and World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King is eligible. The account must be active when the beta starts in order to be eligible to receive an invitation.


 

-----signature-----
Thanks, but it's been fun
Five more minutes then I'm done!
I've been saying that to myself since
...yesterday.
- from "Has anybody seen my corpse". Man Everquest rocked back in the day...
Link to this post
TruthyID 
Posts: 365
Registered: Jul 7, '10
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 365
User ID: 1,397,686
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Here's a quote from Blizzard that may shed some light on the subject.

"Typically, World of Warcraft subscribers purchase one to three month memberships that are cancelable, without penalty, at the end of the membership period."

Unless they're lying to the SEC they count you right up until your time runs out. Your account is only truly canceled at the end of the membership period. Seems pretty straightforward.

Besides why on earth would they want to under report their sub numbers? Talk about faulty logic.

Source: http://investor.activision.com/secfiling.cfm?filingID=1047469-11-1413

From Form 10-K
Annual Report
Filed Feb 25, 2011
Page 22


 

-----signature-----
(none)
Link to this post
Broken_Kayfabe 
Posts: 9,125
Registered: Feb 16, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 9,010
User ID: 646,295
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
I get this when I try to post on the WoW forums:

Blizzard posted:
This game license has expired or been cancelled.


How about you, Gutter... able to post there? Or, in other words, is your account (which you have stopped payment on) NOT considered expired or canceled?

If you can post on Blizzard's forums with a pending cancellation account, that proves Blizzard does not consider an account "expired or cancelled" until the time runs out.

Yes, proof.

 

-----signature-----
Thanks, but it's been fun
Five more minutes then I'm done!
I've been saying that to myself since
...yesterday.
- from "Has anybody seen my corpse". Man Everquest rocked back in the day...
Link to this post
GutterSludge 
Posts: 4,620
Registered: Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Cake.

Yes, a "pending cancellation" account can post there...it is the only type of "account" I have ever had.




 

-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
Link to this post
JaredKorry 
Posts: ????
Registered: ????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
I honestly think he is trolling. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if both Quasi and Gutter were arguing back and forth with each other just for the fun of it.

 

-----signature-----
Link to this post
Dums 
Title: Moderator
The mystery flavor

Posts: 8,245
Registered: Oct 29, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 7,576
User ID: 732,266
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
I tend to look at it like this: Your account, whenever you 'cancelled' it, remains active until the next day of your recurring payments comes along. At that moment, a flag goes up that says 'Recurring payments stopped? Y/N'. The system looks at your account, tells another system yes, and bingo, your account is now frozen.

Another way of saying that is: imo, cancelled subscriptions don't count as cancelled until the game time you paid for(hence, paid subscription) runs out.

 

-----signature-----




hi
Link to this post
Quazimortal 
Title: The One and Only
Posts: 17,806
Registered: Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
It's so sad that I'm the only one with basic reading comprehension in this thread. So sad...

 

-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.” ~Leopold Stokowski
Link to this post
Quazimortal 
Title: The One and Only
Posts: 17,806
Registered: Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Dums posted:
Another way of saying that is: imo, cancelled subscriptions don't count as cancelled until the game time you paid for(hence, paid subscription) runs out.


Why would Blizzard call your account canceled when you stop your payment if it wasn't really canceled though? By their definition a canceled account is not an active one, and it specifically says that your account is canceled when you stop payment.

 

-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.” ~Leopold Stokowski
Link to this post
Dums 
Title: Moderator
The mystery flavor

Posts: 8,245
Registered: Oct 29, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 7,576
User ID: 732,266
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Right, but if you re-activate the account for a day, pay for a month, then cancel the next day, the account is still open for that month, meaning you paid for that whole month and your account is active for that entire month, until that next recurring payment comes along and you no longer pay. Then your account is 'frozen'.

For what it's worth, I see what you're saying, I just don't think that's how it works. Not that it's a big deal, anyway.

 

-----signature-----




hi
Link to this post
Dums 
Title: Moderator
The mystery flavor

Posts: 8,245
Registered: Oct 29, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 7,576
User ID: 732,266
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Maybe if you look at it from a purely financial standpoint you'll see what I'm saying. When you go and stop your subscription, you cancel further payments. Your account remains active until the day comes along that your account shifts to 'frozen'. So while your further payments are canceled, your account remains 'active' until that day.

 

-----signature-----




hi
Link to this post
siujoey 
Posts: 4,944
Registered: Dec 26, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,893
User ID: 575,651
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
There is a lot of troll feeding in this thread. Quazi isn't that dumb. (I don't think.)

 

-----signature-----
I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
Link to this post
Trigeminal 
Title: Drill, Fill, Bill
Posts: 11,233
Registered: Mar 17, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 11,153
User ID: 658,468
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
siujoey posted:
There is a lot of troll feeding in this thread. Quazi isn't that dumb. (I don't think.)


He's not dumb if he's trying to troll. He is pure genius. He is only dumb if he believes what he types.

 

-----signature-----
PvPing since 1975
Link to this post
The_Korrigan 
Title: Scrub Buster
Posts: 21,660
Registered: Jul 17, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 21,292
User ID: 255,861
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
JaredKorry posted:
I honestly think he is trolling. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if both Quasi and Gutter were arguing back and forth with each other just for the fun of it.
Must be the same person on an alt account in my opinion thinking tongue

 

-----signature-----
SWTOR: 50 Jedi Shadow (Tank), 50 Sith Marauder (Annihilation).
LOTRO: Lifetime account, playing very casually.
WoW: Both accounts canceled for now.
GW2: Future Warrior.
Link to this post
Boone-Eldar 
Title: Infallible
Posts: 16,589
Registered: Dec 28, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 16,173
User ID: 580,486
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Quazimortal posted:


Also, Gutter hasn't provided a bit of evidence to prove his claim.


And that is different from when?

 

-----signature-----
Seriously?
raised_brow
Link to this post
Spookysheep 
Title: Lieker of Cheese
Posts: 21,595
Registered: Jan 9, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 21,166
User ID: 601,475
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
The_Korrigan posted:
JaredKorry posted:
I honestly think he is trolling. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if both Quasi and Gutter were arguing back and forth with each other just for the fun of it.
Must be the same person on an alt account in my opinion thinking tongue



Sounds like solid experience speaking right there thinking

 

-----signature-----
I liek cheese
Pirates > Ninjas
.....................................
Link to this post
siujoey 
Posts: 4,944
Registered: Dec 26, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,893
User ID: 575,651
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Trigeminal posted:
siujoey posted:
There is a lot of troll feeding in this thread. Quazi isn't that dumb. (I don't think.)


He's not dumb if he's trying to troll. He is pure juvenile. He is only dumb if he believes what he types.



Fixed.


Stupidity = Posting things that display your ignorance publicly.
Trolling = Realizing you just displayed your stupidity, recognizing it, following it up with "Trolled!!1!!11"

 

-----signature-----
I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
Link to this post
-Mythril- 
Title: International Man of Mythery
Posts: 12,141
Registered: Jan 6, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 11,989
User ID: 61,530
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Y'all are resorting to arguing about some truly worthless crap.

 

-----signature-----
Tongue-tied and twisted. Just an earthbound misfit; I.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mythphisto- Hunter;
Too many alts to list.
Link to this post
JaredKorry 
Posts: ????
Registered: ????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Spookysheep posted:
The_Korrigan posted:
JaredKorry posted:
I honestly think he is trolling. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if both Quasi and Gutter were arguing back and forth with each other just for the fun of it.
Must be the same person on an alt account in my opinion thinking tongue



Sounds like solid experience speaking right there thinking



laugh

 

-----signature-----
Link to this post
kyrv 
Title: Lord Logicus
Posts: 14,420
Registered: Jan 31, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 14,357
User ID: 639,081
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Quazi, I agree that they stated the rules in a faulty matter.

But, if you take the sentence you have, and apply it in context, and most of all, apply logic, paid for subs count as paid for subs.

Why would WoW under report their subs? (Answer: they would not)

I mean they count people on a free month as subs. Those by definition are NOT subs. But they count them.

Again it's very poor wording. Very, very poor. Awful. If you can come up with an answer that Blizzard is motivated to report paying subs as not being paying subs, please share with the class.

Companies use poor wording. Rift sent an email telling me account was SUSPENDED. Wow, did I get hacked? No, what they meant was, my paid time was up and the account was not active. Very poor wording.

 

-----signature-----
CO, LOTRO, RoM, PWI, CoH
Dragon Age
Link to this post
kyrv 
Title: Lord Logicus
Posts: 14,420
Registered: Jan 31, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 14,357
User ID: 639,081
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Dums posted:
I tend to look at it like this: Your account, whenever you 'cancelled' it, remains active until the next day of your recurring payments comes along. At that moment, a flag goes up that says 'Recurring payments stopped? Y/N'. The system looks at your account, tells another system yes, and bingo, your account is now frozen.

Another way of saying that is: imo, cancelled subscriptions don't count as cancelled until the game time you paid for(hence, paid subscription) runs out.


Bingo. happy

 

-----signature-----
CO, LOTRO, RoM, PWI, CoH
Dragon Age
Link to this post
GutterSludge 
Posts: 4,620
Registered: Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
What is funny is that to reach Quasi's conclusion, one has to ignore so many other facts that it just becomes laughable.


Quasi, here is the nail in the coffin of your "theory".


As stated earlier, "expired or cancelled" is Blizzard's way of saying "Frozen" accounts.


This was proven earlier by Broken, and I just verified it.


When I attempt to post on the official forums, with my FROZEN account, I received the message, "This game license has expired or been cancelled. "


There you have it. Proof positive that "Frozen" = "expired or cancelled", and therefore "Frozen" accounts are not counted.


Since I do not receive this message when I post on the forums with an account with the method of payment removed,(that still has paid for game time) my account at that point and time is NOT "expired or cancelled", or I would receive the exact same error message as before, and not be allowed to post.


And yes, I will feed the troll for as long as he want to make an idiot of himself...







 

-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
Link to this post
GutterSludge 
Posts: 4,620
Registered: Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
The_Korrigan posted:
JaredKorry posted:
I honestly think he is trolling. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if both Quasi and Gutter were arguing back and forth with each other just for the fun of it.
Must be the same person on an alt account in my opinion thinking tongue




When you do this, you agree with yourself, Korr.


 

-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
Link to this post
GutterSludge 
Posts: 4,620
Registered: Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
JaredKorry posted:
I honestly think he is trolling. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if both Quasi and Gutter were arguing back and forth with each other just for the fun of it.



Correct on my end.

What is sad is that I could argue his side way better than he is.

 

-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
Link to this post
GutterSludge 
Posts: 4,620
Registered: Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Boone-Eldar posted:
Quazimortal posted:


Also, Gutter hasn't provided a bit of evidence to prove his claim.


And that is different from when?




Sorry If I don't dumb down the evidence to pre-kindergarten levels for you, Boone.


You'll catch up one of these days...if the rest of us start going backwards..

maybe....


 

-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
Link to this post
Boone-Eldar 
Title: Infallible
Posts: 16,589
Registered: Dec 28, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 16,173
User ID: 580,486
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
GutterSludge posted:


Sorry If I never present any evidence at all and just talk out of my ass.




Fixed.

 

-----signature-----
Seriously?
raised_brow
Link to this post
GutterSludge 
Posts: 4,620
Registered: Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Typical response...

What you really meant to say is that, "Gutter's logic and reasoning are so sound I could never provide any facts to disprove anything he ever says."


It's ok, I fully realize that is like a 4th grade sentence, so I don't mind helping you.


You're welcome wink


Edit: And notice, as always, that you add nothing to the conversation?


 

-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
Link to this post
JaredKorry 
Posts: ????
Registered: ????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
GutterSludge posted:
JaredKorry posted:
I honestly think he is trolling. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if both Quasi and Gutter were arguing back and forth with each other just for the fun of it.



Correct on my end.

What is sad is that I could argue his side way better than he is.


Just for kicks and giggles, I wanna see you do that. laugh

 

-----signature-----
Link to this post
GutterSludge 
Posts: 4,620
Registered: Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
I usually choose the side that is most difficult to present...

He beat me to it on this one though wink

 

-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
Link to this post
Boone-Eldar 
Title: Infallible
Posts: 16,589
Registered: Dec 28, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 16,173
User ID: 580,486
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
GutterSludge posted:



Edit: And notice, as always, that you add nothing to the conversation?





Didn't I? Hmm did you read the thread?

 

-----signature-----
Seriously?
raised_brow
Link to this post
GutterSludge 
Posts: 4,620
Registered: Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
And not once did you post any "evidence"....just opinions on football, 5 mans, how they count subscriptions etc...


Evidence is ALL that matters, right?

So no, by your own definition, you added ZERO to the discussion.


Damn you make this too easy.

 

-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
Link to this post
Boone-Eldar 
Title: Infallible
Posts: 16,589
Registered: Dec 28, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 16,173
User ID: 580,486
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
GutterSludge posted:
And not once did you post any "evidence"....just opinions on football, 5 mans, how they count subscriptions etc...


Evidence is ALL that matters, right?

So no, by your own definition, you added ZERO to the discussion.


Damn you make this too easy.


Hmm wouldn't the number of Rift subscribers be considered evidence?

 

-----signature-----
Seriously?
raised_brow
Link to this post
GutterSludge 
Posts: 4,620
Registered: Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
I'm gunnah need 3 independent sources, all verifiable, and a sworn statement from each signed in front of a notary.


Or, I could just take your word for it, and consider it "common knowledge".



One of these makes sense, the other is your apparent view on things.

 

-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
Link to this post
Deionnara 
Posts: 9,463
Registered: Dec 28, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 9,321
User ID: 580,237
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Boobies.

 

-----signature-----
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Stormreaver&n=Nadja
People climbing up the walls
Breaking all of my wretched dolls
Fingernails they scratch outside
In the attic is where I'll hide
Link to this post
siujoey 
Posts: 4,944
Registered: Dec 26, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,893
User ID: 575,651
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Deionnara posted:
Boobies.


You can't argue with boobies. I believe this thread is over.

 

-----signature-----
I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
Link to this post
GutterSludge 
Posts: 4,620
Registered: Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Boobies rock!!


And no, I am not posting evidence to back up that claim!!

 

-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
Link to this post
Trigeminal 
Title: Drill, Fill, Bill
Posts: 11,233
Registered: Mar 17, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 11,153
User ID: 658,468
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
siujoey posted:
Deionnara posted:
Boobies.


You can't argue with boobies. I believe this thread is over.


Boobies > Moobies

 

-----signature-----
PvPing since 1975
Link to this post
Deionnara 
Posts: 9,463
Registered: Dec 28, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 9,321
User ID: 580,237
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Eye bleach, stat!

 

-----signature-----
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Stormreaver&n=Nadja
People climbing up the walls
Breaking all of my wretched dolls
Fingernails they scratch outside
In the attic is where I'll hide
Link to this post
-Peo- 
Title: Caveat Lector
Posts: 3,208
Registered: Feb 2, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 3,155
User ID: 1,024,262
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Rift subs are pure conjecture.

 

-----signature-----
SWTOR, Maybe in a year.
Back to WoW for now.
With a lil f2p CoH.
Link to this post
Boone-Eldar 
Title: Infallible
Posts: 16,589
Registered: Dec 28, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 16,173
User ID: 580,486
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
-Peo- posted:
Rift subs are pure conjecture.


Is it?

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/33208/Rift_Reaches_Over_1_Million_Registered_Accounts.php

They hit 1 million registered accounts back in February.

 

-----signature-----
Seriously?
raised_brow
Link to this post
Quazimortal 
Title: The One and Only
Posts: 17,806
Registered: Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
/yawn

Just woke up, looks like I'm still right about it. happy

GutterSludge posted:
I usually choose the side that is most difficult to present...

He beat me to it on this one though wink


I'm slick like that. cool

 

-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.” ~Leopold Stokowski
Link to this post
The-Sofa-King 
Title: King of the Futons
Posts: 26,430
Registered: Jul 9, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 25,967
User ID: 695,982
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
GrimTempest posted:
i think they need to pay more attention to character progression and depth.


That would be an option if they hadn't turned Arena's into an "e-sport." The moment they touch individual character progression and depth, they make a ton of work for the developers to try and keep everything balanced so that their "e-sport" can still be considered competitive.

But I agree with you in that there really isn't anything that makes one mage stick out from another mage anymore and it's somewhat disappointing.

 

-----signature-----
Link to this post
-Peo- 
Title: Caveat Lector
Posts: 3,208
Registered: Feb 2, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 3,155
User ID: 1,024,262
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Boone-Eldar posted:
-Peo- posted:
Rift subs are pure conjecture.


Is it?

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/33208/Rift_Reaches_Over_1_Million_Registered_Accounts.php

They hit 1 million registered accounts back in February.


Yes it is, because you want Rift to be the reason WoW is loosing subs, you attribute Rift as the reason WoW is loosing subs. You can offer not one piece of proof that the 2 correlate. Your assumption is pure conjecture.

 

-----signature-----
SWTOR, Maybe in a year.
Back to WoW for now.
With a lil f2p CoH.
Link to this post
kyrv 
Title: Lord Logicus
Posts: 14,420
Registered: Jan 31, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 14,357
User ID: 639,081
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
-Peo- posted:
Boone-Eldar posted:
-Peo- posted:
Rift subs are pure conjecture.


Is it?

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/33208/Rift_Reaches_Over_1_Million_Registered_Accounts.php

They hit 1 million registered accounts back in February.


Yes it is, because you want Rift to be the reason WoW is loosing subs, you attribute Rift as the reason WoW is loosing subs. You can offer not one piece of proof that the 2 correlate. Your assumption is pure conjecture.


WoW is not loosing subs.

 

-----signature-----
CO, LOTRO, RoM, PWI, CoH
Dragon Age
Link to this post
Sprindex 
Posts: 31
Registered: Mar 3, '11
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 31
User ID: 1,415,119
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Yup I called it quits 3 weeks after release of Cataclysm.

They ruined the classes, degraded the detail of gear & weapons.

The Dungeons got crazy as well as the requirements for them.

Unless you're a Healer or Tank the wait for dungeons is an hour or more.

Even the wait on the Battlegrounds is over 30min.

 

-----signature-----
(none)
Link to this post
Boone-Eldar 
Title: Infallible
Posts: 16,589
Registered: Dec 28, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 16,173
User ID: 580,486
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
-Peo- posted:
Boone-Eldar posted:
-Peo- posted:
Rift subs are pure conjecture.


Is it?

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/33208/Rift_Reaches_Over_1_Million_Registered_Accounts.php

They hit 1 million registered accounts back in February.


Yes it is, because you want Rift to be the reason WoW is loosing subs, you attribute Rift as the reason WoW is loosing subs. You can offer not one piece of proof that the 2 correlate. Your assumption is pure conjecture.


Yes because it is logical to think that all of the registered accounts for Rift are from people who did not play World of Warcraft.

Actually I attributed it to the reason why they have lost more subs than previous expansions, not lose subs in general.

But you are right, I can not offer any proof because there is not any information on the number of people who left World of Warcraft to play Rift for me to do so. That being said there is more than enough correlation based on past history to confidently say that a good portion of the Rift registered accounts were made up of World of Warcraft players. 400,000 that cancelled their World of Warcraft subscriptions to play Rift? I don't know, but there is certainly a significant amount.

 

-----signature-----
Seriously?
raised_brow
Link to this post
TruthyID 
Posts: 365
Registered: Jul 7, '10
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 365
User ID: 1,397,686
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Hopefully the loss of so many subs will cause Blizzard to reconsider the direction they've been heading in with WoW. They've done a pretty good job of pretending that there aren't any problems with their new design philosophy by whitewashing their forums but there's really no ignoring the loss of 600,000 subscribers in just a few months.

 

-----signature-----
(none)
Link to this post
Quazimortal 
Title: The One and Only
Posts: 17,806
Registered: Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
TruthyID posted:
Hopefully the loss of so many subs will cause Blizzard to reconsider the direction they've been heading in with WoW.


All you have to do is look at the current 4.2 patch notes to know they haven't reconsidered anything.

 

-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.” ~Leopold Stokowski
Link to this post
Boone-Eldar 
Title: Infallible
Posts: 16,589
Registered: Dec 28, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 16,173
User ID: 580,486
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Quazimortal posted:
TruthyID posted:
Hopefully the loss of so many subs will cause Blizzard to reconsider the direction they've been heading in with WoW.


All you have to do is look at the current 4.2 patch notes to know they haven't reconsidered anything.


How so? They are adding a whole grip of solo content, along with a new raid instance.

They usually add in a new tier of vendor gear as well, which while it has not been announced would be how things usually go. Justice points will be converted to Valor and heroic bosses will award Valor instead of Justice with a new point denomination replacing Valor and gained in the same manner Valor is now. You will be able to put a full 359 gear set together pretty easy and trivialize all the current heroic content.

 

-----signature-----
Seriously?
raised_brow
Link to this post
TruthyID 
Posts: 365
Registered: Jul 7, '10
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 365
User ID: 1,397,686
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Boone-Eldar posted:
-Peo- posted:
Boone-Eldar posted:
[quote=-Peo-]Rift subs are pure conjecture.


Is it?

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/33208/Rift_Reaches_Over_1_Million_Registered_Accounts.php

They hit 1 million registered accounts back in February.


Yes it is, because you want Rift to be the reason WoW is loosing subs, you attribute Rift as the reason WoW is loosing subs. You can offer not one piece of proof that the 2 correlate. Your assumption is pure conjecture.


Yes because it is logical to think that all of the registered accounts for Rift are from people who did not play World of Warcraft.

Actually I attributed it to the reason why they have lost more subs than previous expansions, not lose subs in general.

But you are right, I can not offer any proof because there is not any information on the number of people who left World of Warcraft to play Rift for me to do so. That being said there is more than enough correlation based on past history to confidently say that a good portion of the Rift registered accounts were made up of World of Warcraft players. 400,000 that cancelled their World of Warcraft subscriptions to play Rift? I don't know, but there is certainly a significant amount.[/quote]

I think you're really overemphasizing the impact that Rift has had on WoW. Yes people who were unhappy with WoW have switched to Rift but that doesn't mean that Blizzard isn't ultimately responsible for losing them as customers. People were willing to abandon their friends, guilds, and the huge investment that they've made in their toons to move to Rift because they felt it was a better use of their entertainment dollars and time. That says a hell of a lot about the new expansion, which couldn't even hold people's attention for 3 months.

Warhammer came out right around the same time as WotLK and there was no similarly sized exodus of players from WoW even with over 1 million copies of WAR sold. The difference this time is that Cataclysm was a significant departure from the other expansions. They took a gamble and it doesn't seem to be paying off.

If you want to understand the real reason for the loss of subs spend 2 minutes on the official forums and see how unhappy people are with the constant, ham-handed, changes they're making to this game.

 

-----signature-----
(none)
Link to this post
Spookysheep 
Title: Lieker of Cheese
Posts: 21,595
Registered: Jan 9, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 21,166
User ID: 601,475
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
WTF is wrong with you people. This thread is about BOOBIES!

 

-----signature-----
I liek cheese
Pirates > Ninjas
.....................................
Link to this post
Quazimortal 
Title: The One and Only
Posts: 17,806
Registered: Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Boone-Eldar posted:
Quazimortal posted:
TruthyID posted:
Hopefully the loss of so many subs will cause Blizzard to reconsider the direction they've been heading in with WoW.


All you have to do is look at the current 4.2 patch notes to know they haven't reconsidered anything.


How so? They are adding a whole grip of solo content, along with a new raid instance.

They usually add in a new tier of vendor gear as well, which while it has not been announced would be how things usually go. Justice points will be converted to Valor and heroic bosses will award Valor instead of Justice with a new point denomination replacing Valor and gained in the same manner Valor is now. You will be able to put a full 359 gear set together pretty easy and trivialize all the current heroic content.


The current direction being making a healer's job absolutely painful and a chore. Adding a new zone to solo in and a new raid makes no difference on that aspect. Neither does a new tier of gear when you apply it to what will be the new current content. Sure the old stuff will be easier but that's been true for years now and has no bearing on anything.

When the ICC 5-mans were released it was challenging but healing wasn't the headache it is now. That's what makes WoW the crap hole it is now, I could care less about solo content.

 

-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.” ~Leopold Stokowski
Link to this post
Blisteringballs 
Posts: 2,247
Registered: Aug 12, '09
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 2,247
User ID: 1,366,612
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Yep. Healing is rote and hectic, and doesn't feel like you're doing much for all of the effort invested. Besides, most encounters are a mix of gear checks and instant-kill mechanics, so it ultimately seems like it doesn't mater how good the healer is.

God Blizzard has just fucked up so badly lately. It is amazing Ghost Crawler is still employed. He's a laughing stock of game design at this point.

 

-----signature-----
Link to this post
Quazimortal 
Title: The One and Only
Posts: 17,806
Registered: Sep 18, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 17,157
User ID: 968,129
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
It really blows my mind what they did to the game. When I was raiding heroic ICC 10-man I was having a blast playing a healer, even when we were having difficulties on certain bosses. Nowadays I don't even have fun on the bosses that we easily defeat and I don't even want to get started on the amount of frustration I have on the ones we have troubles with. How do you go from a really fun game design to one that sucks that bad?

 

-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.” ~Leopold Stokowski
Link to this post
Sprawl-zero1eye- 
Title: IGN Vault Staff
Reziztance iz Futile

Posts: 53,263
Registered: Jun 28, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 52,657
User ID: 692,733
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Did someone say boobies?!

 

-----signature-----
Mirkwood MUD, OneEye IvoryFang, Lord of the VampireZ (Retired)
AC Frostfell, Clan Z - Lvl 239 Grief Dagger (Retired)
WoW Lightbringer Alliance, Z Guild - Lvl 85 Combat Rogue (Retired)
Making iOS Apps these days at http://zsprawl.com/iOS
Link to this post
Trigeminal 
Title: Drill, Fill, Bill
Posts: 11,233
Registered: Mar 17, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 11,153
User ID: 658,468
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
( o Y o )

 

-----signature-----
PvPing since 1975
Link to this post
arenyc_uno 
Posts: ????
Registered: ????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
As someone who doesn't have the time to dive into raiding, this game is very very dull. I'm so tired of leveling, running the new heroics is so frustrating because no one seems to know what to do, archaeology? give me a break. There really is nothing out there to do for me.

 

-----signature-----
Link to this post
Arcilite_I 
Title: VN's Most Wanted
Posts: 34,414
Registered: Jan 27, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 33,674
User ID: 633,598
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
WoW is a piece of trash now. The only reason it maintains the sub base it does is because WoW was those sub's first MMO and they simply don't know any better.

If you've convinced yourself of anything to the contrary you have the perception of a gnat.

 

-----signature-----


PvPing since 1977
Link to this post
JaredKorry 
Posts: ????
Registered: ????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Arcilite_I posted:
WoW is a piece of trash now. The only reason it maintains the sub base it does is because WoW was those sub's first MMO and they simply don't know any better.

If you've convinced yourself of anything to the contrary you have the perception of a gnat.


I do agree that the game's quality is at an all time low, in my opinion, but that doesn't mean someone who is still enjoying the game is wrong or stupid for doing so. Besides, you don't even play, so you wouldn't have any recent, first hand experiences to speak of. :P

 

-----signature-----
Link to this post
Arcilite_I 
Title: VN's Most Wanted
Posts: 34,414
Registered: Jan 27, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 33,674
User ID: 633,598
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
I can read patch notes to stay up to date. I didn't use the words 'stupid' or 'wrong' anywhere in my post.

Acquire some reading comprehension before you reply to anything I post again please.

Or you could just stfu altogether and save us both some time.

 

-----signature-----


PvPing since 1977
Link to this post
Turumbar-HG 
Posts: 15,483
Registered: Dec 10, '00
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 15,010
User ID: 58,337
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Well, WoW is not my first MMO and I'm still subscribed.

And while there are a few things I don't like about it, it is still far from a piece of trash in my opinion.

 

-----signature-----
Turumbar and his merry band of Alts
Link to this post
Arcilite_I 
Title: VN's Most Wanted
Posts: 34,414
Registered: Jan 27, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 33,674
User ID: 633,598
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
In your opinion.

 

-----signature-----


PvPing since 1977
Link to this post
Turumbar-HG 
Posts: 15,483
Registered: Dec 10, '00
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 15,010
User ID: 58,337
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Which is just as valid as yours.

Although I'm not arrogant enough to ridicule people for not agreeing with mine.

 

-----signature-----
Turumbar and his merry band of Alts
Link to this post
Boone-Eldar 
Title: Infallible
Posts: 16,589
Registered: Dec 28, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 16,173
User ID: 580,486
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Turumbar-HG posted:
Which is just as valid as yours.

Although I'm not arrogant enough to ridicule people for not agreeing with mine.


It isn't arrogance on his part. It is the exact opposite.

 

-----signature-----
Seriously?
raised_brow
Link to this post
_Taebo_ 
Posts: 18,672
Registered: Feb 28, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 18,201
User ID: 70,868
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Sprindex posted:
Yup I called it quits 3 weeks after release of Cataclysm.

They ruined the classes, degraded the detail of gear & weapons.

The Dungeons got crazy as well as the requirements for them.

Unless you're a Healer or Tank the wait for dungeons is an hour or more.

Even the wait on the Battlegrounds is over 30min.



This pretty much sums up why I'm not playing.

 

-----signature-----
May the best MMORPG win.
VNBoards: Where user speculation and opinion are always facts.
Link to this post
JaredKorry 
Posts: ????
Registered: ????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Arcilite_I posted:
I can read patch notes to stay up to date. I didn't use the words 'stupid' or 'wrong' anywhere in my post.

Acquire some reading comprehension before you reply to anything I post again please.

Or you could just stfu altogether and save us both some time.


Are you really going to play the semantic game? Really? Is that the best you can come back with? shame_on_you

 

-----signature-----
Link to this post
Kordirn 
Title: Pirate Prince
Posts: 23,453
Registered: Apr 19, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 23,192
User ID: 915,876
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
_Taebo_ posted:
Sprindex posted:
Yup I called it quits 3 weeks after release of Cataclysm.

They ruined the classes, degraded the detail of gear & weapons.

The Dungeons got crazy as well as the requirements for them.

Unless you're a Healer or Tank the wait for dungeons is an hour or more.

Even the wait on the Battlegrounds is over 30min.



This pretty much sums up why I'm not playing.


 

-----signature-----
ooOooo oOoOO OOo
Link to this post
Arcilite_I 
Title: VN's Most Wanted
Posts: 34,414
Registered: Jan 27, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 33,674
User ID: 633,598
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
JaredKorry posted:
Arcilite_I posted:
I can read patch notes to stay up to date. I didn't use the words 'stupid' or 'wrong' anywhere in my post.

Acquire some reading comprehension before you reply to anything I post again please.

Or you could just stfu altogether and save us both some time.


Are you really going to play the semantic game? Really? Is that the best you can come back with? shame_on_you


Semantics have nothing to do with you interpreting what I posted instead of just reading it. I'm not at fault here.

 

-----signature-----


PvPing since 1977
Link to this post
JaredKorry 
Posts: ????
Registered: ????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
laugh Keep on dancing around that semantic line! Unless, of course, you think gnats are perceptive, intelligent insects, then saying someone has the perception of a gnat if they don't agree with your opinion of the game, is pretty much calling someone stupid. You actually look silly trying to play the innocent game.

 

-----signature-----
Link to this post
GutterSludge 
Posts: 4,620
Registered: Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Which MMO's have you played, Korr?

 

-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
Link to this post
Arcilite_I 
Title: VN's Most Wanted
Posts: 34,414
Registered: Jan 27, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 33,674
User ID: 633,598
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
JaredKorry posted:
laugh Keep on dancing around that semantic line! Unless, of course, you think gnats are perceptive, intelligent insects, then saying someone has the perception of a gnat if they don't agree with your opinion of the game, is pretty much calling someone stupid. You actually look silly trying to play the innocent game.


Again, this is nothing but your interpretation of what I said.

 

-----signature-----


PvPing since 1977
Link to this post
JaredKorry 
Posts: ????
Registered: ????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
So, tell us, since my interpretation is so wrong and you weren't actually trying to belittle or insult those who disagree with you, what exactly did you mean by "If you've convinced yourself of anything to the contrary you have the perception of a gnat." confused

 

-----signature-----
Link to this post
Arcilite_I 
Title: VN's Most Wanted
Posts: 34,414
Registered: Jan 27, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 33,674
User ID: 633,598
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
It isn't a Rubik's cube. If you can't comprehend it then you're beyond having it explained to you.

 

-----signature-----


PvPing since 1977
Link to this post
JaredKorry 
Posts: ????
Registered: ????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
LOL. God, I love watching you dance! love

 

-----signature-----
Link to this post
GutterSludge 
Posts: 4,620
Registered: Nov 6, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,545
User ID: 1,091,587
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
GutterSludge posted:
Which MMO's have you played, Korr?

 

-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
Link to this post
JaredKorry 
Posts: ????
Registered: ????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Arcilite_I posted:
You're wrong but I'm not going to tell why you are wrong. Just take my word for it. I say you are wrong, therefore you are wrong.



Fixed.

 

-----signature-----
Link to this post
Blisteringballs 
Posts: 2,247
Registered: Aug 12, '09
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 2,247
User ID: 1,366,612
Subject: "Subscriber levels have decreased faster than previous expansions,"
Thinking about it, there's probably some truth in the statement that a lack of new content is having an effect - though that's probably not entirely true, since what content is available isn't very substantial and the increased difficulty and gated advancement affects casuals and semi-casuals far more than Blizzard was anticipating. Throw in the arrogant dismissal of feedback and all of the other new niggling things you see people complaining about on the forums/blogs/Amazon reviews/etc and you have a recipe for a MMO that lost touch with not only its base but even some of its more hardcore fans.

And it still kills me to see the hardcore fans dismissing the impact of a 600k drop in subscribers, which Blizzard all but outright admitted is largely from the Western and Oceanic audience. I've heard a lot of things such as "600k is a drop in the bucket for a MMO with 12 million customers". Which completely ignores that fact that only about 6 million of those customers have access to Cataclysm, not even all of those purchased it, so it's a drop of at most 10% of the $15/month crowd, most likely closer to 8-9%. Factor in that massive, rapid attrition in MMOs usually doesn't stop, and yea, Blizzard should be worried. I don't think they need to just completely fold and start trying to please everyone and make some kind of weak-sounding apology - but basically thumbing their nose and making forum posts like "oh hey we got this, you can dance in combat again so now everyone will be happy" is probably worse than just shutting the F up.

 

-----signature-----
Link to this post

Valid XHTML 1.0 Transitional Powered by PHP