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Boards Archive] |
Welcome to the Vault Network
forum archive.
This is not a complete archive, time didn't allot us the
opportunity to properly backup the majority of the boards
deemed "expendable". Most boards on this list have at least
20-40 pages archived (non-logged in pages, 15 topics per
page).
Popular boards may have as many as 250 pages archived at 50
topics per page, while others deemed of historical
signifigance may be archived in their entirety.
We may not agree with how the board shutdown was managed, but
we've done what we could to preserve some of its history in
lieu of that.
Please enjoy the archive.
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Managers, Moderators, VIP's, and regular posters.
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Topic: OMG how can this happen?
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Taloquin
Posts:
360
Registered:
Nov 20, '03
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 358
User ID: 860,145
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Subject:
OMG how can this happen?
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I can't believe it. I think I might be ill. Ghostcrawler finally made a blog post, or part of one, that I might actually agree with. It's even one that he doesn't go off on how bad a player every subscriber is.
Ghostcrawler posted:
So when do we cross over from having “enough†cool abilities to “too many†cool abilities? The depth that comes from lots and lots of content can feel cool to a veteran player, but even for them, the intended role and nuance of every ability can become blurred. For the new or returning player, it just becomes incomprehensible.
A warrior who took some time off after Lich King and then came back to Cataclysm recently would have to relearn her rotation. Raging Blow? What’s that about? Yeah, it might be more interesting than just spamming Bloodthirst, Heroic Strike, and Whirlwind (even on single targets) like Fury warriors did in Icecrown Citadel, but it’s also just one more thing to learn. Even if the new rotation itself isn’t all that complicated, the fact that the design changed over time makes it feel more confusing than it really is at any one moment in time.
Also remember, that to be the best that you can be, you need to understand the abilities of every class, not just your own. Yikes. We designers have to be vigilant to keep complexity at a manageable level, not just for veterans who are active on the forums, but for returning players who want to see what changes Cataclysm brought to the game.
Greg “Ghostcrawler†Street is the lead systems designer for World of Warcraft. He prefers Greek mythology over Roman. Cooler names.
This is one of the big problems the game has faced since 4.0 for me. Every class changed so much that it wasn't even remotely the class it used to be. Everything from DKs to Shadow Priests. For me, having to adjust to all of the changes, some of them more complicated than others, has been a major turn-off for me.
Shadow priest AE went down the drain while we ran around constantly trying to get shadow images to pop, all the while spamming SW:P to get the images to spawn. Sure, it might be more interesting than just spamming Mind Sear over and over, but it has gone over the deep end.
Ret Paladins have to plan to use Holy Power to keep a buff up, all the while trying to use the same Holy Power to deal damage, again all while trying to track which proc buffs they have. All of this despite the fact that Blizzard at once point said they wanted to create a combo system for Ret, so once you used X ability, Y ability would be usable and/or cause more damage.
DKs totally lost any semblance of a rotation, and every spec was blasted with drastic changes. Instant recharging of runes definitely throws things off though since you spend more time looking at your rune display to see what's up than the actual fight. And making Blood the tank spec... really? Yeah, let's make the tank take responsibility for leading the group, watching for adds, keeping track of all mobs to make sure they aren't beating on a stupid dps, AND let's add in having to heal ourselves as well to make up for our lack of defense. Healing + Tanking = fail, and makes for OP specs that can solo things that others could never dream of. Just look at the DK videos on MMO-Champion. And I honestly doubt I could play this class without the use of the Tidy Plates Threat Plates addon.
One of the things I used to love about this game was, I hate to say it, the simplicity of it. Even then though it wasn't really that simple. You couldn't just mash buttons and expect to win, at least for most classes. You had to hit the right buttons in the right order at the right time. Now, you have to hit even more buttons, at EXACTLY the right time, and in an order you aren't too sure about without specific occurrences in any given fight. It's come down to watching the UI more so than watching the game.
I don't know, maybe it's just me and the fact that I'm getting older. But I have long since given up twitch games. I used to play WoW to relax and enjoy myself, not to hunch over my keyboard and stare at the screen without blinking for fear of hitting the wrong button at the wrong time.
Or maybe I'm just getting too old for video games. I don't think I am since I can still kick ass in SSF2T on my 3DO, but maybe my mentality of game playing is just antiquated.
-----signature-----
I'm a lurker and I know it.
Post count just means you spend too much time reading and not enough playing. :P
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Diskent
Posts:
209
Registered:
Nov 4, '09
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 209
User ID: 1,375,477
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Subject:
OMG how can this happen?
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It goes beyond just how you play your character, it is also the incorporation of quest helper into the standard UI. When I resubbed last January I thought it was great that Blizzard incorporated quest helper, but I quickly remembered why I stopped using Quest helper years ago. It removes all semblance of discovery from the game.
Now, not only does the game, tells you what abilities to use and when, it also tells you where to take your character too, and the game puts a sparkle on anything you have to manipulate for quests. Hell at this point they may as well port all quest mobs and items to you. WoW has always spoon fed content, but Blizzard has taken it to extreme now.
I have already uninstalled the 25 GIG POS and my subscription expires on the 16th... WOW just sucks....
-----signature-----
(none)
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Spookysheep
Title: Lieker of Cheese
Posts:
21,595
Registered:
Jan 9, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 21,166
User ID: 601,475
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Subject:
OMG how can this happen?
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At least GC is admitting that blizzard is not trying, at all, to keep veteran players but instead they are trying to make money by constantly getting new players (who don't know any better yet).
I guess they figure they can make more money by scamming new players into subscriptions for the biggest bait and switch game of all time, instead of actually designing a game that their once loyal players enjoyed for years.
-----signature-----
I liek cheese
Pirates > Ninjas
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Pheace
Posts:
16,407
Registered:
Dec 26, '03
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 16,245
User ID: 873,664
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Subject:
OMG how can this happen?
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Spookysheep posted:
At least GC is admitting that blizzard is not trying, at all, to keep veteran players but instead they are trying to make money by constantly getting new players (who don't know any better yet).
I guess they figure they can make more money by scamming new players into subscriptions for the biggest bait and switch game of all time, instead of actually designing a game that their once loyal players enjoyed for years.
Strange, I never regretted my time in WoW. Did you? What a shame for you then 
-----signature-----
4 scor & 7yrs ago: nu nation, all men =! Now civil war  But! Not die in vain. Gr8 task b4 us: Gvt of-by4-ppl not perish frm earth! -- Honest_Abe << Euro Player (  ) >>
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Spookysheep
Title: Lieker of Cheese
Posts:
21,595
Registered:
Jan 9, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 21,166
User ID: 601,475
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Subject:
OMG how can this happen?
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Pheace posted:
Spookysheep posted:
At least GC is admitting that blizzard is not trying, at all, to keep veteran players but instead they are trying to make money by constantly getting new players (who don't know any better yet).
I guess they figure they can make more money by scamming new players into subscriptions for the biggest bait and switch game of all time, instead of actually designing a game that their once loyal players enjoyed for years.
Strange, I never regretted my time in WoW. Did you? What a shame for you then
Are you one of those people trying to get a date with Dr. Phil? I thought we covered this already.
-----signature-----
I liek cheese
Pirates > Ninjas
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siujoey
Posts:
4,944
Registered:
Dec 26, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,893
User ID: 575,651
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Subject:
OMG how can this happen?
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Spookysheep posted:
I guess they figure they can make more money by scamming new players into subscriptions for the biggest bait and switch game of all time, instead of actually designing a game that their once loyal players enjoyed for years.
OMG! It's an MMO subscriber Ponzi scheme!! Brilliant!
-----signature-----
I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
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Kriegprojekt
Posts:
2,653
Registered:
Apr 12, '10
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 2,591
User ID: 1,390,814
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Subject:
OMG how can this happen?
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siujoey posted:
Spookysheep posted:
I guess they figure they can make more money by scamming new players into subscriptions for the biggest bait and switch game of all time, instead of actually designing a game that their once loyal players enjoyed for years.
OMG! It's an MMO subscriber Ponzi scheme!! Brilliant!
Blizzard told me I was going to get back 30% too...
-----signature-----
http://www.immortal-guild.com/ Deepstrike Server Milkman - Guardian Bard
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_Warlucky_
Posts:
1,255
Registered:
Jul 20, '08
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 1,251
User ID: 1,310,012
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Subject:
OMG how can this happen?
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Game subscriptions are in two categories
1. The people who make it a long term commitment where their alter egos get involved in the game.
2. People who just play for fun and move on when the fun stops to the next new fun thing.
Games always try to keep both but seldom are able to for long. Blizz has done a better job at that the all of them but now time has caught up with them so they decide to focus on the new players who are just looking for some new fun thing. It is just a business decision which may or may not work out for them. Nothing to get all worked up about unless your alter ego feels threatened by them pandering to the new players.
-----signature-----
(none)
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Spookysheep
Title: Lieker of Cheese
Posts:
21,595
Registered:
Jan 9, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 21,166
User ID: 601,475
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Subject:
OMG how can this happen?
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So now its a 3 way with Dr. Phil.
This place is getting creepy.
-----signature-----
I liek cheese
Pirates > Ninjas
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-Peo-
Title: Caveat Lector
Posts:
3,208
Registered:
Feb 2, '05
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 3,155
User ID: 1,024,262
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Subject:
OMG how can this happen?
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TL:DR version.
We change stuff just to change stuff and have no idea what we are doing, the dart board of what ability to change next is getting a lot of use. The only people who have more than 1/2 brain 1/2 ego is the PR department, all of whom are doing their best to find a way to put a positive spin on the travesty we are making this game into...
-----signature-----
SWTOR, Maybe in a year.
Back to WoW for now.
With a lil f2p CoH.
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Ugh_Lancelot
Title: Ooo...bouncy!
Posts:
5,492
Registered:
Jun 17, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 5,446
User ID: 689,383
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Subject:
OMG how can this happen?
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-Peo- posted:
TL:DR version.
We change stuff just to change stuff and have no idea what we are doing, the dart board of what ability to change next is getting a lot of use. The only people who have more than 1/2 brain 1/2 ego is the PR department, all of whom are doing their best to find a way to put a positive spin on the travesty we are making this game into...
More or less what I read in those paragraphs, too. With a little bit of "we know it's a broken mechanic but we really don't have a long-term plan for trying to fix it, sooo....thanks for playing WoW!"
-----signature-----
WoW and DAoC - Too many alts to count
Charter Member - Altaholics Anonymous
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pattongb
Posts:
3,370
Registered:
May 28, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 3,305
User ID: 683,411
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Subject:
OMG how can this happen?
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Spookysheep posted:
At least GC is admitting that blizzard is not trying, at all, to keep veteran players but instead they are trying to make money by constantly getting new players (who don't know any better yet).
I guess they figure they can make more money by scamming new players into subscriptions for the biggest bait and switch game of all time, instead of actually designing a game that their once loyal players enjoyed for years.
^^ Truest WoW post of all time. 
-----signature-----
Rift - Having fun
WoW - Just cant do it anymore...
"WAR and AoC also showed that a strong, nerd-attracting IP can only get you so far
before the cognitive dissonance starts to wear off" - bOrngamer
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Auenwing
Title: straightface
Posts:
8,837
Registered:
Dec 27, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 8,717
User ID: 752,779
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Subject:
OMG how can this happen?
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-Peo- posted:
TL:DR version.
We change stuff just to change stuff and have no idea what we are doing, the dart board of what ability to change next is getting a lot of use. The only people who have more than 1/2 brain 1/2 ego is the PR department, all of whom are doing their best to find a way to put a positive spin on the travesty we are making this game into...
meh, I don't think I'd give the PR department that much credit. A good one would be spinning it much better.
-----signature-----
There are those who play tank classes, and those that tank.
The weapon is only as good as the person wielding it.
Free advice is often worth what you pay for it: nothing.
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kyrv
Title: Lord Logicus
Posts:
14,420
Registered:
Jan 31, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 14,357
User ID: 639,081
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Subject:
OMG how can this happen?
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Ugh_Lancelot posted:
-Peo- posted:
TL:DR version.
We change stuff just to change stuff and have no idea what we are doing, the dart board of what ability to change next is getting a lot of use. The only people who have more than 1/2 brain 1/2 ego is the PR department, all of whom are doing their best to find a way to put a positive spin on the travesty we are making this game into...
More or less what I read in those paragraphs, too. With a little bit of "we know it's a broken mechanic but we really don't have a long-term plan for trying to fix it, sooo....thanks for playing WoW!"
This does read like an admission and also a rhetorical, hmm, exactly what are we doing here?
All games change and classes but many (not all) of the changes seemed very arbitrary, just to change things. Like the healing thing. Some changes I think were good. Good quality of life changes for my warlock and hunter, but some of them...well as GC said, yikes.
-----signature-----
CO, LOTRO, RoM, PWI, CoH
Dragon Age
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