Ugh_Lancelot posted:

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rofl...Boone, I hear preparation H helps with the feeling you're experiencing right about now.

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Boone-Eldar posted:

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http://wow.joystiq.com/2011/04/22/the-lawbringer-lets-read-activision-blizzards-2010-10-k-annua/#continued

Interesting. Guess Cata isn't as big of fail as some here would like everyone to believe.

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The_Korrigan posted:

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The people here who pretend WOW is doomed are the same kind than those who don't understand why Obama got elected when them, their family, their dog and canary bird, and their 3 neighbors all voted McCain. I mean, if all those they know voted McCain, it's obvious that McCain got the majority

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The_Korrigan posted:

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Boone-Eldar posted:

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http://wow.joystiq.com/2011/04/22/the-lawbringer-lets-read-activision-blizzards-2010-10-k-annua/#continued

Interesting. Guess Cata isn't as big of fail as some here would like everyone to believe.

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The people here who pretend WOW is doomed are the same kind than those who don't understand why Obama got elected when them, their family, their dog and canary bird, and their 3 neighbors all voted McCain. I mean, if all those they know voted McCain, it's obvious that McCain got the majority

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The_Korrigan posted:

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3 since my first post, not a bad start for a majority. If we count the other doom sayers posting here, in this thread or others, we may reach what? A dozen? Two dozens? I'm sure you can find a few more friends, animals and why not, dead people (past politicians have been known to make dead people vote) to confirm your doom theory about WoW. Keep them coming.

The majority means having 50% though. 50% of 12M is 6M. The way up is gonna be long.

But yeah, the VN decided WoW is doomed, so it must be true...

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Arcilite_I posted:

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your infatuation with your avatar.

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Arcilite_I posted:

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I don't even want to pick on the guy anymore, there's no sport in it. I just feel bad for him.

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Quazimortal posted:

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The irony just got a lot thicker in here.

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GutterSludge posted:

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Hate Blizzard?

Hate WOW?

Boone, I would challenge you to find one post where anyone has stated such, but we all know you won't find one, so I will save you that embarrassment...


You have embarrassed yourself enough already as it is.

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Boone-Eldar posted:

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GutterSludge posted:

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Hate Blizzard?

Hate WOW?

Boone, I would challenge you to find one post where anyone has stated such, but we all know you won't find one, so I will save you that embarrassment...


You have embarrassed yourself enough already as it is.

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Do I really need to link any of the hate directed at Ghostcrawler that just about everyone posting in this thread has posted? Or all of the nonstop criticism about the game play? Really?

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Boone-Eldar posted:

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Do I really need to link any of the hate directed at Ghostcrawler that just about everyone posting in this thread has posted? Or all of the nonstop criticism about the game play? Really?

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Boone-Eldar posted:

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And pray tell what do I have to be embarrassed about other than you state I should be?

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Boone-Eldar posted:

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You and the other buffoons that troll this board jump to the conclusion that I didn't know the date the data was taken from, which was incorrect as I did. You (and the others) make assumptions that WoW has lost enough subscriptions to drop under 12 million. Really? Based on what data? You are the same people every year that claim that WoW is losing subscribers and every year it either remains stable or gains subscriptions and then rather than admit you don't know your heads from your asses continue to claim the exact the same thing every single year.

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-Peo- posted:

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Ghostcrawler is not WoW. He just thinks he is, and if you look you will see that the player activity since Dec is down, quite a bit. But of course you won't believe it since you are either:

-Arrogant, the type who will never admit he/she is wrong
-Argumentative and argue out of some obscure need to be at odds with people
-Flat out stupid
-Korrigan

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JaredKorry posted:

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I can see your point. Boone. When all someone does is complain about and criticize something, it does tend to give the impression that they hate it, or at least have a intense dislike of it. But this IS the VN, and these ARE the VN trolls we are referring to. So the normal rules of logic don't apply. They are right, anyone who disagrees with them is wrong, and that's that.

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Boone-Eldar posted:

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LMFAO!

You 6 or 7 same people that hate Blizzard/WoW so much are ridiculous. I know exactly what the date was that the data was from when posting. I don't even play the game anymore, which the same 6 or 7 people posting in this thread already know and the reasons why I don't play anymore.

Do you really think any significant amount of people stopped playing? Would 1 million people be significant enough for you? So it would still be over 11 million. Heavens no, what will Blizzard do!

If you really think that the game has lost more than a million subs in 4 months then all of you are dumber than I thought lol. So damn funny.

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GutterSludge posted:

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What has been repeated over the last month, and in this thread, is that more and more people are quitting, due to lack of fun.

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Boone-Eldar posted:

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You and the other buffoons that troll this board jump to the conclusion that I didn't know the date the data was taken from, which was incorrect as I did. You (and the others) make assumptions that WoW has lost enough subscriptions to drop under 12 million. Really? Based on what data?

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The-Sofa-King posted:

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The game still caters to the casual player

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Quazimortal posted:

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The-Sofa-King posted:

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The game still caters to the casual player

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I don't know what game you are playing but it certainly isn't WoW.

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Quazimortal posted:

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The-Sofa-King posted:

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The game still caters to the casual player

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I don't know what game you are playing but it certainly isn't WoW.

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Quazimortal posted:

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-Peo- posted:

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Ghostcrawler is not WoW. He just thinks he is, and if you look you will see that the player activity since Dec is down, quite a bit. But of course you won't believe it since you are either:

-Arrogant, the type who will never admit he/she is wrong
-Argumentative and argue out of some obscure need to be at odds with people
-Flat out stupid
-Korrigan

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[tos_personal attacks]

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Long_Ranger posted:

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Take one look at a WoW census site and you'll see that the player base has fallen since Cataclysm.

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Turumbar-HG posted:

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Long_Ranger posted:

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Take one look at a WoW census site and you'll see that the player base has fallen since Cataclysm.

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I think the numbers from those sites are about as believable as the numbers that come from Blizzard.

I do believe that the number of people playing is down from what it was at the peak of WotLK, but as to how much the number has shrunk, I have no idea.

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Blisteringballs posted:

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It's clear that the population has declined. It's also obvious why. The only question is, what will Blizzard do about it. Have they given up on the casual and long term players they've lost? Will they fire or shuffle off Ghostcrawler and bring on someone with actual talent?

My guess is Blizzard will keep doing things that are against their own best interests until populations have dropped so much that Activision is forced to step in. Then the real fun will begin. I can't wait for the scandalous stories.

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Turumbar-HG posted:

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Blisteringballs posted:

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It's clear that the population has declined. It's also obvious why. The only question is, what will Blizzard do about it. Have they given up on the casual and long term players they've lost? Will they fire or shuffle off Ghostcrawler and bring on someone with actual talent?

My guess is Blizzard will keep doing things that are against their own best interests until populations have dropped so much that Activision is forced to step in. Then the real fun will begin. I can't wait for the scandalous stories.

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Bolded for emphasis. I don't think it's obvious why. I think there are many reasons that people are leaving, not just one. Laying all the blame on Ghostcrawler (like many are doing) is a bit naive.

I wouldn't be surprised to see that when the next expansion is announced, there's a joint announcement that GC will no longer be the lead designer. Whether or not that has a positive affect on the game remains to be seen.

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Blisteringballs posted:

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Well, without trying to string together a list of specifics, I think most can agree that the end game is generally less favorable to casual players. And, the not-so-casual players that benefited from all of the increased heroic and raid activity during the WotLK.

I realize that GC doesn't work in a vacuum, but he sure does appear to wield a great deal of influence and is the most customer-facing dev on their team right now - so it's understandable why most of the blame is directed his way. In any event, as lead systems designer pretty much all of the ideas that players haven't reacted positively too had to cross his desk at some point.

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The_Korrigan posted:

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Remember that Ghostcrawler also "did" Wrath of the Lich King.
People blame GC like if he was the worse that happened to WoW yet they praise WotLK. Foul logic.

GC is just the scapegoat for disgruntled players, nothing more. I remember another name being used as scapegoat here before GC, with the same "hatred" in the posts from the same posters. Was it Chilton? Or another one? I don't remember exactly.
Scapegoats are a convenient way to avoid admitting that a big part of the problem comes from yourself. You being burned out of a game you played for 6+ years doesn't make that game worse than before... and doesn't make you a bad person either, by the way.

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The_Korrigan posted:

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Remember that Ghostcrawler also "did" Wrath of the Lich King.
People blame GC like if he was the worse that happened to WoW yet they praise WotLK. Foul logic.

GC is just the scapegoat for disgruntled players, nothing more. I remember another name being used as scapegoat here before GC, with the same "hatred" in the posts from the same posters. Was it Chilton? Or another one? I don't remember exactly.
Scapegoats are a convenient way to avoid admitting that a big part of the problem comes from yourself. You being burned out of a game you played for 6+ years doesn't make that game worse than before... and doesn't make you a bad person either, by the way.

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The_Korrigan posted:

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Remember that Ghostcrawler also "did" Wrath of the Lich King.
People blame GC like if he was the worse that happened to WoW yet they praise WotLK. Foul logic.

GC is just the scapegoat for disgruntled players, nothing more. I remember another name being used as scapegoat here before GC, with the same "hatred" in the posts from the same posters. Was it Chilton? Or another one? I don't remember exactly.
Scapegoats are a convenient way to avoid admitting that a big part of the problem comes from yourself. You being burned out of a game you played for 6+ years doesn't make that game worse than before... and doesn't make you a bad person either, by the way.

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Dums posted:

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The_Korrigan posted:

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Remember that Ghostcrawler also "did" Wrath of the Lich King.
People blame GC like if he was the worse that happened to WoW yet they praise WotLK. Foul logic.

GC is just the scapegoat for disgruntled players, nothing more. I remember another name being used as scapegoat here before GC, with the same "hatred" in the posts from the same posters. Was it Chilton? Or another one? I don't remember exactly.
Scapegoats are a convenient way to avoid admitting that a big part of the problem comes from yourself. You being burned out of a game you played for 6+ years doesn't make that game worse than before... and doesn't make you a bad person either, by the way.

---

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The_Korrigan posted:

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Remember that Ghostcrawler also "did" Wrath of the Lich King.
People blame GC like if he was the worse that happened to WoW yet they praise WotLK. Foul logic.

GC is just the scapegoat for disgruntled players, nothing more. I remember another name being used as scapegoat here before GC, with the same "hatred" in the posts from the same posters. Was it Chilton? Or another one? I don't remember exactly.
Scapegoats are a convenient way to avoid admitting that a big part of the problem comes from yourself. You being burned out of a game you played for 6+ years doesn't make that game worse than before... and doesn't make you a bad person either, by the way.

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Arcilite_I posted:

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Dums posted:

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The_Korrigan posted:

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Remember that Ghostcrawler also "did" Wrath of the Lich King.
People blame GC like if he was the worse that happened to WoW yet they praise WotLK. Foul logic.

GC is just the scapegoat for disgruntled players, nothing more. I remember another name being used as scapegoat here before GC, with the same "hatred" in the posts from the same posters. Was it Chilton? Or another one? I don't remember exactly.
Scapegoats are a convenient way to avoid admitting that a big part of the problem comes from yourself. You being burned out of a game you played for 6+ years doesn't make that game worse than before... and doesn't make you a bad person either, by the way.

---

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Glad you said it with a smiley, I was gonna use words

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Technomancer8 posted:

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If the general theme in Wrath actually worked, basically making the game EASIER so that the "casual" (aka "bad player") could do content, then there would have been no reason to change it up in Cata to make it more difficult. Early on Blizz bragged about having 11 million accounts. Then AFTER the China release of Wrath they said they had 12 million accounts. 1 million accounts extra after a release in a densely populated country full of gamers? And now months after release Blizz hasn't posted any numbers over 12 million? Would you like to know why the subscriptions seem to be fluctuating? Would you like to know why there's no real shortage of tanks but nobody wants to tank randoms? Would you like to know why in 4.1 you can trade honor for justice points to buy PvE gear? Because the "wrath baby" players that want god-mode turned back on can't handle anything that resembles a challenge. "GOGOGO PULL FASTER STUPID TANK!!!" is the /macro of the people who are driving away subscribers. In the nightelf starting area, as well as many others, there's a quest mob that kills things for you so it's not so "challenging". But if they make the game harder it'll bring back the players who want a challenge right? Not so long as the game is stull full of wrath babies acting like screeching primates. There is no way to "fix" the game by changing the code. The real issue is with the players. So no matter what they do, what they change, whether GC is exalted as a diety or condemned as the "death of WoW", the players that left won't come back because of the "bad players" still there. Will the "bad players" leave? Not so long as they can generally have the game rewritten around the joke that is PvP there... AFK in BGs, carebear unflagging when people show up to stop them ganking lowbies / questgivers, rogues that can heal, etc etc The game survives on it's reputation, and that reputation is quickly being destroyed.

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Dums posted:

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Arcilite_I posted:

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Dums posted:

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[quote=The_Korrigan]Remember that Ghostcrawler also "did" Wrath of the Lich King.
People blame GC like if he was the worse that happened to WoW yet they praise WotLK. Foul logic.

GC is just the scapegoat for disgruntled players, nothing more. I remember another name being used as scapegoat here before GC, with the same "hatred" in the posts from the same posters. Was it Chilton? Or another one? I don't remember exactly.
Scapegoats are a convenient way to avoid admitting that a big part of the problem comes from yourself. You being burned out of a game you played for 6+ years doesn't make that game worse than before... and doesn't make you a bad person either, by the way.

---

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Glad you said it with a smiley, I was gonna use words

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Technomancer8 posted:

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If the general theme in Wrath actually worked, basically making the game EASIER so that the "casual" (aka "bad player") could do content, then there would have been no reason to change it up in Cata to make it more difficult. Early on Blizz bragged about having 11 million accounts. Then AFTER the China release of Wrath they said they had 12 million accounts. 1 million accounts extra after a release in a densely populated country full of gamers? And now months after release Blizz hasn't posted any numbers over 12 million? Would you like to know why the subscriptions seem to be fluctuating? Would you like to know why there's no real shortage of tanks but nobody wants to tank randoms? Would you like to know why in 4.1 you can trade honor for justice points to buy PvE gear? Because the "wrath baby" players that want god-mode turned back on can't handle anything that resembles a challenge. "GOGOGO PULL FASTER STUPID TANK!!!" is the /macro of the people who are driving away subscribers. In the nightelf starting area, as well as many others, there's a quest mob that kills things for you so it's not so "challenging". But if they make the game harder it'll bring back the players who want a challenge right? Not so long as the game is stull full of wrath babies acting like screeching primates. There is no way to "fix" the game by changing the code. The real issue is with the players. So no matter what they do, what they change, whether GC is exalted as a diety or condemned as the "death of WoW", the players that left won't come back because of the "bad players" still there. Will the "bad players" leave? Not so long as they can generally have the game rewritten around the joke that is PvP there... AFK in BGs, carebear unflagging when people show up to stop them ganking lowbies / questgivers, rogues that can heal, etc etc The game survives on it's reputation, and that reputation is quickly being destroyed.

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Technomancer8 posted:

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Wall of condecending text

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Arunne posted:

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Technomancer8 posted:

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Wall of condecending text

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I didnt know Ghostcrawler posted here!

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TruthyID posted:

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(paragraph break)

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TruthyID posted:

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Long live Cataclysm and screw the baddies! First round of hotpockets is on me!

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siujoey posted:

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TruthyID posted:

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Long live Cataclysm and screw the baddies! First round of hotpockets is on me!

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Quote of the day!

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Technomancer8 posted:

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If the general theme in Wrath actually worked, basically making the game EASIER so that the "casual" (aka "bad player") could do content, then there would have been no reason to change it up in Cata to make it more difficult. Early on Blizz bragged about having 11 million accounts. Then AFTER the China release of Wrath they said they had 12 million accounts. 1 million accounts extra after a release in a densely populated country full of gamers? And now months after release Blizz hasn't posted any numbers over 12 million? Would you like to know why the subscriptions seem to be fluctuating? Would you like to know why there's no real shortage of tanks but nobody wants to tank randoms? Would you like to know why in 4.1 you can trade honor for justice points to buy PvE gear? Because the "wrath baby" players that want god-mode turned back on can't handle anything that resembles a challenge. "GOGOGO PULL FASTER STUPID TANK!!!" is the /macro of the people who are driving away subscribers. In the nightelf starting area, as well as many others, there's a quest mob that kills things for you so it's not so "challenging". But if they make the game harder it'll bring back the players who want a challenge right? Not so long as the game is stull full of wrath babies acting like screeching primates. There is no way to "fix" the game by changing the code. The real issue is with the players. So no matter what they do, what they change, whether GC is exalted as a diety or condemned as the "death of WoW", the players that left won't come back because of the "bad players" still there. Will the "bad players" leave? Not so long as they can generally have the game rewritten around the joke that is PvP there... AFK in BGs, carebear unflagging when people show up to stop them ganking lowbies / questgivers, rogues that can heal, etc etc The game survives on it's reputation, and that reputation is quickly being destroyed.

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