Author Topic: So I thought you guys were exagerating
PallyDog 
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Subject: So I thought you guys were exagerating
I keep hearing all these nightmare stories about bad tanks at the Cata level. I could not believe anyone could be as stupid as what some of you have described. I now fully admit I was wrong. This last week I have had an Arms Warrior tank, a Prot pally in a mish mash of Spirit, tank and Agility gear, a DW Blood DK, a kitty spec'd druid and just plain bad tanks. It's been very frustating for me. A few have been very good at listening when you try to help out and give them pointers. The blood DK yesterday though...I actually lost my temper and called him a name I particularly hate.

He refused to use CC "because all of his attacks are AE"
He rudely explained that DW is better "because it gives more procs and more defense"
He said I was stupid since I "didn't know how to use assist and target of target" (which I was doing)
He said if the healer dies it's because "the DPS weren't assisting and doing their job"
He kept prosing on about threat issues and how it shouldn't be a problem if the dps "knew what they were doing"

Well unfortunately, I never said a thing about his threat although he kept ranting on the subject (he must have been harassed about it before and is sensitive). I simply asked him to slow down his pulls and let us use CC. I also mentioned it's a good idea to make sure your group is 1) ready and with you, and 2) at full health and mana before pulling, especially on bosses.

So he flipped out on those suggestions and called me a useless dps. Hey, I was MDing to the poor guy, assisting off him and CCing the dumb casters he couldn't be bothered to use Death Grip to pull and I topped the dps charts. Very useless. Our healer finally voted to boot him. He royally ticked off the mage in the group with his opinions about what the DPS should be doing and our ret pally put on his cheesy green tank gear and did better than the DK. ...I wish I had screen shots of the convo.

Oh yes, he also yelled at the whole group for going the wrong way since we chose to go to one boss before another one when it didn't matter what order you did them in. We ignored him and let the ret pally tank.

So I now formally apologize for doubting anyone who says that there are royally stupid tanks out there.

edit: spelling - I'm trying, I relaly am!

 

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The_Korrigan 
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Subject: So I thought you guys were exagerating
I would personally have used the word "retard" I think... or something similar.

I would actually vote kick (and leave the group if it fails) on my DPS chars if ANY tank even mentions the word "defense" in Cataclysm.

 

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Fist_de_Yuma 
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Subject: So I thought you guys were exagerating
I feel very lucky if I can go through an Cat instance with the same tank I started with. I average three. I have seen as many as six. Most of the really had ones are DK's but not all. The short queue is bring out the worse of the worse.

 

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PallyDog 
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Subject: So I thought you guys were exagerating
Aaand it's going to get even worse. They're implementing a new "call to arms" thing int eh dungoen finder wehre the roles that groups are "short" on will get extra rewards for Qing. Mounts, pets, extra points, blah, blah, blah.

 

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Quazimortal 
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Subject: So I thought you guys were exagerating
PallyDog posted:
Aaand it's going to get even worse. They're implementing a new "call to arms" thing int eh dungoen finder wehre the roles that groups are "short" on will get extra rewards for Qing. Mounts, pets, extra points, blah, blah, blah.


Source?

 

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heiromancerdrackus 
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Subject: So I thought you guys were exagerating
Quazimortal posted:
PallyDog posted:
Aaand it's going to get even worse. They're implementing a new "call to arms" thing int eh dungoen finder wehre the roles that groups are "short" on will get extra rewards for Qing. Mounts, pets, extra points, blah, blah, blah.


Source?


front page, mmo champion blue post.

 

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Quazimortal 
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Subject: So I thought you guys were exagerating
heiromancerdrackus posted:
Quazimortal posted:
PallyDog posted:
Aaand it's going to get even worse. They're implementing a new "call to arms" thing int eh dungoen finder wehre the roles that groups are "short" on will get extra rewards for Qing. Mounts, pets, extra points, blah, blah, blah.


Source?


front page, mmo champion blue post.


Thanks. I thought this gem was worth quoting for everyone to see.

"We don't feel the tanking and healing roles have any inherent issues that are causing the representation disparity"

Seriously? laugh

 

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Bremen_Gaheris 
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Subject: So I thought you guys were exagerating
Quazimortal posted:
Thanks. I thought this gem was worth quoting for everyone to see.

"We don't feel the tanking and healing roles have any inherent issues that are causing the representation disparity"

Seriously? laugh



Quaz, that seriously irritates me. They have to be retarded to not see that healing, pre-heroic geared, is borked and not fun. Spamming low cost, low healing spells over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again is not fun. And I bet tanking with healers that can barely scratch your health bar causing you to have to be ultra careful is not that fun either.

It boggles my mind that they ignore the glaring issues with healing/tanking not being as fun.

 

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PallyDog 
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Subject: So I thought you guys were exagerating
Quazimortal posted:
PallyDog posted:
Aaand it's going to get even worse. They're implementing a new "call to arms" thing int eh dungoen finder wehre the roles that groups are "short" on will get extra rewards for Qing. Mounts, pets, extra points, blah, blah, blah.


Source?


Actually got it off the official forums last night.

http://vnboards.ign.com/world_of_warcraft_general_board/b19789/114692416/p1/?3

But here it is for easy reading.

 

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Spookysheep 
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Subject: So I thought you guys were exagerating
I hope the entire system continues to fail until blizzard has to re-design the game and get away from the retarded "holy trinity" style of dungeon running anyway.

Dungeons should not need tanks or healers, just 5 friends getting together to slaughter their way through some caves, dungeons, mazes is WAY more fun that the crappy model we have been force fed since Everquest.

UO (and AC as I recall) did not have a holy trinity model.

If its too hard to redesign, just give us tank NPC's that self heal.

The day everyone can just play DPS, the happier and better the community will be grin

 

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kyrv 
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Subject: So I thought you guys were exagerating
Spookysheep posted:
I hope the entire system continues to fail until blizzard has to re-design the game and get away from the retarded "holy trinity" style of dungeon running anyway.

Dungeons should not need tanks or healers, just 5 friends getting together to slaughter their way through some caves, dungeons, mazes is WAY more fun that the crappy model we have been force fed since Everquest.

UO (and AC as I recall) did not have a holy trinity model.

If its too hard to redesign, just give us tank NPC's that self heal.

The day everyone can just play DPS, the happier and better the community will be grin


I doubt changing it at this point would work. I do love games like CoH and CO where friends can get together (and be any levels too) and go quest or do an instance together. But I don't think WoW is ever going to be like that.

Warhammer originally said everyone was going to be DPS, which would have been interesting. I don't think they would have done it well, given the track record we now have, but maybe someone will try it.

SWTOR (with your npc companions) and GW2 will probably greatly get away from the tank/healer/dps requirements. (Note that holy trinity is warrior/cleric/enchanter, I assume people now mean tank/healer/dps?)

 

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Dums 
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Subject: So I thought you guys were exagerating
Well, at least they made the call to arms thing only work if you finish the dungeon. Now there's some(more) motivation to do well and not get kicked.

 

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-Peo- 
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Subject: So I thought you guys were exagerating
No way they will ever change. GC would have to admit he is wrong and has been for over a year, almost 2. And his own ego would bitch slap him if he even thought of admitting he was wrong.

WoW is nothing more than his ego's playground now.

 

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siujoey 
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Subject: So I thought you guys were exagerating
Spookysheep posted:
I hope the entire system continues to fail until blizzard has to re-design the game and get away from the retarded "holy trinity" style of dungeon running anyway.

Dungeons should not need tanks or healers, just 5 friends getting together to slaughter their way through some caves, dungeons, mazes is WAY more fun that the crappy model we have been force fed since Everquest.

UO (and AC as I recall) did not have a holy trinity model.

If its too hard to redesign, just give us tank NPC's that self heal.

The day everyone can just play DPS, the happier and better the community will be grin



Amen! That is really what I miss most about AC. I could do pretty much whatever I wanted with whoever I wanted. We never had to worry about filling any certain roles. When the game you are describing comes out, I have found my next game.

Until then, I will keep dreaming about an AC3. (And continue trying to forget AC2)


 

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Fist_de_Yuma 
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Subject: So I thought you guys were exagerating
I don't really see Call to Arms having much effect. The reason is the requirement to do the entire thing. At most it will attract the bad tanks who will never make it to the end. When they figure that out they will stop queuing. The fast queue is already causing DPS's to queue as tanks. Adding a reward will not do much more. This is one time I really hope I'm wrong.

The head in the sand, "There is nothing wrong" attutude really ticks me off. It shows they are totally out of touch or cannot add. Of course the simple answer is they know there is a problem but think admiting it will make it worse. They are trying "spin" until they find something that works.

 

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hostagecat 
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Subject: So I thought you guys were exagerating
Actually Call to arms may make the moron tank issue even worst. However it is an attempt to fix the problem. It seems better thought out than most Blizzard solutions. I just think the law of unitended consquences will kick us all in the teeth.

 

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Spookysheep 
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Subject: So I thought you guys were exagerating
hostagecat posted:
Actually Call to arms may make the moron tank issue even worst. However it is an attempt to fix the problem. It seems better thought out than most Blizzard solutions. I just think the law of unitended consquences will kick us all in the teeth.



There is absolutely no doubt this will fill up the system, within the first hour it comes out.

Mouth breather paladins in green spirit gear, and retarded DK's and warriors in green dps gear, will ALL be gearing as tanks.

 

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Ugh_Lancelot 
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Subject: So I thought you guys were exagerating
Spookysheep posted:
If its too hard to redesign, just give us tank NPC's that self heal.
We had these until the tank players [at blizzard] whined and got BM pets and Demonology VWs nerfed.

 

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PallyDog 
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Subject: So I thought you guys were exagerating
Ugh_Lancelot posted:
Spookysheep posted:
If its too hard to redesign, just give us tank NPC's that self heal.
We had these until the tank players [at blizzard] whined and got BM pets and Demonology VWs nerfed.


I thought BM tanking was actually better in Cata? Haven't tried yet but I was looking over teh talents on my tenacity pet and I was pretty impressed at a glance at least. Not that I would expect to be able to tank a heroic so might be moot for this conversation anyway.

 

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Spookysheep 
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Subject: So I thought you guys were exagerating
You can definitely tank regulars with a BM pet/spec. You'd have to be reallllly geared to tank a heroic with a pet though, but there is at least one video out there of it being done.

 

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