These forums have always been about players talking to players. We don't want to foster the expectation that it's going to get a blue response if someone tries hard enough (lol I'm replying to a thread calling for a blue). While GC added a lot to these forums (and I say 'these forums' because he only posted in the North America forums) we think we can reach more players, particularly those in other regions, more directly through the blogs, or concerted Q&A's. Blogs also tend to be a better medium for getting the message out there loud and clear, but does have downsides that it removes the conversation that we know is appreciated quite a bit.

While forum posts do lend themselves to that conversational approach, they actually have a lot of downsides to them from our perspective of attempting to get clear and clean information to the players. They aren't very visible is really the first and maybe biggest problem. You can liken forum posts and the information given in them to some of the displeasure surrounding how hotfixes are communicated. I may reply to a thread 20 times and in my #13 reply I say something really important regarding class balance. Who is going to see that? How quickly will that knowledge actually permeate? Will the message be kept clear? Will my clarification in post #17 that explains what people are misunderstanding in #13 be seen by everyone that read #13? People tend not to read past the first blue post in a thread, or skip around and don't read them all, so if you have a correction/addendum to the first post, or just expound upon a thought, it's generally lost on the majority of readers. Blue trackers can help with this, but we're generally not having to explain that "post #13 wasn't the end of the thought and it's being taken out of context" to people who just go to blue trackers. Forum posts also tend to be fairly quickly written by one of us without much in the way of peer-review, and anything written off-the-cuff like a reply to a thread can tend to be more precarious than a more substantive outlet that has an official process of review and correction before its posted (like the blogs). Much to the dismay of many forum goers I'm sure, there's just an infinitely smaller chance we'll say something stupid or mess up in a fully published blog post.

As with anything we do, we never believe we're perfect. There's always room to improve. The blogs may not be the best outlet but we're continually working to improve upon the content we're delivering, and have some pretty exciting stuff planned. We're also working to make the comment system for the blogs a bit more like the forums so conversation can be held there more easily, as well. Of course you've no doubt see we're running a recurring global Ask the Devs Q&A. It's one way where we're hoping to fill that gap of direct developer interaction that the blogs probably just can't hit. We think the Q&A's are going to be extremely popular and fill a big part of what made GC's interactions on here so useful. And we?re going to continue collecting feedback and posting when appropriate, but we'll also be trying to come up with additional ways to facilitate the communication between the developers and players.

Also GC wanted me to let you know: "It's Dr. not Mr., get it right."

(...) I appreciate everyone's feedback, it's actually been pretty helpful and I think we can incorporate more of what you're looking to get out of the blog into future features.

The blog launching was really a shock to the system for us, and in many ways we're still adapting to it and trying to find out how to best leverage it. But the world keeps turning and the tasks keep renewing themselves. We're not going to stop though, and will hit all of our communication intentions one way or another.

The_Korrigan posted:

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No matter how arrogant a developer can appear to be, it seems that players will always beat him to it... nothing like armchair developers on gaming forum pretending they would do better than professionals

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The_Korrigan posted:

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Oh yes, just like those guys who watch sport on TV, comfortably installed in their couch, working on increasing the diameter of their "beer belly" while pretending they can do better than the professionals on the screen...

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LadyGodiva. posted:

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To be honest, I think some armchair developers *could* do better. There's no MMO school or degree for vision and design... either you get it, or you don't. The Dr. title means nothing.

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PlieBrac posted:

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i smell a fanboi

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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:

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Doesn't mean you don't humbly listen to feedback, even if you end up ignoring it. Getting defensive, it is just bad for business.

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Ugh_Lancelot posted:

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PlieBrac posted:

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i smell a fanboi

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It is a rather pungent and immediately recognizable odor, isn't it?

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The_Korrigan posted:

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Oh yes, just like those guys who watch sport on TV, comfortably installed in their couch, working on increasing the diameter of their "beer belly" while pretending they can do better than the professionals on the screen...

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Isoke posted:

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I guess I'm in a minority. I like GC and wish he still posted regularly on the boards. And I am saying this as someone who is not happy with the current state of the game. But that has nothing to do with whether or not I want to see GC continue to post.

He's arrogant. He's not always right. Gods know I don't always agree with him. But I appreciated his straightforwardness and his willingness to get into detailed discussions with players. He's clearly got really strong development skills and a wealth of experience (EVEN IF we don't like the way he applies them), and he clearly likes talking about development issues. It was a really refreshing change from the watered-down and generic content of most 'official' dev posts.

Ah, well. Back to 'vetted' and bland posts that (to me) seem far more patronizing toward players than GC ever was. Blogs. lol.

Honestly, I don't think the player base is actually willing or able to handle genuine debate over development questions.

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Isoke posted:

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I guess I'm in a minority. I like GC and wish he still posted regularly on the boards. And I am saying this as someone who is not happy with the current state of the game. But that has nothing to do with whether or not I want to see GC continue to post.

He's arrogant. He's not always right. Gods know I don't always agree with him. But I appreciated his straightforwardness and his willingness to get into detailed discussions with players. He's clearly got really strong development skills and a wealth of experience (EVEN IF we don't like the way he applies them), and he clearly likes talking about development issues. It was a really refreshing change from the watered-down and generic content of most 'official' dev posts.

Ah, well. Back to 'vetted' and bland posts that (to me) seem far more patronizing toward players than GC ever was. Blogs. lol.

Honestly, I don't think the player base is actually willing or able to handle genuine debate over development questions.

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Isoke posted:

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Honestly, I don't think the player base is actually willing or able to handle genuine debate over development questions.

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Renegade. posted:

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Lol

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The_Korrigan posted:

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Oh yes, just like those guys who watch sport on TV, comfortably installed in their couch, working on increasing the diameter of their "beer belly" while pretending they can do better than the professionals on the screen...

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Dums posted:

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Besides, in the gaming world, the only difference between the players and the developers (in a creative sense, anyway) is a paycheck.

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Dums posted:

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Besides, in the gaming world, the only difference between the players and the developers (in a creative sense, anyway) is a paycheck.

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Quazimortal posted:

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I get what you are trying to say

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The_Korrigan posted:

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Ugh_Lancelot posted:

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PlieBrac posted:

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i smell a fanboi

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It is a rather pungent and immediately recognizable odor, isn't it?

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It doesn't smell half as bad as assholes though... most of the infestation seems to have moved to Rift forums, but there's some leftovers...

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The_Korrigan posted:

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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:

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Doesn't mean you don't humbly listen to feedback, even if you end up ignoring it. Getting defensive, it is just bad for business.

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Oh, you are right, and Blizzard definitely needs an humility lesson. Sadly, it won't be Trion giving them that either. Let's hope Bioware can, and as I said ages ago already, I still firmly believe it's the only existing company that can finally give Blizzard a run for their money.

There are two things I agree with you guys (those who manage to argue without resorting to childish insults):
1) Team B is definitely not as good as Team A. You can feel it's not the same people in charge, and the quality, while still remaining good (and sadly better than most other MMORPGs), dropped. We get more recycled content too, and less innovation.
2) GC is arrogant. He definitely is. That doesn't stop armchair devs who never touched something as complex as a MMORPG and who pretend they would do better to be ridiculous too.

Anyway, the best way to send Blizzard a message if you think they deserve one is to stop pay to play. I already said it several times, that's the only kind of message that kind of company listens to. Sadly, a small minority canceling accounts won't have a big enough impact on them to teach them humility. So the market definitely needs a game GOOD ENOUGH to significantly dent WoW's player population. Sadly, such a game is not that easy to make, because even with the drop of quality due to Team B, WoW is still miles above any competition. I will be the first to applause the developer who managed to achieve such a feat, though.

Ugh_Lancelot posted:

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PlieBrac posted:

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i smell a fanboi

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It is a rather pungent and immediately recognizable odor, isn't it?

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It doesn't smell half as bad as assholes though... most of the infestation seems to have moved to Rift forums, but there's some leftovers...

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Broken_Kayfabe posted:

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Dums is absolutely correct. Some people around here need to realize that just because someone doesn't make a career out of something doesn't mean they don't understand it or couldn't do it.

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seanh_race posted:

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but peopole who aren't actually developers (of big projects with hundreds of people) don't really understand all of the things that are going on.

as i sit here, watching a 1.5 hour build plod along, hoping it will succeed so i can start the 45 minute check-in test process, while i'm integrating code changes dozens of people have made to the "live" code branch into the "next release" code branch, i have a good understanding of how much effort goes into a seemingly simple change like "make the font for this title smaller". much less a change request like "make hunters better".

people that haven't chosen to work for a big software company probably don't have that knowledge/understanding. not that they COULDN'T understand it, they probably could, but they probably DON'T have that understanding today, and it surely effects their responses in message board posts.

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seanh_race posted:

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Broken_Kayfabe posted:

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Dums is absolutely correct. Some people around here need to realize that just because someone doesn't make a career out of something doesn't mean they don't understand it or couldn't do it.

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but peopole who aren't actually developers (of big projects with hundreds of people) don't really understand all of the things that are going on.

as i sit here, watching a 1.5 hour build plod along, hoping it will succeed so i can start the 45 minute check-in test process, while i'm integrating code changes dozens of people have made to the "live" code branch into the "next release" code branch, i have a good understanding of how much effort goes into a seemingly simple change like "make the font for this title smaller". much less a change request like "make hunters better".

people that haven't chosen to work for a big software company probably don't have that knowledge/understanding. not that they COULDN'T understand it, they probably could, but they probably DON'T have that understanding today, and it surely effects their responses in message board posts.

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The_Korrigan posted:

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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:

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Doesn't mean you don't humbly listen to feedback, even if you end up ignoring it. Getting defensive, it is just bad for business.

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Oh, you are right, and Blizzard definitely needs an humility lesson. Sadly, it won't be Trion giving them that either. Let's hope Bioware can, and as I said ages ago already, I still firmly believe it's the only existing company that can finally give Blizzard a run for their money.

There are two things I agree with you guys (those who manage to argue without resorting to childish insults):
1) Team B is definitely not as good as Team A. You can feel it's not the same people in charge, and the quality, while still remaining good (and sadly better than most other MMORPGs), dropped. We get more recycled content too, and less innovation.
2) GC is arrogant. He definitely is. That doesn't stop armchair devs who never touched something as complex as a MMORPG and who pretend they would do better to be ridiculous too.

Anyway, the best way to send Blizzard a message if you think they deserve one is to stop pay to play. I already said it several times, that's the only kind of message that kind of company listens to. Sadly, a small minority canceling accounts won't have a big enough impact on them to teach them humility. So the market definitely needs a game GOOD ENOUGH to significantly dent WoW's player population. Sadly, such a game is not that easy to make, because even with the drop of quality due to Team B, WoW is still miles above any competition. I will be the first to applause the developer who managed to achieve such a feat, though.

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Broken_Kayfabe posted:

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Dums is absolutely correct. Some people around here need to realize that just because someone doesn't make a career out of something doesn't mean they don't understand it or couldn't do it.

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kyrv posted:

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Broken_Kayfabe posted:

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Dums is absolutely correct. Some people around here need to realize that just because someone doesn't make a career out of something doesn't mean they don't understand it or couldn't do it.

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It doesn't mean they can.

And it's more likely that they can't.

And I don't mean people that make suggestions, I mean people delusional enough to think it's easy to be a lead designer of a big game. That's naivete, ignorance, or maybe just plain hubris. To use smaller words, most of them are wrong and silly.

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-Peo- posted:

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As opposed to the Devs, who are wrong and arrogant.

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Ugh_Lancelot posted:

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Meh. I had a big comment typed up on observations of their forum behavior but the bottom line remains: no matter how much complaining happens in the forums, WoW ain't gonna change until and unless they start seeing drastic declines in numbers. /shrug

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