Author Topic: No Firelands Raid in 4.1 / Justice to Valor Conversion in 4.2
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Subject: No Firelands Raid in 4.1 / Justice to Valor Conversion in 4.2
Bashiok posted:
By now you?ve seen that the redesigned Heroic five-player dungeon versions of Zul'Aman and Zul'Gurub are on the PTR, featuring all-new boss mechanics, updated epic-level loot, and some rare mounts for players to try to tame.

You may be asking, "where's Firelands??

Our goal with each major patch release, and especially with each expansion, is to learn from the past and use that knowledge to improve the game as we move forward. One of our biggest regrets in the pacing of Wrath of the Lich King was the Crusaders' Coliseum. The Trial of the Champion 10- and 25-player raid was released while many raiders were still busy with Ulduar, which meant a premature end to Ulduar raiding -- and a lot of players didn't get a chance to experience all of Ulduar's content during the normal expansion progression.

Having learned that lesson in pacing from Wrath of the Lich King, we don?t feel Cataclysm needs a new raid tier just yet. We?re close, though, and Firelands will be part of patch 4.2, which is expected to hit the PTR very soon after 4.1 goes live.

One of our long-standing development goals has been to release more regular content updates for you to enjoy. Our plan is to package features like raids, dungeons, and daily quest hubs into smaller content updates and release them as soon as possible, rather than wait and release them as large but infrequent updates. Our first significant step in this direction will be Cataclysm patch 4.1, and we hope the rest of our content updates moving forward follow this model.

This new flexible approach to updates allows us to release content like Zul'Aman and Zul'Gurub so that you'll have more challenges to overcome while we make the flames of Sulfuron even fierier and this second showdown with the Firelord even more climactic.

While we know that some raiders feel prepared to smack down the Firelord once again, releasing an epic raid dungeon before its time would, in the words of Ragnaros himself, be "too soon!"

Zarhym posted:
A good amount of development progress had already been made on Firelands by the time we decided it would be better to release it in the following patch. Because of that, a lot of information about what is now considered 4.2 content was already in the game files for the initial 4.1 PTR build. This just reinforces what Bashiok said about 4.2 being scheduled for release on the PTR shortly after 4.1 goes live.

Development for both patches is currently well in progress. happy

(...) Correct. The conversion from Valor to Justice Points, as well as the release of the next Arena season, won't happen until the release of 4.2.


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Voqar 
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Subject: No Firelands Raid in 4.1 / Justice to Valor Conversion in 4.2
It's both amazing and sad that blizzard has left its cash cow in the hands of complete and utter idiots.

 

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Spookysheep 
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Subject: No Firelands Raid in 4.1 / Justice to Valor Conversion in 4.2
Voqar posted:
It's both amazing and sad that blizzard has left its cash cow in the hands of complete and utter idiots.



Nothing else to say really, except.... this ^^^^

 

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heiromancerdrackus 
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Subject: No Firelands Raid in 4.1 / Justice to Valor Conversion in 4.2
I'm sorry but how is this a bad thing? The frequency of updates in this game has always been god awful. Waiting for sub raid content just because of a new raid tier going live is and always has been bad policy. This is one of the first GOOD B-Squad changes I've seen so far (the other being the deathrune change to Frost).

I just don't see how this is bad. Its not like hordes of people are regularly pugging the Cata raids and clearing them in a night. The current tier is nowhere near global farm status. If this tier was a repeat of Naxx 2.0, I might agree entirely that delaying Firelands is a terrible decision. But its not. We'll get a new tier next month but this month we'll simply get more to do.

More content quicker is almost never a bad thing. Its unfortunate that some of you powergamed your way through the tier already but you are in the minority.

 

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st0rmie 
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Subject: No Firelands Raid in 4.1 / Justice to Valor Conversion in 4.2
heiromancerdrackus posted:
More content quicker is almost never a bad thing. Its unfortunate that some of you powergamed your way through the tier already but you are in the minority.

Indeed it's a minority, only 17% of raid guilds have 12/12 cleared so far according to wowprogress.com. It's still a hell of a lot of people (I play on a ghetto server and even we have 11 guilds that are 12/12) but yes, a minority.

But that's now.. and if you dial it back to 9/12, more than 50% of guilds have cleared everything except the three end bosses. Now.

The interview with Bracks that announced this change said that 4.1 is still two months off. How many more guilds will have beaten (not "powergamed", just played and beaten) this content in 2 months time?

And then 4.2 is.. "however long patches take" away from that. How many guilds will have beaten this content by September or whenever it is that 4.2 actually drops?

Sorry, I spend a lot more time on vnboards defending Blizzard against pointless whining than I do whining myself, but I can virtually guarantee you that I'm going to spend a big chunk of this year unsubscribed, if it's going to be that long until we have any new raid content (I got my Defender of a Shattered World title 3 weeks ago).

 

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TruthyID 
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Subject: No Firelands Raid in 4.1 / Justice to Valor Conversion in 4.2
What bothers me more than anything about this announcement is that Blizzard seems to be trying to put this on the playerbase. The blue post is worded in a way that suggests that it's somehow our fault that the next tier of raids isn't coming out.

I wish they'd just admit that it's not even ready for the PTR yet and they need to spend some more time on it.

 

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Spookysheep 
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Subject: No Firelands Raid in 4.1 / Justice to Valor Conversion in 4.2
When even the blizzard fanbois are pissed at blizzard, it is the beginning of the end...

 

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Unstruck 
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Subject: No Firelands Raid in 4.1 / Justice to Valor Conversion in 4.2
I'll believe in the "quicker patches" promise when it's actually delivered. By the time 4.2 comes out, every class would of went through umpteen drastic gameplay changes anyway, so I've just flat out lost interest.

 

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Subject: No Firelands Raid in 4.1 / Justice to Valor Conversion in 4.2
I don't think it is a bad decision to wait, but I can see where others might. Those unhappy should indeed speak with your wallets so that Blizzard may continue "to learn from the past", as they put it.

 

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Elaok 
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Subject: No Firelands Raid in 4.1 / Justice to Valor Conversion in 4.2
plain


Sorry i'd rather them bring it all out instead of just giving us 2 rehashed instances as 5 mans...


I am ready for a new raid this tier honestly hasn't been that fun



edit: and i can see them spinning this as they are doing alot when they are just going to do draw this all out and make us wait probably just as long as we would ...

 

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-Peo- 
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Subject: No Firelands Raid in 4.1 / Justice to Valor Conversion in 4.2
The problem is, that entire paragraph is a lie.

They are not learning anything, they are drawing it out or it isn't finished.

There is no learning, it is all spin, that is all blizzard does these days is throw out spin.

 

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The_Korrigan 
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Subject: No Firelands Raid in 4.1 / Justice to Valor Conversion in 4.2
If they imagine I will still be clearing the same trash in BoT to kill the same bosses in heroic mode in 4+ months until the next tier is released, if that's their plan, then they make a big mistake. And I'm not the only one disgruntled in my guild (and on the forums, as I can see).

 

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GutterSludge 
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Subject: No Firelands Raid in 4.1 / Justice to Valor Conversion in 4.2
It still seems that Blizz is trying to decide what is fun for the playerbase, regardless of what the playerbase says is actually fun.

Open it all up, and let the players decide what raid to run.

 

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Subject: No Firelands Raid in 4.1 / Justice to Valor Conversion in 4.2
The_Korrigan posted:
If they imagine I will still be clearing the same trash in BoT to kill the same bosses in heroic mode in 4+ months until the next tier is released, if that's their plan, then they make a big mistake. And I'm not the only one disgruntled in my guild (and on the forums, as I can see).


Heres the thing though. Why should they delay content that is already done for a raid that is not done? I mean thats the bottom line here. Firelands isn't finished. It will be soon, but why wait for 4.1? Gotta understand that we won't be waiting 4 months from 4.1 to 4.2, not if they plan on improving their expansion cycle as they've been saying. Their leaked roadmap, which is accurate thus far, should indicate as much.

 

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The_Korrigan 
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Subject: No Firelands Raid in 4.1 / Justice to Valor Conversion in 4.2
Hopefully you are right!

 

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Subject: No Firelands Raid in 4.1 / Justice to Valor Conversion in 4.2
heiromancerdrackus posted:
Heres the thing though. Why should they delay content that is already done for a raid that is not done? I mean thats the bottom line here. Firelands isn't finished. It will be soon, but why wait for 4.1? Gotta understand that we won't be waiting 4 months from 4.1 to 4.2, not if they plan on improving their expansion cycle as they've been saying. Their leaked roadmap, which is accurate thus far, should indicate as much.

Oh, no argument here. What I'm miffed about - and, I'm sure, Korrigan too - is the fact that Firelands is 4-6 months away. Not the fact that "4.1 doesn't have a raid". I'm happy for them to release a content patch before the next raid, I'm happy for them to release ten! I just don't think I'll keep my subscription active if there is no new raid content added to the content my guild has already beaten until 4-6 months from now.

 

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Pacorra 
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Subject: No Firelands Raid in 4.1 / Justice to Valor Conversion in 4.2
So Bliz wants to wait for new tiers until the masses have experienced the current tier. The only way for that to happen is to make the content puggable. But their content design and goals make raid pugging unlikely.

Does not compute. They keep looking at all the things that went wrong in WotLK, but ignoring all the things that went right. It's a disaster.

 

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GutterSludge 
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Subject: No Firelands Raid in 4.1 / Justice to Valor Conversion in 4.2
from this thread....

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2190889261


03/04/2011 5:47 PMPosted by Caelwyn
An entire patch and all that is released is two old instances changed into 5 mans.


Zarhym responded..

The point isn't really that we're delaying Firelands so we can release ZA/ZG instead, or because we don't think players are ready for a new raid. Our messaging on the subject directly implies this, and that's our fault.

What we're really saying is that we want more frequent, slightly smaller updates to the game so that content keeps coming. Since Firelands isn't quite ready yet, we've made the decision not to hold back the other 4.1 patch content for it. Instead, we're going to release patch 4.1 with the content that's ready to go so the majority of players have more things to do, while also putting some finishing touches on Firelands so we can ship it out in 4.2 shortly thereafter. We're not arbitrarily holding back Firelands. On the contrary, we don't want to hold back other content updates for Firelands.

The main content features currently planned for 4.1 are:

* Zul'Gurub revamp

* Zul'Aman revamp

* New level-85 Stranglethorn quest line (phased) leading players into the troll dungeons

* New tier of Heroic dungeon gear (epic item level 353) to give players a slightly bigger boost going into raids for the first time

* New & updated flavor items, vanity pets, and mounts

* Guild Challenges (new guild quests)



All of this is in addition to a number of UI improvements, class balance changes, and more. We'll have more information on the patch 4.1 features coming soon. grin

 

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Subject: No Firelands Raid in 4.1 / Justice to Valor Conversion in 4.2
That doesn't sound too bad.
I'm all for smaller but more frequent content additions, even if there's not always a raid in them, as long as it doesn't force end gamers to farm the same content for 6+ months...
So 4.2 still needs to come rather quickly after 4.1.

 

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Subject: No Firelands Raid in 4.1 / Justice to Valor Conversion in 4.2
The clarification is cool. It proves that they are at least listening.

 

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