Ferrydust
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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Honestly, I rage almost every time I log in now.
They are asking too much from us. If it's not one thing it's another.
Broken BG queues which they won't even acknowledge. I am pretty sure they don't even know it's bugged. They think that 'silly us' are complaining about long queue times... but the queues are actually broken.
Bots in bgs. Hey, your system doesn't work. It's a full time job to open a ticket for every BG bot. I TRIED to do it though... but it is TOO much to ask for every BG. 5+ afkers and you have to list their name (you're screwed with funky characters unless you have even MORE time to look them up)their realm. class, faction etc.
Class breaking. STOP IT NOW. I am speaking PVP but PVEers are pissed too. They think it is PVP that is screwing their class. No. We PVPers are up in arms about the disaster they continue to do to classes via hot fixes etc. 2v2 arenas may not matter to some... but it is mostly unplayable atm. But ok, lets ignore 2v2. Their idea of class balance is so far off the mark I am pretty sure they are using a dart board. No, scratch that. I think a dart board would yield better results.
There are too many bugs. Too many unacceptable ones. Ok Holy pallies will no longer heal the same faction in arenas when they use Light of Dawn. Nice. Wait. what!? I wasn't up to speed on that bug. So by healing my teammates I was hurting our team. Nice.
Warlocks drain mana is OP! But let's leave it in for priests via mana burn.
It is obviously a new team and they are having to relearn what the A team already learned. They gut classes via hot fix daily. Oh, your tooltips don't reflect it either. You log in, play and try and figure out why you lost 'skill' since the last time you played.
Seriously. They are asking too much from the loyal players who tried to hang in there.
I doubt I will get much sympathy from this board since most hate PVP anyway. But I need to post my grievances on a board that won't ban me for speaking my mind.
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I, on the other hand, prefer a command-line system 'cause i'm so hardcore
/north /north *You encounter an [Avatar of the god Set]!*
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The_Korrigan
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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Time to vote with the wallet, maybe?
And I agree on the drastic class changes - but the culprit IS PvP, and more specifically, arenas. An example out of many, warrior's charges cooldowns got nerfed. Why? Because of arenas.
As long as PvP stays restricted to BGs with large teams on each side, this kind of details doesn't matter much. But when you do "PvP in a bowl", such nerfs will automatically arrive sooner or later, and ever worse when you make it a damned "eSport".
But arenas "ruining" the game for both "normal" PvPers and for PvEers isn't something new. The moron at Blizzard who introduced that crap into the game should be fired.
I also agree that the amount of hotfixes is ridiculous. This isn't professional, but looks like a noob programmer trying random values hoping that one will work.
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Ferrydust
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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The_Korrigan posted:
Time to vote with the wallet, maybe?
And I agree on the drastic class changes - but the culprit IS PvP, and more specifically, arenas. An example out of many, warrior's charges cooldowns got nerfed. Why? Because of arenas.
As long as PvP stays restricted to BGs with large teams on each side, this kind of details doesn't matter much. But when you do "PvP in a bowl", such nerfs will automatically arrive sooner or later, and ever worse when you make it a damned "eSport".
But arenas "ruining" the game for both "normal" PvPers and for PvEers isn't something new. The moron at Blizzard who introduced that crap into the game should be fired.
I also agree that the amount of hotfixes is ridiculous. This isn't professional, but looks like a noob programmer trying random values hoping that one will work.
No. Warriors were just buffed with no regard to arenas. And no one thought that the charge/intercept nerf should have gone though. PVP or PVE. I haven't seen 1 person support that.
Also, Blizzard was expelled from the e-sport game. They are no longer invited so it ceases to be.
Check out sk gaming as they explained why they dumped Blizzards e-sport. Oh, it isn't official though. There were simply 'issues'.
http://www.sk-gaming.com/content/30957-No_more_WoW_at_MLG
The speculation around the removal of WoW from the MLG PC circuit ended up being false. The truth is the game will NOT be used at the National Finals in Dallas next month because of issues regarding the expansion. As of now WoW remains to be be, alongside SC2, a part of MLG's PC circuit.
With that being said, it is clearly apparent the competitive WoW community is weakening so the cancellation of a WoW tournament at MLG's biggest event of the year does not bode well for WoW going into the future. Whether the game picks up steam again and MLG picks it up for their 2011 season is still a big question mark.
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I, on the other hand, prefer a command-line system 'cause i'm so hardcore
/north /north *You encounter an [Avatar of the god Set]!*
/cast sheild *sheild spell unavailable*
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*[Avatar of Set] beheads [Peasant]*
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Nakal
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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Arena's are something Blizzard should NEVER balance around. It should be a side game and nothing more. Hell balancing around "normal" PVP and PVE is hard enough without throwing another dynamic into the mix.
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GrimTempest
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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i've always said the flaw with any game incorporating pvp and pve is when they try to balance the game around the pvp. it always causes problems on the pve side and its absolutely pointless because there is no such thing as a balanced pvp game. different classes are always going to have an advantage one way or another.
aside from that mistake on blizzards part the broken queues are a huge problem that should have been given priority attention. in fact the entire BG situation should be given more attention because its in blizzards best interest to find a way to mix players into bg's faster and find other ways to improve the pvp game that don't include class changes. if they want to improve pvp that would be more effective than trying to balance something that can't be balanced. someone at blizzard is obviously not coherent of the fact that Rift is going to be snatching away their customers and that all of these changes in the name of balance lately are happening at just the right time to frustrate their customers at the same time Rift is about to release. not terribly smart imo.
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The_Korrigan
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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Ferrydust posted:
No. Warriors were just buffed with no regard to arenas. And no one thought that the charge/intercept nerf should have gone though. PVP or PVE. I haven't seen 1 person support that.
The charge/intercept nerf has still be done because of PvP, and more specifically arenas.
Ferrydust posted:
Also, Blizzard was expelled from the e-sport game.
No matter if this is true or rumor, fact is the "eSport arenas" are still part of the game. And classes are still getting nerfed and balanced for "PvP in a bowl".
As Nakal said, things like arenas are stuff a MMORPG should NEVER be balanced around. The game should be balanced for "normal" PvP, not duels with a limited amount of participants where some classes will automatically be OP and which can NOT be balanced anyway.
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Ferrydust
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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Nakal posted:
Arena's are something Blizzard should NEVER balance around. It should be a side game and nothing more. Hell balancing around "normal" PVP and PVE is hard enough without throwing another dynamic into the mix.
Why should it only be a side game when so many of us love (loved) it? Oh, because you don't like it?
Please. I am sick to death of PVEers trying to make it PVE vs PVP. I have never put down PVErs for what they like to do. If you are a PVEer I suggest you look at other people and what they like to do in game and stop being a hater because you were ganked or something.
Seriously. Is it the PVPers saying, "Screw PVE they suck! No. It is the PVErs coming down on us. Oh, and you somehow think we support the changes that happen? No. Why the hate for us? We are as mad as you but we don't attack you. Attack Blizzard not us.
edit: Bed time. More arguments when I wake up :P
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I, on the other hand, prefer a command-line system 'cause i'm so hardcore
/north /north *You encounter an [Avatar of the god Set]!*
/cast sheild *sheild spell unavailable*
/csat shield *csat: unknown command*
*[Avatar of Set] beheads [Peasant]*
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Groooovechampion
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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The_Korrigan posted:
But arenas "ruining" the game for both "normal" PvPers and for PvEers isn't something new. The moron at Blizzard who introduced that crap into the game should be TOS_Violation!.
Fixed with my thought for that word ^^.........
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The_Korrigan
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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Thing is, ferry, that you simply cannot even remotely balance a game with 10 different classes (and also a bunch of races with different racials) around 2vs2, 3vs3 or 5vs5 battles where not all classes can be represented. As Nakal said, "normal" PvP balancing (more than 10 vs 10) is already tricky and will never be 100% possible, fights wish 2, 3 or 5 people per side will automatically make class imbalances shine out and automatically create a situation where you will have "FOTM" classes. Nerfs / boost will never fix that but only shift the "FOTM" from the actual "OP" classes to other classes. Result: arenas will never be balanced, and in the meantime, the whole rest of the game, PvE and PvP, suffers from the nerfs and boosts done because of that mini-game.
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Nakal
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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Ferrydust posted:
Nakal posted:
Arena's are something Blizzard should NEVER balance around. It should be a side game and nothing more. Hell balancing around "normal" PVP and PVE is hard enough without throwing another dynamic into the mix.
Why should it only be a side game when so many of us love (loved) it? Oh, because you don't like it? Please. I am sick to death of PVEers trying to make it PVE vs PVP. I have never put down PVErs for what they like to do. If you are a PVEer I suggest you look at other people and what they like to do in game and stop being a hater because you were ganked or something. Seriously. Is it the PVPers saying, "Screw PVE they suck! No. It is the PVErs coming down on us. Oh, and you somehow think we support the changes that happen? No. Why the hate for us? We are as mad as you but we don't attack you. Attack Blizzard not us. edit: Bed time. More arguments when I wake up :P
What I don't like are my characters getting a hit with a huge swing of the nerf bat because someone got owned in the arena. When aspects of the game, like threat generation for tanks, and heal spell dynamics etc are fundamentally changed because of or perceived of arena combat, it throws the rest of the game OFF balance. Just Because that Arms Warrior/ Resto Druid combo rolled over your 2 rogue team does not mean blizzard should buff rogues and nerf warriors and druids (but in the past, they have.. lifebloom nerfs are perceived as a direct result of arena combat)
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regulator_cracka
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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Ferrydust posted:
Honestly, I rage almost every time I log in now.
They are asking too much from us. If it's not one thing it's another.
Wow, has it ever crossed your mind you may be taking a video game too serious?
Perhaps try a real 3d hobby.
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Kriegprojekt
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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If you are angry/raging over an online game, you need to stop playing. Period. No game is worth getting upset/angry/sick for.
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GrimTempest
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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part of the point of game forums is to discuss problems with the game. i think you guys are reading too much into it.
something you enjoy gets screwed up your going to want to voice your opinion on it. i think he has some valid complaints, blizzard really has dropped the ball recently.
as to the pvp vs pve debate the players shouldn't be blaming each other. this isn't pvp people vs pve people. its both sides suffering because its being badly handled. blizzard tries too hard to make everything in pvp, and even in pve for that matter, dead even between classes. its a impossible goal and constant fiddling with it does nothing but irritate players.
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The_Korrigan
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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It's definitely not a PvE vs PvP war, but rather an arenas against everything else one. Read my previous post about the futility of trying to balance a MMORPG with 10 classes (and 30 different specs) based on 2, 3 or 5 man "duels".
Kriegprojekt posted:
If you are angry/raging over an online game, you need to stop playing. Period. No game is worth getting upset/angry/sick for.
This is of course true. Take a few months break, at least. Totally agreed here. Not to mention it sends Blizzard the only message they will ever understand.
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TorgasPrim
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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So why doesn't Blizz just make skills and spells change when in PvP arenas and BGs like in Guild Wars?
In Guild Wars for PvE, skills have one set of attributes, and when zoning into PvP areas they change to suite their balance requirements............
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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When even the fanboys are whining, you know the game is in trouble 
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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Fact of the matter is that we're still playing beta. There are major changes going on with both class and encounter mechanics. They may have stretched themselves too thin in trying to balance for pvp, 10s and 25s equally.
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The_Korrigan
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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One thing is sure though - no matter how many people complain here, the game is VERY far from needing to "be saved", and won't be during many years to come. WoW will definitely still be running years after most if not all here, including possibly myself, stopped playing it.
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GrimTempest
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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true...but he said saved for "me". he meant for himself. i don't think any of us think WoW is going to drop off the mmo map even if things get worse than they are. it has too much momentum built up and even small games like AC are still managing fine.
i do think that WoW is going to lose some significant numbers to rift though, at least for a while. whether they stay gone all depends on how rifts end game pans out.
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Conceited
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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Agree with most of this.
They seem to be pretty lazy with their fixing of a lot of issues.
PvP has been doing downhill since they introduced Arenas and arena gear though, imo.
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-Mithan-
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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Cancel this week and give Rift a shot. Worst case, Rift should keep you entertained for a few months which is worth the cost.
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I survived to the end and got nothing out of it, but hey.
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GrimTempest
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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-Mithan- posted:
Cancel this week and give Rift a shot. Worst case, Rift should keep you entertained for a few months which is worth the cost.
this is pretty much my own conclusion. i barely log into wow right now because A. tired of things changing so much so fast(with most of them being silly or unneeded) and B. its just gotten a bit stale in general after years of playing it.
i'm not really that into rift but its different and it seems pretty stable and well thought out so worst case it keeps me occupied for a couple months. i'm a little irritated by how many similarities it bears to wow but at least the rift assaults and other stuff is new even if alot of interface and character abilities seem recycled. and who knows, maybe after playing it for a couple months i decide i really like it and i keep playing it. if not i can always come back to WoW after the devs have gotten this splurge of fix this, nerf that, out of their systems.
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Zero_Washu
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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TorgasPrim posted:
So why doesn't Blizz just make skills and spells change when in PvP arenas and BGs like in Guild Wars?
In Guild Wars for PvE, skills have one set of attributes, and when zoning into PvP areas they change to suite their balance requirements............
So many have asked this since day one that the developers were obviously never interested in that solution.
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GrimTempest
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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i'm sure they think its too much work to implement.
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-Mithan-
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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Rift is pretty good. I wont get into the (RETARDED) debate of what is better as that is based on personal opinion, but Rift is NEW and that means DIFFERENT and that means FUN (for a while).
Worth a shot for those bored or P/O'ed with WoW IMO.
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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GrimTempest posted:
i'm sure they think its too much work to implement.
Compared to the never-ending battle to balance classes through hotfixes? Seems pretty idiotic to me.
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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Quazimortal posted:
GrimTempest posted:
i'm sure they think its too much work to implement.
Compared to the never-ending battle to balance classes through hotfixes? Seems pretty idiotic to me.
Cause adjusting base values and multipliers sounds way harder than completely redesigning the way every talent in the game works in pvp right?
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Quazimortal
Title: The One and Only
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Subject:
I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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TruthyID posted:
Quazimortal posted:
GrimTempest posted:
i'm sure they think its too much work to implement.
Compared to the never-ending battle to balance classes through hotfixes? Seems pretty idiotic to me.
Cause adjusting base values and multipliers sounds way harder than completely redesigning the way every talent in the game works in pvp right?
Oh my bad, I forgot that there would be people who don't have simple reasoning skills reading here. Let me explain it to you so that you might understand since you are having trouble thinking for yourself. The time and effort that it would take to design a system in which you can change an ability's function depending on if you are flagged or not would no where near equal the amount of time they spend constantly balancing the abilities between PvP and PvE.
Now if that was a little too complicated for you let me know and I'll attempt to dumb it down a little more for ya.
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We provide the music, and you provide the silence.†~Leopold Stokowski
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Groooovechampion
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Subject:
I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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Yeah, count me in on splitting PVE/PVP. I really enjoyed GW's take, along with the part where you only have 8 spells of some 100 you could take with you to battle.
ehh, never ending story :/
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DaoC, WoW (retired, inactive); WAR (semi active), EVE (active) "Ye'know, com'on! Giimmeee di Ke$$$HHHHHH!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OADJl-CVDo0
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Jyiiga
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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I am not surprised.
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darren_cameron
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Subject:
I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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The_Korrigan posted:
Time to vote with the wallet, maybe?
He's right, time to let it go. /cancel
I do agree with many of your points, as do most of my guild. None of us get excited about logging in anymore, all but one have canceled, and we've been playing The Rift beta, and are going to give that a shot when it goes live. Try another mmo maybe?
Or heck, just take a break from mmos for a while, there's lots of other great games and genres out there these days.
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NukeMage
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Subject:
I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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The only thing that is stopped me from playing Rift is the fact that my work laptop can barely run WoW at the lowest settings . . . a newer game just isn't happening.
Oh, and I already have to carry three bags and one tool box (about a 100lbs of tools/gear) when I travel for work; A second laptop just isn't happening.
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I need a new hobby . .
Ten level 85's (one of each class) in WoW
Back to try out the Feb patch in AC
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Rezzinu
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Subject:
I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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Zero_Washu posted:
TorgasPrim posted:
So why doesn't Blizz just make skills and spells change when in PvP arenas and BGs like in Guild Wars?
In Guild Wars for PvE, skills have one set of attributes, and when zoning into PvP areas they change to suite their balance requirements............
So many have asked this since day one that the developers were obviously never interested in that solution.
This should have been done when they were adding in the dual spec. One could have been for PvP and one for PvE. Problem solved...
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Ugh_Lancelot
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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The_Korrigan posted:
I also agree that the amount of hotfixes is ridiculous. This isn't professional, but looks like a noob programmer trying random values hoping that one will work.
It does seem like that with the yo-yo some things have been going through.
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Sociop
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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Nakal posted:
Arena's are something Blizzard should NEVER balance around. It should be a side game and nothing more. Hell balancing around "normal" PVP and PVE is hard enough without throwing another dynamic into the mix.
Well they went at it all wrong instead of nerfing PVE for the sake of PVP they should have either disabled certain spells/skills upon entering a BG or arena or auto-replaced them with modified for PVP versions like some other games do.
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Unstruck
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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They design their own problems so they'll all still have jobs trying to fix them until they retire.
It's like the IT dept at my bank rolling out the buggiest banking software. When I asked the dude why they released it when it was so buggy, he jokingly said, "So I can still have a job trying to fix it."
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Broken_Kayfabe
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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This was one place where Sony figured out what Blizzard never did - it's just better to focus on one of PvE or PvP. You can include the other for giggles, but just worry about the mechanics for one and let the other just be a sidegame.
I know for myself I have no real interest in games that try to do both now.
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Thanks, but it's been fun
Five more minutes then I'm done!
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- from "Has anybody seen my corpse". Man Everquest rocked back in the day...
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Bremen_Gaheris
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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Broken_Kayfabe posted:
This was one place where Sony figured out what Blizzard never did - it's just better to focus on one of PvE or PvP. You can include the other for giggles, but just worry about the mechanics for one and let the other just be a sidegame.
I know for myself I have no real interest in games that try to do both now.
I totally agree. This is exactly what I want. I bought Rift and am going to try it out but it is still gonna be alot of the same. They are going to try, unsuccessfully, to cater to both PVP and PVE crowds. And fail.
I can't wait for some developer to come along and offer a PVE only game with side game of PVP but 95% focus on the PVE. I'd buy that for a dollar!
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Groooovechampion
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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Unstruck posted:
They design their own problems so they'll all still have jobs trying to fix them until they retire.
It's like the IT dept at my bank rolling out the buggiest banking software. When I asked the dude why they released it when it was so buggy, he jokingly said, "So I can still have a job trying to fix it."
Judging the bugs I´ve seen throughout the course of WoW, I´d not be surprised if certain bugs were intentionally implemented.
If Blizzard is training Tech interns, hmm.
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DaoC, WoW (retired, inactive); WAR (semi active), EVE (active) "Ye'know, com'on! Giimmeee di Ke$$$HHHHHH!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OADJl-CVDo0
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Cawlin
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Subject:
I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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A) Remove Arenas from the game, let those who will cancel as a result do so.
I realize that's might be viewed as a little harsh, so if you don't like that idea then:
B) Alternatively, remove arenas from the standard game, offer "arenas only" servers with rulesets only for that and classes balanced only for that. Leave class balance alone on the non-arena servers or at least don't factor arenas into class balance on the non-arena servers.
This is not difficult to do folks.
In case my second paragraph isn't clear: it would mean that the arena devs can hotfix and nerf/buff to their hearts' content on the arena servers, only considering their vision of arena balance. On the non-arena servers, classes are nerfed/buffed/balanced around PvE and BG performance ONLY. Yes that would mean that a class like a warrior might be completely different on the non-arena server from the version of it on the arena server. Who cares?
Oh and if e-peening is that important to people, let them have their arena titles be account bound so that when they march their arena class up to Gladiator on the arena server and then log onto their non-arena server characters they can still display their acumen at pillar humping.
Allow good old fashioned BG honor based PvP gear rewards on the non-arena servers, let the arena server people have a standard set of entry level arena gear and let them earn better arena gear through arena points.
Boom! Done. Problem solved. Blizzard should hire me.
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If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips.
Everyone playing WoW knows everything about playing two classes: 1) their own and 2) Hunters
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Ayadread
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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I'll be trying Rift out. The constant bi-polar balancing decisions are a clear indication of B Team level of support.
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Errtuu
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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Kriegprojekt posted:
If you are angry/raging over an online game, you need to stop playing. Period. No game is worth getting upset/angry/sick for.
'
I doubt (hope) it wasn't meant literally. It's just a way to introduce some legitimate gripes.
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Zero_Washu
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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They already have many changes as to how some spells/effects work when in BG/Arena so how hard could it have been to be totally different?
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JaconKin
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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Bremen_Gaheris posted:
Broken_Kayfabe posted:
This was one place where Sony figured out what Blizzard never did - it's just better to focus on one of PvE or PvP. You can include the other for giggles, but just worry about the mechanics for one and let the other just be a sidegame.
I know for myself I have no real interest in games that try to do both now.
I totally agree. This is exactly what I want. I bought Rift and am going to try it out but it is still gonna be alot of the same. They are going to try, unsuccessfully, to cater to both PVP and PVE crowds. And fail.
I can't wait for some developer to come along and offer a PVE only game with side game of PVP but 95% focus on the PVE. I'd buy that for a dollar!
LOTRO is pretty much designed this way with the "PVP" in the game pretty much a little side game/ instanced zone. And you can actually play for free, though rather limited.
Though I'm no PVPer I can sympathize with the OP though and understand your frustration when it comes to the game as well.
The constant changes of classes and skills, one minute you get buffed, the next minute you are nerfed. Can't even call a spec a flavor of the month anymore it's really like flavor of the week.
As I stated in Mithan's post, the player base it seems for the most part is just frustrated. PVPer's and PVEr's with the constant changes to classes, Que times to get into BG's or Dungeons, the switch back over of the game to a more BC like end game instead of creating a more balanced dungeon experience between elements of BC and Wrath. The lack of a third option or a new component so to speak added to the end game for players to do and work towards some goal outside of Dungeon and PVPing.
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IndridCole
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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When patch notes come out and they list the nerf/buffs I pay attention to DRuids primarily. After looking over these changes I do what we should all do: Adjust accordingly. I've never not plyed my druid because I got a nerf bat to my crit or damage..I'm not a pouter that way. My rotation doesn't chaneg in Cat form to hit big. Either the other clases in your group when running dungeons will pick up your slack or you'll group will pull otgether harder as a team to overcome adversity.
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huldu
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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They should have done two different "scales" from the start. One for PvE and one for PvP. An example...
If you're in a battleground/arena then we use the "PvP" scale.
If you're attacking an enemy player we use the "PvP" scale.
If you're attacking a monster and not engaged with a player we use "PvE" scale.
You get the point.
Then they could have done whatever they wanted. They could have made a nifty little option in the menu that let you pick whatever tooltip you wanted to see, ie pvp or pve. If you hold shift while hovering over a tooltip you would see the PvE or PvP scale.
With something like that they could have done whatever they wanted and no PvE nerf would affect PvP and vice verse.
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The_Korrigan
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Subject:
I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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JaconKin posted:
LOTRO is pretty much designed this way with the "PVP" in the game pretty much a little side game/ instanced zone. And you can actually play for free, though rather limited.
... and yet Turbine nerfed some classes because of PvP, and those nerfs affected PvE.
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JaconKin
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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The_Korrigan posted:
JaconKin posted:
LOTRO is pretty much designed this way with the "PVP" in the game pretty much a little side game/ instanced zone. And you can actually play for free, though rather limited.
... and yet Turbine nerfed some classes because of PvP, and those nerfs affected PvE.
LOL. Please, don't make it sound like that such matters are the norm over in LOTRO, they might happen once every few months roughly, not the daily, weekly, changes that have been occurring in WOW.
Also if you note, I wasn't responding as to whether or not LOTRO nerfs accordingly due to PVP or PVE imbalances, I was merely stating what the poster said, a game that has 95% PVE content and about 5% PVP. Well LOTRO would fit the bill.
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The_Korrigan
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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You started LOTRO late. I'm playing that game since release. The nerfs are done now, but during the first years, there were tremendous class changes due to PvP, or rather PvMP. Those nerf of course affected PvE badly.
PvP WILL affect PvE in ANY game if the two aren't completely separated.
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WoW: Both accounts canceled for now.
GW2: Future Warrior.
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Broken_Kayfabe
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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And, because PvP is based on the idea that you will win 50% of your fights while PvE is based on the idea you will win 99+%, the two can never really be integrated happily.
The best games of the future won't even try.
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Thanks, but it's been fun
Five more minutes then I'm done!
I've been saying that to myself since
...yesterday.
- from "Has anybody seen my corpse". Man Everquest rocked back in the day...
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-Spacelord-
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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I voted with my wallet, cancelled and deleted.
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JaconKin
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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The_Korrigan posted:
You started LOTRO late. I'm playing that game since release.
PvP WILL affect PvE in ANY game if the two aren't completely separated.
Hmmm. So I started LOTRO late?
Then can you care to explain why each time I create a new character on any server I get a cloak and a ring in my bag automatically. I mean I find that rather odd, I think only founders are supposed to get perks like that.
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The_Korrigan
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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Want me to search your post history where you posted right here that you stopped WoW and went to play LOTRO? And that definitely wasn't in 2007 or even 2008. Care to explain that?
And even if it's true, then it's even worse, because you are just lying. I was there and I have experienced the nerfs first hand. You can tell fairy tales about LOTRO's perfection to others, but not to me. The PvMPers whining like crybabies until some classes got nerfed into oblivion, my Loremaster specially still remembers that time fondly. The result of Turbine's poor balancing and excessive nerfing is that nowadays, Creeps (monsters) are overpowered compared to legit characters.
-----signature-----
SWTOR: 50 Jedi Shadow (Tank), 50 Sith Marauder (Annihilation).
LOTRO: Lifetime account, playing very casually.
WoW: Both accounts canceled for now.
GW2: Future Warrior.
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JaconKin
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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Care to explain that dipstick.
Also care to explain how I know that the nerfing to certain matters began with the first patch when Helegrod was introduced. Skills losing some umph, crafted armor losing points in stats.
Also want to care to explain how I know that it took about 1.5 hours or so to get to the gates of Carn Dum because the pathway to get there was filled up with nothing but elite orcs, goblins and master Elite Trolls. How Nan Gurth started out as nothing but Elite mobs and then they nefed them down to regular mobs. How Eastern Angmar started off with Orcs and Uruks patrolling the area and that the salemenders and leaches that now are there were added right around the time I left the game the first time and went over to WoW.
Also, only founders would know this and figuring I was in the guild Conviction that got the World First Kill on Thorog that they changed his mechanic shortly before the Rift got released. Where before you only had to worry about the the massive wipe debuff he would put on you, the mechanic changed to where he would heal more when he landed up on platform and as such you had to split your party up, with range and a burglar up on that very platform to pull off a Fellowship maneuver. He would also all of sudden now eat up your hope tokens, hence all of a sudden half your party would be consumed with Dread.
Of course my favorite was when fear got nerfed, or was broken as the devs said, and didn't break for the first several months of the game. Then it got fixed and nerf, I rose all sorts of hell on the Isengard forums about that change.
Need I go on, how the Misty Mountains and Trollshaws got expanded at the same time Annuminas and the like got added, at the same time rep got added. How ancient silver used to be Misty Mountains silver and could only be found in the misty mountains. How originally single crafting recipes needed special claws, scales, horns, or other items from a specific rare mob to craft them. Also, Etched Beryl Necklaces couldn't be made at first, unless you got lucky with a delivery of leather with the required trophy in it because the tooth needed to make the necklace came from a warg in Evendim which wasn't released until about a month and half after the game got released.
Go ahead in my post history, you'll notice that I most likely stated that I returned to LOTRO when I left WoW. Likewise, I don't think I once ever stated that LOTRO was the perfect game, I do believe I stated that LOTRO has more options for players of all playing types, in terms of PVE at least, then WoW. WoW right now could certainly use something similar to the Skirmish system that is found in LOTRO that is for certain.
I also don't think I stated in my very first post in this thread when I mentioned LOTRO that I said one way or the other if LOTRO nerfed or not, what I responded to was the post about a Game of 95% PVE vs 5% PVP, and simply said that LOTRO fits this bill. Unless you are saying that Monster Play is about 25% of the gameplay in LOTRO. Honestly, anybody who decides to play an MMORPG and don't expect some nerfing and buffing as a game progresses is delusional, even if there isn't any PVP or PVE in the game to balance around. Yet, needless to say, at least with LOTRO right now, everything is more stable, not this flavor of the week spec process that is happening in WoW right now due to the constant nerfing, buffing, and what ever else they are doing to classes.
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The_Korrigan
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Subject:
I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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Calm down, I don't want to cause you a heart attack.
Your amount of childish pictures is high even by the VN board standards.
So you admit you talked out of your ass about classes not being nerfed because of PvP in LOTRO.
Thanks, that's all I wanted you to say. The rest of your text (and cute pictures) is only bonus.
And if you pretend PvMP is "insignificant" in LOTRO, I guess you should read the official forums of the game a bit more instead of making up things out of thin air.
Oh, and pretending LOTRO has more PVE options than WoW is just ridiculous. Let's count the number of dungeons and raid instances, will you? Because in both games, that's the end game. Can I laugh my ass off at LOTRO? Please? Not a single raid added in almost one and half year now. But yeah, LOTRO has more PVE options than WoW, you heard it here first, by our local LOTRO fanboi Jaconkin.
Seriously, if you want PvE in good amounts, different than WoW, go play Rift, not LOTRO. LOTRO is stagnating and the content is seriously lacking.
Watch your blood pressure.
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SWTOR: 50 Jedi Shadow (Tank), 50 Sith Marauder (Annihilation).
LOTRO: Lifetime account, playing very casually.
WoW: Both accounts canceled for now.
GW2: Future Warrior.
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JaconKin
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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LOL. Seriously, you've become a master at being able to turn words around and make up crap people don't even say. The last few months I've been lurking here, you've become as bad as those you decry on this very board. If you can't beat them join them I guess huh?
Now if you are going to rate PVE content as just raiding and dungeons sure, WoW takes the cake with that, and it becoming obsolete quicker than anybodies business as well. Yet what other options are there Korrigan in the damn game when it comes to WoW especially now after Cata's release? Huh? Fortunately, I don't count PVE content just as raids and dungeon running. Skirmishes in LOTRO count as a PVE content options something that WoW doesn't have and a system similar or different to that needs to be introduced to WoW. That is what I was talking back in May and what I'm still talking about. Then you have the Alternate Leveling system in the Legendary Items which is once more, more PVE content. WoW was supposed to add a AA system, but that got squashed. So what new innovative gameplay mechanics did Cata introduce to enrich the game and give people more options in what it is they can do in game and with their time? Absolutely positively nothing, its just more dungeons and more raids, the same old same old. Of course, Content update 2 is coming out for LOTRO as you know adding 3 new skirmishes, new 3-6 man instances and that new Raid, not to mention the fact that well now all of a sudden every instance in the game can be done at what level your character is currently, breathing new life into obsolete content.
I mean come on Korrigan, be realistic here for a minute, a game with 12 million paid subs vs. a game with what before F2P maybe was lucky if it had 500k subs/people playing the game? Yet you expect a content update it seems every 3 months like WoW? Now it was like that at the start of the game, when they had close to a million or more subs, and it seems possibly updates are going to come more regularly once more what 5 months after F2P?
And please, I'm sure as hell not one to say that LOTRO is perfect or doesn't have its issues. Personally the stuff, gear wise, that comes from skirmishes should be better at times. Yet, you seem to not even find one little issue with WoW it seems or even want to admit that WoW could use some of the features or some other third option for its PVE content. Nope, its just raids and dungeons to you and apparently that is all end game should be.
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Looking Forward to Guild Wars 2 and serving crow.
Currenlty Writing: The Web of Life.
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Ugh_Lancelot
Title: Ooo...bouncy!
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I am not sure this game can be saved for me. It's TOO MUCH to ask from us,
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JaconKin posted:
LOL. Seriously, you've become a master at being able to turn words around and make up crap people don't even say. The last few months I've been lurking here, you've become as bad as those you decry on this very board. If you can't beat them join them I guess huh?
This is nothing new.
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WoW and DAoC - Too many alts to count
Charter Member - Altaholics Anonymous
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