-Myk- posted:

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work and game do not go together

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Broken_Kayfabe posted:

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-Myk- posted:

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work and game do not go together

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And the dumb-it-down, give me everything whether I win or lose, special snowflake generation checks in.

OP is absolutely right. Far too late for that now, though.

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-Myk- posted:

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you're a moron.

I work in real life and have for 24ish years, I play a game to have fun and relax.

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-Myk- posted:

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You're just part of the my pixel is better than you're pixel epeen generation. I bet you think tedious = difficult as well.

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Jyiiga posted:

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Maybe, just maybe.. if it was a little more hardcore people would try. -shrug-

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Jyiiga posted:

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Doing BGs is about the only thing I feel like doing as of late. Problem is (like always) it is heavily populated with people looking for an easy buck. People that want gear but, do not want to work for it.

Maybe, just maybe.. if it was a little more hardcore people would try. -shrug-

Two cents rant of the day!

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Broken_Kayfabe posted:

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-Myk- posted:

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work and game do not go together

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And the dumb-it-down, give me everything whether I win or lose, special snowflake generation checks in.

OP is absolutely right. Far too late for that now, though.

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Jyiiga posted:

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Doing BGs is about the only thing I feel like doing as of late. Problem is (like always) it is heavily populated with people looking for an easy buck. People that want gear but, do not want to work for it.

Maybe, just maybe.. if it was a little more hardcore people would try. -shrug-

Two cents rant of the day!

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Broken_Kayfabe posted:

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Wrong on both counts, you special little snowflake you!



"Games shouldn't take effort" people like Myk are responsible for every bit of dumbing down of every form of entertainment in the entire world. As I've said before, the absolute worst plague of self centered cancers on the mmorpg scene are the over-entitled casuals. They are the worst thing to ever happen to fun games.

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-Myk- posted:

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Playing a game is about having fun and relaxing, not turning into the rat-race that is real life. You get that fun from the play of the game not the shiny pixels.

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Dums posted:

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Old school AV was the most fun I've ever had in pvp since daoc. They ruined it.

As for the guy who blabla's about work and being casual or whatever, well, clearly the only mmo you'll ever succeed in is wow or some mirror image of it. If you took that attitude to any of the older mmo's you'd be that rr2 I would kill inside of a stun. You'd eventually get tired of dying so much because you only had like 30 seconds a day to advance your toon and quit, making the community way better for the rest of us who feel like effort should equal reward, and no effort should equal no reward.

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Dums posted:

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As for the guy who blabla's about work and being casual or whatever, well, clearly the only mmo you'll ever succeed in is wow or some mirror image of it.

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Dums posted:

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If you took that attitude to any of the older mmo's you'd be that rr2 I would kill inside of a stun. You'd eventually get tired of dying so much because you only had like 30 seconds a day to advance your toon and quit, making the community way better for the rest of us who feel like effort should equal reward, and no effort should equal no reward.

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The_Korrigan posted:

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Dums posted:

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As for the guy who blabla's about work and being casual or whatever, well, clearly the only mmo you'll ever succeed in is wow or some mirror image of it.

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I'm gonna forget I played UO and AC1 then...

Dums posted:

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If you took that attitude to any of the older mmo's you'd be that rr2 I would kill inside of a stun. You'd eventually get tired of dying so much because you only had like 30 seconds a day to advance your toon and quit, making the community way better for the rest of us who feel like effort should equal reward, and no effort should equal no reward.

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Hehe that's the "strong guy" attitude of ex DAoC players... they kill undergeared lower realm rank players in a stun spamfest. Man, can I have your autograph? I suppose that "making the community better" also contributed to kill that game when all rr2 people you "stun farmed" without them having a chance to fight back had quit, making the game a ghost town. Congratulations!

Question... do you imply that a guy in a BG, on the losing side, but who fought like a madman till the end, doing his best both for him and for the team, did made no effort? If yes, then I invite you to visit "dictionary.com" and lookup for the real definition of the word "effort". "Effort" doesn't always equal winning. But "trying hard" always involves effort, though, even when you lose.

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-Myk- posted:

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You sure are full of yourself. People like you who think tedious equals fun and difficult have no idea what fun really is.

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Sociop posted:

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That would take care of the AFKers, but server like mine where Ali is out numbered and lose 8 out of 10 we would never get geared as we would constantly be facing a superior geared opponents, we would just end up losing more and more.

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Arcilite_I posted:

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To get back on topic, I agree losing in PvP should give no rewards. Players don't get loot if a boss doesn't die, players shouldn't get anything if they don't win a PvP match/fight.

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The_Korrigan posted:

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The real question is: would they indeed try harder - or would they simply just not play BGs at all, therefore increasing your own queue time to astronomical numbers?

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Ayadread posted:

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Arcilite_I posted:

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To get back on topic, I agree losing in PvP should give no rewards. Players don't get loot if a boss doesn't die, players shouldn't get anything if they don't win a PvP match/fight.

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I'm not going to get into a long, drawn out debate arguing. However, comparing pve encounters to pvp is just down right dumb. One is a scripted encounter which is the same each and every time you do it. The other is based entirely on chance and continuously changes.

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Arcilite_I posted:

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I didn't say they do the same thing every time, I said they become predictable. If you're going to insist on trying to argue with me at least read what I type.

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Broken_Kayfabe posted:

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I find your opposition amusing, considering if Blizzard gave away raid loot for simply attempting a boss, not for killing it, you've be having conniptions.

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Arcilite_I posted:

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The only difference between you and Dums is he goes to enemy territory to slaughter noobs and make them quit, you stand in your safe PvE protected major city being condescending and making people quit.

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Broken_Kayfabe posted:

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The_Korrigan posted:

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The real question is: would they indeed try harder - or would they simply just not play BGs at all, therefore increasing your own queue time to astronomical numbers?

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With all servers linked there will always be more than the criticial mass needed to keep BGs going, especially if they were IMPROVED by removing the afk leeches and bots by reducing their ability to get rewarded because their team always LOSES. Might actually be MORE people in the random BGs.

But no. Blizzard is too stupid to figure out how to fix things without upsetting their special snowflake overentitled casuals who are used to being rewarded for participation, not for success, much like kindergarteners (and Myk).

I find your opposition amusing, considering if Blizzard gave away raid loot for simply attempting a boss, not for killing it, you've be having conniptions.

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Ayadread posted:

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Arcilite_I posted:

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I didn't say they do the same thing every time, I said they become predictable. If you're going to insist on trying to argue with me at least read what I type.

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Please enlighten me as to how they are predictable. Since, you know, you aren't fighting the same people but an entirely different group from bg to bg. I'll try to better read what you write when you actually stop to think before you write.

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Arcilite_I posted:

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The only difference between a player and a mob is the number of abilities available for them to utilize at any given time. Once you know these abilities and are able to mentally track their cooldowns, players become as predictable as mobs 99% of the time.

Try not to be so obtuse in your thinking, not everything is as you perceive it.

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Dums posted:

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Old school AV was the most fun I've ever had in pvp since daoc. They ruined it.

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Cawlin posted:

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If there were no reward for losing in PvP, the number of people participating would be DRAMATICALLY reduced.

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siujoey posted:

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Ironic that the ones calling people "special snowflakes" are the ones that are getting bent out of shape because others can obtain the same gear by (gasp!) not putting in as much time. So you will be a little *less* special snowflake? Awwwww. Maybe we can somehow fit your character with an actual E-peen representation that can grow with every kill. That way, everyone can see how much better you are than everyone else with just a glance. Problem solved!

If a casual plays 25% as much as a "hardcore" player, he will earn 25% as much honor (all else being equal). He will take 4 times longer to get the gear. I don't understand the problem here. You're being rewarded proportionally for the time you put in.

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The_Korrigan posted:

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Thing is, gear in PvP also affects OTHER people - those you kill or who get killed without a chance to fight back because they are undergeared. That's why even the losing side must get paid for the effort they made fighting.

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Broken_Kayfabe posted:

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Cawlin posted:

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If there were no reward for losing in PvP, the number of people participating would be DRAMATICALLY reduced.

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Reduced by the number of people who just want to easymode their way to epics?

And this is a drawback... how?

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Arcilite_I posted:

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[quote=Arcilite_I]The only difference between a player and a mob is the number of abilities available for them to utilize at any given time. Once you know these abilities and are able to mentally track their cooldowns, players become as predictable as mobs 99% of the time.

Try not to be so obtuse in your thinking, not everything is as you perceive it.

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Foojo posted:

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So if people get gear from losing, why does it matter to you?

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Ayadread posted:

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Arcilite_I posted:

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[quote=Arcilite_I]The only difference between a player and a mob is the number of abilities available for them to utilize at any given time. Once you know these abilities and are able to mentally track their cooldowns, players become as predictable as mobs 99% of the time.

Try not to be so obtuse in your thinking, not everything is as you perceive it.

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Maybe you should brush up on some reading and learn what predictable means. It means knowing what they're going to do, or PREDICT , before they do it, not being able to track the cooldown after it's already been used. I'm beginning to understand why you never figured out how to beat a frost mage with a feral.

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Ayadread posted:

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BG's are fine the way they are. If people want actual competition there are both arenas and rated bg's. Both of which provide a greater reward assuming you can raise your ratings. Higher ratings = higher point cap per week.

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Jyiiga posted:

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Doing BGs is about the only thing I feel like doing as of late. Problem is (like always) it is heavily populated with people looking for an easy buck. People that want gear but, do not want to work for it.

Maybe, just maybe.. if it was a little more hardcore people would try. -shrug-

Two cents rant of the day!

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darren_cameron posted:

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Even before that, my first hope would've been for Blizz to BAN or CANCEL the accounts of chronic afkers and the bots/autofollows. Sure every once in a while, ppl get DCd, emergency phone call etc, but I'm talking about accounts/players that time and time again got reported for afk'ing. F*cking cancel their accounts, or at a minimum ban them from any and all PvP. Blizz has gotten so greedy though, they'll never do it.

These days, a good 25-30% of the players in the BGs I've been in are either afk or otherwise botting or using that f-ing auto-follow script (where they just target random nearby players and auto-follow).

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Sociop posted:

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That would take care of the AFKers, but server like mine where Ali is out numbered and lose 8 out of 10 we would never get geared as we would constantly be facing a superior geared opponents, we would just end up losing more and more.

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Diskent posted:

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Whats amazing about this thread is that it is the same thread that has been written about PvP in WoW since PvP started in WoW.

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sarnsereg posted:

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Then you run into the problem of 20 hour queue times to play with the 15 people that actually enjoy this games pvp. Not only would people stop doing it just because there are no rewards once you were behind you would be behind forever due to the gear scaling and those people would stop playing too because they could never catch up.

It's obvious that people that want easy and free gear is a problem with wow but no rewards doesn't solve anything and only makes them worse. would you rather have a 2 minute queue and get something for losing or a 2 hour queue just to lose and get nothing?

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Broken_Kayfabe posted:

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siujoey posted:

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Ironic that the ones calling people "special snowflakes" are the ones that are getting bent out of shape because others can obtain the same gear by (gasp!) not putting in as much time. So you will be a little *less* special snowflake? Awwwww. Maybe we can somehow fit your character with an actual E-peen representation that can grow with every kill. That way, everyone can see how much better you are than everyone else with just a glance. Problem solved!

If a casual plays 25% as much as a "hardcore" player, he will earn 25% as much honor (all else being equal). He will take 4 times longer to get the gear. I don't understand the problem here. You're being rewarded proportionally for the time you put in.

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Someday you'll learn that there might be other considerations to whether or not you deserve to be rewarded besides how much time you put into it.

Or maybe you won't.

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st0rmie posted:

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Diskent posted:

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Whats amazing about this thread is that it is the same thread that has been written about PvP in WoW since PvP started in WoW.

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Well, not really. When PvP first started in WoW, nobody got rewards, neither winners nor losers.

Then we got the original honour system, where to get a worthwhile reward, you not only had to win, but keep on winning for many, many hours every week (and never take a week off or else you'd go sliding back down).

It has only been since TBC that the system has been anything like its current form.

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vn_jurojin posted:

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I think the problem here is the difference between challenge and tedious.

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Demorak posted:

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Is 50-75 honor for a loss; when items cost 1200+, really a big deal?

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siujoey posted:

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You're right! If only there was another set of PvP activities where winning would mean something! You know, give you a "rating" of some sort. Then, that rating could go up or down depending on your performance. It would be even cooler if you had to have a certain rating before you could use the highest level PvP gear! Also- I believe you should be able to earn more points with a higher rating than those with a lower rating can.

Ah, but these are all pipe dreams......

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Broken_Kayfabe posted:

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siujoey posted:

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You're right! If only there was another set of PvP activities where winning would mean something! You know, give you a "rating" of some sort. Then, that rating could go up or down depending on your performance. It would be even cooler if you had to have a certain rating before you could use the highest level PvP gear! Also- I believe you should be able to earn more points with a higher rating than those with a lower rating can.

Ah, but these are all pipe dreams......

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So if you want BG PvP in WoW without afkers and botters you need to always have nine or fourteen friends willing to queue with you.

Brilliant solution!

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Malachi256 posted:

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As long as you are not guaranteed to be in a relatively fair match-up, then there has to be a reward just for "sticking it out."

And I've been pvping since vanilla, and my biggest, most consistent complaint is the lack of relatively fair match-ups.

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Broken_Kayfabe posted:

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siujoey posted:

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You're right! If only there was another set of PvP activities where winning would mean something! You know, give you a "rating" of some sort. Then, that rating could go up or down depending on your performance. It would be even cooler if you had to have a certain rating before you could use the highest level PvP gear! Also- I believe you should be able to earn more points with a higher rating than those with a lower rating can.

Ah, but these are all pipe dreams......

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So if you want BG PvP in WoW without afkers and botters you need to always have nine or fourteen friends willing to queue with you.

Brilliant solution!

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Ugh_Lancelot posted:

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Malachi256 posted:

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As long as you are not guaranteed to be in a relatively fair match-up, then there has to be a reward just for "sticking it out."

And I've been pvping since vanilla, and my biggest, most consistent complaint is the lack of relatively fair match-ups.

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Very true. In an unbalanced game, there always has to be fodder for the "pros" to fill out the queues. Hmm...didn't I read somewhere that PVP queues were longer than ever in this expansion, in spite of greater-than-ever aggregation of the PVP playerbase?

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siujoey posted:

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Broken_Kayfabe posted:

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siujoey posted:

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You're right! If only there was another set of PvP activities where winning would mean something! You know, give you a "rating" of some sort. Then, that rating could go up or down depending on your performance. It would be even cooler if you had to have a certain rating before you could use the highest level PvP gear! Also- I believe you should be able to earn more points with a higher rating than those with a lower rating can.

Ah, but these are all pipe dreams......

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So if you want BG PvP in WoW without afkers and botters you need to always have nine or fourteen friends willing to queue with you.

Brilliant solution!

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Why not? Apparently you need to have nine or fourteen friends to raid with.....

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Diskent posted:

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hmmm, I remember rewards for PvP ladders really soon after they opened the BGs, but I really wasn't talking about the Honor system and niether is the OP.

The OP was whining (QQing to use the boards venacular) about how lame his faction is at PvP. I was talking about PvPers have been bitching about the incompitence of their faction's fellow PvPers since the first BG openned. And nothing laid out on this thread has not bee suggested thousands of times on this board alone.

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Bowdi posted:

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Also the free form BG's DAoC had was a zillion times better then all the bg's we have in WoW. Why....why cant we have both, is it that hard to have a center fort/keep to fight over??? without timers, without goals. Just something to focus on as you roam around looking for fights.

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Jyiiga posted:

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Doing BGs is about the only thing I feel like doing as of late. Problem is (like always) it is heavily populated with people looking for an easy buck. People that want gear but, do not want to work for it.

Maybe, just maybe.. if it was a little more hardcore people would try. -shrug-

Two cents rant of the day!

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