_Kewk_
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I need first and ask questions later...
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If I don't do it this way I lose out on OS items that people are just going to sell. If a MS needs on it and loses I will gladly pass it to them with 1 caveat: Don't be a douche! If they say some crap like "Really!?" I wont even consider passing it. If they are more rude than that I will tell them I would have passed it if they weren't such aholes.
#experienceslevelingmypriest
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Ursa_Major
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I need first and ask questions later...
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/shrug
There's no penalty for rolling need on things, especially in a pug. Lesson learned after the first couple instances run - never roll first.
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Ugh_Lancelot
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Pre-emptive douche-baggery is the new black?
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_Kewk_
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I need first and ask questions later...
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Ugh_Lancelot posted:
Pre-emptive douche-baggery is the new black?
No, gay is the new black.
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IndridCole
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The mentality of people who rage over drops in dungeons amuses me. If you lose on a need roll...run the dungeon again. I've pretty much never seen anyone need on an item that they don't need. Then agian my only real competion is a rogue.
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TinMan52
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I need first and ask questions later...
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IndridCole posted:
The mentality of people who rage over drops in dungeons amuses me. If you lose on a need roll...run the dungeon again. I've pretty much never seen anyone need on an item that they don't need. Then agian my only real competion is a rogue.
Uh, WoW is serious business? or is that too 2004? I've seen people roll on all sorts of things they didn't need. PuG hunters had a well deserved reputation too.
In any event, it's the same problem since day 1 and it sucked even more when you might have to run a dungeon 50+ times to get your blue set piece. No accountability leads to awful group social dynamics.
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Deionnara
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People still group for heroics outside guild?
Interesting concept.
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Flesh_Wound
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It's pretty much been common practice since LFD inception. With no personal responsibility to be civil to your fellow server goes, people more prone to asshattery rolled need on everything. Over time, those less prone to asshattery were forced to copy this behavior just to get loot they actually needed, much less loot they might want for OS.
I think people who worry about MS/OS in 5 mans these days are mostly just stubbornly holding on to the old days or simply haven't pugged much. It's pug eat pug out there.
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The_Korrigan
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Outside of guild groups, the rule is simple. Roll need if you need, be it for main or offspec. Then, if you won an offspec item and a guy who needs it for main spec asks NICELY, you can still trade it. The chances that a guy asks nicely are close to zero anyway, so... *shrug*.
And those who think it's the dungeon finder which introduced this behavior have long term memory problems. PuGs have always been full of "douchebags", and if you don't want to be at the bottom of the food chain, need what you need. Isn't that what the need button means, anyway? Just thank Blizzard that they made it so that people can no longer "need" on things they can't equip at all or on armor that isn't meant for their class... remember paladins ninjaing healer cloth gear?
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Quazimortal
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I need first and ask questions later...
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The_Korrigan posted:
remember paladins ninjaing healer cloth gear?
I could understand mail, but cloth? 
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IndridCole
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Quazimortal posted:
The_Korrigan posted:
remember paladins ninjaing healer cloth gear?
I could understand mail, but cloth?
Yup for the int+ and spri+.
However to change this Blizard instituted a new system where if you wear a complete set of your max armor type (cloth, leather, mail, etc.) you get a 'set bonus'.
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Quazimortal
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I need first and ask questions later...
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IndridCole posted:
Quazimortal posted:
The_Korrigan posted:
remember paladins ninjaing healer cloth gear?
I could understand mail, but cloth?
Yup for the int+ and spri+.
Spirit wasn't working for paladins in-combat regen in Wrath. Did it used to work for them before?
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Voqar
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I'm glad I mostly run with guildies. So much greed and justification for greed.
Why need for OS if you're willing to pass, when you can just hold off and see if anybody else rolls need first before you roll...or when you could take 5 seconds (or less) to type, if nobody else needs I'm grabbing for OS?
A smidge of common sense or communication can spare a lot of grief.
I do expect most WoW players to be greedy and/or stupid since that's WoW-reality, by expecting the worst I can then instead be shocked when idiocy does NOT occur, rather than rage when it all too frequently does occur.
Amazing how working together with others (ie, join a guild or develop friends) in a massively multiplayer game makes for less idiocy.
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Cawlin
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@ Korrigan and Kewk
If *I* were in a group with either of you and you rolled OS against me rolling MS for an item, I would know, because of this thread to ask "nicely" about it.
However, I honestly think you guys are expecting far too much when you expect someone to ask nicely for the item.
Consider as an example the case of a pure DPS class with no other option for an off spec item, if they roll need on the item is it not assumed they would actually need it for main spec?
Additionally, given the prevailing attitudes in WoW, I can understand why you'd hit need for OS pieces and let the chips fall where they may pending a (polite) request from someone who rolled for it as MS, however, you have to remember that the same rule by which you assume (correctly) that few people would have the manners to ask "politely" for an item they were rolling for MS applies to those who would roll "need" for OS items and never give a rat's ass whether someone needed it for MS.
In other words, if most people douchey enough to be crappy about it and say something like "Really?", most people are also douchey enough to not care if someone else needed it for main spec.
For this reason, I usually try to roll "need" on an item for off spec only after either a) posting to party chat "Anyone mind if I need that?" (when it's obvious I'm rolling as OS for it) or b) if nobody has rolled "need", and I do need it for OS, I will roll "need" on it without asking.
The way you two talk about it, you've created a self fulfilling prophecy. You're basically committing a passively aggressive act (rolling need on an off spec item regardless of whoever else might need it for main spec), and daring the guy who needs it for main spec to ask you "nicely" for it in return, at which point you will refuse them if you don't like the way they asked you about it. Think about it - it's not exactly a friendly way of acting.
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Ugh_Lancelot
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Cawlin posted:
The way you two talk about it, you've created a self fulfilling prophecy. You're basically committing a passively aggressive act (rolling need on an off spec item regardless of whoever else might need it for main spec), and daring the guy who needs it for main spec to ask you "nicely" for it in return, at which point you will refuse them if you don't like the way they asked you about it. Think about it - it's not exactly a friendly way of acting.
Careful, now. Someone's head might asplode trying to follow that logic.  What would we call that: logicide?
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-Mythril-
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if you want it for OS... just wait until everyone has rolled. if someone need rolled as a main spec then let it slide. if the all passed or DE then feel free to need. fairly simple really
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PallyDog
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Quazimortal posted:
The_Korrigan posted:
remember paladins ninjaing healer cloth gear?
I could understand mail, but cloth?
Back in vanilla for example, holy pallies would be decked out in anything that had good healing stats, chain, cloth, leather, plate you name it. And they didn't always use shields for off hands either.
And frankly....I gotta say I do understand the OP's philosophy. Although I automatically say in grp "OS" when I need something. And frankly this may also sound like douchebaggery but I've had dpsers roll on tank gear, once they do that I need all their dps gear then offer to trade at the end.
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sarnsereg
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I also roll need now on stuff too. I'm tired of people rolling need when they don't need it anymore. had a tank rolling need on ANYTHING that let him roll need on it. he's like, so what? kick me, i'm a tank i get instant queues.
but the other day i was leveling my mage in LK content and a staff dropped. it had spirit on it but still had like 200 more spellpower that what i was using so i rolled need and had already decided if the healer rolled need i would pass it to them if i won it... of coarse he rolls need and i win it and he blows up in my face going "WTF WHY WOULD YOU ROLL NEED ON THAT?" "THATS A HEALER STAFF" "YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE ROLLED NEED ON IT!!@#!!" ETC. ETC.
i ended up giving him the staff but only after i told him to chill the @#%@!#% down and explained to him that i rolled need because it's 200 more spellpower than what i have and if i roll greed and everyone else rolled disenchant then someone who rolled disenchant woulda won it and i wouldn't have it even when it's a clear upgrade over the item i am currently using.
then i'm sure he felt like a jackass for getting all upset because it made perfect sense that i roll need on something like that.
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loztpassword
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The_Korrigan posted:
And those who think it's the dungeon finder which introduced this behavior have long term memory problems. PuGs have always been full of "douchebags", and if you don't want to be at the bottom of the food chain, need what you need. Isn't that what the need button means, anyway?
That's not even remotely true.
I've ALWAYS been a PUG. Had an account since the beginning of WoW.
LFD introduced cross-server anonymity, which brought with it a complete reduction (to nearly zero) in accountability.
When PUGs consisted of players from your own Realm, your reputation mattered. Were there douchebags? Sure. Did they find it hard to get groups after awhile of being jerks? Yes. I can tell you, they sure as heck didn't find their way back into any of MY groups. I kept a list, before the invent of addons to do it for you. I played all roles, and my reputation was solid because I was more than competent and polite in organizing, running, or simply contributing to groups. I never join guilds, but many players I liked (and who reciprocated) knew my alts (and I theirs) and would often make plenty of repeat groups routinely.
LFD doesn't create any accountability and as such it has devolved the PUG into total anarchy. Players now won't go away from it because even with all the grief, it's still too easy and fast for the lazy ones to try anything else. And that's most players.
But pre-LFD was nothing at all as bad as current-LFD WoW for PUGgers. Not even close.
---edit
And I use Cawlin's approach in groups. If I'm /needin for an OS, I tell the group beforehand, and also that I'm willing to trade to one who /needs for MS. I usually have checked their gear or watched them enough to know if they are truthing or lying.
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