VN Boards Archive

[VN Boards Archive]

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Author

Topic: Um, tank, you mind helping us?

Urk_VN Title: Orderly Randomizer Posts: 8,320 Registered: Oct 30, '02 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 7,922 User ID: 733,088	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	TLDR: Tanks who don't tank in a group because someone else got aggrod are morons. So I was playing my 76 shaman, and got into a Violet Hold group. It was me, an 80 DK tank, a pally healer, a hunter and a mage. Since I've done this dungeon before, I knew what to do, and figured the other players would know as well, and if not, figure it out pretty fast. At first we did okay, but I noticed myself and the hunter kept getting hurt a lot. Eventually he dies, and I try to heal myself, but I get overwhelmed and die as well. The mage dies shortly after too. I ask in group chat "uh tank?" and he replies "He pulls, I don't tank." Normally I would understand that, since a DPS pulling can cause problems. But Violet Hold isn't exactly a long maze we have to run through, it's just one big room. So after all the DPS dies, the mage releases. I could reincarnate, but chose not to, instead waiting for the pally to rez me so as not to waste it unncessarily. The mage comes back, casts cone of cold, and immediately dies again, so I could tell he wasn't holding aggro on multiple mobs very well. The pally had aggro too, but was able to heal himself and throw enough on the DK to keep him alive. Finally I release, run back, and attempt to rez the hunter. I immediately get aggrod by one of the mobs running towards the gate. As I was fighting and trying to keep myself alive, I saw the tank act as if he was going to run towards to help me, but then he backs off and just stands around. Since I was losing a lot of health, I just left the party. The fact that the tank said that and chose to follow that sort of rule ("if I don't pull it, I don't fight it") really ticked me off. If it wasn't for the fact that the mobs keep coming once you start, I would've voted to boot him out for being a crappy tank. I looked at his gear in the armory website, and he's wearing some really crappy stuff, including a helm that has intel/spirit on it. I'm guessing he hasn't run too many instances. -----signature----- (none)
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Spookysheep Title: Lieker of Cheese Posts: 21,595 Registered: Jan 9, '02 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 21,166 User ID: 601,475	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	You mean you experienced a bad group in WoW LFD? Surely you jest. -----signature----- I liek cheese Pirates > Ninjas .....................................
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Fedup23 Posts: 2,271 Registered: Jul 14, '06 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 2,265 User ID: 1,155,204	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	Bad group post #3553778... -----signature----- (none)
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GrimTempest Title: Board Manager Anime Aikousha Posts: 37,523 Registered: Dec 21, '01 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 36,478 User ID: 567,005	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	in this case the tank is a moron. this is violet hold were talking about not a regular dungeon with normal patrols and such. its normal for people to pick the mobs up in violet hold and pull them towards the group. any tank whining about that is an idiot. be glad someone was paying attention to where the damn portals were spawning and pulled the mobs toward you. of course if the person he was bitching about pulling was a hunter the hunter was just as much of a moron for not using misdirect. -----signature----- MyAnimeList - http://myanimelist.net/profile/Grimtempest - Chaotic Neutral - El Psy Congroo
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Urk_VN Title: Orderly Randomizer Posts: 8,320 Registered: Oct 30, '02 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 7,922 User ID: 733,088	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	Yeah, that's pretty much what I was thinking. If we were in a different dungeon, then I could understand the tank doing something like that if the DPS was a bit overzealous and kept pulling things beyond what we could control. But the fact that this was Violet Hold, and we had just started, I don't know why the tank was having such a holier than thou attitude about it. If he was just a bad tank trying to do his job, I could overlook that, since we all have to practice those skills at some point if we're playing the role. But just outright refusing to tank because a mob aggrod someone else first due to the tank not being in front is just plain WTF retarded. I used to be more patient with players in groups. But I think from now on, if I group with anyone like that, I'm going to first try to boot them from the group. If that fails, then I'm ditching the group after making a smart aleck remark to them, such as "well, I'd love to stay, but I'm needed in a competent group!" -----signature----- (none)
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Auenwing Title: straightface Posts: 8,837 Registered: Dec 27, '02 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 8,717 User ID: 752,779	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	Uh, I don't think that was a bad player. I think that was a griefer. -----signature----- There are those who play tank classes, and those that tank. The weapon is only as good as the person wielding it. Free advice is often worth what you pay for it: nothing.
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NukeMage Posts: 3,856 Registered: Apr 7, '02 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 3,821 User ID: 666,051	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	As a rule of thumb, if I see a tank in my random with really crappy gear (as in wearing spirit/int mail or plate or wearing leather/cloth) or using a 2hander and they are NOT a DK, I politely ask the player about it. If I get ignored, I just drop and wait out the debuff. Playing with complete and utter morons/griefers just isn't worth the little bit of loot/xp you might get from a run. -----signature----- I need a new hobby . . Ten level 85's (one of each class) in WoW Back to try out the Feb patch in AC
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IndridCole Posts: 853 Registered: Jan 7, '09 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 853 User ID: 1,343,922	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	Urk_VN posted: TLDR: Tanks who don't tank in a group because someone else got aggrod are morons. So I was playing my 76 shaman, and got into a Violet Hold group. It was me, an 80 DK tank, a pally healer, a hunter and a mage. Since I've done this dungeon before, I knew what to do, and figured the other players would know as well, and if not, figure it out pretty fast. At first we did okay, but I noticed myself and the hunter kept getting hurt a lot. Eventually he dies, and I try to heal myself, but I get overwhelmed and die as well. The mage dies shortly after too. I ask in group chat "uh tank?" and he replies "He pulls, I don't tank." Normally I would understand that, since a DPS pulling can cause problems. But Violet Hold isn't exactly a long maze we have to run through, it's just one big room. So after all the DPS dies, the mage releases. I could reincarnate, but chose not to, instead waiting for the pally to rez me so as not to waste it unncessarily. The mage comes back, casts cone of cold, and immediately dies again, so I could tell he wasn't holding aggro on multiple mobs very well. The pally had aggro too, but was able to heal himself and throw enough on the DK to keep him alive. Finally I release, run back, and attempt to rez the hunter. I immediately get aggrod by one of the mobs running towards the gate. As I was fighting and trying to keep myself alive, I saw the tank act as if he was going to run towards to help me, but then he backs off and just stands around. Since I was losing a lot of health, I just left the party. The fact that the tank said that and chose to follow that sort of rule ("if I don't pull it, I don't fight it") really ticked me off. If it wasn't for the fact that the mobs keep coming once you start, I would've voted to boot him out for being a crappy tank. I looked at his gear in the armory website, and he's wearing some really crappy stuff, including a helm that has intel/spirit on it. I'm guessing he hasn't run too many instances. I've never done that or taken on that mentality. And I'm not about to get into pissing contests with DPS as to whether they are following kill order. Usually the healer is a good indecator as to whether or not the DPS is targeting the corect targets. So I communicate with the healer -----signature----- I found something else by accident. It has become my new passion.
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Thron1 Posts: 7,836 Registered: Sep 29, '01 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 7,733 User ID: 420,920	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	well, while each dungeon has its own peculiarities in general when I tank, or play the healer... I tell everyone at the start, I pull no exceptions unless you are specifically asked to help via kill orders. accidents happen, if you "accidentally" snag agro..I will be there to help, its my job, if you ignore my rules, get yourself out of trouble. When I heal I let people know my focus is the tank and he/she leads, if you think its an all out dps game and you want to top the charts by pulling agro...I will let you die. these simple rules save a lot wipes; and yes I do understand some people only want to race thru an event as fast as possible and if the pace is just 2minutes slower than what they have done in another group they start to whine...feel free to leave. lets face it, when you have the gear all dungeons are really just about following orders; and if you are with a new tank trying to gear up its even more important to "follow the rules". with new tanks that have been used to soloing (which you can tell quickly) they do need to focus more on group agro than dps, politely offer advice and explain why; the explanation part goes a long way to helping them understand. lately tho, I am not seeing many "new" characters...its almost always the "I want to get this done in 5 minutes lets gogogogo" -----signature----- (none)
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Cawlin Posts: 20,754 Registered: Feb 22, '05 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 20,667 User ID: 1,030,445	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	There is one thing I will not tolerate in a dungeon - being pushed through it. I won't tolerate it as DPS, I won't tolerate it as a healer, and I sure as sh*t won't tolerate it as a tank. That said, Violet Hold sort of has a pre-defined rate of pulling. The group should have actually focused on kill orders so that they could kill things expeditiously without stressing healer mana and without causing the tank to go through heroic measures. -----signature----- If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips. Everyone playing WoW knows everything about playing two classes: 1) their own and 2) Hunters
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_Warlucky_ Posts: 1,255 Registered: Jul 20, '08 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 1,251 User ID: 1,310,012	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	The healer also ends up dieing when the tank pull the I don't tank what I don't pull stunt. They should just kick the person who is pulling out of turn. But since it is the internet and everybody latches onto a phrase that they think is cool we are stuck with a poorly thought out solution of "If you pull it you tank it" -----signature----- (none)
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Billarious Title: Consumer of Coffee Posts: 862 Registered: Jul 4, '03 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 822 User ID: 819,331	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	But wait, according to this board, tanks are saints and the rest of the unwashed masses are just lucky to be in their esteemed presence. How dare you question a tank! -----signature----- Rift: Trying a Stormcaller WoW: 85 Mage, 85 Druid, 85 Death Knight, 85 Rogue, 82 Hunter and more. Taking a break DAoC: 50 Champ, 50 Ranger, 44 Friar - retired Others tried: LOTRO, EQ2, Horizons (yikes!), Eve, WAR, Aion
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Conceited Posts: 3,245 Registered: Jan 29, '02 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 3,130 User ID: 636,933	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	I usually let any dps who pull die, or at least try to. If the healer ends up getting aggro I'll try to pull off. But often by then it's a wipe(on heroic) as generally there will be 5 mobs running all over the gd place. Last night we were in Pinnacle. I usually pull into one of the corners and AoE tank there, maybe CC 1 or 2 mobs if have good CC. We were pulling the full group(pull just below Dragon boss, 5 mobs), no CC. I ran into the corner to get ready to pull, and the Mage decides to pull into the middle of the platform. My friend and I just watched in amusement then jumped off the edge to be ported back to entrance The Mage knew he screwed up and apologized. No idea why he pulled though, I'd been pulling whole place up until that point. I generally set a pretty fast pace in heroics. As long as the healer has enough mana to make it through the pull. Most are good enough to not need to drink unless something goes wrong. One of the most annoying things dps can do when I'm tanking is pull before I've set marks for kill order/cc etc. Some guys are just in such a rush. The only time it was even remotely "OK" was when we had a badass Hunter trap/wyvern pulling, basically doing all CC by himself. But he was just doing it on his own, regardless of whether anything was marked or not. I still find that annnoying. -----signature----- Conceited
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PallyDog Title: WoW Vault Staff Teh Pyckles! Posts: 13,429 Registered: Mar 4, '03 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 13,007 User ID: 776,236	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	Urk_VN posted: TLDR: Tanks who don't tank in a group because someone else got aggrod are morons. I'm a moron. If I don't pull it or ask someone to pull it, I don't fight it. Unless it's hitting the healer. And on those rare occasions when someone makes a mistake with tab targetting. If you consistently pull agro, I let you die. The only ones I do my best to keep alive are msyelf and the healer. No Omen = dead dps. There's even a default set up in the game UI that lets you know when you're pulling agro. Moral of the story, watch your threat. Oh yeah, I'm curious though, if you wee in VH, why on earth did you wait for a rez? It's like what, 2 seconds to zone in? If you're serious about being a benefit to your you don't waste the healer's mana and time like that. /shrug Just my two cents. -----signature----- "Pallys are simply self healing rocks." - IndridCole
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Quazimortal Title: The One and Only Posts: 17,806 Registered: Sep 18, '04 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 17,157 User ID: 968,129	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	Tanks that won't go the extra mile to pull off of aggressive DPSers are just plain lazy imo. -----signature----- â€œA painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence. We provide the music, and you provide the silence.â€ ~Leopold Stokowski
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The_Korrigan Title: Scrub Buster Posts: 21,660 Registered: Jul 17, '01 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 21,292 User ID: 255,861	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	Quazimortal posted: Tanks that won't go the extra mile to pull off of aggressive DPSers are just plain lazy imo. DPSers who think they are the king of the jungle and can pull anything without asking if the tank (and healer) are ready can find another tank. When I tank, the healer and me set the pace, not the DPS. Don't like it? Piss off from my group, and find a better one. Good luck. -----signature----- SWTOR: 50 Jedi Shadow (Tank), 50 Sith Marauder (Annihilation). LOTRO: Lifetime account, playing very casually. WoW: Both accounts canceled for now. GW2: Future Warrior.
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chaddlock Posts: 2,655 Registered: May 22, '08 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 2,650 User ID: 1,299,657	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	Billarious posted: But wait, according to this board, tanks are saints and the rest of the unwashed masses are just lucky to be in their esteemed presence. How dare you question a tank! Actually this is everywhere... not just his board. -----signature----- "Shhhhh... do you smell that?" So... Agent skully... funny running into you here
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_Kewk_ Title: Sith Lord Posts: 10,167 Registered: Dec 17, '02 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 9,952 User ID: 749,729	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	The_Korrigan posted: Quazimortal posted: Tanks that won't go the extra mile to pull off of aggressive DPSers are just plain lazy imo. DPSers who think they are the king of the jungle and can pull anything without asking if the tank (and healer) are ready can find another tank. When I tank, the healer and me set the pace, not the DPS. Don't like it? Piss off from my group, and find a better one. Good luck. When I die I waste your time too. -----signature----- (none)
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The_Korrigan Title: Scrub Buster Posts: 21,660 Registered: Jul 17, '01 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 21,292 User ID: 255,861	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	_Kewk_ posted: When I die I waste your time too. When you pull before everybody is ready, and notably the healer and tank, you waste everybody's time, so it's either you stop, or if you persist on subsequent pulls, it's vote kick or I leave the group. I have instant queues for heroics, not to mention I almost always queue with my friend who plays a holy paladin. Your loss, not mine, I have other things to do too if I ever get the dungeon debuff anyway, no big deal. I have yet to leave a dungeon group for that reason btw - vote kick works just fine against idiots of that style, since the other group members also notice his stupid behavior. *you not being "you, kewk", but "you, DPS" in general. -----signature----- SWTOR: 50 Jedi Shadow (Tank), 50 Sith Marauder (Annihilation). LOTRO: Lifetime account, playing very casually. WoW: Both accounts canceled for now. GW2: Future Warrior.
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Cawlin Posts: 20,754 Registered: Feb 22, '05 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 20,667 User ID: 1,030,445	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	Quazimortal posted: Tanks that won't go the extra mile to pull off of aggressive DPSers are just plain lazy imo. DPSers who won't go the extra mile and exercise a bit of intelligence and restraint so they don't pull off of the tank are just plain lazy imo. As a hunter, it takes more restraint to DPS in a controlled efficient manner than it takes to just mash buttons and auto-acquire targets regardless of the kill order/what is being tanked at the moment. It goes both ways. -----signature----- If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips. Everyone playing WoW knows everything about playing two classes: 1) their own and 2) Hunters
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The_Korrigan Title: Scrub Buster Posts: 21,660 Registered: Jul 17, '01 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 21,292 User ID: 255,861	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	Hunters who don't misdirect are just plain lazy imho... -----signature----- SWTOR: 50 Jedi Shadow (Tank), 50 Sith Marauder (Annihilation). LOTRO: Lifetime account, playing very casually. WoW: Both accounts canceled for now. GW2: Future Warrior.
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Voqar Posts: 8,454 Registered: Mar 12, '01 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 8,255 User ID: 73,152	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	[quote]The group should have actually focused on kill orders so that they could kill things expeditiously without stressing healer mana and without causing the tank to go through heroic measures. [/quote] Somewhat unlikely a tank is marking targets in reg VH (or that people leveling and learning are assisting tank), and if you can't hold threat on the multiple weak mobs in those pulls, it's time to delete. [quote] If I don't pull it or ask someone to pull it, I don't fight it. Unless it's hitting the healer. And on those rare occasions when someone makes a mistake with tab targetting. If you consistently pull agro, I let you die. The only ones I do my best to keep alive are msyelf and the healer. No Omen = dead dps. There's even a default set up in the game UI that lets you know when you're pulling agro. Moral of the story, watch your threat.[/quote] I know tanks like this. I don't disagree, but I'm a damn good tank and it takes an act of monumental dps stupidity or me being stunned/incapacitated for me to lose threat that badly. I rarely encounter people that stupid at 85. It's more likely to be while leveling and you have the LOLbackstabber type rogues who wanna open up with ambush on random mobs and say, LOL, watch out I'm high threat (transaltes too, I don't know how to play my class or manage threat). -----signature----- Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that - George Carlin
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Voqar Posts: 8,454 Registered: Mar 12, '01 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 8,255 User ID: 73,152	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	Some people are just bad tanks. I have a former guildie who thinks he's a great tank but he never really knows content, sets up random/inappropriate CC, never notices people have threat, never notices healer getting pounded by a stray he never grabbed. And some are true jerks. This one sounds like a jerk. Kinda hard to top the tanks at 85 who queue up, pull immediately before healer changes spec or anybody is remotely ready, start yelling at the group to DIE repeatedly in various abusive lines of p-chat, then zone out/drop group after everyone else is dead. I've had this happen in pugs and so have guildies. Scumbags play WoW, big news there. -----signature----- Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that - George Carlin
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slythetove Title: Julie's Pool Boy Posts: 18,654 Registered: Nov 7, '01 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 18,423 User ID: 497,588	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	Urk_VN posted: ... he replies "He pulls, I don't tank." Normally I would understand that, since a DPS pulling can cause problems. But Violet Hold isn't exactly a long maze we have to run through, it's just one big room... Right there is where you went wrong. The tank told you, and you in fact recognize the reason, but since you decided "this dungeon doesn't count because XYZ" you are now mad at the guy who wants to follow the rule. It really doesn't matter if you think the tank should tank differently in here because guess what, he's the tank. If you want to be the tank then be the tank. If not let the tank tank the way he wants to or leave. --Sly -----signature----- "a slap in the face" since 1975 85 Priest - 85 Hunter - 85 Mage - 83 Druid 81 Warlock - 80 Paladin - 80 DK 70 Rogue - 70 Warrior
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Arunne Title: The Anonymous Posts: 2,548 Registered: Nov 3, '03 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 2,526 User ID: 852,899	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	Honestly I think Wrath made us all lazy and complacent. I find myself agreeing with all sides of the argument. Anymore I just dont play rather then deal with the crap. -----signature----- "Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be" "I may not agree with what you say, but I respect your right to be punished for it."
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Cawlin Posts: 20,754 Registered: Feb 22, '05 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 20,667 User ID: 1,030,445	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	slythetove posted: Urk_VN posted: ... he replies "He pulls, I don't tank." Normally I would understand that, since a DPS pulling can cause problems. But Violet Hold isn't exactly a long maze we have to run through, it's just one big room... Right there is where you went wrong. The tank told you, and you in fact recognize the reason, but since you decided "this dungeon doesn't count because XYZ" you are now mad at the guy who wants to follow the rule. It really doesn't matter if you think the tank should tank differently in here because guess what, he's the tank. If you want to be the tank then be the tank. If not let the tank tank the way he wants to or leave. --Sly Honestly, Sly is correct again here. The bottom line is that lots of people want to play the game their way. Regardless of that, when you can tank, you can replace the tank and be the tank yourself and then tank your way and the group will play your way or someone else will replace you as the tank, it's actually that simple. When I've played with tanks who are douches, I leave or initiate a kick vote. You should too. Remember that the game allows you a great deal of latitude with respect to playing "your way" but it doesn't necessarily give you a lot of power to assert "your way" of playing on others. Despite that, and contrary to what you probably think, you have complete freedom though because you can always leave a group and keep looking until you find one that plays "your way". -----signature----- If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips. Everyone playing WoW knows everything about playing two classes: 1) their own and 2) Hunters
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siujoey Posts: 4,944 Registered: Dec 26, '01 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 4,893 User ID: 575,651	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	Nothing to contribute here, but I had an amusing dungeon tank also. I was leveling my mage and hadn't taken him through HoR yet. So I finally get a HHoR group in the queue. As I zone in, I see the bear tank say "I am a new tank, so be patient." I am thinking to myself how badly this will go with a new tank in HHoR, but I decide to give him the benefit of the doubt. As it starts, despite my numerous protests, he decides that the middle of the room is the best place to tank the incoming waves. Obviously that did not work very well for very long. After we all wipe, he drops immediately. Moral of the story: if you don't know what you are doing, ask first. You will save yourself some embarrassment and save everyone a lot of time. Also- don't tank waves in the middle of HHoR. Tanks that take the "you yank it, you tank it" approach are justified as long as they only take that approach for repeated offenses. Everyone makes mistakes, and those should be ignored. It happens. I don't mind helping people if they screw up, that's what a team does. But if you are too stupid to listen and follow directions time after time after time, you better expect to deal with the consequences. -----signature----- I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
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Conceited Posts: 3,245 Registered: Jan 29, '02 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 3,130 User ID: 636,933	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	siujoey posted: Moral of the story: if you don't know what you are doing, ask first. You will save yourself some embarrassment and save everyone a lot of time. Also- don't tank waves in the middle of HHoR. I had a situation like this in Heroic Deadmines. I recently hit 85 and geared up within a couple days to heroic level. So hadn't run much other than BRC on heroic. I generally have my friend with me telling me all the additional heroic changes from normal. He hadn't done Deadmines yet either. So as soon as we ported in I made sure I told the group it was my first time in this heroic. Of course the Mage(geared in a good amount of cata raid epics) made a comment like "/facepalm" or something. So I called him out telling him to either deal with it and provide any important info, or leave. The run went pretty smooth. I got the achieve on first boss for avoiding the flame line, whatever it was. We wiped once on the mechanical guy as no one mentioned anything about the adds, aced it the second try. Finished the place with 1 wipe, and managed to enjoy it. I'm finding the new "hard" heroics way better than the Wrath ones. Everyone complains that they are hard. The only reason they are hard is because no one says anything when they don't know wtf they are supposed to do(beams on 2nd boss BRC, anyone? Had a lot of dps say "ya, I got it", just to wipe us). -----signature----- Conceited
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Billarious Title: Consumer of Coffee Posts: 862 Registered: Jul 4, '03 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 822 User ID: 819,331	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	chaddlock posted: Billarious posted: But wait, according to this board, tanks are saints and the rest of the unwashed masses are just lucky to be in their esteemed presence. How dare you question a tank! Actually this is everywhere... not just his board. It twas sarcasm -----signature----- Rift: Trying a Stormcaller WoW: 85 Mage, 85 Druid, 85 Death Knight, 85 Rogue, 82 Hunter and more. Taking a break DAoC: 50 Champ, 50 Ranger, 44 Friar - retired Others tried: LOTRO, EQ2, Horizons (yikes!), Eve, WAR, Aion
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Quazimortal Title: The One and Only Posts: 17,806 Registered: Sep 18, '04 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 17,157 User ID: 968,129	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	Cawlin posted: Quazimortal posted: Tanks that won't go the extra mile to pull off of aggressive DPSers are just plain lazy imo. DPSers who won't go the extra mile and exercise a bit of intelligence and restraint so they don't pull off of the tank are just plain lazy imo. What's your point? You didn't refute my statement one bit. I agree with you, DPSers should be smarter and not pull aggro but that's no excuse to be a shitty tank and not taunt off them. -----signature----- â€œA painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence. We provide the music, and you provide the silence.â€ ~Leopold Stokowski
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Cawlin Posts: 20,754 Registered: Feb 22, '05 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 20,667 User ID: 1,030,445	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	Quazimortal posted: Cawlin posted: Quazimortal posted: Tanks that won't go the extra mile to pull off of aggressive DPSers are just plain lazy imo. DPSers who won't go the extra mile and exercise a bit of intelligence and restraint so they don't pull off of the tank are just plain lazy imo. What's your point? You didn't refute my statement one bit. I agree with you, DPSers should be smarter and not pull aggro but that's no excuse to be a shitty tank and not taunt off them. So did you not understand that my post equated "aggressive DPSer" with one that lacks the intelligence or restraint to play reasonably? "Aggressive DPSer" is more often than not a synonym for "douchey player who either sucks, is unaware of how to play in a group, or is trying to make the dungeon run some sort of e-peen contest". It's not a tank's job to fix stupid. It's a DPSer's job to play within the tank's capacity, or tank themselves, or find another tank, or find another group. Put even more clearly, see, it takes more effort to DPS efficiently AND effectively than it does to merely mash buttons at whatever target comes up when you hit the tab key without regard for threat or kill order. Yet you assert that the tank should "go the extra mile" to accommodate players who are too lazy to just go the required miles (not even the extra ones) to simply play intelligently. Also note that the last line of my post said "it goes both ways". -----signature----- If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips. Everyone playing WoW knows everything about playing two classes: 1) their own and 2) Hunters
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Ayadread Posts: 5,749 Registered: Mar 15, '06 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 4,988 User ID: 1,124,687	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	If a dps somehow out-threats me on the proper target (highly unlikely given the current state), I will by all means pull off of him. If the dps is pulling mobs "for me" or lighting up another mob while skull is still up, I hope for his sake he can tank them. When I tank I go as fast as my healers mana allows me to, and not all healers are created equal. If I'm running with a guild healer I barely use cc anymore. If it's a pug I'm cc'ing everything I can. If you don't like it you are free to leave or roll your own tank to set the pace. -----signature----- Daoc - Forever #1
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HunterTalon Posts: 3,960 Registered: Jun 12, '00 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 3,597 User ID: 28,960	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	The tank and the healer set the pace, control the fights, and give the orders in a dungeon. That's just the way it works logically and logistically, and due to the increased responsibility and increased difficulty of those roles there will always be 100 times more DPS than these critical roles. That means that the mindless masses of deeps follow orders, period. If you unwashed peasants don't like it, go wait in the queue for another hour, mine is instant. -----signature----- "You may have graduated from Cambridge but I am an honorary graduate from Starfleet Academy!" ~ Sheldon
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-Mythril- Title: International Man of Mythery Posts: 12,141 Registered: Jan 6, '01 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 11,989 User ID: 61,530	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	This isn't the instance to be debating the pros and cons of pulling as DPS. There is no pulling groups in VH. Set timer. Everyone should be engaging at the same time. Bad tank imo. -----signature----- Tongue-tied and twisted. Just an earthbound misfit; I. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mythphisto- Hunter; Too many alts to list.
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Trigeminal Title: Drill, Fill, Bill Posts: 11,233 Registered: Mar 17, '02 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 11,153 User ID: 658,468	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	-Mythril- posted: This isn't the instance to be debating the pros and cons of pulling as DPS. There is no pulling groups in VH. Set timer. Everyone should be engaging at the same time. Bad tank imo. /agree -----signature----- PvPing since 1975
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NightPath Posts: 5,418 Registered: Jan 22, '02 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 5,294 User ID: 624,617	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	A good tank will take the aggro. Good DPS'r will drag the aggro into the tank or use an ability to shed aggro. A good healer will keep them all alive. -----signature----- Proud Father and husband If you think that you're successful in a video game than you haven't seen the sun in a while
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Stalker_Moonshadow Posts: 12,589 Registered: Sep 28, '00 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 12,065 User ID: 46,531	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	I have stood by, on both my healer and tank, and watched dps die because they couldn't tank what they pulled. But this is only after repeated attempts to get them to stop pulling. For one particularly annoying dps that still kept doing this, I finally refused to rez him. As a healer, I'll be damned if I am going to heal a dps if the tank is intentionally not getting aggro on it. I am not putting myself on the aggro list just to cover for a dumbass dps. -----signature----- Earth First! We can mine and log the other planets later...
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Diskent Posts: 209 Registered: Nov 4, '09 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 209 User ID: 1,375,477	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	Conceited posted: [quote=siujoey] So as soon as we ported in I made sure I told the group it was my first time in this heroic. Of course the Mage(geared in a good amount of cata raid epics) made a comment like "/facepalm" or something. So I called him out telling him to either deal with it and provide any important info, or leave. That is the problem now. There is such an unrealistic expectatoin that everyone needs to know the dungeon like the back of thier hand. -----signature----- (none)
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The_Korrigan Title: Scrub Buster Posts: 21,660 Registered: Jul 17, '01 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 21,292 User ID: 255,861	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	Diskent posted: That is the problem now. There is such an unrealistic expectatoin that everyone needs to know the dungeon like the back of thier hand. Is it so unrealistic to expect, even more 3 months after the release of an expansion, that people are informed about the content? I mean, it's not rocket science either, everything is on WoW wiki and takes like 2 minutes for an average brain to understand. It doesn't mean you won't stand in the fire, but at least that you'll know there will be fire. "Knowing there's a trap is the first step in evading it" - Frank Herbert, Dune. The first month or so after new content, people who know inform the others. But 3+ months later... seriously! I remember a time when MMORPGs REQUIRED players to be informed. In Asheron's Call, you were going nowhere without a minimum of... how to call this? Let's say "education" and "knowledge" about the game. Also... it's amazing how many people won't ASK if they don't know. They will just make the 4 other people endure their ignorance instead of asking in the group what the boss is all about. Fact is - most of today's players are silver spoon fed and expect the others to do the job for them. They play a MMO like they play their solo console game, not realizing they are also wasting 4 other people's time. -----signature----- SWTOR: 50 Jedi Shadow (Tank), 50 Sith Marauder (Annihilation). LOTRO: Lifetime account, playing very casually. WoW: Both accounts canceled for now. GW2: Future Warrior.
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siujoey Posts: 4,944 Registered: Dec 26, '01 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 4,893 User ID: 575,651	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	The_Korrigan posted: Diskent posted: That is the problem now. There is such an unrealistic expectatoin that everyone needs to know the dungeon like the back of thier hand. Is it so unrealistic to expect, even more 3 months after the release of an expansion, that people are informed about the content? I mean, it's not rocket science either, everything is on WoW wiki and takes like 2 minutes for an average brain to understand. It doesn't mean you won't stand in the fire, but at least that you'll know there will be fire. "Knowing there's a trap is the first step in evading it" - Frank Herbert, Dune. The first month or so after new content, people who know inform the others. But 3+ months later... seriously! I remember a time when MMORPGs REQUIRED players to be informed. In Asheron's Call, you were going nowhere without a minimum of... how to call this? Let's say "education" and "knowledge" about the game. Also... it's amazing how many people won't ASK if they don't know. They will just make the 4 other people endure their ignorance instead of asking in the group what the boss is all about. Fact is - most of today's players are silver spoon fed and expect the others to do the job for them. They play a MMO like they play their solo console game, not realizing they are also wasting 4 other people's time. I haven't even done all the instances yet because I can't seem to pick a main. Instead of getting to 85, I have 5 at 83/84. I have not and will not go watch videos on the net to learn the fights. I experience them. That is the game. This isn't a board meeting I am preparing for, I don't need to have it down cold before I even step foot in there. Get real, stop being a douche. -----signature----- I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
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The_Korrigan Title: Scrub Buster Posts: 21,660 Registered: Jul 17, '01 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 21,292 User ID: 255,861	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	If you had been less in a hurry to flame and insult me, you'd have read all my post. Notably this part: "Also... it's amazing how many people won't ASK if they don't know. They will just make the 4 other people endure their ignorance instead of asking in the group what the boss is all about." So when you arrive to a new boss you don't know yet... are you asking the group what it's all about? Yes? Good, you've done half the job already not to be a leeching dead weight for the 4 other people you play with. And also, not having done all instances doesn't stop you from informing yourself when you're about to do one. You read this forum like all of us, the websites where to get that info are known to all here. Get real, stop being a lazy douche (your word... not mine) expecting the others to do your homework. -----signature----- SWTOR: 50 Jedi Shadow (Tank), 50 Sith Marauder (Annihilation). LOTRO: Lifetime account, playing very casually. WoW: Both accounts canceled for now. GW2: Future Warrior.
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NukeMage Posts: 3,856 Registered: Apr 7, '02 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 3,821 User ID: 666,051	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	Stepping into a Heroic is not the time to learn "how a boss works". Either go run it blind with guildies/friends, spend the 45 seconds to read up on the fight or at the very least tell your group beforehand that you are clueless and would please like an explaination. Deadly Boss Mods is also a big help if you are unfamiliar with encounters (or even if you are!) Yes, this is a game, and should be played for fun. However, if someone fails to spend a minute or two of their time to learn something and causes four other people to waste half an hour or more of their time, that just isn't right. That is just stubborn and selfish. Now, back to the original topic . . . It almost sounds like that tank was just being a jerk to be a jerk, and wasn't really a terrible player but just was trying to purposely piss people off. "Griefing" I guess would be one way to call it -----signature----- I need a new hobby . . Ten level 85's (one of each class) in WoW Back to try out the Feb patch in AC
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siujoey Posts: 4,944 Registered: Dec 26, '01 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 4,893 User ID: 575,651	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	The_Korrigan posted: If you had been less in a hurry to flame and insult me, you'd have read all my post. Notably this part: "Also... it's amazing how many people won't ASK if they don't know. They will just make the 4 other people endure their ignorance instead of asking in the group what the boss is ?all about." So when you arrive to a new boss you don't know yet... are you asking the group what it's all about? Yes? Good, you've done half the job already not to be a leeching dead weight for the 4 other people you play with. And also, not having done all instances doesn't stop you from informing yourself when you're about to do one. You read this forum like all of us, the websites where to get that info are known to all here. Get real, stop being a lazy douche (your word... not mine) expecting the others to do your homework. I read the whole thing. You said that you expect people to know the content because we are 3 months in and there are videos on the internet. "The first month or so after new content, people who know inform the others. But 3+ months later... seriously!" Sounds to me like you expect people to know the content by now. If that wasn't what you were saying, you have a strange way of making a point because that's what your entire post implied with the exception of the one sentence you quoted. I don't expect anyone to do my homework for me. I will flat out tell you that I am not doing the homework. If I already know what's coming, it completely ruins the fun of seeing the content for the first time. I will go in completely unprepared and will ask about mechanics before the fight, but I won't go watch youtube videos about the instance first and I certainly wouldn't expect everyone else to. I didn't say I don't know where to get the information, just that I purposely won't go get it. It's never been a big deal, because I know how to play my class and I know generally what I'm doing. But to expect everyone to go out and watch videos and do their "homework"? No. -----signature----- I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
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regulator_cracka Title: They finally recognized greatness. Posts: 22,259 Registered: Jan 6, '09 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 22,219 User ID: 1,343,795	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	1) A bad pug in WoW. 2) A whine post about it. 3) Bickering ensues in whine thread. What are 3 thing that never change on tehVN, Alex? -----signature----- Self Appointed Smart Ass - Level 80 If you think my opinion is idiotic, re-read yours. Dont worry I will give my opinion anyways. The PvP MMO is NOT a "niche" market, Mythic is just a "niche" company.
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The_Korrigan Title: Scrub Buster Posts: 21,660 Registered: Jul 17, '01 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 21,292 User ID: 255,861	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	Self entitlement driven casual - we have a pretty good example of those here. The whole server should work his ass off so I can enjoy my first heroic boss. God forbid I do a little research on my side, I mean, I'm a casual, I have a LIFE outside of video games! The other nerds can do that for me. -----signature----- SWTOR: 50 Jedi Shadow (Tank), 50 Sith Marauder (Annihilation). LOTRO: Lifetime account, playing very casually. WoW: Both accounts canceled for now. GW2: Future Warrior.
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_Kewk_ Title: Sith Lord Posts: 10,167 Registered: Dec 17, '02 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 9,952 User ID: 749,729	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	I was tab dotting mobs in VP today and the pally tank couldn't hold aggro off me :\ -----signature----- (none)
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siujoey Posts: 4,944 Registered: Dec 26, '01 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 4,893 User ID: 575,651	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	The_Korrigan posted: <Insert arrogant, self-entitled ramblings regarding superiority in a game that anyone can master here.> I don't remember saying anything about time constraints or family obligations or anything of that nature being the reason I don't research the dungeons. It ruins the first time for me. Like seeing the ending of the movie before watching it from the beginning. Sorry if you don't approve- guess you will just have to keep grouping with your elite guild that none of the peasants on this board could ever hope to join. -----signature----- I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
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regulator_cracka Title: They finally recognized greatness. Posts: 22,259 Registered: Jan 6, '09 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 22,219 User ID: 1,343,795	Subject: Um, tank, you mind helping us?
	siujoey posted: The_Korrigan posted: <Insert arrogant, self-entitled ramblings regarding superiority in a game that anyone can master here.> I don't remember saying anything about time constraints or family obligations or anything of that nature being the reason I don't research the dungeons. It ruins the first time for me. Like seeing the ending of the movie before watching it from the beginning. Sorry if you don't approve- guess you will just have to keep grouping with your elite guild that none of the peasants on this board could ever hope to join. Especially not a self entitled arrogant peasant like you. We already pre-denied your application just for grins. -----signature----- Self Appointed Smart Ass - Level 80 If you think my opinion is idiotic, re-read yours. Dont worry I will give my opinion anyways. The PvP MMO is NOT a "niche" market, Mythic is just a "niche" company.
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