Rill_of_WE
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Couple interesting articles...
http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.com/2011/01/three-reasons-creators-should-never.html
http://twofoldsilence.diogenes-lamp.info/2011/01/actually-some-developers-should-read.html
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Trigeminal
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I don't know if they can read.
The real question is "Should or Shouldn't Devs Have Their Forums Read to Them?"
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Blisteringballs
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Yes, they should, and they should make an honest attempt to engage their community as often as possible. It's alarming that developers of non-MMO's do this so often, and yet Blizzard doesn't. IMO they would be even more amazingly successful if they did.
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Cryme
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Isn't it a loud minority that posts in the forums though? Is it really representative of the population?
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-Spacelord-
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"Is it really representative of the population?"
What is?
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Ayadread
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Given the off the wall knee jerk reactions on this forum (and worse on the game forums), I'm glad they don't listen to the vocal minority. And point in fact, Blizz devs to read their forums, albeit specific ones. I've received responses on more than one occassion because I post more than a, "qq whyz u be nerfin my abilties!"
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Cryme
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-Spacelord- posted:
"Is it really representative of the population?"
What is?
The data Blizzard is capable of acquiring across all of the servers regarding how many people are playing what classes and how they're using them.
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GrimTempest
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the best way to deal with this, at least if your part of a big game project like wow, is to have community reps who filter out the vitriol and pass on the concerns, bugs, and complaints from forums in a filtered format to the devs. devs should always have an idea of how the players are feeling about things but they shouldn't have to deal with the pure crap that gets thrown around on forums.
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PallyDog
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Well the second question would be, why don't solid gamers use their forums? Becaues they're populated by awful, annoying, QQing, loudmouths with littel o no moderation. It's not conducive to community building. And yes I think they should read forums. As part of personal development if not game development. When you're selling to the public, you go out to see what the public thinks of your product. You don't just say, "I have the best ideas and that's all there is to it." At least not if you really want to provide your audience with a game they'll enjoy and continue to come back to.
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-Mithan-
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They should read the forums, but they shouldn't act on everything on the forums.
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Trigeminal
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I think the developers should hire a group of actual players to consult with. Many class changes over the years show that they are too busy counting money and never actually log into the game.
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SunnyDelight
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Trigeminal posted:
I think the developers should hire a group of actual players to consult with. Many class changes over the years show that they are too busy counting money and never actually log into the game.
You realize they actually play the game, right? 
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Flesh_Wound
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Be aware, never engage.
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_Warlucky_
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GrimTempest posted:
the best way to deal with this, at least if your part of a big game project like wow, is to have community reps who filter out the vitriol and pass on the concerns, bugs, and complaints from forums in a filtered format to the devs. devs should always have an idea of how the players are feeling about things but they shouldn't have to deal with the pure crap that gets thrown around on forums.
Bingo
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Ardenwolfe
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PallyDog posted:
Well the second question would be, why don't solid gamers use their forums? Becaues they're populated by awful, annoying, QQing, loudmouths with littel o no moderation. It's not conducive to community building.
This is the reason I stopped posting here. After reading the more recent topics, especially about Blizzard's failure with 4.7 million copies, a world-record, and the conclusion some reached, you understand why developers should not read and respond on this media.
At some point, you realize how pointless it is.
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Ferrydust
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SunnyDelight posted:
Trigeminal posted:
I think the developers should hire a group of actual players to consult with. Many class changes over the years show that they are too busy counting money and never actually log into the game.
You realize they actually play the game, right?
I seriously, SERIOUSLY doubt it.
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Sprawl-zero1eye-
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-Mithan- posted:
They should read the forums, but they shouldn't act on everything on the forums.
This.
You should know what people think of your product. However, that doesn't mean you run around like an idiot trying to please them all. Feedback is important!
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Sprawl-zero1eye-
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Ferrydust posted:
SunnyDelight posted:
Trigeminal posted:
I think the developers should hire a group of actual players to consult with. Many class changes over the years show that they are too busy counting money and never actually log into the game.
You realize they actually play the game, right?
I seriously, SERIOUSLY doubt it.
I've been to their office and know they play. If you were asked to play a game or get back to work, which would you do? lol.
However, they are people, like you and me. Pick a random person on this forum. Would you trust that person to make changes to the game that weren't bias? Of course not. You'd have to pick the right people, and even then, they wouldn't be perfect. Okay, well you can't have the "right people" because they are on a new project. So now pick your B team.
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vn_vigilante66
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Trigeminal posted:
I think the developers should hire a group of actual players to consult with. Many class changes over the years show that they are too busy counting money and never actually log into the game.
I know that they consult with certain guilds for changes in the game. They may not hire them but they definitely look at how these top guilds are doing, talk to them, invite them to test out new things and go off that sometimes.
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st0rmie
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Ferrydust posted:
SunnyDelight posted:
You realize they actually play the game, right?
I seriously, SERIOUSLY doubt it.
Of course they play the game. Everyone knows that every change to the game mechanics is motivated by a developer's desire to buff the class he plays or to nerf a class that is better than the one he plays. Don't they?
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Groooovechampion
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Pretty much an Every man for themselves and Double-Edged Blade, if you ask me.
Too many do's and don'ts that makes the decision hard.
Devs should have a glimpse on what people are saying, but it should be the constructive critism that is not written by rambling trolls; constructive critism as in basing concerns on why something should be nerfed by comparing it and giving a viable opinion.
But on top of that, the dev(s) need to keep a clear mind. It is certainly easy to be merely corrupted by nerdrage and baits. Devs just need to be aware that before they read their forums that they are aware that they are entering toxic waste zone.
I think it`s best to have a representative that can clearly filter out the trash (as well as possible), who would then give a daily/weekly/monthly report - plus the psychological training.
The chance is simply too high that a dev will get suckered-in if they read it  .
I really like the example about the IGN article and his comment below it to that person. Personally speaking, I'm not even a dev or such but it is so easy to have trolling bear traps try to snap your leg. I agree with the article that indie-dev is good (if not important) as niche games are always good -- but they really need to have some creativity.
Also, let`t not forget that aspect "You can`t please everybody". I forgot if that was a tvtrope or something like that but phrase is just plausible. If a dev does listen to somebody and changes, regardless if it is the most correct and best nerf in Earth's history, he'll still have at least 1+ troll that will tear him down in the forum.
It is okay to post opinions on nerfs and stuff; that's what the forums are there for. After all, if you put "post your opinion", you asking for trouble. xD
However, a dev should only go to MODERATED areas. There is nothing more awesome than mods who know when to chop people`s head off if they are crossing the line for no reason.
(off topic)
Like he said, certain games are just revamps, but let`s not forget that we see such revamps everywhere else, too. Some are good, some are bad. Considering TV, I think Battlestar Galactica was a good remake ~ despite the heavy religion stuff in the end, but its a story.
Back to games. I recall reading a similiar commentary about "creativity is dead", where new ideas are somewhat stuck on something that already exist or existed, due to the nature of how games, fanfictions and etc are invented.
typos
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The_Korrigan
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Ayadread posted:
Given the off the wall knee jerk reactions on this forum (and worse on the game forums), I'm glad they don't listen to the vocal minority. And point in fact, Blizz devs to read their forums, albeit specific ones. I've received responses on more than one occassion because I post more than a, "qq whyz u be nerfin my abilties!"
This.
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Sociop
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SunnyDelight posted:
Trigeminal posted:
I think the developers should hire a group of actual players to consult with. Many class changes over the years show that they are too busy counting money and never actually log into the game.
You realize they actually play the game, right?
And that inevitably due to human nature causes biases which skews their judgement thus likely is the biggest reason it has been a perpetual clusterblank.
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Sociop
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Cryme posted:
Isn't it a loud minority that posts in the forums though? Is it really representative of the population?
I would think for every complaint on the forum there would be at least 10,000 - 100,000 perhaps a lot more that feel the same way, you multiply by that by the agreeing posts and you would be large enough of a percentage for them to not go ignored.
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Cawlin
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If Blizzard had better QA practices I would feel more confident in their devs reading the forums. Blizzard's internal QA is horrible however and there is obvious favoritism amongst the dev staff for classes and playstyles. Forums only serve to exacerbate this issue since we all know that when we read a forum we tend to ignore dissenting views and focus on views expressed which agree with us.
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If the devs stop listening to player feedback or stop playing the game themselves, I will cancel the same day. I am not one of those people that threatens to cancel over every little thing, but a team full of developers with no real knowledge of how things are working? No thanks. I would rather have slightly biased developers than clueless ones.
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Trigeminal
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I should have clarified. They may "play" but they don't pvp. The raiders get huffy when their dps is nerfed a little here and there. They can completely break classes in pvp with the push of a button though.
It is a pve game with pvp as an afterthought. It would be nice if they had a small group of pvpers to consult with prior to making decisions that break classes.
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Cryme
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Sociop posted:
Cryme posted:
Isn't it a loud minority that posts in the forums though? Is it really representative of the population?
I would think for every complaint on the forum there would be at least 10,000 - 100,000 perhaps a lot more that feel the same way, you multiply by that by the agreeing posts and you would be large enough of a percentage for them to not go ignored.
First, no way every complaint on the forum has 10k-100k people that would agree with it. Have you seen some of the asinine complaints on the Blizzard forums?
Second, 100k people out of 4.7M copies sold, is like 2%. I don't want devs making kneejerk reactions because of the opinion of 2% of the population. The majority of that 2% won't even really understand what their talking about or the consequences of whatever they're asking to be changed.
I look at the mess that is the Blizzard forums and I'm amazed anyone is able to sift through the garbage for anything useful at all.
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Blisteringballs
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Well, going on historical trends from the WoW forums, statistical inference suggests that most players share an opinion contra to GC's statements. It's not strong enough to make them do an about-face like they did with the RealID fiasco, but it is apparent. Even anecdotal evidence is showing a downward trend, so despite what anyone thinks heroics will be nerfed (and probably severely) soon.
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Trigeminal posted:
I should have clarified. They may "play" but they don't pvp.
And yet, still a ton of nerfs (and notably in recent changes) come from PvP whining... so I seriously doubt your theory. Their shitty "eSport" crap still ruins parts of the game for those who couldn't care less about PvP.
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Groooovechampion
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eSport - ahhh my eyes! 
I guess this is where GW had that little difference due to the PVP and PvE being two seperate aspects of the game. I do not know if nerf/fixes affected both, but on a logical base they could have been separated(sp) and thus keep the apples away from the oranges.
WoW-wise I do recall agonies from the past cosidering fixes/nerfs that were totally craptastic due to arena play.
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Diskent
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Rill_of_WE posted:
Couple interesting articles...
http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.com/2011/01/three-reasons-creators-should-never.html
http://twofoldsilence.diogenes-lamp.info/2011/01/actually-some-developers-should-read.html
As others have pointed out, there is just SOOOO much whineing that goes on in those forums. They really need groups of moderators to weed out the crying (QQ to use the venacular of the day) from the legitimate concerns.
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Ugh_Lancelot
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Cryme posted:
Second, 100k people out of 4.7M copies sold, is like 2%. I don't want devs making kneejerk reactions because of the opinion of 2% of the population. The majority of that 2% won't even really understand what their talking about or the consequences of whatever they're asking to be changed.
Well, if we're talking about forum posts resulting in buffs/nerfs, you can't take the people complaining about ability X versus the entire rest of the population. You have to break it down by the number of people who actually play the class or compete against it, as most other folks would love to see their opponent nerfed or simply don't care.
But again, why would devs read the forums when they have community reps that can report back the most-voiced complaints and then go pull the actual in-game data for analysis instead of relying on biased, myopic individuals?
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Cawlin posted:
If Blizzard had better QA practices I would feel more confident in their devs reading the forums. Blizzard's internal QA is horrible however and there is obvious favoritism amongst the dev staff for classes and playstyles.
As an example, on one hand, I'm glad to see that they're actively managing the game via hot fixes. I remember when small class fixes could take 6-9 months. However, I also think the new hot fixes magnify how bad the development process is at Blizzard. Why does nothing ever seem to be working correctly or be balanced when it's initially released? Where'd that Blizzard polish go?
As for the forums specifically, companies have adopted the idea that forum quantity is more important than forum quality ... that larger number of posters are good because it indicates your game is more successful mentality. Personally, I would respect the company that actively manages their community like CoH did in the beginning.
I'm not arguing for more bannings, just for the community managers to actively provide the community with some direction and focus. I think that Ghostcrawler's posts/blogs are a huge step in the right direction. Other simple solutions are forum games, which Sprawl and Arc? utilized a little while back. It's fun, people get involved and are focused on something other than just creating havoc/trolling.
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Cryme
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TinMan52 posted:
As an example, on one hand, I'm glad to see that they're actively managing the game via hot fixes. I remember when small class fixes could take 6-9 months. However, I also think the new hot fixes magnify how bad the development process is at Blizzard. Why does nothing ever seem to be working correctly or be balanced when it's initially released? Where'd that Blizzard polish go?
I know the little experience I have writing specs and areas for the dikuMUD I play can hardly be compared to the scale of something like WoW, but in my experience, no amount of in-house testing can anticipate what is going to happen when it is released on the population.
Obviously Blizzard has more resources to test things beforehand than I did, but it seemed like no matter how much time I spent trying to attack my code using different tactics, etc. It usually took about 5% of that amount of time for someone in the general population thinking outside the box to find an exploit or a bug in what I implemented. I imagine it's the same for Blizzard just on a larger scale.
You can test until your blue in the face and think something is ironclad, then you let a couple million other people try it, and inevitably they poke holes in it within minutes. At this point you've gone from being proactive to reactive and you have no choice but to hotfix it before it gets any worse.
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Trigeminal
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My only wish is that they'd keep nerfs and buffs to things like damage and not mess with the "fun" aspects of the game. Putting charge and intercept on the same cooldown for warriors just flat out removes a lot of the fun people have with their warriors. I'd rather take a 50% damage nerf. Now all pvp warriors are going to be little, waddling pengiuns. They will be perma-snared, rooted, etc. Kiting inc.
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Auenwing
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Trade-offs.
Managers need to understand what it's like from a customer experience.
If you sit in a building with a "Blizzard" label on it, your game play will be automatically "filtered". It's a given. You just know too much. Aware of design decisions. Why things are the way they are from an internal perspective. Technical limitations for things.
The closest you can come to how your customers are feeling about the game, and how they are experiencing it, is gathering a general feel or tone from the forums.
You can have marketing gather feedback from emails, from feedback made during cancellation, from numbers gathered by a tool that measures instances, surveys, etcetera. You can have someone gather information from the forums FOR you. Chances are they will pre-filter/pre-consolidate that data. (You have to be careful about some employees not wanting to be the messenger of "bad news".) Or it could be that the employee skipped the one post that would smack you between the eyes as being vitally important.
All of those are good tools. None should be used separately to make decisions. Weighed, with filters taken into account (MANY of which can be/probably are political inside Blizzard), and combined will give you an overall feel from multiple viewpoints.
"Walking through" the crowds, doing a "townhall", getting "face to face" will give you one more set of data.
Not taking advantage of that last little personal hands-on checking is a trade-off.
It risks not taking into account your own perception of the customer's experience.
Loosing touch with customers is the first step in any company's decline.
They don't need to respond. It does take internal fortitude sometimes to wade through the stuff that is on the forums. And having a separate forum for players that you've trusted over the years to offer respectful/professional input is just another tool.
It should never replace first-person data gathering. It's your product. Own it. Be responsible.
Yes, I think devs need to read the forums for the games they've created (and the corresponding customers they have attracted).
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Ugh_Lancelot
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Problem is, in a small shop, you go tell the boss "Hey, our product sucks at this thing here, lemme show you" and the boss thinks about it and agrees or disagrees on the merits backed by his own experience with the product. In a conglomerate, you tell the boss that and the boss fires you and promotes the ass kisser, as it means less change and strife (aka "work").
Blizzard = small shop (bear with me)
Activision/Blizzard = conglomerate
/shrug
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Trigeminal posted:
My only wish is that they'd keep nerfs and buffs to things like damage and not mess with the "fun" aspects of the game. Putting charge and intercept on the same cooldown for warriors just flat out removes a lot of the fun people have with their warriors. I'd rather take a 50% damage nerf. Now all pvp warriors are going to be little, waddling pengiuns. They will be perma-snared, rooted, etc. Kiting inc.
This post illustrates pretty well why developers should not listen to forums. And SPECIALLY NOT about PvP.
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The_Korrigan posted:
This post illustrates pretty well why developers should not listen to forums. And SPECIALLY NOT about PvP. -- As spoken by a PvE-bot
/shrug
Rift release is a few months away. The beta was better than WoW so I'm excited for the official release.
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I guess you were too much in a hurry to flame me to actually understand what I was saying, and that I was actually siding with you...
The day some specific VN posters will use real arguments instead of childishly edit quotes in a desperate attempt to fit their failing agenda, I'll be amazed... looks like that day isn't coming anytime soon though. And the day their reading comprehension matches their trolling abilities, my jaw will drop on the floor for real I think.
Oh and btw warriors... don't forget to thank the PvP whiners for another nerf which is also, as a side effect, negatively affecting PvE. But yeah, developers should listen to forums... 
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Trigeminal
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I guess I misread.
I do agree that forums are not the best place for developers to get information. I'm also glad the government doesn't listen to every hippy group that camps out on their lawn as well. I really like WoW. I'm trying as hard as I can to find a class that I can enjoy that won't have the playstyle mechanic changed so drastically as to become unplayable. Currently I'm sticking with my pvp warrior. I am running a few heroics and getting geared for pve so I can hopefully weather the change to raiding once the pvp nerf comes. The raid groups in my guild are asking me to join their roster. I guess I should just stop fighting for pvp and give into the repeated boss killing.
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Boone-Eldar
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Depends on the forum. Some fan sites are heavily moderated and have intelligent discussion on them, IE the EJ forums.
Others like the VN boards or the official forums I can count on one hand how many useful posts I have read on those boards in 10 years. If I was a developer why would I waste my time sifting through all the negativity to find them?
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Auenwing
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Just for clarity's sake:
There is a huge huge gap between a developer reading a forum, understanding the customer experience and actually acting on it.
In that gap, there lives this concept called: discernment (e.g. acuteness in judgement).
It is the developer's responsibility to use that concept.
Blaming the 'whiners' is ludicrous.
The developer makes the final call.
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Ugh_Lancelot
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Auenwing posted:
Just for clarity's sake:
There is a huge huge gap between a developer reading a forum, understanding the customer experience and actually acting on it.
In that gap, there lives this concept called: discernment (e.g. acuteness in judgement).
It is the developer's responsibility to use that concept.
Blaming the 'whiners' is ludicrous.
The developer makes the final call.
Fair point. Especially when one man's whiner is another man's champion.
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WoW would be much easier to deal with if it was PVE-only or PVP-only. Many changes to classes are horrendous to one person (ie. me and intercept/charge change) while another would shrug them off (someone who only does pve on their warrior). They will never keep the game balanced in both pve and pvp... yet they try.
I'm hoping Rift doesn't do this. I hope they don't have monthly patches adressing "imbalance." Sprawl pointed out in another post (and I agree) that classes deemed OP in Rift will be countered by another class combination somewhere. That puts the power into the hand of the player.
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Trigeminal posted:
WoW would be much easier to deal with if it was PVE-only or PVP-only. Many changes to classes are horrendous to one person (ie. me and intercept/charge change) while another would shrug them off (someone who only does pve on their warrior). They will never keep the game balanced in both pve and pvp... yet they try.
I'm hoping Rift doesn't do this. I hope they don't have monthly patches adressing "imbalance." Sprawl pointed out in another post (and I agree) that classes deemed OP in Rift will be countered by another class combination somewhere. That puts the power into the hand of the player.
So, because you cannot perma stun someone with your warrior anymore PVP is broken?
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The_Korrigan posted:
Trigeminal posted:
I should have clarified. They may "play" but they don't pvp.
And yet, still a ton of nerfs (and notably in recent changes) come from PvP whining... so I seriously doubt your theory. Their shitty "eSport" crap still ruins parts of the game for those who couldn't care less about PvP.
Why the hate on PVP Korrigan?
Had your ass handed to you one too many times by some "anti-social-casual" ???
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GutterSludge posted:
So, because you cannot perma stun someone with your warrior anymore PVP is broken?
Nope. They could remove warrior stuns completely. They could nerf the damage. I'd still be happy. I found the mobility an enjoyable part of the class. Take the stuns, take the damage... at least let me reach people once in awhile so I can swing. I'd still be gimp but I'd feel like I was part of the fight at least. These changes will turn arms warriors into waddling (snared) pengiuns.
Many pvp warriors (myself included) will respec to fury simply because they have the ability to remove snares and reset intercept cooldown.
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GutterSludge posted:
The_Korrigan posted:
Trigeminal posted:
I should have clarified. They may "play" but they don't pvp.
And yet, still a ton of nerfs (and notably in recent changes) come from PvP whining... so I seriously doubt your theory. Their shitty "eSport" crap still ruins parts of the game for those who couldn't care less about PvP.
Why the hate on PVP Korrigan?
Had your ass handed to you one too many times by some "anti-social-casual" ???
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Ardenwolfe posted:
This is the reason I stopped posting here. After reading the more recent topics, especially about Blizzard's failure with 4.7 million copies, a world-record, and the conclusion some reached, you understand why developers should not read and respond on this media.
At some point, you realize how pointless it is.
But, you still are posting here. 
Are you going to be "that chick" that needs validation and constantly says she's leaving but never really goes away?
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Kind of like a good case of herpes..???
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Guttersludge
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Ardenwolfe
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Question: Should or Shouldn't Devs Read Their Forums?
Answer: PallyDog posted:
Well the second question would be, why don't solid gamers use their forums? Becaues they're populated by awful, annoying, QQing, loudmouths with littel o no moderation. It's not conducive to community building.
Example #1: Spookysheep posted:
But, you still are posting here.
Are you going to be "that chick" that needs validation and constantly says she's leaving but never really goes away?
Example #2: GutterSludge posted:
Kind of like a good case of herpes..???
I could point out this continued baiting and trolling behavior in nearly every thread on this board, from it's selective group of special posters, but I trust the point is clear.
At some point, you must ask yourself if the annoyance of these posters is worth the hope of continued, and mature, discussion or it is just easier to move on and find better pastures.
It's a no brainer of an answer to both questions.
I'm out.
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In other words, the answer to Spook's question was "yes".
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Guttersludge
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Trigeminal posted:
WoW would be much easier to deal with if it was PVE-only or PVP-only. Many changes to classes are horrendous to one person (ie. me and intercept/charge change) while another would shrug them off (someone who only does pve on their warrior). They will never keep the game balanced in both pve and pvp... yet they try.
I'm hoping Rift doesn't do this. I hope they don't have monthly patches adressing "imbalance." Sprawl pointed out in another post (and I agree) that classes deemed OP in Rift will be countered by another class combination somewhere. That puts the power into the hand of the player.
Rock, Paper, Scissors - WOW tried that and it isn't all its cracked up to be.
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GutterSludge posted:
In other words, the answer to Spook's question was "yes".
You and Spooky and your circle jerk troll buddies are prime examples of why this board/community is utter crap now and why I don't even want to be part of this community. Grow the [tos_profanity] up already. All you do is tear people down.
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JaredKorry posted:
GutterSludge posted:
In other words, the answer to Spook's question was "yes".
You and Spooky and your circle jerk troll buddies are prime examples of why this board/community is utter crap now and why I don't even want to be part of this community. Grow the [tos_quoted violation] up already. All you do is tear people down.
Why they haven't been banned years ago is beyond me. It is transparent what they do here.
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GutterSludge
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Or,
Arden is the troll, and you are just too ignorant to realize it.
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Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
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GutterSludge
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JaredKorry posted:
GutterSludge posted:
In other words, the answer to Spook's question was "yes".
You and Spooky and your circle jerk troll buddies are prime examples of why this board/community is utter crap now and why I don't even want to be part of this community. Grow the **** up already. All you do is tear people down.
Profanity is very much a bannable offense.
Pot, do you call the kettle "black" much? Or just here on the boards.
"People who cannot control their emotions and therefore resort to obscenities and personal attacks due to having nothing intelligent to say are prime examples of why this board/community is utter crap now."
*fixed*
Edit: notice I did not repost your profanity? That is also a bannable offense.
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Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
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Boone-Eldar posted:
JaredKorry posted:
GutterSludge posted:
In other words, the answer to Spook's question was "yes".
You and Spooky and your circle jerk troll buddies are prime examples of why this board/community is utter crap now and why I don't even want to be part of this community. Grow the **** up already. All you do is tear people down.
Why they haven't been banned years ago is beyond me. It is transparent what they do here.
So, asking a person "why they keep posting", (because that person has repeatedly stated that they will no longer post) and then equating that situation with a perfect anology, should be bannable?
I disagree. It was just a question, followed by a medical anology.
However, Jared's post contains not only a blatant personal attack, but also profanity. A double whammy with the ban stick is completely deserved on his part. (and Boone, you deserve one as well for re-posting it)
I agree, let's ban both Boone and Jared for purposefully and blatantly violating board rules.
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Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
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Boone-Eldar
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GutterSludge posted:
So, asking a person "why they keep posting", (because that person has repeatedly stated that they will no longer post) and then equating that situation with a perfect anology, should be bannable?
I disagree. It was just a question, followed by a medical anology.
However, Jared's post contains not only a blatant personal attack, but also profanity. A double whammy with the ban stick is completely deserved on his part. (and Boone, you deserve one as well for re-posting it)
I agree, let's ban both Boone and Jared for purposefully and blatantly violating board rules.
And that has what to do with the topic of the post?
The whole I'll bait you, while toeing the board rule line, until you break the board rules and then report you for it thing is nothing new. What you are doing is nothing original.
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Boone-Eldar posted:
And that has what to do with the topic of the post?
As much to do with the topic as the previous posts by yourself and Jared.
Hello pot, meet kettle.
Edit: and just for clarity, I have never reported anyone, for anything.
I just cannot stand hypocrisy, and will point it out every time. Claiming that someone should be banned, while at the same time violating board rules, is very hypocritical, Boone.
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Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
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Boone-Eldar
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Should or Shouldn't Devs Read Their Forums?
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GutterSludge posted:
Boone-Eldar posted:
And that has what to do with the topic of the post?
As much to do with the topic as the previous posts by yourself and Jared.
Hello pot, meet kettle.
I am not the one who veered it off topic am I? Want to take a guess on how many topics in your post history are actually on topic?
GutterSludge posted:
Edit: and just for clarity, I have never reported anyone, for anything.
I just cannot stand hypocrisy, and will point it out every time.
Good thing we have you around to do so. How would this board exist without your refreshing honesty.
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Seriously?
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GutterSludge
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All of them.
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Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
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JaredKorry
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Should or Shouldn't Devs Read Their Forums?
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[tos_trolling]
Edit: I would subscribe to insider is a flash if they offered an ignore user option. It would be a win/win/situation for them. More paying users, better quality topics/conversations since the circle jerk crowd would be ignored by most, and definitely a better, friendlier community, which would attract more (possibly paying) users instead of the circle jerk crowd running people off, as is the current situation.
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Boone-Eldar
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You are falling right into their game dude.
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Seriously?
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GutterSludge
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It isn't a game.
It's just the truth. Look at Jared's last couple of posts. He really makes the Vn proud, doesn't he?
No self control. Intentionally violating rules. (planting TOS able material in a misquote is also bannable, Jared)
Not only does he not know the rules, even when they are explained, he breaks them anyway.
Jared is a prime example of the scourge of this community. Fortunately, I take him with a grain of salt. He has latched on to 3 or 4 trolls on this forum, and ignores common sense, reason, and logic in order to defend them.
Jared, this is how easy it is... I will ignore you. No special features required.
And lets face it, I wont be missing anything of value 
-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
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The_Korrigan
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GutterSludge posted:
It isn't a game.
I was suspecting you were that pathetic, and I was sadly right.
-----signature-----
SWTOR: 50 Jedi Shadow (Tank), 50 Sith Marauder (Annihilation).
LOTRO: Lifetime account, playing very casually.
WoW: Both accounts canceled for now.
GW2: Future Warrior.
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GutterSludge
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/shrugs off the (very poorly) attempted bait.
/chuckles..the truth is never a game, Korrigan...it's just the truth
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Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
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JaredKorry
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To the admins/mods(if there's anyone left who give's a rats ass about these boards), this exact and repeated trolling/baiting BS on the part of Spooky, Gutter, and others just cost the vn boards another user. I dunno, mebbe you guys WANT these boards to die and that's why this kind of behavior is tolerated and encouraged by the mods. If so, you just got 1 step closer to your goal.
These boards remind me of Mordred DAOC. Anyone new who tried to join would get ganked/harrassed repeatedly until they gave up and left the server. And then those who did the ganking/harrassing would wonder why the server was dying. This community is utter garbage and no longer worth my time. I can find better quality conversations on the official wow forums.
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GutterSludge
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Should or Shouldn't Devs Read Their Forums?
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Auenwing posted:
Loosing touch with customers is the first step in any company's decline.
Again, Auen hits the nail on the head.
Keep in mind, the type of forum matters quite a bit....
The bug report forum? Yah, devs definitely need to be reading every one of those posts.
Technical issues? Same same.
General forums? Read, yes, but take with a grain of salt. We know devs cannot make everyone happy, all of the time. So these posts need to be scrutinized for relevance, importance, and content.
Also we have to keep in mind that hardly anyone gives positive feedback on a whim. When have you ever called a company, unsolicited, and told them how awesome their product was???
"Hey, (insert company name), I just wanted to call you and let you know that your product is working as intended..thanks a lot!!"" We paid for a product, and expect it to work as intended. Our initial "thanks" was our money going into the hands of the company.
This hardly ever happens, therefore we can always expect a much larger proportion of disgruntled posters on a products forum than those who are "just peachy" with everything.
And yes, these posts need to be read and digested accordingly by the developers.
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Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
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Spookysheep
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Did I call it or what?
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I liek cheese
Pirates > Ninjas
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GutterSludge
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-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"Yea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
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