As you?re probably aware by now, an update was applied to Tol Barad shortly before the holidays which granted the attacking side 1800 Honor Points for a victory. While the goal with that change was to provide more incentive for the attacking forces to claim victory, it ultimately led to an undermining of the spirit of competition in Tol Barad. We?ve just applied a hotfix which has lowered the attacking faction?s gain to 360 Honor Points for a victory. The defending faction will still earn 180 Honor Points for a victory.

We appreciate all of your feedback regarding this change. We'll continue working to make Tol Barad a fun and engaging PvP environment.

Ferrydust posted:

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The 1800 honor ruined PVP for this season. RUINED.

I am one of the people who actually ground out all my honor on my main and was fully geared before they made the change. Am I bitter that people from my guild that NEVER play started setting their alarms for every attacking TB and getting fully geared in less than 3 days? Yeah. But that isn't the main reason I am bitter. I am bitter because now no one plays anymore because they are fully geared. 3 arenas a week and you are done.

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The_Korrigan posted:

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You won't be too angry against me, then... I indeed participated in a few 1800 honor battles, but I didn't setup an alarm, and I used the honor to buy the PvP mounts I was missing...

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Gidgiddoni posted:

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I think it was great and couldn't care less about the mighty and powerful and overly skilled individuals who managed to earn their honor the "hard" way a drip at a time. Yeah. Poor you. I managed to get a couple of my 80s in on the windfall of 1800 and would continue to do it. I think it was great and couldn't give a rat's behind about how people managed to get geared out.

Why should it matter?

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Gidgiddoni posted:

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I think it was great and couldn't care less about the mighty and powerful and overly skilled individuals who managed to earn their honor the "hard" way a drip at a time. Yeah. Poor you. I managed to get a couple of my 80s in on the windfall of 1800 and would continue to do it. I think it was great and couldn't give a rat's behind about how people managed to get geared out.

Why should it matter?

I work and have a family, and I go on in the evenings and see folks in the guild and elsewhere with tons of PvE and other gear that I don't have and won't ever have because I don't have the fricking time to commit to it.

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slythetove posted:

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Exploit early, exploit often seems to be the rule in effect yet again.

Blizzard makes what is arguably about the stupidest hotpatch ever made and introduces 1800 honor per win on attack. Everyone knows this is stupid. How it ever went live will forever be a mystery.

Fine. I'll play. Except I can't get in. Ever. Well that sucks. Oh by the way, thousands of players are exploiting a bug where they get full honor even if they aren't in the battle. Fantastic.

So now, those of us who did not cheat have to spend weeks to get the gear that cheaters got in a day.

Exploit early, exploit often.

--Sly

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Broken_Kayfabe posted:

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Gidgiddoni posted:

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I think it was great and couldn't care less about the mighty and powerful and overly skilled individuals who managed to earn their honor the "hard" way a drip at a time. Yeah. Poor you. I managed to get a couple of my 80s in on the windfall of 1800 and would continue to do it. I think it was great and couldn't give a rat's behind about how people managed to get geared out.

Why should it matter?

I work and have a family, and I go on in the evenings and see folks in the guild and elsewhere with tons of PvE and other gear that I don't have and won't ever have because I don't have the fricking time to commit to it.

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I agree! I'm a super casual and I pay my $15 a month and that means I deserve everything in the game whether I earned it or not! In fact, why should I even have to do the instances and raids? I should be given justice points just for being subscribed! I'm a busy man, I have a family and 1.6 kids and two dogs a budgie and a kitten, that means I deserve loot MORE than everyone else!

Gimme gimme gimme!

...

Over-entitled casuals like the one I quoted are, bar none, the most obnoxious and damaging population in a mmorpg. They're worse than the kids spamming local with anal jokes. There isn't a single redeeming quality about them, they're a plague of inevitable destruction on anything that is fun. They are jealous of what other people have achieved and cannot stand that they don't have it, so they beat their fists and bang their heels on the ground until they get it like spoiled little children.

...

I remember back in the early days of WoW when changes were carefully considered and generally treated conservatively to avoid wild balance swings. That dev team would never have considered boosting design elements by 1000% in a panic move over a complete failure of a PvP zone creating yet more failure.

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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:

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slythetove posted:

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Exploit early, exploit often seems to be the rule in effect yet again.

Blizzard makes what is arguably about the stupidest hotpatch ever made and introduces 1800 honor per win on attack. Everyone knows this is stupid. How it ever went live will forever be a mystery.

Fine. I'll play. Except I can't get in. Ever. Well that sucks. Oh by the way, thousands of players are exploiting a bug where they get full honor even if they aren't in the battle. Fantastic.

So now, those of us who did not cheat have to spend weeks to get the gear that cheaters got in a day.

Exploit early, exploit often.

--Sly

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It's easy to say but hard to fix. Do you rollback everyone to address the issue? Can you track who took advantage of the exploit vs. people who merely played TB during the increased honor time? Probably not. And even if you could, could you be assured you wouldn't accidentally punish the innocent?

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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:

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slythetove posted:

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Exploit early, exploit often seems to be the rule in effect yet again.

Blizzard makes what is arguably about the stupidest hotpatch ever made and introduces 1800 honor per win on attack. Everyone knows this is stupid. How it ever went live will forever be a mystery.

Fine. I'll play. Except I can't get in. Ever. Well that sucks. Oh by the way, thousands of players are exploiting a bug where they get full honor even if they aren't in the battle. Fantastic.

So now, those of us who did not cheat have to spend weeks to get the gear that cheaters got in a day.

Exploit early, exploit often.

--Sly

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It's easy to say but hard to fix. Do you rollback everyone to address the issue? Can you track who took advantage of the exploit vs. people who merely played TB during the increased honor time? Probably not. And even if you could, could you be assured you wouldn't accidentally punish the innocent?

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slythetove posted:

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Exploit early, exploit often.

--Sly

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Trigeminal posted:

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Got the drake but I still want the wolf.

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slythetove posted:

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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:
It's easy to say but hard to fix. Do you rollback everyone to address the issue? Can you track who took advantage of the exploit vs. people who merely played TB during the increased honor time? Probably not. And even if you could, could you be assured you wouldn't accidentally punish the innocent?

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They've had other similar issues and blanket rolled back. Arena stuff.

It's pretty simple actually: Honor over period of time > X and kills over period < Y? Pretty freaking obvious.

--Sly

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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:

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slythetove posted:

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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:
It's easy to say but hard to fix. Do you rollback everyone to address the issue? Can you track who took advantage of the exploit vs. people who merely played TB during the increased honor time? Probably not. And even if you could, could you be assured you wouldn't accidentally punish the innocent?

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They've had other similar issues and blanket rolled back. Arena stuff.

It's pretty simple actually: Honor over period of time > X and kills over period < Y? Pretty freaking obvious.

--Sly

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That works for the extremes but what about the mild exploiters?

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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:

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slythetove posted:

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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:
It's easy to say but hard to fix. Do you rollback everyone to address the issue? Can you track who took advantage of the exploit vs. people who merely played TB during the increased honor time? Probably not. And even if you could, could you be assured you wouldn't accidentally punish the innocent?

---

They've had other similar issues and blanket rolled back. Arena stuff.

It's pretty simple actually: Honor over period of time > X and kills over period < Y? Pretty freaking obvious.

--Sly

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That works for the extremes but what about the mild exploiters?

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Broken_Kayfabe posted:

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Gidgiddoni posted:

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I think it was great and couldn't care less about the mighty and powerful and overly skilled individuals who managed to earn their honor the "hard" way a drip at a time. Yeah. Poor you. I managed to get a couple of my 80s in on the windfall of 1800 and would continue to do it. I think it was great and couldn't give a rat's behind about how people managed to get geared out.

Why should it matter?

I work and have a family, and I go on in the evenings and see folks in the guild and elsewhere with tons of PvE and other gear that I don't have and won't ever have because I don't have the fricking time to commit to it.

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I agree! I'm a super casual and I pay my $15 a month and that means I deserve everything in the game whether I earned it or not! In fact, why should I even have to do the instances and raids? I should be given justice points just for being subscribed! I'm a busy man, I have a family and 1.6 kids and two dogs a budgie and a kitten, that means I deserve loot MORE than everyone else!

Gimme gimme gimme!

...

Over-entitled casuals like the one I quoted are, bar none, the most obnoxious and damaging population in a mmorpg. They're worse than the kids spamming local with anal jokes. There isn't a single redeeming quality about them, they're a plague of inevitable destruction on anything that is fun. They are jealous of what other people have achieved and cannot stand that they don't have it, so they beat their fists and bang their heels on the ground until they get it like spoiled little children.

...

I remember back in the early days of WoW when changes were carefully considered and generally treated conservatively to avoid wild balance swings. That dev team would never have considered boosting design elements by 1000% in a panic move over a complete failure of a PvP zone creating yet more failure.

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Shenron_ posted:

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this is a pvp game. of course it matters what gear other people have. especially since we are talking about *pvp* gear here and not pve gear.

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siujoey posted:

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He never said he wanted or deserved the same gear as anyone else.

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Gidgiddoni posted:

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I work and have a family, and I go on in the evenings and see folks in the guild and elsewhere with tons of PvE and other gear that I don't have and won't ever have because I don't have the fricking time to commit to it.

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siujoey posted:

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Reading is hard.

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siujoey posted:

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The ironic part is that you call those casuals spoiled children.

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siujoey posted:

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TL:DR- Grow up.

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Gidgiddoni posted:

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Just for the record. Do you over-generalize at all times or just in this post?

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Broken_Kayfabe posted:

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Gidgiddoni posted:

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I work and have a family, and I go on in the evenings and see folks in the guild and elsewhere with tons of PvE and other gear that I don't have and won't ever have because I don't have the fricking time to commit to it.

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slythetove posted:

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1. This 1800 should never have been introduced. Any idiot could tell you this was a terrible hideous "idea". Everyone with a brain must have been on vacation at Blizzard.
2. Since it was introduced it should never have been removed.
3. Since it was removed the extreme exploiters need to be addressed.

That's how I see it. YMMV.

--Sly

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siujoey posted:

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For the record, I interpreted his post as "it happened, people exploited, it's over, who cares?" Not that he thinks it should stay that way so he can obtain the gear he is "entitled" to and catch up to "hardcore" players.

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Gidgiddoni posted:

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Blizzard put in the 1800 honor ... NOT ME. But if they put it in, heck yeah, I gathered it up as long as possible. If that insults your elitist mentality, sorry about that. Them are the breaks.

Why don't you get up a petition to Blizzard and ask them to strip away all the honor earned while the patch was in play? For Christ sake ... why don't you ask them to divide the servers into EASY and HARD versions. That way, the people who think their armory profile is the most important thing in life can have servers dedicated to their exploits. It would break my heart to see such people go. Who would my herbalist sell over-priced herb stacks to?

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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:

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slythetove posted:

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1. This 1800 should never have been introduced. Any idiot could tell you this was a terrible hideous "idea". Everyone with a brain must have been on vacation at Blizzard.
2. Since it was introduced it should never have been removed.
3. Since it was removed the extreme exploiters need to be addressed.

That's how I see it. YMMV.

--Sly

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Just so we are clear, you are saying they should punish people for taking advantage of something they allowed?

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siujoey posted:

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Right, so you were putting words in his mouth.

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Broken_Kayfabe posted:

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I agree! I'm a super casual and I pay my $15 a month and that means I deserve everything in the game whether I earned it or not! In fact, why should I even have to do the instances and raids? I should be given justice points just for being subscribed! I'm a busy man, I have a family and 1.6 kids and two dogs a budgie and a kitten, that means I deserve loot MORE than everyone else!

Gimme gimme gimme!

...

Over-entitled casuals like the one I quoted are, bar none, the most obnoxious and damaging population in a mmorpg. They're worse than the kids spamming local with anal jokes. There isn't a single redeeming quality about them, they're a plague of inevitable destruction on anything that is fun. They are jealous of what other people have achieved and cannot stand that they don't have it, so they beat their fists and bang their heels on the ground until they get it like spoiled little children.

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The_Korrigan posted:

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This said, the honor for winning is completely insignificant now. Specially since it's almost impossible to win as attacker.

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Cawlin posted:

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Yeah I know it's a game and acting in a morally relativistic way in a game doesn't mean you are that way outside the game, but in the end, it does speak to a person's character, like it or not, it does.

Yes, that is me imposing my own sense of what is "right" on, and judging others by that standard. Deal with it.

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