Shenron_
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Subject:
can you enjoy the game as much when there are no "rewards"?
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right now to me honor points have become nearly worthless. with the tol barad "fix" over the holidays, i have purchased every single pvp item on my main and all the pvp heirlooms i can use on any of my alts. a really horrible "fix" even if its temporary....completely devalued the honor system...but thats another topic.
somehow it has made pvp less fun. even if i don't do tol barad for the sick points, when i kill someone in world pvp or do a battleground it feels less fun since my character does not develop in the slightest.
same thing for justice points and pve. i have used justice points to purchase all the heirlooms i can use on my alts and already have ilvl 346+gear in all slots on my main. the points have become useless so feels like i should not run any more dungeons since i gain nothing again.
i am not casual but not hardcore either. somewhere in the middle. i am unable to commit the time for things like arena/rated bgs/raiding so it looks like i am at the ceiling already. at least during wotlk i could buy epic gems and sell them for a reasonable profit. but right now having both justice and honor at the cap with no way to profit from either is a little frustrating to me.
i know the game should be fun not just because of the rewards, but apparently rewards are fun for me. i think i am just greedy.
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Malachi256
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can you enjoy the game as much when there are no "rewards"?
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Rewards are part of the fun for sure, and WoW is built heavily on the "achiever" mindset that seeks after rewards.
edit: And as far as the 1800 lolnor for TB, at first I just thought that Bliz was smokin' crack again and making decisions, but more recently I decided that just maybe they were trying to shove people into trying the conquest-earning activities more (since very few people are doing rated BGs at the moment, along with arenas being as not-so-popular as ever).
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Sprawl-zero1eye-
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can you enjoy the game as much when there are no "rewards"?
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The reward is part of the drive. For example, some of us really love our jobs, perhaps some wayyyy too much depending on what you do. However, would we still do it 40 hours a week, 48 weeks per year, if we weren't being paid whatever it is? Probably not.
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Pacorra
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can you enjoy the game as much when there are no "rewards"?
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When the gameplay itself is fun then that's all I need. Rewards to me become important to compensate the not-so-good times (bad pugs, excessive repetition, etc).
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Khreative
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can you enjoy the game as much when there are no "rewards"?
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I've failed to get in the past 25 or so TB's. So unfair! =(
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Auenwing
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Subject:
can you enjoy the game as much when there are no "rewards"?
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(A) WoW has always been a "loot-centric" design.
Character advancement is built around gear (loot).
That is the focus.
The first couple of times through new content, the fun is in the challenge (cites Raph Koster). Once "mastery" is achieved, boredom sets in.
After that, what keeps the player engaged?
Answer: see (A) above.
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Shenron_
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can you enjoy the game as much when there are no "rewards"?
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i guess that makes sense with them trying to encourage people to do the other tiers of content by making honor gear so easy to obtain. i had no idea populations were sparce in rated bgs as i don't touch that genre at all.
i would think a game should be fun on its own as opposed to the work analogy, but yeah getting rewarded does always feel good and add that extra oomph, especially in an rpg. many things in game on my 85 still are fun, but it just bothers me knowing that all these points are going to waste, especially since there WERE and WILL BE times in the future when i am starving for honor points to buy whatever newer gear is introduced. the thought that a few months from now when new gear comes out, i will have to do horribly boring stuff like alterac valley or arathi basin if i want to earn points quickly while right now i am just throwing these potential points away is a disgusting notion.
and as for getting into tol borad: i also have NEVER out of a dozen+ matches gotten into a battle from the queue. the trick is so stand outside the zone and move inside right as your side is about to win. have to time it such that you enter at the right time, otherwise it will port you out to your hearthstone and you can't make it back in time to try again. on my server, raid groups form outside the battle and try to camp it such that they are able to enter at the right time. the game being focused around this type of behavior is very pathetic, but at the same time when a reward so great as 1800 honor for 5 minutes of effort is dangled in front of someone (that actually needs it), how could they refuse?
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jojo263
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can you enjoy the game as much when there are no "rewards"?
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I got burned out just leveling all my alts from 80-85 by the 3rd char I was already sick of the new zones and instances. I still enjoy Northrend and all the instances out there. but for some reason I feel trapped when in comes to the 80-85 stuff.
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Spookysheep
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can you enjoy the game as much when there are no "rewards"?
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WoW doesn't offer anything but reward. Once those dry up, there is nothing left to WoW but a graphical chat room.
So, no.
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Auenwing
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can you enjoy the game as much when there are no "rewards"?
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jojo263 posted:
I got burned out just leveling all my alts from 80-85 by the 3rd char I was already sick of the new zones and instances. I still enjoy Northrend and all the instances out there. but for some reason I feel trapped when in comes to the 80-85 stuff.
Nice summary of how our guild feels about leveling in this expansion.
For us, we feel "trapped" because although there is some choice, there is a lot less of it. The zones feel smaller, cramped with more mobs/trees/objects and don't have that wide-open expanse. And the quest lines feel cattle-chute driven.
NOTE: this has NOTHING to do with "challenge" (for those who cannot view concerns about the game with a balanced viewpoint.)
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_Taebo_
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can you enjoy the game as much when there are no "rewards"?
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The rewards in WoW are fixed and dangled in front of you. Most everything is already on a vendor, you just need to grind the special currency to "buy" it.
I prefer the random loot like in AC1 and Diablo II. Anyone can get something good and I remember a lot of trading back in the day. Good stuff.
Now you put a bunch of cookie cutter loot ranked by color on the AH, log off, watch it with your iPhone app and get the gold sent to your character via in game email. Man, things have changed. LOL
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Shenron_
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can you enjoy the game as much when there are no "rewards"?
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i did notice that the quests are way too linear in cata new zones. for example in a zone i might only have like 3 quests total at once. i remember in the past i would have a full log all the time and could pick and choose the quests i liked.
i really only like to level new toons in classic though. i find it a lot more fun than bc/wotlk too. all my alts retire at 60ish
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TinMan52
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Subject:
can you enjoy the game as much when there are no "rewards"?
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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:
The reward is part of the drive. For example, some of us really love our jobs, perhaps some wayyyy too much depending on what you do. However, would we still do it 40 hours a week, 48 weeks per year, if we weren't being paid whatever it is? Probably not.
This is a flawed comparison.
Pacorra posted:
When the gameplay itself is fun then that's all I need. Rewards to me become important to compensate the not-so-good times (bad pugs, excessive repetition, etc).
Yes. You should be rewarded for playing, not playing to be rewarded.
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Liquid741
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can you enjoy the game as much when there are no "rewards"?
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been reading about Rift lately... 
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Broken_Kayfabe
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can you enjoy the game as much when there are no "rewards"?
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If people are talking negatively about cattle-chute type questing, they are not going to be happy in Rift unless beta changes dramatically.
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Malachi256
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can you enjoy the game as much when there are no "rewards"?
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TinMan52 posted:
Yes. You should be rewarded for playing, not playing to be rewarded.
I'd actually prefer to be both. I mean good grief, I've been playing video games for like 20 years and they almost always had some sort of in-game reward for progressing through the game, whether it's a high score, a level-up, a free life, a new gun, whatever. That's part of the fun.
And WoW does a great job at both - that's why some of us have literally been with this game for half a decade+.
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LadyGodiva.
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can you enjoy the game as much when there are no "rewards"?
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I can do PVP without rewards, but it's better with them. Usually if honor points aren't my reward, then topping the charts for kills or damage is how I get my kicks. Earning achievements is fun, too.
I do agree though that if you're not a raider, there's not much for the semi-casual player in the endgame - but that's always been the case.
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-Mithan-
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can you enjoy the game as much when there are no "rewards"?
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Rewards are what MAKE WoW fun, which IMO is why this game would fail on a micro transaction level.
Imagine if you could just buy the latest armor in the game using real life money?
It would kill the game, since WoW is about earning all that equipment.
The "free" PVP did the same to anybody who took advantage of it. Now that you have all the armor, what do you do?
Nothing.
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Spookysheep
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can you enjoy the game as much when there are no "rewards"?
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-Mithan- posted:
Rewards are what MAKE WoW fun, which IMO is why this game would fail on a micro transaction level.
Imagine if you could just buy the latest armor in the game using real life money?
It would kill the game, since WoW is about earning all that equipment.
The "free" PVP did the same to anybody who took advantage of it. Now that you have all the armor, what do you do?
Nothing.
Actually, I will be slaughtering every alliance that dares step foot outside the safety of Stormwind for a couple of weeks until they catch up with their own pvp gear
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TinMan52
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can you enjoy the game as much when there are no "rewards"?
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Malachi256 posted:
TinMan52 posted:
Yes. You should be rewarded for playing, not playing to be rewarded.
I've been playing video games for like 20 years and they almost always had some sort of in-game reward for progressing through the game, whether it's a high score, a level-up, a free life, a new gun, whatever. That's part of the fun.
I agree. For example, the leveling process in WoW is a lot of fun. Players quest, complete content/story arcs and receive rewards such as experience, gear, etc.
My issue is with the content such as dailies, rep grinds, gathering/transmuting/crafting and the PvP honor grind that reward players for mindless tasks and losing. In those cases, people are basically playing farmville ... logging in to play for the rewards rather than being rewarded in the process of doing something fun.
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Ferrydust
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can you enjoy the game as much when there are no "rewards"?
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I cannot enjoy the game without rewards.
They changed arena gear so that just the 'color' changes when you get a higher rating. I knew that wouldn't motivate me, and it hasn't.
Everyone got insta geared with Tol Barad and I can't even imagine why Blizzard did this. I am pretty sure it was intentional because if they didn't like the results they could have just stopped Tol barad until they had a better solution. No, they let it go until EVERYONE was geared.
As someone who JUST PVP's this has been a disaster for me. I have zero motivation to log in now except to BG on my low level alts. Even that seems pointless now though and the 30+ minute queue times are a disaster as well. I could be flying around Org for 1/2 an hour doing nothing or I could go watch TV. Hmm TV is sounding better all the time.
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IndridCole
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can you enjoy the game as much when there are no "rewards"?
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Shenron_ posted:
right now to me honor points have become nearly worthless. with the tol barad "fix" over the holidays, i have purchased every single pvp item on my main and all the pvp heirlooms i can use on any of my alts. a really horrible "fix" even if its temporary....completely devalued the honor system...but thats another topic.
somehow it has made pvp less fun. even if i don't do tol barad for the sick points, when i kill someone in world pvp or do a battleground it feels less fun since my character does not develop in the slightest.
same thing for justice points and pve. i have used justice points to purchase all the heirlooms i can use on my alts and already have ilvl 346+gear in all slots on my main. the points have become useless so feels like i should not run any more dungeons since i gain nothing again.
i am not casual but not hardcore either. somewhere in the middle. i am unable to commit the time for things like arena/rated bgs/raiding so it looks like i am at the ceiling already. at least during wotlk i could buy epic gems and sell them for a reasonable profit. but right now having both justice and honor at the cap with no way to profit from either is a little frustrating to me.
i know the game should be fun not just because of the rewards, but apparently rewards are fun for me. i think i am just greedy.
Is your guild level 25?
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Shenron_
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can you enjoy the game as much when there are no "rewards"?
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i remember how stupid i thought it was when each pvp/arena season it was just the exact same type of gear with stuff like +10 stamina or +20 ap. but i still went for it. feels kinda stupid when i think about it. i have fallen into blizzard's clutches at least to some degree and accept that kind of stuff as content.
and no my guild is level 1
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PallyDog
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can you enjoy the game as much when there are no "rewards"?
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Spookysheep posted:
-Mithan- posted:
Rewards are what MAKE WoW fun, which IMO is why this game would fail on a micro transaction level.
Imagine if you could just buy the latest armor in the game using real life money?
It would kill the game, since WoW is about earning all that equipment.
The "free" PVP did the same to anybody who took advantage of it. Now that you have all the armor, what do you do?
Nothing.
Actually, I will be slaughtering every alliance that dares step foot outside the safety of Stormwind for a couple of weeks until they catch up with their own pvp gear
LOL CAtch up with their own gear. Perfect way of putting it!! 
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Ugh_Lancelot
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can you enjoy the game as much when there are no "rewards"?
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Personally, yes, I can enjoy a game for no tangible rewards. Apparently lots of people can, thus the popularity of single-player games.
Not that I'm insinuating WoW could survive with out shiny purples as they've trained the user base to expect them.
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Cawlin
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can you enjoy the game as much when there are no "rewards"?
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Spookysheep posted:
WoW doesn't offer anything but reward. Once those dry up, there is nothing left to WoW but a graphical chat room.
So, no.
This.
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Elmador_MoK
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can you enjoy the game as much when there are no "rewards"?
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Only in PvP, and not for very long. Also NEW PvE content, but honestly once or twice is enough (quests, dungeons, raids, all of it).
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