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Topic: Rated BGs
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Malachi256
Posts:
2,454
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Nov 12, '02
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Subject:
Rated BGs
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-----signature-----
Explorer / Soloer+Small groups / Some PvP
MMOin' since UO beta, still waiting for UO 2.0 done right
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Jyiiga
Title: The MMO Snob
Posts:
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Mar 15, '01
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Real Post Cnt: 7,966
User ID: 74,827
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Subject:
Rated BGs
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It was bad enough to get two, three or five people together. Now people have to organize twice that or more. For an activity that can potentially bring out the worst in people.
I do raids and dungeons and other stuff with groups. When I pvp it is alone. It always has been. From AC to DAOC to SWG to WOW and everything in-between.. I enjoy big battle but, I prefer to handle it my way and on my terms.
I hate that Blizzard thinks everything PVP needs to be turned into a team sport.
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formerly_addicted
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Subject:
Rated BGs
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Jyiiga posted:
I hate that Blizzard thinks everything PVP needs to be turned into a team sport.
because its a MMORPG?
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RIFT----sometimes
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Jyiiga
Title: The MMO Snob
Posts:
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User ID: 74,827
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Subject:
Rated BGs
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formerly_addicted posted:
Jyiiga posted:
I hate that Blizzard thinks everything PVP needs to be turned into a team sport.
because its a MMORPG?
There is a difference. When I played older games like DAOC, I could group or not group. Both grouping and not grouping used the same reward system. If you were an effective group you had an advantage over individuals or unorganized groups. You also earned rewards faster as a group but, it was your choice.
With Blizzard they chop everything up into segments, they limit the participants and then put a special reward system in place. You can literally break up guilds this way. Sorry Timmy we only have room for 10 people, you're out of luck! In my opinion there is a difference between group activities and team sports.
I do not like having to remove people and say.. "Well X mage is better than you so, you are off our team next week. Sorry we want to be higher rank."
What I want is a pipe dream when it comes to Blizzard. We will never get any true Horde vs Alliance battles.
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Broken_Kayfabe
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User ID: 646,295
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Subject:
Rated BGs
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So in your "solo should give the rewards too" world, how do you deal with the afk slime that infested the BGs the last few years? Especially if the rewards for doing so were that much better as they would be now?
-----signature-----
Thanks, but it's been fun
Five more minutes then I'm done!
I've been saying that to myself since
...yesterday.
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Jyiiga
Title: The MMO Snob
Posts:
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Real Post Cnt: 7,966
User ID: 74,827
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Subject:
Rated BGs
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Broken_Kayfabe posted:
So in your "solo should give the rewards too" world, how do you deal with the afk slime that infested the BGs the last few years? Especially if the rewards for doing so were that much better as they would be now?
If you do less than X healing or X damage. No reward.
If you never move out of the starting area. No reward.
If you have less than X HKs. No reward.
Come on really.. There are so many ways to fix the AFKing issues.
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Broken_Kayfabe
Posts:
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Subject:
Rated BGs
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Really? Because none of those would work at all.
1. How do you measure what is "allowed" healing or damage in games that can be anything from 3 to 45 minutes long? If you make it too low, it is trivial for bots to accomplish it, too high and you'll have people complaining that they didn't make the cut. Some people do critically important things in BG, like guard nodes, that potentially give nothing at all.
2. This should be the way it is right now, but honestly moving out of the starting area is so trivial it shouldn't be seriously considered as a solution by any sane person.
3. Measuring contribution by HKs would lead to two things - everyone fighting on the roads ignoring the objectives, and the bots autofollowing everyone.
I do not think you have thought your "solo pvpers should get the rewards tooooo!" complaint through very well. Until the system is fixed, it's too easy to exploit solo (and is in fact the reason they made the rated game full group in the first place).
-----signature-----
Thanks, but it's been fun
Five more minutes then I'm done!
I've been saying that to myself since
...yesterday.
- from "Has anybody seen my corpse". Man Everquest rocked back in the day...
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Trigeminal
Title: Drill, Fill, Bill
Posts:
11,233
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Subject:
Rated BGs
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My first week (last week) was just random people thrown together from the guild. This week we are starting a regular group and we all have pvp gear. Should have a little more success than the 3-3 we were last week.
-----signature-----
PvPing since 1975
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kyrv
Title: Lord Logicus
Posts:
14,420
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Jan 31, '02
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User ID: 639,081
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Subject:
Rated BGs
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Jyiiga posted:
It was bad enough to get two, three or five people together. Now people have to organize twice that or more. For an activity that can potentially bring out the worst in people.
I do raids and dungeons and other stuff with groups. When I pvp it is alone. It always has been. From AC to DAOC to SWG to WOW and everything in-between.. I enjoy big battle but, I prefer to handle it my way and on my terms.
I hate that Blizzard thinks everything PVP needs to be turned into a team sport.
Couldn't agree more. PvP was always something you could do any time, so was great when your friends aren't on or are already doing something else.
Have the AFKers organized yet? They can do rated BGs. Hilarity ensues.
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CO, LOTRO, RoM, PWI, CoH
Dragon Age
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Jyiiga
Title: The MMO Snob
Posts:
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Registered:
Mar 15, '01
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Real Post Cnt: 7,966
User ID: 74,827
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Subject:
Rated BGs
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Broken_Kayfabe posted:
Really? Because none of those would work at all.
1. How do you measure what is "allowed" healing or damage in games that can be anything from 3 to 45 minutes long? If you make it too low, it is trivial for bots to accomplish it, too high and you'll have people complaining that they didn't make the cut. Some people do critically important things in BG, like guard nodes, that potentially give nothing at all.
2. This should be the way it is right now, but honestly moving out of the starting area is so trivial it shouldn't be seriously considered as a solution by any sane person.
3. Measuring contribution by HKs would lead to two things - everyone fighting on the roads ignoring the objectives, and the bots autofollowing everyone.
I do not think you have thought your "solo pvpers should get the rewards tooooo!" complaint through very well. Until the system is fixed, it's too easy to exploit solo (and is in fact the reason they made the rated game full group in the first place).
I hear a lot about bots and afkers. I agree that those things need to be controlled. However, I do not think everyone else needs to be punished for such things. I see a lot less bots than I have seen in the past. However, it is not uncommon to still see three or four people standing in the starting area. I believe you dismiss simple fixes and ideas to quickly. Yes, there should be no award given to those that never leave the starting area. There should be no award given to those that have zero healing and zero damage in a match.
Solo pvpers should get rewards. Why is there a problem with this? Why can those rewards not take longer to earn and yet, still be on par with rewards that groups of people earn in a shorter time frame? What exactly do you have against casual players?
Sure, I do not have all the solutions. I just think Blizzard is very narrow minded when it comes to pvp.
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Elmador_MoK
Title: Voice of Mostly-Reason
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Subject:
Rated BGs
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Myself and all my friends (our guild of about 8 actives) have yet to be able to try once, despite being the #1 reason most of us returned. Next week when its 10 again we are gonna try with some pugs and cross our fingers.
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He who laughs last thinks slowest. http://www.browncoats.com/
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Shenron_
Posts:
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Dec 8, '02
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User ID: 746,590
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Subject:
Rated BGs
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thats why i don't like bgs - i want to reap the rewards of what i do. if i kill someone i don't want to share points with the naked guy running around yelling stuff. if i cap or defend the flag i don't want the afker at the graveyard to share the spoils with me.
for me, who has played previous pvp mmos like daoc, its really twisted that WoW rewards are all about time spent and not on your performance. i suppose rated bgs are a step to mitigate that, however i do not have the time to do any sort of organized event like that. i can't devote hours a week at a specific time to group with these people...i like to log on and off on a whim.
i could do that in daoc.
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st0rmie
Posts:
5,783
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Apr 20, '05
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Subject:
Rated BGs
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Jyiiga posted:
Solo pvpers should get rewards. Why is there a problem with this? Why can those rewards not take longer to earn and yet, still be on par with rewards that groups of people earn in a shorter time frame?
Solo PvPers DO get rewards. These rewards are one tier lower than the rewards you get for forming an organized team and competing against organized opposition. Just as the rewards you get for queueing for a PUG in the dungeonfinder are one tier lower than the rewards you get for forming an organized team and beating raid content.
Got a problem with that? If so, the problem is your sense of entitlement, not the game design. Your problem is not that you don't get rewards - since, as has been demonstrated, you do - it's the fact that someone else, making a greater effort, against a more difficult task, gets something better. Your problem is your own jealousy, not Blizzard's design.
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Shenron_
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Subject:
Rated BGs
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well i can't speak for him but i think the problem is many people (including myself) don't consider it more difficult to do things like rated bgs or arenas compared to other types of pvp. thats why many people laughed when blizzard called arena an e-sport. it does take effort in that you have to spend more hours organizing teams and such tho of course. its more of a mundane effort though in my eyes.
anyways i know that there will always be different tiers of rewards in a mmo like WoW...gotta have different levels of treadmills for people to walk to consume more time and keep them playing. would be nice if there were a few solo gear rewards that were comparable to the team ones tho, especially considering that solo play is a huge part of the game even for those that do the team stuff also.
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Malachi256
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Subject:
Rated BGs
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For me this just falls into the same category as raiding - if I had a group of friends large enough who I enjoyed spending time with, who had the same schedule as me, and who were of roughly the same skill level, then I would probably enjoy this greatly...
But as it is, I would definitely have to join a bunch of strangers, and I just can't imagine the experience being a good one.
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Explorer / Soloer+Small groups / Some PvP
MMOin' since UO beta, still waiting for UO 2.0 done right
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Jyiiga
Title: The MMO Snob
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Mar 15, '01
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Subject:
Rated BGs
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Shenron_ posted:
well i can't speak for him but i think the problem is many people (including myself) don't consider it more difficult to do things like rated bgs or arenas compared to other types of pvp. thats why many people laughed when blizzard called arena an e-sport. it does take effort in that you have to spend more hours organizing teams and such tho of course. its more of a mundane effort though in my eyes.
anyways i know that there will always be different tiers of rewards in a mmo like WoW...gotta have different levels of treadmills for people to walk to consume more time and keep them playing. would be nice if there were a few solo gear rewards that were comparable to the team ones tho, especially considering that solo play is a huge part of the game even for those that do the team stuff also.
Pretty much this. Raid content in this game has never been hard. Back in vanilla WOW I was doing it daily. Spending hours on hours in Molten Core and BWL with 39 other people. Doing the same boring predictable battles again and again. They were never hard. The only thing that ever made them hard was the fact that good players have to carry the bad players. After completing a full tier 1 and tier 2 set, I decided it was not worth my time.
I come from times past when my skill in small groups and solo play paid off. People think just because they got a group together they are somehow better than the rest of us. So I think in a way this whole entitlement crap people throw in my face works both ways.
I still fail to see why everyone blows up when the casuals players want the same stuff yet, are willing to work much longer to gain it.. While being perfectly fine with the raiders getting quick access to it.
Polls like this greatly reflect the overall attitude toward Rated Arena and Rated BG play.
EDIT BOMB!
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GutterSludge
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Subject:
Rated BGs
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I still find it hilarious that pillar humping and afk'ing BG's give better rewards than world PVP.
Stormie, it isn't about entitlement. It isn't about jealousy. It is all about the truth of the matter.
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Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
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Groooovechampion
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Subject:
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I agree with Jyiiga's comments and playstyle. Just because you want to pvp alone doesn't automatically me you are fail for the entire time.
To be honest, most of the time my team "tends to kill me". From an arrogant and personal perspective: Buddies lead fire upon me, I try to save them and I get killed, I see them coming as backup but as soon they see +1 enemy, they turn around.
The list goes on and when you've played Daoc, WoW and other games, you learn to make your personal Murphy's Laws.
Nevertheless, Blizzard has always said something about "giving players the freedom for their playstyle" yet they break it in the end after all.
There are tons of ways afking could be have been fixed, starting with the fact about players posting creative/effective/plausible suggestions on the official boards but it is likely Blizz didn't really see it due to everybody giving their opinion.
It's pretty much like that scene in Bruce Allmighty when Jim Carrey was reading the wishes of the prayers. Can't fulfill them all.
edit:
There's something funny about Arena that I must admit - Something that is somewhat hillarious and macabre.
I agree that the Arena = Esport crap really is something I wish I could kick Blizz in the nuts for; Especially for arranging nerfs and fixes solely by watching Arena play. That was bullcrap.
However, I remember in Daoc when people were all fancy about duelling and when lvl50 PVP in ToA slowly got out of hand, I remember wishing for a "Group duelling" system.
Apparently, my wish was heard by the game gods and came true as the abomination of Arena.
Damn, hehe.
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Trigeminal
Title: Drill, Fill, Bill
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Subject:
Rated BGs
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Three weeks of rated BGs and you get a free epic weapon. Next week will be my third week. I'll have enough conquest points for 2H axe and thrown. I will go from my current 3009 resilience to 3309 resilience.
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PvPing since 1975
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