Arcilite_I
Title: VN's Most Wanted
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Got my mage into BRC this morning
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Four runs, different groups each time. Not a single wipe, three deaths total. I honestly don't see what all the fuss is about as far as challenge. If you think this dungeon is difficult, you should change your name to Larry O'Leary
EDIT: I'm sure I'm stating the obvious, but none of the deaths were mine.
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Bremen_Gaheris
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Got my mage into BRC this morning
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I am not sure what the fuss is about either, honestly. The dungeons are all extremely easy, especially once you figure out the "gimick" or trick to each trash pull/boss. Matter of fact, they are actually more boring than WOTLK dungeons in my opinion because they are FAR longer in duration and take longer to complete.
The folks that are fussing legitimately though are usually talking about the characters being gimped to artificially make the dungeons SEEM harder. I am in this group. I hate the new healing model because it didn't institute a challenge, it just made healing boring, irritating, and feel weak. DPS have the same issues because of ridiculous scaling on the way to 85.
Matter of fact, all the scrub bads claiming that the new dungeons are "challenging" and fun are the real bads/scrubs/WOTLK babies. They were the ones spamming one spell over and over again being powered through raids by better players screaming about how "boring" it was. They love the new healing model especially since it is just the same as WOTLK, for them, in that they get to spam one key over and over again.
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Unstruck
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Got my mage into BRC this morning
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Arc, was this on heroic mode? I think that's where most of the concern stems from, though I haven't done heroic yet myself.
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Arcilite_I
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Got my mage into BRC this morning
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Unstruck posted:
Arc, was this on heroic mode? I think that's where most of the concern stems from, though I haven't done heroic yet myself.
Negative, regular.
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Blind-Seer
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Got my mage into BRC this morning
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There was never any fuss about the regular dungeons. The regular dungeons are ezmode next to the hcs. Ofcourse a lot depends on who you group with, and if people know the tacts. But the hcs are very unforgiving about you making mistakes.
For example, in regular Grim Batol I could stand in boss aoe and not die. Try the same in hc and you are dead and will probably drag your group down with you.
I pug hc and in the first week I had many groups fall apart on the first boss. A group that finishes a hc can easily spend 2 hours + in there.
If you run with a solid guild group, you could ofcourse pretty fast put the hcs on farm. But pug them at your own peril. :P
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Arcilite_I
Title: VN's Most Wanted
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Got my mage into BRC this morning
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Yeah my guild is wicked small, so I pug a ton.
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Ayadread
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Got my mage into BRC this morning
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The difference in damage taken between normal and heroic is pretty big. Example, first boss in Grim Batol I can just grab all of the adds (troggs) when they come and continue on tanking. On heroic, if the purple trogg is anywhere even remotely close to me when he blows up it's game over. Now imagine trying to get a LFD dps to kite and kill the trogg away from the tank...
On a difficulty level, I would agree that the new dungeons are all easy once you learn the gimmick and how to avoid the avoidable damage (which there is a lot of in cata dungeons). However, unless you're running with a dedicated group, it is damn near borderline impossible to find pugs (i.e. dungeon finder groups) with people who know how to avoid all of the avoidable splash damage. So if you run in a group where people don't stand in stuff, avoid dumb damage, and interrupt the boss abilities that MUST be interrupted, then yes it is very easy. Anyone who pugs a lot is going to have a hard time finding this on a regular basis.
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Arcilite_I
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Got my mage into BRC this morning
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Ayadread posted:
The difference in damage taken between normal and heroic is pretty big. Example, first boss in Grim Batol I can just grab all of the adds (troggs) when they come and continue on tanking. On heroic, if the purple trogg is anywhere even remotely close to me when he blows up it's game over. Now imagine trying to get a LFD dps to kite and kill the trogg away from the tank...
On a difficulty level, I would agree that the new dungeons are all easy once you learn the gimmick and how to avoid the avoidable damage (which there is a lot of in cata dungeons). However, unless you're running with a dedicated group, it is damn near borderline impossible to find pugs (i.e. dungeon finder groups) with people who know how to avoid all of the avoidable splash damage. So if you run in a group where people don't stand in stuff, avoid dumb damage, and interrupt the boss abilities that MUST be interrupted, then yes it is very easy. Anyone who pugs a lot is going to have a hard time finding this on a regular basis.
Unless that one person, me, is fairly awesome and makes up for the other two idiot dps. But I see your point.
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st0rmie
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Got my mage into BRC this morning
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Ayadread posted:
The difference in damage taken between normal and heroic is pretty big.
And additionally, all of the scaling factors that have caused people to complain only come into play as you progress from 80 to 85. Nobody ever even hinted that the level 80-81 normal mode instances were overly difficult.
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vn_cuch
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Got my mage into BRC this morning
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Normals - very very forgiving. I do not see them as an issue.
Heroics, once you have a "smart" group and can adapt, they are also not that bad.Some of the packs and bosses have their "strat". I am pugging every night for the last 10 days or so and the groups (upto now) have been mostly very good. however I do think those who were first in the heroics are typically the more savvy. In the last days, I have seen more people who are (how should I say)....."less adaptable".
No matter, if you explain the strat good enough and walk them through, it does work (mostly)....or failing that let em die and the rest of the group can finish 
As to the CC aspect, I already see that we are doing LESS CC now than in the first days, as tank hps are increasing, it is reverting back (slightly) to AE with a target priority, rather than CC everything.
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_Kewk_
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Got my mage into BRC this morning
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Arcilite_I posted:
Negative, regular.
lol?
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The_Korrigan
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Got my mage into BRC this morning
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Regulars are AOE facerolls. Try heroic.
Actually, try to AOE faceroll in an heroic... 
Ayadread posted:
The difference in damage taken between normal and heroic is pretty big. Example, first boss in Grim Batol I can just grab all of the adds (troggs) when they come and continue on tanking. On heroic, if the purple trogg is anywhere even remotely close to me when he blows up it's game over. Now imagine trying to get a LFD dps to kite and kill the trogg away from the tank...
On a difficulty level, I would agree that the new dungeons are all easy once you learn the gimmick and how to avoid the avoidable damage (which there is a lot of in cata dungeons). However, unless you're running with a dedicated group, it is damn near borderline impossible to find pugs (i.e. dungeon finder groups) with people who know how to avoid all of the avoidable splash damage. So if you run in a group where people don't stand in stuff, avoid dumb damage, and interrupt the boss abilities that MUST be interrupted, then yes it is very easy. Anyone who pugs a lot is going to have a hard time finding this on a regular basis.
This sums it up pretty well...
In my opinion, the heroic dungeons are quite well tuned, hard enough that any random PUG can't just jump in and AOE-faceroll them and that a dedicated group can have good fun. Some instances/bosses are harder than others too. I just hope Blizzard won't cater to the whiners and let them learn to play instead of nerfing the dungeons...
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Ansithe
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Got my mage into BRC this morning
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lol wtf.. you bragged about this and it turns out it was normal. Monkeys can do normal.
Let see you try this on heroic with pugs. I dare you. Let see if you can successfuly do 4 random heroics in a row without issue.
I double dare!
Overall though heroics is not that difficult if the group knows the boss fights. Trash mobs are easy with proper cc'in. 2 or 3 cc make trash mobs trivial in heroic. Boss fights on the other hand are a different thing. 1 kill abilities, etc. Imo its up to the tank to know the fight and to let people know their role.
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vn_cuch
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Got my mage into BRC this morning
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Tank needs to know his job for sure.
but Healers also need to be on the ball...
and I LIKE that with the heroics, DPS also need to alert and "fast on their feet". Lazy dps days are gone (for now at least). Personally, I love the new heroics and hope they do not get dumbed down.
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Kriegprojekt
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Got my mage into BRC this morning
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Arc...regulars are very easy. When you get into heroics, I think you might be a bit (very slightly) frustrated the first few runs, especially with 329 geared peeps who dont know the dungeon/want to be carried.
I have an extremely great guild who runs heroics constantly, so its not an issue in the new dungeons for us but I can only imagine what DF groups are feeling.
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-Kruugar-
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Got my mage into BRC this morning
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I think if we tell him that the problem is heroic, for the 10th time, we won't need anyone to do it anymore.
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Gidgiddoni
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Got my mage into BRC this morning
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The problem isn't really heroic -vs- regular. Its PuG tards -vs- people who take a moment to explain something, or, better yet, guild groups.
If you have a good functional guild, that works together to do normals and gather some gear, then moves on to heroics ... then you are in a totally different game than the folks who PuG these things. Queues for normals as DPS can be 30-45 minutes, then you are tossed into a dungeon you might never have seen before. And, god forbid, anybody ask a question.
If you are lucky, you might get with a group where most of the people are something like patient. But don't count on it.
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Kriegprojekt
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Got my mage into BRC this morning
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-Kruugar- posted:
I think if we tell him that the problem is heroic, for the 10th time, we won't need anyone to do it anymore.
I only counted seven.
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Arcilite_I
Title: VN's Most Wanted
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Got my mage into BRC this morning
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Can anyone verify if heroics are harder?
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siujoey
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Got my mage into BRC this morning
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Arcilite_I posted:
Can anyone verify if heroics are harder?
I think heroics are harder than the regular dungeon versions. Just FYI.
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Unstruck
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Got my mage into BRC this morning
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Arcilite_I posted:
Can anyone verify if heroics are harder?
Nice. 
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o-0-Core-0-o
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Got my mage into BRC this morning
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There are still quite a few folks that don't quite get how to run instances...or even there class  that can throw a wrench into the works for sure. You are right, heroics are fairly easy if everyone pulls their weight in the group.
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