Boone-Eldar
Title: Infallible
Posts:
16,589
Registered:
Dec 28, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 16,173
User ID: 580,486
|
Subject:
So that was a first...
|
If you don't want to read the while story skip to the end.
Queued for regular random. I am playing a Prot Pally in Cata so I get instant queued as normal. Join a dungeon in progress and it is Grim Batol. Warning flags go off as the original tank must have dropped and it is the trash packs right after the first boss.
So we get through the first easy trash pack and then the hunter in the group shoots the 2nd boss as it paths in our direction on accident. No big deal, I pick it up and we kill it easily. So on the next trash pack with 3 casters and the giant I tell the group I am going to line of sight pull it back and show them where to stack so the casters group up nicely. Well they do not listen of course and the casters are sitting back nuking away. I try to get them all corralled but its a nightmare. Neither the Hunter nor Mage bother to CC the casters, just sit there and get nuked. Both the Hunter and Mage die but we kill the trash pack. So the next identical pack I explain again where to stand so I can los pull them to us and group them up nicely. They of course don't listen and a repeat of the first trash group happens and then... I get kicked from the group. First time I have ever been kicked from a group. I lold.
-----signature-----
Seriously? 
|
|
Link to this post
|
Arunne
Title: The Anonymous
Posts:
2,548
Registered:
Nov 3, '03
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 2,526
User ID: 852,899
|
Subject:
So that was a first...
|
A guildy had a similar experience. All the DPS who put up with rage tanks in WOTLK are striking back now i guess.
The best part is that his group said to him right before they kicked him... "You must have started tanking during WOTLK".
Thats our running guild joke now if someone messes up in an instance. You know if a dps gets themself killed, we go, damn healer what happened, did you start healing during wrath?!?!
-----signature-----
"Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be"
"I may not agree with what you say, but I respect your right to be punished for it."
|
|
Link to this post
|
Urk_VN
Title: Orderly Randomizer
Posts:
8,320
Registered:
Oct 30, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 7,922
User ID: 733,088
|
Subject:
So that was a first...
|
|
Yeah, I've been hearing horror stories like this from the game and various boards. I think people don't really know how to CC anymore, since WOTLK encouraged aoeing and DPSing stuff down as fast as possible.
-----signature-----
(none)
|
|
Link to this post
|
Boone-Eldar
Title: Infallible
Posts:
16,589
Registered:
Dec 28, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 16,173
User ID: 580,486
|
Subject:
So that was a first...
|
lol I was just confused. At first I questioned whether it was me who messed up, as I don't have a ton of experience with the dungeon. It was only my 3rd time running it. But then I reminded myself that I just watched the DPS just standing there as they got nuked instead of trying to get the mobs to come to us via los or even cc the mob that was nuking them and then it was somehow my fault that they died.
The best part is I was leading the group in DPS and had 45% of the total damage done as the tank...
-----signature-----
Seriously?
|
|
Link to this post
|
Spookysheep
Title: Lieker of Cheese
Posts:
21,595
Registered:
Jan 9, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 21,166
User ID: 601,475
|
Subject:
So that was a first...
|
I have instant queues, don't care if idiot DPS kick me.
So far it has been pretty easy on normals though.
-----signature-----
I liek cheese
Pirates > Ninjas
.....................................
|
|
Link to this post
|
Auenwing
Title: straightface
Posts:
8,837
Registered:
Dec 27, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 8,717
User ID: 752,779
|
Subject:
So that was a first...
|
It's amazing how many (new) players do not know what "corner pulling" is. It's older than WoW.
and lol with Arunne. "started in wrath?" is now the new "got your license from a drugstore?"!
-----signature-----
There are those who play tank classes, and those that tank.
The weapon is only as good as the person wielding it.
Free advice is often worth what you pay for it: nothing.
|
|
Link to this post
|
--Syrus--
Posts:
7,711
Registered:
Dec 2, '03
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 7,639
User ID: 863,847
|
Subject:
So that was a first...
|
I have started employing all my old tactics even as I level my Pally up. Maybe it will help some of these players I group with to get used to some of these tactics.
I was just tanking Stratholme the other day and I pull both the spider and the wraith boss around the cornder because they start with ranged attacks and If I run right up to the Zig I line of sight myself from the healer.
Most groups so far have liked these and various other old school tactics, have gotton quite a few compliments. Its funny, I'm using basic basic skills and these new players think they are some advanced magic tanking tactics.
-----signature-----
Common Sense is a myth..
Its Hub. 10 week ban for anybody who disagrees. -Mithan-
|
|
Link to this post
|
Riktor_before_IGN
Posts:
2,153
Registered:
Dec 20, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 2,091
User ID: 559,276
|
Subject:
So that was a first...
|
I've been playing a Worgen druid casually since I downloaded Catacylsm and for what it is worth I've queued as all roles since I escaped the starting area and although I would have expected to be tanking 90% of the time, it's actually put me as healing about 3 out of 4 times. More so the higher in level I go. Never has it ever put me in as dps to noone's surprise.(Side note: I've played the other 3 tanking classes to 80 etc etc, but druid tanking is by far the least fun, least interactive version in my opinion)
Healing seems to be the role noone wants to be stuck with anymore or maybe just people are so used to hearing about the instant queues as a tank more people have gone with that role. This is especially true for 80-85 play. Healing for the new levels does admittedly suck hard when everyone is still wearing their 80 gear, but not that bad once people have done some gearing up and if smart pulling and CC is used is actually right at that sweet spot of moderately difficult and not hair-pullingly stressful or mind-numbling dull.
As far as quality of play on the road back up from the beginning- Yes DPS 9 times out of 10 do everything they can to make it harder then it needs to be if not being borderline retarded. Tanks have been all over the place from full guild heirloom geared out using all abilities and pulling smart all while doing half total damage of the group that I don't need to do anything other then keep rejuvenation up on them to ungeared dps spec people that may or may not have a shield or a clue. Once I got up to DK starting levels with the druid its been lots of fun repeatedly trying to explain to all the worgen dks why they shouldn't dps in blood presence.
In a nutshell its been like this- Last night queued and immediately entered Blood Furnace as a healer, before everyone had loaded in the DK tank in mostly starter area gear ran ahead and pulled the entire 1st room and ran up the stairs to get more and died within 10 seconds while I had 3 HoTs on him and was chain casting healing touch/instants. So as usual I keep myself and the dps alive to kill everything else with no time to stop and revive him. Then he complained that he runs every heroic like that so what's my problem.
When I said, "yeah running trivial heroics at 80 in ICC raid gear is a different story." I was kicked. Which certainly made me happy as I was able to move on to a decent group and another level.
Long story short Cataclysm has sped up and dumbed down WoW even further still and yet WoW still takes too long and is too complex for about half the ADHD cases playing it.
-----signature-----
(none)
|
|
Link to this post
|
Fedup23
Posts:
2,271
Registered:
Jul 14, '06
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 2,265
User ID: 1,155,204
|
Subject:
So that was a first...
|
We need more "I was the good player in a bad group" stories!!! 
j/k sorry for your loss.
-----signature-----
(none)
|
|
Link to this post
|
Deionnara
Posts:
9,463
Registered:
Dec 28, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 9,321
User ID: 580,237
|
Subject:
So that was a first...
|
Bad tank is bad
So on a serious note : are we still the bottleneck for LFD? I was afraid that with the all healer complaints they would become more scarce.
I didn't even plan on queing up until I hit 85 and level BS/JC enough that I am ready for normals with self crafted gear.
-----signature-----
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Stormreaver&n=Nadja People climbing up the walls Breaking all of my wretched dolls Fingernails they scratch outside In the attic is where I'll hide
|
|
Link to this post
|
Grimlik
Posts:
4,874
Registered:
Mar 9, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,733
User ID: 902,543
|
Subject:
So that was a first...
|
Funny
I usually start out now with a disclaimer. Learn to CC or die - I won't be held responsible for lack of adapting to the situation.
Its amazing how a great many DPS'ers simply can't follow directions.
-----signature-----
Grimlik Amberdrake
Current game: Real Life Patch 2.0
Sheep Slayer
Waiting for something new and inventive and fun
|
|
Link to this post
|
Grimlik
Posts:
4,874
Registered:
Mar 9, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 4,733
User ID: 902,543
|
Subject:
So that was a first...
|
Riktor_before_IGN posted:
Long story short Cataclysm has sped up and dumbed down WoW even further still and yet WoW still takes too long and is too complex for about half the ADHD cases playing it.
I wouldn't say anything in WoW was more dumbed down than it was in wrath. Seems they have hit their equilibrium.
The requirement to actually use your head in Dungeons now is a step away from that policy.
Its to bad the majority of the playerbase seems to have missed all the memo's from beta on this subject.
-----signature-----
Grimlik Amberdrake
Current game: Real Life Patch 2.0
Sheep Slayer
Waiting for something new and inventive and fun
|
|
Link to this post
|
Ugh_Lancelot
Title: Ooo...bouncy!
Posts:
5,492
Registered:
Jun 17, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 5,446
User ID: 689,383
|
Subject:
So that was a first...
|
Auenwing posted:
It's amazing how many (new) players do not know what "corner pulling" is. It's older than WoW.
Agreed. Though I can see there being people who have never used the method before, especially considering the playstyles in BC/WotLK being mostly AOE-fests. If they can't get the concept of LOS'ing casters after one explanation, though, good riddance.
-----signature-----
WoW and DAoC - Too many alts to count
Charter Member - Altaholics Anonymous
|
|
Link to this post
|
Boone-Eldar
Title: Infallible
Posts:
16,589
Registered:
Dec 28, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 16,173
User ID: 580,486
|
Subject:
So that was a first...
|
Fedup23 posted:
We need more "I was the good player in a bad group" stories!!!
j/k sorry for your loss.
The healer was pretty good too. The dps all sucked.
-----signature-----
Seriously?
|
|
Link to this post
|
Foojo
Posts:
2,429
Registered:
Aug 18, '08
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 2,417
User ID: 1,315,578
|
Subject:
So that was a first...
|
As long as we are telling grouping stories, I was grouped with a shaman that hopped all over the place, had a sexual oriented name and guild tag, and would pull when things went too slow for him, or aggro extra groups. I mean the guy was down right annoying at first sight. He was a good healer though, and would get quick heals on the dps when AE damaged us and such stuff. I swear he was like a gerbil on crack, but since he was a good healer, what the heck I can put up with it 
-----signature-----
...
|
|
Link to this post
|
Spookysheep
Title: Lieker of Cheese
Posts:
21,595
Registered:
Jan 9, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 21,166
User ID: 601,475
|
Subject:
So that was a first...
|
|
Did you just reference gerbils as a freudian slip?
-----signature-----
I liek cheese
Pirates > Ninjas
.....................................
|
|
Link to this post
|
Foojo
Posts:
2,429
Registered:
Aug 18, '08
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 2,417
User ID: 1,315,578
|
Subject:
So that was a first...
|
I think you might be in the gutter more than me. As I don't get the gerbil reference, sure I watched Lemmiwinks on south park, but I still don't get the reference.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM9lpP51LPw
-----signature-----
...
|
|
Link to this post
|
Gr0uch0Marx
Posts:
22
Registered:
Dec 20, '10
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 22
User ID: 1,409,691
|
Subject:
So that was a first...
|
I don't know that you can fault players in all of this.
CC was pretty much the bread and butter of Vanilla/BC dungeons. Remember MgT? CC on steroids! WOLTK threw all of that out with the new mantra "bring the player not the class", followed by dungeons with less trash, didn't require CC and were eventually available with two clicks of a mouse anywhere in the world on-demand. What came was people queuing as tank/healer to beat the timer who never tanked or healed before and the non-use of marks, since everything could be AoE tanked. I remember many times that people would get lost when they died in an ICC dungeon, because...gasp: they never been there in the real world before! Though I can't find the quote now, I remember a few years ago someone commenting on the lack of trash in heroics and someone from Blizzard commenting something along the lines of "what, you think more trash makes a dungeon more interesting? Many we should put loads and loads of trash in it then!"
Now comes Cataclysm and now the developers have had a change of heart. They went back from the 15 minute loot shoots to hard hitting trash that must be CCed(I have a trial account, so I have to go on the account of what other people are saying about the diffculty of the new heroics). That's one thing that really annoys the hell out of me is that just when I learn how to play my character, Blizzard completely changes it up the next expansion just to make it "exciting and new".
We learned in BC A and B didn't work so hot....we learned in WOTLK that C and D didn't work so hot...don't you remember reading this statement in the developer interviews every time a new expansion hits? It almost seems we have "bipolar" expansions: completely reverse what was done in the previous expansion! If my prediction is correct, we should have a "WOTLK" or "easy" expansion coming up in 2012.
Personally, I think Blizzard got it mostly right in BC (I still love Shadow Labs!). My guess for the next solution to this dungeon problem will be having the dungeon scale to the gear of the players. The better the gear, the harder the dungeon and the better the rewards. On this system, you could open up every dungeon for a level 90 and you would have your pick of 60 dungeons to choose to run.
-----signature-----
(none)
|
|
Link to this post
|
Shenron_
Posts:
8,665
Registered:
Dec 8, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 6,513
User ID: 746,590
|
Subject:
So that was a first...
|
they make dungeons too accessable to the masses with dungeon finder - anyone can queue up no matter how bad, unintelligent, unsocial, etc. that they are. to expect the majority of these pick up groups to be able to successfully handle anything challenging is ludicrous.
in the old days people knew each other and formed groups (usually from the same guild and that communicated via vent or whatever) so they had less problems. those that couldn't just never got to play that content.
-----signature-----
(none)
|
|
Link to this post
|
Liquid741
Title: VN Sensei
Posts:
5,106
Registered:
Dec 16, '06
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 5,095
User ID: 1,191,724
|
Subject:
So that was a first...
|
|
all the H randoms i have been rolling i have noticed more bad tanks then good ones. the healers so far have been standing out.
-----signature-----
April 26th..the day the future will be known...NFL draft.  I'd rather be kicked in the face then be a Patriots fan! 
|
|
Link to this post
|
Boone-Eldar
Title: Infallible
Posts:
16,589
Registered:
Dec 28, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 16,173
User ID: 580,486
|
Subject:
So that was a first...
|
Liquid741 posted:
all the H randoms i have been rolling i have noticed more bad tanks then good ones. the healers so far have been standing out.
Define a bad tank.
-----signature-----
Seriously?
|
|
Link to this post
|
