FakePlastickZombie
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Auenwing
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Hi. My name is Auenwing and I have a confession.
I still think "CC" even while AoEing in TBC and LK.
It's just that "built in" to how I play.
Just like keeping an eye on health bars of the group no matter what role I am.
And protecting healers (even if I'm DPSing.)
It's automatic.
Whether Blizz keeps CC as an important part of endgame or not, that part of my gaming brain is hard-wired.
And I will still be strategizing kill order before the pull just in case the AoE fails.
/sits back down
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Auenwing
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And I know I'm not the only one.
/high fives the VN board
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Arcilite_I
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Auenwing posted:
Hi. My name is Auenwing and I have a confession.
I still think "CC" even while AoEing in TBC and LK.
It's just that "built in" to how I play.
Just like keeping an eye on health bars of the group no matter what role I am.
And protecting healers (even if I'm DPSing.)
It's automatic.
Whether Blizz keeps CC as an important part of endgame or not, that part of my gaming brain is hard-wired.
And I will still be strategizing kill order before the pull just in case the AoE fails.
/sits back down
My name is Arcilite and ummm.....well....what she said!
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Auenwing
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Dedicated CC class in PvP?
Outrageous! Why, that's like having a beefy sorta viking melee class that uh is basically added to a swat group because for some reason it can throw AoE CC at the enemy that kinda well, looks like these giant hammers that come down and hit players over the head...and keeps 'em stunned like forever while er.. lightning strikes 'em ... um...
Hmmm.. I dunno. Anybody else wanna comment on that?
Or maybe the concept that EVERY class (healer, tank, DPS) can CC, which makes PvP,er PVE, yeah, PVE! even more interesting... oh.. wait...
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Auenwing
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Thought I'd actually sorta answer the question....
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kyrv
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Auenwing posted:
And I know I'm not the only one.
/high fives the VN board
You are not the only one.
Several people here (not me) did predict massive complaints on the 'new' CC stuff and that Blizz would cave. Will be interesting to follow this.
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Elmador_MoK
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I don't mind CC in Heroics, it even makes it more fun. My biggest complaint about heroics (at the moment; this could change with time) is just how long they take.
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Ursa_Major
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I remember when
...hunters chain trapped
...druids used hibernate
...mages polymorphed
...priests shackled
...locks banished
CC brings more dynamics to fights and requires at least a minimal level of team work. Most players now have no clue what cc is for aside from maybe (read maybe) pvp'ers. I've met a lot of people that had no clue what abilities their classes had.
It's not just "dumb" dps either. Some level of blame belongs to tanks and healers, and I've seen some horrible, horrible examples of both lately. Of course, you can't correct them either because that's just blasphemy. 
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Liquid741
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dont forget the Rogues Sap! had to get that in there for some of my class love.
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Liquid741
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oh and we dont need a CC class...we need a monk class, like the ones in SM. /kicktoface!
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Cawlin
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We don't need a CC class, we need classes to use their abilities.
I chain trapped as a hunter back when you had to be out of combat to place a trap. That meant that you had to place your trap well before the pull to get the cooldown rolling on it. It meant firing a high damage or distracting shot at your target mob to bring it to your trap (which had to be placed near your character - no flying ice traps back then). It also meant feigning death as your trap cooldown came up to drop combat and lay another trap, then as your mob got out of the trap, firing a distracting shot (which wasn't a taunt back then but merely a "high threat, zero damage attack") to keep the trapped mob from beelining the healer who would be the only one with any other passive aggro on that mob. Hopefully if you had your initial trap laid long enough before combat, with talents and/or set bonuses you could keep a mob trapped indefinitely that way, provided you didn't get a resist on your FD or your trap.
Chain trapping as a hunter now is not quite as difficult because you don't have to be out of combat to place a trap. It still involves several global cooldowns and impacts our DPS in a perfect situation by at least 5%, usually more on the order of 15 to 25% as we have to manage mobs that want to run around our traps.
*edit* and as I read about the way dungeons are working I am looking forward once again to speccing my hunter for 5-man proficiency with trap talents and the like. It will be much fun returning to this playstyle for me.
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chaddlock
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Seems like there are dome DPS classes out there now with very powerfull CCs. Types of CC include Charm, Daze, Fear, Root, Sleep, Slow, Snare, Incapacitate, Disorient and Stun. Crowd Control Abilities can be re-applied an unlimited number of times, and take a mob effectively out of combat as long as the CCer wants to:
* Mage - Polymorph (beasts, critters and humanoids only)
* Hunter - Freezing Trap (most types of mob, requires good skill to chain trap), Wyvern Sting (talent ability)
* Warlock - Banish (demons/elementals), Enslave Demon (demons only), Seduction (Pet ability, Humanoids only)
* Priest - Shackle Undead (undead only)
* Druid - Hibernate (beasts and dragonkin only), Entangling Roots (Usable indoor since Patch 3.0.2)
* Paladin - Repentance (humanoids, undead, dragonkin, giants and demons only)
* Shaman - Hex WotLK (humanoids and beasts only)
These Secondary CC Abilities can control a mob for some time, but either break easily, need frequent reapplication or have other restrictions which make their continued use impractical, and therefore cannot be generally used to take a mob out of combat indefinitely:
* Death Knight - Chains of Ice
* Druid - Cyclone, Soothe Animal, and some stuns
* Hunter - Pet's stun and various root/slow/stun shots
* Mage - Frost Nova and other frost spells
* Paladin - Turn Evil (undead and demons only), some stuns
* Priest - Mind Control (humanoids only), Psychic Scream, Mind Soothe
* Rogue - Sap (humanoids only rank 1-3, Humanoids, Beasts, Demons and Dragonkin rank 4, cannot be applied in combat), Blind, and various stuns and stun-lock tactics
* Warlock - Fear
* Warrior - various stuns
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Auenwing
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kyrv posted:
Auenwing posted:
And I know I'm not the only one.
/high fives the VN board
You are not the only one.
Several people here (not me) did predict massive complaints on the 'new' CC stuff and that Blizz would cave. Will be interesting to follow this.
Yup. As folks here posted, it's not a dedicated class we need, we need the classes that have it to use it, and the list of those is longer now than before. Spreading CC across multiple classes is the model that supposedly leads to better balance in PvP (if you're going to have it all), and doesn't create the "bring the class" issue in PvE we saw during Vanilla.
Will be interesting to see if Blizz spread the type of CC needed across mob types or if there is a need for "specific" type CC for different instances...which will lead to "best practice" group combos again.
-heads for coffee
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Cawlin
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Auenwing posted:
kyrv posted:
Auenwing posted:
And I know I'm not the only one.
/high fives the VN board
You are not the only one.
Several people here (not me) did predict massive complaints on the 'new' CC stuff and that Blizz would cave. Will be interesting to follow this.
Yup. As folks here posted, it's not a dedicated class we need, we need the classes that have it to use it, and the list of those is longer now than before. Spreading CC across multiple classes is the model that supposedly leads to better balance in PvP (if you're going to have it all), and doesn't create the "bring the class" issue in PvE we saw during Vanilla.
Will be interesting to see if Blizz spread the type of CC needed across mob types or if there is a need for "specific" type CC for different instances...which will lead to "best practice" group combos again.
-heads for coffee
This is a good and valid point. If Blizzard were really serious about "bring the player not the class", then things like banish, shackle, polymorph, sap, etc. would not have limitations on mob type (at least in PvE).
Of course that messes with arena stuff, but I couldn't give a rat's ass about arena anyway.
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GrimTempest
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i like it and i hope they keep at it. people will learn to play eventually and it will be good for the game overall to force people out of the steamroller mindset.
the way wow is set up though i'm not sure a CC spec/class would fit in very well. i think they've given us all the CC we need. don't get me wrong i'd love it if wow had elements of ffxi where classes like a bard were highly desired but i don't think its going to happen.
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Malachi256
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So who here played an Enchanter in EQ and misses it?
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Ashmaele
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I ran another dungeon in Outland last night. Same thing as before, "Go Go Go!" no CC, half the group didn't even know what CC was. I was trying to show restraint with my pulls and got constant whining in response.
They're in for a rude awakening...
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Cryme
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Polymorph FTW.
Love my mage. Easily my favorite class so far.
EDIT: I voted no, because I don't think the future is dedicated CC classes, I think it's classes that already have CC need to learn to use them effectively again.
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--Syrus--
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CC looks great on paper.. in practice.. ?
Personally I am for it, just not sure if most of the player base can handle it.
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Phexx
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CC is great for PvE, adds tactics into an encounter instead of just clusterf$&% killing.
PvP is a different story. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY likes to stand there and watch thier toon die because they can't fight back or run etc.
Since WOW is a PvE game and PvP is silly in WoW, I say bring on the CC.
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GutterSludge
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Ashmaele posted:
I ran another dungeon in Outland last night. Same thing as before, "Go Go Go!" no CC, half the group didn't even know what CC was. I was trying to show restraint with my pulls and got constant whining in response.
They're in for a rude awakening...
Outland dungeons today are not what they were when they were released. Classes work completely differently than they did when BC came out. I have run them all on my warrior recently (as tank),(and a cupple runs through ramps with the gnome dk I made) and can keep aggro in all of them with very little issue.
Add to that, if your group is in heirlooms, it takes some pretty drastic crap to even have one person die, let alone wipe.
CC is not required in Outland 5 mans as they exist today.
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TinMan52
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Liquid741 posted:
dont forget the Rogues Sap! had to get that in there for some of my class love.
People still used that after BRD and BRS? I thought that was taboo like expecting hunters to know how to chain trap.
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pattongb
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Well lets face it, a CC Class is coming.
Not necessarily because we need it (as stated there are plenty of abilities already out there), but because there is no way Blizzard does another expansion without adding a new class or 2.
Its tough to do I know, but it has to be done. We have been stuck with the same classes for way to many years. Adding DK's was just a morsel to try to pacify us on the issue.
I know all the arguments:
Too many classes causes balance problems...
Other games with more classes just have cookie cutter classes with different names..
Etc etc.
But I think Blizzard knows that the for the long term health of the game (subscription wise), new classes are going to have to be added.
Say what you want about Cata's sales success, it will be the next 11 months of subscription levels that determine how big of a success it really is.
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IndridCole
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As a tank I cannot wait to run these dungeons.
Either we're in for slow instances or Charlie Foxtrots.
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Blisteringballs
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In my opinion they should design 5-man encounters, normal and heroic, that make CC optional but very beneficial. It would merely speed things up for parties with appropriate level and gear, but make fights much easier for parties that are still leveling and gearing up. Maybe have one instance where it's an absolute requirement, to introduce new (or WotLK only players) the basics of CC.
Once you hit 10-man or greater raiding, sure, make CC more of a requirement for trash and boss fights.
I just feel like Blizzard is needlessly affecting the quality of the experience for casual players, and it's going to hurt more than help.
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Ansithe
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I love CC. I love orderin people what to cc. Okay you. sheep this. You sap this. Oh you don't wanna cc do you? VOTE KICK!
Ahhhhhh I love it. And healers love me for it.
For some reason the morons are the dk's who always go 'just get them all' *rolls eyes*' in heroic.
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sarnsereg
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The problem blizzard has created is certain classes were designed to do certain things. classes like the mage and warlock were your CC classes. They have since added a CC to most clsases, but not all.
and what's the trade off for a class that is main spec CC? do they not do as much damage? are they completely useless as as any other spec? let's take mage and say they give them a CC spec. will they be kicked out of a lot of groups if they're not CC spec?
and really, it's not needed. in terms of dungeons so long as you have 2 people with CC you should be fine.. and you have 3 dps slots that can fill that spot. 3 dps slots to give you sheep, sleep, hex, shackle, repentance, sap, fear, banish, etc. etc. etc.
They DO however need to relook at which dps they are putting into a group. the absolute worst is when you get a group with a warrior/dk tank druid healer and then druid/dk/war as your dps because then you have no CC at all on most mobs.
that and the "difficulty" is more or less the fact people can't get the idea of CC through their heads. any and all heroics in Cata are simplified and so easy it's laughable when you have 2 CC's. I healed heroic vortex pinnacle last night in apug that had a shaman and a lock as dps/cc for us.... do you know how easy that instance is? I went oom 2 times. once when we pulled 2 groups by mistake and the tank got knocked off the ledge and the other time on the dragon boss because i spammed heals for no reason other than to spam heals.. i didn't need to. otherwise i hardly needed to heal at all. on the other hand, if we'd had no cc on elementals i don't know that i could have healed it.
the bigger issue is no CC = next to impossible and with CC = a walk in the park.
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Cawlin
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If there was a class designed to be a "CC Class" it would be the hunter and the spec would be Survival.
Ice Trap
Range Snare (concussive shot)
Melee Snare (wing clip)
Scatter Shot
Wyvern Sting
AOE Snare Trap
And talents or glyphs (or both) to augment the effectiveness of all of them, the hunter SHOULD be the "CC King".
However, making use of all that CC for a hunter requires a significant number of abilities, talents, and glyphs, and seriously impacts DPS.
The sad thing is that mages are better at CC with one spell that needs no augmentation via talents OR glyphs - polymorph. Add in Frost Nova and Frost Snares and you find the mage is REALLY the CC king. Further the mage accomplishes it with far fewer abilities, talents, and glyphs devoted to it and does so with a much smaller impact on their DPS.
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Arcilite_I
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Phexx posted:
CC is great for PvE, adds tactics into an encounter instead of just clusterf$&% killing.
PvP is a different story. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY likes to stand there and watch thier toon die because they can't fight back or run etc.
Since WOW is a PvE game and PvP is silly in WoW, I say bring on the CC.
lol, wtf, have you even played WoW?
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Ayadread
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I love the new dungeon difficulty. That said, I've sworn off pugging. Last time I tried I ended up with a hunter who had never laid an ice trap, didn't know what distracting shot was, and we won't even get into the trap launcher. Same run, a dk who didn't know you shouldn't stand in the big purple puddles of pure win.
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