slythetove posted:

---

Classic WoW and Burning Crusade - CC was required, and when it wasn't there the penalty was death. It was swift. It was so fast nobody (ok almost nobody) turned and blamed the healer immediately. The reason is because it was so obvious to them that everything was wrong from the beginning because they were immediately DEAD.

Wrath - Players learned to forget. They forgot CC, they forgot kill order, they forgot focus fire, and then ... well some just never knew these concepts at all.

In Cataclysm - The pull now requires CC, but they don't always know it. The pull happens, and I can tell you immediately we're going to die, because healers know the healing model does not allow them to output enough heals to keep the party alive with the damage that is coming; HOWEVER, the key difference is the tank and DPS do not recognize this! Since they live for sometimes 15 to 45 seconds they have time to watch their health slowly go down. They don't realize the healer is doing everything they can to save them because their bars never go up. They believe they've actually done their jobs, and died anyway.

Thus, they rage at the healer.

This is the current model. This is not good. This is not fun for a healer to have to explain CC and focus fire, and kill orders to people who don't to listen, and who don't understand why the healer is explaining it. Worst of all are the many times you get yelled at for trying to explain. They don't believe you. They just blame you.

This dawned on me last night when, after days of fighting uphill to heal and change, and adapt, and still not having any fun. It came to me after I did not even log in to play, because it's so not fun.

--Sly

---

Cawlin posted:

---

Seriously, this model will make everyone a better player.

---

Wrath - Players learned to forget. They forgot CC, they forgot kill order, they forgot focus fire, and then ... well some just never knew these concepts at all. posted:

---

---

siujoey posted:

---

Cawlin posted:

---

Seriously, this model will make everyone a better player.

---

Yes, but who cares? I don't care at all whether I am "good" or not. Somehow, I care even less if other people think I am "good" or not. I play WoW for fun. And right now, healing is just not fun.

I don't pay the subscription fee on my accounts for Blizz to "make me a better player". I pay them to entertain me. I like the use of CC again, and I like that people will have to use some strategy besides roflstomping their way through instances. Having said that..... healing is currently not fun.

---

Sociop posted:

---

Wrath - Players learned to forget. They forgot CC, they forgot kill order, they forgot focus fire, and then ... well some just never knew these concepts at all. posted:

---

---

Only if they never raided, even the Heroic ICC 5-mans required it to an extent.

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siujoey posted:

---

Cawlin posted:

---

Seriously, this model will make everyone a better player.

---

Yes, but who cares? I don't care at all whether I am "good" or not. Somehow, I care even less if other people think I am "good" or not. I play WoW for fun. And right now, healing is just not fun.

I don't pay the subscription fee on my accounts for Blizz to "make me a better player". I pay them to entertain me. I like the use of CC again, and I like that people will have to use some strategy besides roflstomping their way through instances. Having said that..... healing is currently not fun.

---

Demorak posted:

---

Sociop posted:

---

Wrath - Players learned to forget. They forgot CC, they forgot kill order, they forgot focus fire, and then ... well some just never knew these concepts at all. posted:

---

---

Only if they never raided, even the Heroic ICC 5-mans required it to an extent.

---

I've never seen CC used in there.

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Demorak posted:

---

Sociop posted:

---

Wrath - Players learned to forget. They forgot CC, they forgot kill order, they forgot focus fire, and then ... well some just never knew these concepts at all. posted:

---

---

Only if they never raided, even the Heroic ICC 5-mans required it to an extent.

---

I've never seen CC used in there.

---

Cawlin posted:

---

slythetove posted:

---

Classic WoW and Burning Crusade - CC was required, and when it wasn't there the penalty was death. It was swift. It was so fast nobody (ok almost nobody) turned and blamed the healer immediately. The reason is because it was so obvious to them that everything was wrong from the beginning because they were immediately DEAD.

Wrath - Players learned to forget. They forgot CC, they forgot kill order, they forgot focus fire, and then ... well some just never knew these concepts at all.

In Cataclysm - The pull now requires CC, but they don't always know it. The pull happens, and I can tell you immediately we're going to die, because healers know the healing model does not allow them to output enough heals to keep the party alive with the damage that is coming; HOWEVER, the key difference is the tank and DPS do not recognize this! Since they live for sometimes 15 to 45 seconds they have time to watch their health slowly go down. They don't realize the healer is doing everything they can to save them because their bars never go up. They believe they've actually done their jobs, and died anyway.

Thus, they rage at the healer.

This is the current model. This is not good. This is not fun for a healer to have to explain CC and focus fire, and kill orders to people who don't to listen, and who don't understand why the healer is explaining it. Worst of all are the many times you get yelled at for trying to explain. They don't believe you. They just blame you.

This dawned on me last night when, after days of fighting uphill to heal and change, and adapt, and still not having any fun. It came to me after I did not even log in to play, because it's so not fun.

--Sly

---

I've only skimmed what you posted but from what I gather, I agree wholeheartedly.

Healers are probably *decent* (as opposed to "fine"), it's the players who are freaking out over having to L2P again.

Honestly in my opinion, it's a good model. Unfortunately the healers will have to bear the brunt of it because of WOTLK habits that have to be unlearned, but otherwise it's a good model. Eventually people will L2P if only by virtue of the fact that healers will be even more scarce than tanks.

Stiff upper lip and all that Sly. Get some regular friends or guildies and run with them. CC EVERYTHING and gradually reduce CC until you find the point at which you can no longer heal the damage coming in. Seriously, this model will make everyone a better player.

---

GutterSludge posted:

---

Wouldn't marking targets for cc be easier than wiping and then explaining it later?

I tank, so I have these marks already hotkeyed, ctrl 1-4..and anyone can mark targets.


Make a macro that states all of this, that you spam when you enter the dungeon.

/macro

/say "If you are not going to CC, and stand in the fire, Do not blame your healer"...or something.

---

Cawlin posted:

---

What exactly do you find not fun about healing? Is it not fun that people die because they pull aggro? Is it not fun because the tank dies because people don't CC or the tank pulls too much? What SPECIFICALLY makes it not fun for you? (That's an honest question btw, I am not hiding a "gotcha" in there other than what I typed already.)

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Cawlin posted:

---

What exactly do you find not fun about healing? Is it not fun that people die because they pull aggro? Is it not fun because the tank dies because people don't CC or the tank pulls too much? What SPECIFICALLY makes it not fun for you? (That's an honest question btw, I am not hiding a "gotcha" in there other than what I typed already.)

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slythetove posted:

---

Reason Healers are taking the pain of Cataclysm

---

_Kewk_ posted:

---

slythetove posted:

---

Reason Healers are taking the pain of Cataclysm

---

It's no big secret. Everyone is aware of the reasons. In fact we all knew before the expansion came out. Redundant is redundant.

---

slythetove posted:

---

GutterSludge posted:

---

Wouldn't marking targets for cc be easier than wiping and then explaining it later?

I tank, so I have these marks already hotkeyed, ctrl 1-4..and anyone can mark targets.


Make a macro that states all of this, that you spam when you enter the dungeon.

/macro

/say "If you are not going to CC, and stand in the fire, Do not blame your healer"...or something.

---

Another great theory. If you don't think I've had marks on hotkeys since the ability was introduced years ago... well I do.

You can make a macro to state it, you can mark them, and I've done all that. The issue is I can't MAKE them listen or do what is required, and the way the gameplay is right now - they have no instant feedback DEATH to snap them to and make them listen. Instead as I said, they slowly die, they figure it's the healer who sucks (and the guy that keeps talking trying to tell them how to play instead of lololsmash in silence), and they blame the healer.

--Sly

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GutterSludge posted:

---

Wouldn't marking targets for cc be easier than wiping and then explaining it later?

I tank, so I have these marks already hotkeyed, ctrl 1-4..and anyone can mark targets.


Make a macro that states all of this, that you spam when you enter the dungeon.

/macro

/say "If you are not going to CC, and stand in the fire, Do not blame your healer"...or something.

---

Cawlin posted:

---

Demorak posted:

---

Sociop posted:

---

[quote=Cawlin]
[quote=Wrath - Players learned to forget. They forgot CC, they forgot kill order, they forgot focus fire, and then ... well some just never knew these concepts at all.]

---

Only if they never raided, even the Heroic ICC 5-mans required it to an extent.

---

I've never seen CC used in there.

---

slythetove posted:

---

_Kewk_ posted:

---

slythetove posted:

---

Reason Healers are taking the pain of Cataclysm

---

It's no big secret. Everyone is aware of the reasons. In fact we all knew before the expansion came out. Redundant is redundant.

---

I'm sorry, was everyone that plays WoW in the beta? I realize that beta players knew it. I even realize now that beta players have been telling Blizzard about it. I wasn't a beta player. Most players weren't beta players. I'm sorry if I've offended you buy trying to understand and help others understand the problem with healing in WoW Cataclysm.

--Sly

---

Sociop posted:

---

Cawlin posted:

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With undergeared characters, CC was a huge benefit to HoReflection for instance. I guess you just never ran them with anything but an overgeared group...

---

Come to think of it players had/have a lot of trouble with HoR particularly the first part and even today will leave if they get it via a random because of the wipe fest it can be, this should have been a big fat sign for Blizz not continue down that path.

---

siujoey posted:

---

Cawlin posted:

---

Seriously, this model will make everyone a better player.

---

Yes, but who cares? I don't care at all whether I am "good" or not. Somehow, I care even less if other people think I am "good" or not. I play WoW for fun. And right now, healing is just not fun.

I don't pay the subscription fee on my accounts for Blizz to "make me a better player". I pay them to entertain me. I like the use of CC again, and I like that people will have to use some strategy besides roflstomping their way through instances. Having said that..... healing is currently not fun.

---

GutterSludge posted:

---

I think this thread is a prime example of the people/players that at least try to stay informed, and the masses that never check a board, forum, or any other site related to WOW.


I know we give each other a real hard time about a lot of different issues, playstyles, and general game attitude, but I can say without a doubt I would prefer anyone who posts and/or at least reads these boards in my group over just about anyone else.

We have known these changes were coming, discussed (and are still discussing) them, and at least attempt to adapt to them as time goes by.


What we (Sly for example) are running in to is the players that never do any of the above, who honestly do not have a clue as to what is going on.


Sly, this isn't your fault. You are just 4 steps ahead of the average mouth breather...and it is going to take some time for them to catch up.

---

chaddlock posted:

---

siujoey posted:

---

Cawlin posted:

---

Seriously, this model will make everyone a better player.

---

Yes, but who cares? I don't care at all whether I am "good" or not. Somehow, I care even less if other people think I am "good" or not. I play WoW for fun. And right now, healing is just not fun.

I don't pay the subscription fee on my accounts for Blizz to "make me a better player". I pay them to entertain me. I like the use of CC again, and I like that people will have to use some strategy besides roflstomping their way through instances. Having said that..... healing is currently not fun.

---

IDK I take pride in my playstyle. I went back to tanking in Cataclysm because there was some challenge to it again. You don't find the challenge and conquer to be fun? A big reason that healers are not having fun right now is if you are running with dumb DPS. If the DPS are trying to play as if they are in WOLTK then yes you may be going OOM fast, spamming heals on everyone who is taking avoidable damage.

---

GutterSludge posted:

---

I think this thread is a prime example of the people/players that at least try to stay informed, and the masses that never check a board, forum, or any other site related to WOW.


I know we give each other a real hard time about a lot of different issues, playstyles, and general game attitude, but I can say without a doubt I would prefer anyone who posts and/or at least reads these boards in my group over just about anyone else.

We have known these changes were coming, discussed (and are still discussing) them, and at least attempt to adapt to them as time goes by.


What we (Sly for example) are running in to is the players that never do any of the above, who honestly do not have a clue as to what is going on.


Sly, this isn't your fault. You are just 4 steps ahead of the average mouth breather...and it is going to take some time for them to catch up.

---

slythetove posted:

---

It's beyond frustrating to try to help folks, then have them ignore you and yell at you when they die.

---

GutterSludge posted:

---

I think this thread is a prime example of the people/players that at least try to stay informed, and the masses that never check a board, forum, or any other site related to WOW.


I know we give each other a real hard time about a lot of different issues, playstyles, and general game attitude, but I can say without a doubt I would prefer anyone who posts and/or at least reads these boards in my group over just about anyone else.

We have known these changes were coming, discussed (and are still discussing) them, and at least attempt to adapt to them as time goes by.


What we (Sly for example) are running in to is the players that never do any of the above, who honestly do not have a clue as to what is going on.


Sly, this isn't your fault. You are just 4 steps ahead of the average mouth breather...and it is going to take some time for them to catch up.

---

Cawlin posted:

---

slythetove posted:

---

It's beyond frustrating to try to help folks, then have them ignore you and yell at you when they die.

---

Heh. Here you've re-discovered why many of the so-called "elitist pricks" don't PuG or why they join "choosy" guilds, and generally don't spend time playing with MOST of the wow playing community outside of their guild.

---

GutterSludge posted:

---

I know we give each other a real hard time about a lot of different issues, playstyles, and general game attitude, but I can say without a doubt I would prefer anyone who posts and/or at least reads these boards in my group over just about anyone else.

---

slythetove posted:

---

Cawlin posted:

---

slythetove posted:

---

Classic WoW and Burning Crusade - CC was required, and when it wasn't there the penalty was death. It was swift. It was so fast nobody (ok almost nobody) turned and blamed the healer immediately. The reason is because it was so obvious to them that everything was wrong from the beginning because they were immediately DEAD.

Wrath - Players learned to forget. They forgot CC, they forgot kill order, they forgot focus fire, and then ... well some just never knew these concepts at all.

In Cataclysm - The pull now requires CC, but they don't always know it. The pull happens, and I can tell you immediately we're going to die, because healers know the healing model does not allow them to output enough heals to keep the party alive with the damage that is coming; HOWEVER, the key difference is the tank and DPS do not recognize this! Since they live for sometimes 15 to 45 seconds they have time to watch their health slowly go down. They don't realize the healer is doing everything they can to save them because their bars never go up. They believe they've actually done their jobs, and died anyway.

Thus, they rage at the healer.

This is the current model. This is not good. This is not fun for a healer to have to explain CC and focus fire, and kill orders to people who don't to listen, and who don't understand why the healer is explaining it. Worst of all are the many times you get yelled at for trying to explain. They don't believe you. They just blame you.

This dawned on me last night when, after days of fighting uphill to heal and change, and adapt, and still not having any fun. It came to me after I did not even log in to play, because it's so not fun.

--Sly

---

I've only skimmed what you posted but from what I gather, I agree wholeheartedly.

Healers are probably *decent* (as opposed to "fine"), it's the players who are freaking out over having to L2P again.

Honestly in my opinion, it's a good model. Unfortunately the healers will have to bear the brunt of it because of WOTLK habits that have to be unlearned, but otherwise it's a good model. Eventually people will L2P if only by virtue of the fact that healers will be even more scarce than tanks.

Stiff upper lip and all that Sly. Get some regular friends or guildies and run with them. CC EVERYTHING and gradually reduce CC until you find the point at which you can no longer heal the damage coming in. Seriously, this model will make everyone a better player.

---

I want to agree, I do. I was excited for the theoretical model. In practice it's not working out to the stated goal as currently implemented. The issue is healing throughput is reduced dramatically (as a function of health vs incoming damage) and healers are constricted to casting 95% or more of the time their single "efficient" healing spell. To do otherwise is to drain your mana bar in under 6 casts. It's very boring and un-fulfilling. Never before have I had less choice in what to do. The priest spell Heal takes 2.2 seconds to cast and does a trivial amount of healing per cast compared to health pools. This means you just have to spam cast it. If you vary from this spell for more than a couple of global cooldowns you are punished severely ie wipes / deaths. Incoming tank damage alone is tuned right now to require nearly constant casting of this spell on the tank (after setting up your renew and getting into your chakra), and if the DPS doesn't do their job you can't save them most of the time because the tank will die if you get 2 GCDs behind.

Healing has gotten even less dynamic and even more monotonous. The theoretical model was "we want healers to make choices", but the actual implementation is "healers have no choice except to cast this one spell 95% of the time or wipe".

In PvE mana efficiency tuning will probably allow things to work, but they may or may not be fun (it remains to be seen). In PvP mana efficiency tuning doesn't solve the problem of "I have no choice but to stand here casting long spells that any monkey with an IQ over 37 can interrupt."

With "we want pvp to last longer" philosophy which I am all for, what they actually did was make healing less effective and made damage higher. This theoretical actually just worked out to "PvP is somewhat longer, but the outcome was already decided before you started if you're a healing priest - and that outcome is you lose, but it took a little longer".

I've seen some hotfixes going in already for priests, and I'm going to check them out tonight.

--Sly

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hopkjam posted:

---

I have to disagree, healing has a choice now. It's not .... everyones going to live while I spam aoe heals or tab renew anymore. The choice is simple and very clear. Let the dps who are messing up die and keep the good ones alive, try to heal everyone and expand too much mana, or don't. I'm a firm believer that there shouldn't always be a guarantee that all party members survive a fight. Sometimes death is an acceptable means if it means you save that extra 20% mana for the tank. That's the way it was done before wrath and I didn't see any problem with it. If people are going to keep blaming the healer... just stop healing that dps thats being dumb on a normal pull. When he/she and only he/she dies a few times they'll realize how hard stuff is hitting and hopefully start taking steps to avoid the bad juju.

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GutterSludge posted:

---

After a few runs, I would have to cordially decline your guild invite.

---

siujoey posted:

---

Cawlin posted:

---

Seriously, this model will make everyone a better player.

---

Yes, but who cares? I don't care at all whether I am "good" or not. Somehow, I care even less if other people think I am "good" or not. I play WoW for fun. And right now, healing is just not fun.

I don't pay the subscription fee on my accounts for Blizz to "make me a better player". I pay them to entertain me. I like the use of CC again, and I like that people will have to use some strategy besides roflstomping their way through instances. Having said that..... healing is currently not fun.

---

hopkjam posted:

---

I can share some sympathy for healers, I used to heal a little in wrath and am a tiny bit scared to heal in cata. It's true players have learned that dps is all that matters. In cata, its dps avoidance or lack of taking damage that is the more impressive stat. I have to agree though with the severe punishment to healers. It may not be fun but it makes healers earn their kudos as well. It's bad groups that always instinctively blame healers though or ones that forgot about their cc's.

In pve healers in wrath could easily outheal any and almost all heroic damage. This made heroics easy, tedious, and boring. Now that healers have to work the upside is cc becomes useful again. I don't believe I used a single Sap on my main rogue throughout the entirety of wrath in pve content. It also makes healer stats actually have to focus on mana regen. I'm sorry I was literally sick of seeing healers in wrath pull off 8-10k hps heals and not seeing their mana flinch.

The biggest reason I applaud this change is the fact that healers in pvp were godly. A healer and a tank took at least a party of 5 if not more. THAT IS NOT BALANCE. Not only that, but the fact healers alone could simply not learn how to die. Countless efforts on various toons with decent to good pvp/dps gear unloading all rage/energy on healers just to end up with the fight having them at 100% health and 99% mana. That's more than a little disgusting. The old way resilience aided people made healers even a worse terror on the bg. Let's help healers by reducing damage and at the same time kill off the dps's crit chance but not a healers(albeit perhaps pathetic). Of course I have a similar complaint with all mana users but at least the effects of a bar of rage/energy can be seen. I'm sorry but a geared person unloading a very slow small and limited resource(rage/energy) should at the very least make a dent in the person using a very sizeable resource bar if not in health than at least in mana.

Thanks to cataclysm healers are killable again and so are the targets they so desperately defend. In wrath battlegrounds were not won at all by the quality of dps but the domination of your healing classes. NO MORE!

---

pattongb posted:

---

siujoey posted:

---

Cawlin posted:

---

Seriously, this model will make everyone a better player.

---

Yes, but who cares? I don't care at all whether I am "good" or not. Somehow, I care even less if other people think I am "good" or not. I play WoW for fun. And right now, healing is just not fun.

I don't pay the subscription fee on my accounts for Blizz to "make me a better player". I pay them to entertain me. I like the use of CC again, and I like that people will have to use some strategy besides roflstomping their way through instances. Having said that..... healing is currently not fun.

---

^^ Noone is forcing you to play a Healer. Im sure you could have plenty of fun being a Rogue, Warlock, Mage or Hunter.

Try one of those and leave the healing to those of us who want it to be somewhat skillfull so we can take pride in it.

Thanks.

---

pattongb posted:

---

hopkjam posted:

---

I can share some sympathy for healers, I used to heal a little in wrath and am a tiny bit scared to heal in cata. It's true players have learned that dps is all that matters. In cata, its dps avoidance or lack of taking damage that is the more impressive stat. I have to agree though with the severe punishment to healers. It may not be fun but it makes healers earn their kudos as well. It's bad groups that always instinctively blame healers though or ones that forgot about their cc's.

In pve healers in wrath could easily outheal any and almost all heroic damage. This made heroics easy, tedious, and boring. Now that healers have to work the upside is cc becomes useful again. I don't believe I used a single Sap on my main rogue throughout the entirety of wrath in pve content. It also makes healer stats actually have to focus on mana regen. I'm sorry I was literally sick of seeing healers in wrath pull off 8-10k hps heals and not seeing their mana flinch.

The biggest reason I applaud this change is the fact that healers in pvp were godly. A healer and a tank took at least a party of 5 if not more. THAT IS NOT BALANCE. Not only that, but the fact healers alone could simply not learn how to die. Countless efforts on various toons with decent to good pvp/dps gear unloading all rage/energy on healers just to end up with the fight having them at 100% health and 99% mana. That's more than a little disgusting. The old way resilience aided people made healers even a worse terror on the bg. Let's help healers by reducing damage and at the same time kill off the dps's crit chance but not a healers(albeit perhaps pathetic). Of course I have a similar complaint with all mana users but at least the effects of a bar of rage/energy can be seen. I'm sorry but a geared person unloading a very slow small and limited resource(rage/energy) should at the very least make a dent in the person using a very sizeable resource bar if not in health than at least in mana.

Thanks to cataclysm healers are killable again and so are the targets they so desperately defend. In wrath battlegrounds were not won at all by the quality of dps but the domination of your healing classes. NO MORE!

---

^^ Excellent post. Absoltuely said everything I wanted to say.

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GutterSludge posted:

---

Wouldn't marking targets for cc be easier than wiping and then explaining it later?

I tank, so I have these marks already hotkeyed, ctrl 1-4..and anyone can mark targets.


Make a macro that states all of this, that you spam when you enter the dungeon.

/macro

/say "If you are not going to CC, and stand in the fire, Do not blame your healer"...or something.

---

siujoey posted:

---

Cawlin posted:

---

Seriously, this model will make everyone a better player.

---

Yes, but who cares? I don't care at all whether I am "good" or not. Somehow, I care even less if other people think I am "good" or not. I play WoW for fun. And right now, healing is just not fun.

I don't pay the subscription fee on my accounts for Blizz to "make me a better player". I pay them to entertain me. I like the use of CC again, and I like that people will have to use some strategy besides roflstomping their way through instances. Having said that..... healing is currently not fun.

---

slythetove posted:

---

For me:

The not fun is everyone else's character got stronger as they leveled and at 85 mine got weaker. I have no ability to be a difference maker by being a good player. I have only the ability to cast exactly what Blizzard wants me to (1 spell 95% of the time) or die. Couple that with the long cast time of the 1 spell and it is extremely uninspiring to play. It's so boring. There are no choices, and the only way that mostly works is horribly slow and tedious to play.

I heard someone describe it as "being a manual Renew" and that's exactly what it feels like. If I don't cast heal the "ticks" don't happen. My job is to cast Heal every 2.2 seconds so my heal can "tick". Boring.

--Sly

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slythetove posted:

---

_Kewk_ posted:

---

slythetove posted:

---

Reason Healers are taking the pain of Cataclysm

---

It's no big secret. Everyone is aware of the reasons. In fact we all knew before the expansion came out. Redundant is redundant.

---

I'm sorry, was everyone that plays WoW in the beta? I realize that beta players knew it. I even realize now that beta players have been telling Blizzard about it. I wasn't a beta player. Most players weren't beta players. I'm sorry if I've offended you buy trying to understand and help others understand the problem with healing in WoW Cataclysm.

--Sly

---

Ferrydust posted:

---

pattongb posted:

---

siujoey posted:

---

[quote=Cawlin] Seriously, this model will make everyone a better player.

---

Yes, but who cares? I don't care at all whether I am "good" or not. Somehow, I care even less if other people think I am "good" or not. I play WoW for fun. And right now, healing is just not fun.

I don't pay the subscription fee on my accounts for Blizz to "make me a better player". I pay them to entertain me. I like the use of CC again, and I like that people will have to use some strategy besides roflstomping their way through instances. Having said that..... healing is currently not fun.

---

^^ Noone is forcing you to play a Healer. Im sure you could have plenty of fun being a Rogue, Warlock, Mage or Hunter.

Try one of those and leave the healing to those of us who want it to be somewhat skillfull so we can take pride in it.

Thanks.

---

slythetove posted:

---

hopkjam posted:

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I have to disagree, healing has a choice now. It's not .... everyones going to live while I spam aoe heals or tab renew anymore. The choice is simple and very clear. Let the dps who are messing up die and keep the good ones alive, try to heal everyone and expand too much mana, or don't. I'm a firm believer that there shouldn't always be a guarantee that all party members survive a fight. Sometimes death is an acceptable means if it means you save that extra 20% mana for the tank. That's the way it was done before wrath and I didn't see any problem with it. If people are going to keep blaming the healer... just stop healing that dps thats being dumb on a normal pull. When he/she and only he/she dies a few times they'll realize how hard stuff is hitting and hopefully start taking steps to avoid the bad juju.

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You missed my point. I have no choice in what to cast. It's boring.

--Sly

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siujoey posted:

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GutterSludge posted:

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After a few runs, I would have to cordially decline your guild invite.

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This one cracked me up.

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Bremen_Gaheris posted:

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I realize also that if the DPS learned to play and the tank was excellent the problem would be lessened. But that means you have to stop using the Dungeon Finder and frankly that is the best feature they have added to this game since release. Now it is useless if you want to play a healer class due to getting abused by other randomers.

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Cryme posted:

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I love this thread, even if for no other reason than exposing me to the term "mouth-breather."

I find it both potently descriptive and hilarious.

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Cawlin posted:

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Cryme posted:

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I love this thread, even if for no other reason than exposing me to the term "mouth-breather."

I find it both potently descriptive and hilarious.

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Welcome to the internet brah!




(In case you don't realize it, I'm just attempting to good-naturedly bust your chops with the above remark.)

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Cryme posted:

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Cawlin posted:

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Cryme posted:

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I love this thread, even if for no other reason than exposing me to the term "mouth-breather."

I find it both potently descriptive and hilarious.

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Welcome to the internet brah!




(In case you don't realize it, I'm just attempting to good-naturedly bust your chops with the above remark.)

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Oh we're good. I just hadn't come across that particular term before, and the image it projects is just so strikingly... accurate; I had to comment on it.

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Cawlin posted:

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LOL internet memes that have staying power do indeed have that characteristic of being strikingly accurate - as this one indeed does.

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slythetove posted:

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It's not any fun. Their whole Cataclysm concept for healing revolves around casing a 2.2+ second heal 90 to 95 percent of the time. The dynamic feel of WoW is gone.

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Zero_Washu posted:

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Edit: If you want a challenge then keep the challenge to the raids where the supposedly "elite" players congregate to compare dick sizes.

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